Anti India legislation in progress in US Congress now

[Vaagmi]

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Vaagmi ji,

You are truly gifted..you are the best candidate to be PM of India cos you are the perfect politician!LOL

BTW I am not wishing victimhood to continue..you very well know that even though you choose to write differently from what your mind really knows.

As I said you are the perfect politician.

Thanks for the...compliments? I can never become the PM of India because I am a poor Tamil Brahmin and now it is too late to marry a Parsi or an European to become acceptable as a secular, cosmopolitan, modern Indian. Politics would require that. If what SSwamy says can be trivialized because he is brahmin, same fate would befall whatever I say. LOL.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

When a topic like this is discussed the Point of View varies from person to person. I remember the time when India detonated its first nuclear bomb. Though almost all the Indians in India jumped with joy, it was not shared by all. Canada was the nation which was most cut up. A number of scientists spoke against it. I was surprised to see a number of people who suddenly discovered the greatness of ahimsa.

The answer was not far to seek. Most of them were worried about getting Visas. Many scientists were kicked out of projects abroad. They were banned from conferences.

A BJP government would also pose a number of problems for many people. The people of Kerala are always worried about the jobs and welfare of their children in Saudi Arabia and Gulf.

The NRIs in the U.S will not be able to counter the Anti_Indian propaganda. The biggest lobby is that of Saudi Arabia and they are against India and side with Pakistan. They are the main backers of Pakistan. Pakistan also has the Chinese behind it.

Again when it come to a choice between Islam and Hinduism, the West will choose Islam all the time. The Islamic nations are richer and more powerful.

We in India can afford to choose BJP.

But there can not be any consensus on this because many Indians abroad may find it convenient to acquiesce rather than oppose such anti-Indian moves. A question of survival like the Hindus of Kerala who dare not support BJP.

This is clearly indicated by the number of Tamilian intellectuals who are bothered about the so called genocide in Gujarat, but act like blind mice when it comes to the killing of Tamilians in Sri Lanka or the ethnic cleansing of Pundits in Kashmir.

 

[sarang]

There are indications that the indian lobby is stronger and more vocal now than ten years ago. A bjp government with nm as the head will force marked changes in the attitude and behaviour of american administration. US will have a tough task - in keeping islamic fundamentalism in check and halt its progress to saudi arabia and other princely countries as AQ has made its intentions to wipe out the kings loud and clear.

India must worry about its future and welfare and protect its borders. Modi will not go to US unless invited as president's guest. And this will happen, democrats or republicans.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Again the same old and stale issues. Brahmin only knows he is a Brahmin. Does Brahmins have any constitutional guarantee to be a Brahmin? No. When the Constitution is supreme why you are frightened of the word Brahmins? Because you still yearn to be a Brahmin? What if you become a Brahmins? I think those people should get a brain wash. Or they need an exorcist? The so called superiority of the Brahmins will be sustained by non-Brahmins. While this being so, today's 'Brahmins' do look heavenwards, not seeking the Lord's feet, but to become Ambanis, Chettiars and so on. If they succeed, they might still be blamed as "BRAHMINS'. Oh lord, if you can, because others think that you cannot and only the Brahmins can, life these people's spirit up!

 

[Vaagmi]

the time when India detonated its first nuclear bomb. Though almost all the Indians in India jumped with joy, it was not shared by all. Canada was the nation which was most cut up. A number of scientists spoke against it. I was surprised to see a number of people who suddenly discovered the greatness of ahimsa.

Canada thought India had used the plutonium it recovered from the Canada-India Nuclear reactor in Trombay, Bombay against the terms of collaboration So it was cut up. Despite Indian scientists not being allowed to participate in conferences, India did not lose anything much.

A BJP government would also pose a number of problems for many people. The people of Kerala are always worried about the jobs and welfare of their children in Saudi Arabia and Gulf.

Welfare has already been taken care of with the identification and deportation of illegal immigrants in SArabia. Those who are still there are people who are needed there. Moreover employment is not charity. Foreign policy is not based on such matters. For this reason if Indians were to choose a Government or a Pm we will have to choose only Muslim League as the party and perhaps Owaisi as the PM of the country.

The NRIs in the U.S will not be able to counter the Anti_Indian propaganda. The biggest lobby is that of Saudi Arabia and they are against India and side with Pakistan. They are the main backers of Pakistan. Pakistan also has the Chinese behind it.

India can counter any lobbying effort in US by spending money on a good lobbyist. It is just a business decision. Indians are not bad decision makers in business.

Again when it come to a choice between Islam and Hinduism, the West will choose Islam all the time. The Islamic nations are richer and more powerful.

Americans can never forget the towering infernos. India is a nuclear power which can not be pushed around. It is not a banana republic. The nuclear power ensures a certain minimum amount of respect and wariness.

I think Indians have to make a bold statement by giving BJP a preponderant majority and BJP has to become assertive with other powers of the world. As Mao said about China once, if it comes to nuclear holocaust India is vast enough to take a hit, survive and go for a second massive strike. This survivability has to be factored in in our dealings.

 

[Nara]

The title of this thread is at best misleading and at worst crass propaganda.

Before getting into the merits of this issue, please note, introducing a resolution is barely better than an overweight person thinking it is a good idea to lose some weight. These kinds of resolutions get introduced all the time, that is what these representatives are good at, busybodies lecturing the rest of the world. They never see the light of day even in a committee. By inflating the importance of it we all have to know about it now.

Coming to the merit, take a look at the text of the resolution here: Text - H.Res.417 - 113th Congress (2013-2014): Praising India's rich religious diversity and commitment to tolerance and equality, and reaffirming the need to protect the rights and freedoms of religious minorities. | Congress.gov | Library of Congre.

You see, the text is full of glowing praise of India. All the criticism is directed at NaMo and the forces that promote religious violence against minorities. So, a more apt title for this thread is "Anti-Modi legislation in progress in US Congress now", unless of course the assertion is India is Modi, Modi is India.

Also, take a quick look at this site Indian American Muslim Council. Read carefully and tell me what anti-Indian sentiment you see in the site. The subtext of all this outrage is Indian Muslims are disloyal. This is no way to promote human dignity, mutual respect and pluralism.

 

[sangom]

< edited >

I think Indians have to make a bold statement by giving BJP a preponderant majority and BJP has to become assertive with other powers of the world. As Mao said about China once, if it comes to nuclear holocaust India is vast enough to take a hit, survive and go for a second massive strike. This survivability has to be factored in in our dealings.

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

I sincerely feel that this so-called "Anti India legislation" has been the handiwork of the Congress Party in order to show the BJP in a bad light during the Lok Sabha elections.

My worry is that BJP will go to retrograde "hindutva" ideology if it gets a preponderant majority and even we people will come to feel the dominance of hindi, Bania and other such uncomfortable impositions throughout the country, because the BJP/RSS view of "Bharat mahaan" is purely a north-indian one. If BJP does not get absolute majority but becomes the biggest in a ruling coalition, it will be as much corrupt (if not more) as the UPA and may even cleverly stop scams coming out in the open because at the core, BJP (RSS) is a cadre-based party.

Thus India has very few choices for a clean, honest and effective government, imo.

 

[Nara]

The arguments put forward by Malhotra et al. are nothing new. People have been making them for a long time. Babasaheb Ambedkar demolished them all 80 years ago with historical data and precise and cutting logic in his Annihilation of Caste. MKG made a feeble attempt at a rebuttal, and BA hit these arguments also out of the park with ease.

Introduction | The Annihilation of Caste - Dr. B. R. Ambedkar

If you don't want to read the whole thing at least read his response to MKG.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

As I said earlier we in India are not really concerned because we live and die in India and it does not matter one whit what the U.S Congress does.

The question is if one considers caste to be more important than the country, it does become a problem. But then we have an influential section of the Indian society who considered support to the British more important during the war than the independence of India. And people who refuse to even acknowledge that China invaded us.

I wonder why these so called intellectuals prefer rank Casteist leaders who can not even accept other Cases leave lone everybody else.

Are the caste leaders who have been responsible for massacre of thousands of Dalits the most eligible people to lead India?

 

[prasad1]

Mr. TKS very deliberately started this thread for NRI living in USA.
It is not for Indians living in India.

If you live in the USA (even as Green card holder) or a citizen of USA you may be interested to find out more. Let me share what I have.

I think members of the forum should pay attention, that Mr. TKS wanted some action from NRI's living in USA, no more, no less.

 

[Naina_Marbus]

My children do voluntary work now and then with a Human Rights Organization in USA that is devoted to exposing violence against Hindus worldwide. They provide detailed report to UN and world leaders with verifiable facts yearly after doing detailed research

It is called Hindu American Foundation (HAF).

I received an email about a recent event that I am sharing following my intro.

I just started reading this thread.

With regard to the call,

Your Call Can Counter Lobbying Efforts:

H.Res 417 is ...

my suggestion would be to coopt the Jewish lobby to talk to the Congress.

 

[tks]

My main intent in starting the thread is to create awareness primarily among NRI people who may wish to take action.
We got into discussions about other areas.

Indian integrity of debates is something that has been lost. One has to get exposed to Sri Sankara Bhashya with associated Tika-kara notes in order to realize the power of debating where one has to first state the opposing side with integrity. This is called Purva Paksha as some of you may know.

The modern day democracies debate the issues out rather than engage in fights but the prescription of how to debate is best learnt from studying our scriptures (I can already see some objecting since I said something positive about Hindu Scriptures

There has to be commitment to find the truth rather than be committed to own point of view and prejudices.

In today's world where news gets manufactured and where powerful money interests play a role in creating scripts for surrogates as to how to 'spin' an issue, it is hard to arrive at the truth easily.

There are few people who attempt to approach the world with research and facts and are truly committed to get at the truth.

The person I referred to like Rajiv Malhotra has many opponents who do not agree with him. Here is a blog belittling his work.

One reading such a blog can sweep all the research as 'old information already understood and answered'. For those wishing to go more in detail please consider reading the books by Infinity Foundation. (I have no relation to this Foundation and have no specific interest)

Rajeev Malhotra: American Manuwadi?s not so different verbal diarrhea | Dalit Nation - The Only Authentic Voice of Dalits

 

[Nara]

I just started reading this thread.

With regard to the call, my suggestion would be to coopt the Jewish lobby to talk to the Congress.

Naina (I love this moniker, Naina, like in enna naina), your suggestion is a good one, if only Brahminism is even in the radar screen of the Jewish lobby, though the neo-con tendencies of the Jewish lobby has much in common with Brahmnistic POV.

 

[renuka]

The person I referred to like Rajiv Malhotra has many opponents who do not agree with him. Here is a blog belittling his work.

One reading such a blog can sweep all the research as 'old information already understood and answered'. For those wishing to go more in detail please consider reading the books by Infinity Foundation. (I have no relation to this Foundation and have no specific interest)

Rajeev Malhotra: American Manuwadi?s not so different verbal diarrhea | Dalit Nation - The Only Authentic Voice of Dalits

Dear TKS ji,

I read about Malhotra..He does not really address the root of the problem..he is just white washing everything.

I am yet to see an Indian writer who is willing to admit the truth instead of white washing.

When someone writes the Truth he is accused of trying to break India etc..technically can something that is already broken be broken?

That is what I cant understand about us Indians..what is so hard to admit that we too have faults?

 

[tks]

I just started reading this thread.

With regard to the call, my suggestion would be to coopt the Jewish lobby to talk to the Congress.

The Foundation tries to research and report worldwide violence based on religion to UN among other activities.

The Jewish lobby would be busy with their own agenda.

Jewish religion is a gentle religion in the sense that they do not convert. Hinduism has no notion of conversion. India was the only country that did not persecute the Jews who maintained their faith for 2000 years. This was called out by Swami Vivekananda in his Chicago address.

You are perceptive in the sense that Hindus have more in common with Jewish approach to faith.

In fact there was a historic summit and signing by Rabbi leaders and group of Hindus who may have followers.

Here is a link as FYI

http://www.millenniumpeacesummit.org/Hindu-Jewish_Summit_Information.pdf

 

[tks]

Dear TKS ji,

I read about Malhotra..He does not really address the root of the problem..he is just white washing everything.

I am yet to see an Indian writer who is willing to admit the truth instead of white washing.

When someone writes the Truth he is accused of trying to break India etc..technically can something that is already broken be broken?

That is what I cant understand about us Indians..what is so hard to admit that we too have faults?

Dr Renu

I have not read a lot of Indian writers to agree or disagree.

Perhaps Malhotra is not addressing the root of whatever problem there is. You can..

Let us say it is all broken .. OK we admit it .. so what .

After agreeing on that note each of us will go about getting our next cup of coffee or indulge in whatever fancies our imagination.

There are few people in the world who do something about what they are convinced about. They speak with their action.

Most Indians (NOT ALL) in structured society are talkers and not doers in my experience. They love to argue, condemn, criticize and complain but at the end they will not do one thing for the community they belong to..(perhaps spit on the road for action) The definition of community may be whatever group identity they carry. This includes NRIs too

Of course they will do one thing - these days some support donation to a temple or some cause like that to deal with own insecurity and desires.

If more Indians are truly responsible many improvements will come very fast. To me that is one of the root cause issues
I know a few organizations that are not stuck in any analysis paralysis but are taking concrete actions. They are in India and outside India. In my view, Malhotra is an action oriented person ..

India functions because there those selfless few and action oriented leaders... Rest are talkers - they do not how to 'close' anything as in sales

On a lighter note let me share with you a blog that my kids shared with me..

It has a great message (6 harsh truths) , funny but filled with profanity - (so if anyone thinks they are morally against such a language then please do not open the link). There are video links which can be funny depending on your attitude. It even tells fellows how to get 'girls' - apt message for the Brahmin boys in search of brides

This is addressed to anyone that opens the link ... are you a talker or a doer? Only you can answer .. LoL

6 Harsh Truths That Will Make You a Better Person | Cracked.com

Regards

 

[renuka]

) ... are you a talker or a doer? Only you can answer .. LoL

Dear TKS ji,

LOL! I like this line "are you a talker or a doer"

It reminds me of similar meaning phrase 'He is all cock but no action"!LOL

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

I sincerely feel that this so-called "Anti India legislation" has been the handiwork of the Congress Party in order to show the BJP in a bad light during the Lok Sabha elections.

My worry is that BJP will go to retrograde "hindutva" ideology if it gets a preponderant majority and even we people will come to feel the dominance of hindi, Bania and other such uncomfortable impositions throughout the country, because the BJP/RSS view of "Bharat mahaan" is purely a north-indian one. If BJP does not get absolute majority but becomes the biggest in a ruling coalition, it will be as much corrupt (if not more) as the UPA and may even cleverly stop scams coming out in the open because at the core, BJP (RSS) is a cadre-based party.

Thus India has very few choices for a clean, honest and effective government, imo.

Dear sangomji,

My understanding is this:

1) Nothing is ultimately going to happen because of this legislation by US. It can be used to malign Modi during the coming election. ONCE the elections are over even americans will forget this piece of legislation because the money received by the lobbyists would have served its time out.

2) Hindutva ideology is not retrograde. Hindus have taken good care of their minorities since time immemorial. They will continue to do that for centuries to come. Of course in a large society there may be a few hiccups once in a while. Hindutva is better than the appeasement of minorities for vote bank herding.

3) Bharat mahan is essentially a hindu nationalist's idea. I am a hindu and a nationalist. So I have no problem with that idea. Language chauvinism can be dealt with by a mature Indian state. We have been doing that already-successfully. Similarly corruption is due to moral degradation and can be dealt with by stern measures taken by managers of the affairs of the nation.

4)You have left out what every one else is scared of. That Namo may polarise the society on religions. My view is that if it is to happen let it happen. May be Indians have to learn from the other nations of the world that a religious democracy is better than a secular democracy. Once India becomes a religious democracy all the bickerings will put on the back burner and we can move ahead with our other pressing issues. Please read the point no. 2 above. For what is said there minorities need not worry about a Hindu India. They will be fully protected and their religion will never be under threat. Shias, Sunnies, Ahmediyas, Kabirpanthis, jains, sikhs, budhdhists, charvakas, seventh day adventists, knanaya christians, catholics, protestants every one will have the freedom to practice their religion quietly. No conversions because it will be banned, no riots because votebank politics will not be there.

 

[amoghvarsha]

Respected Renukaji,

No, Its easy for Malhotra to write after he experiences conspiracies against Hindus by other religionists and Swamy who faces no less discrimination in "Dravidian" TN.
I think TKS has already explained the position enough. It will be better If u read "Breaking India" and listen to discourses of Swamyji and Rajivji( RM). Not listening to their views on the grounds of not sharing the grievances of Dalits itself amounts to Intellectual Fundamentalist approach. Nobody says that our culture was Ideal with no loopholes. If not, Why would there have been Tiruvalluvar, Buddha, Mahavira ,Nanak, kabir, Tukaram and Ambedkar in India. We had flaws and great inhumanities have been committed against Dalits. Thats the reason why we are repenting for it. Nobody opposes the reservation for Scs and STs and trying to help them uplift them although surely thats not enough.
The writers talk about the lobby( Muslim and Christians) who try to show everthing native to India and Hinduism as BAD. We should appreciate about it. Is there any concept of DNA and is anywhere written that Dalits were of different race in any of our scriptures whether secular or religious. Drona didn't say to Eklavya that u r from Munda race nor Lord Rama say to Guha or Ravana that u r from Bhil or Dravid race. U should read" History of Rigveda" by ShriKant Talageri which superbly rubbishes the Aryan Invasion/Migration theory. That theory seems now as a BULLSHIT after internal and external evidences cropping against which was speculated by European Historians for whatever reasons!! But not only we Indians read that in History, we are throughly ignorant to do any research in that particular area. It is only used in some scholarly circles or to play the rhetoric in caste and race bank politics. Now that is a phenomenon for which also we r definitely responsible to. We engage in useless discussions of "Which Language is old", "Which Language is great" , " Which race came first and what did they do originally" even though knowing that answers to all these queries will be purely speculative and a person will ultimately take the answer which is liked by him not found by him.
What has happened has happened..... We should definitely do something to rectify the damage done by our forefathers. We have to stop feeling low for each and other thing what our ancestors did and become guilty before every "outsider". It is this guilty feeling which has lowered the self-esteem of Hindus before others. Does any muslim feels guilty before Hindu for what Ghazni,Ghori, Khilji, Mongol, Turk, Arab has done in the name of Islam not just in "INDIA" but the whole "WORLD" or Christian feels guilty
for various inquisitions, crusades,etc. I am ready to feel guilty before a dalit for age long dicrimination, a muslim for Baburi and Godhra But R Muslims going to reciprocate with same for enormous bloodshed and destructions of my "Native" and " coreligionists" and their temples, Nalanda and Vikramshila, Vijaynagara and the list goes on..... I completely agree with RM. Why should I allow RamSetu to be called as Adams Bridge. Why should I allow its destruction when I know its not economically feasible and is environmentally detrimental??( Watch Subramanium Swamy's discourse on Ramsetu Project) Why should I acnowledge Jesus when nobody in "Christendom" cares about Rama or Krishna or any Indian personality or divinity??
If I were a Parashurama, I would foster ties with devil to answer Muslims and christians in their own terms for What they did to convert India. Where will we go with these kind of Past-oriented Logics??
If u invoke Ambedkar, perhaps a Muslim in his own sense will invoke Ghazni or Aurangzeb to finish their unfinished jobcard to exterminate "Infidels" and then I am left with no choice but to recall Guru Govind Singhji or Shivaji to counter them. If everybody starts invoking the dead people for solving all the persistent problems, Where will we the present generations go?? They will become dead to make space for the deads!! Or Perhaps the answer could be Moon or Mars!!