Anyone interested in discussing case studies

[auh]

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Mr.X is a rich and powerful man in his village. By catering to the weaknesses of the people, he was able to keep everybody under his control. However Mr.Y is an incorruptible person and wanted to sway the people away from the bad influences of X. He sought to inculcate independent thinking in people. This implied giving up short term pleasures and disciplined practice of the prescriptions of Y.

How can Y accomplish the difficult task?

Note: A good and practical solution can help in weaning people away from unprincipled and corrupt politicians.

Before taking up any solution, we have to ask "why?". Why should x want to control people? Why should y want to sway people? Why should y want independent thinking in people? Why should people listen to x or y?

 

[sravna]

Before taking up any solution, we have to ask "why?". Why should x want to control people? Why should y want to sway people? Why should y want independent thinking in people? Why should people listen to x or y?

Dear Auh,

Let me clarify. Let us X wants to control simply because it satisfies him to see people under his control, a basic instinct. If one wants to give a higher level rationale , we can say that X likes to retain power and influence. Y is mature, understands X and thinks that people need to be enlightened. Whether people should listen to X or Y can be a discussion. What people gain from X. As I said he caters to their weaknesses like satisfying their ego, providing them some basic comforts though with the intention of retaining his control. What people gain from Y is that people can get themselves rid of such imperceptibly harmful external influences and be able to think without such influences.

 

[sravna]

Very first example taken for Case study is only for matured /for those who indulge in many ways, including extra-marital relations , which , will not be tolerated by Brahmin, decent/married women who are the Bulk in our Brahmin lot . Mr Sravna,s Topic should not have been allowed in the First instance( I hope , all Members , except Renuka, I feel it is not in Good taste.better to think of Cases which would be nice & interesting to contribute by All.
Let me write more after getting feed back from our Praveen & other seasoned stalwarts , namely
Krish44
Rishikesan. ( A. Srinivasan)

Dear Shri Srinivasan,

The cases that I present are intended to be real life problems on which people generally grapple for solutions. I give more thoughts on what we learn i.e, the underlying principles we can draw in solving a problem. Two cases may seem totally unrelated but the solution may underlie a common principle. Generally we are blinded by emotions and so are not able to make right decisions, This effect is most pronounced in the case of lust which is said to be one of the six enemies of mind. If we are mature enough to think through that problem, we can say we are able to think in a mature way.

If you see my solution to the problem, it talks of self control and that is what is intended to be the focus rather than the details of the case itself. But I understand that some details may hurt the sentiments of some as it has now and I am sorry about that.

I will try to present cases which do not contain sensitive details as far as I can.

 

[sravna]

Actually X and Y follow different routes to self realization. People of the type of X want to control the external world and people of the type of Y want the inner self to be in control.

Here's some ways Y can try to convince the people of his philosophy What does one gain by comforts and pleasures? The answer is the type of happiness physical comforts give. Is there any constraint on that happiness? The answer is yes. The source of comforts and pleasures need to be constantly present.

If the source dictates your happiness , are you not imprisoned by it? Try to imagine that you are free from its influence. Are you not able to visualize a higher level of happiness because you really are in control of the situation. So you still get happiness, in fact a better one and you are free from external influences. When you are free from such influences, mind works with clarity and great logic. So you are able to be better at work and relationships also.

But since nature can impose a great constraint it may not be possible for all people to be able to bring back the self control. That is the reason there is the external world route. But the fact remains they cannot act the way they think and need to exhibit proper behavior. Fortunately nature provides such people with the ability to not express their emotions patently and keep them under check. Even such pseudo control would benefit such people because it prevents self destruction or unhappiness in the long term or low quality of happiness.

This is the pitch in essence that Y should make to the people not tampering with the natural inclinations but appealing to use or project the positive side of it. There should be ways of implementing them . People can change by seeing Y as an example, by gaining insights through appeal to their intellect which is then able to discern personal experiences correctly or by their own thought processes by trying to understand deeper as when teaching. Those who are not able to make a real change can at least exhibit the right behavior.

If x sees people changing he will also adapt and not try to exert negative influence and may even try to be positive because if he finds that people want positive things he may want to compete with Y on that objective.

 

[rishikesan]

Mr.Sravna, one thing Mr. Sravna!
I would like to Analyse about the tamil Brahmins about whom we are really concerned. Topics , related to us , the entire Tamil Brnahmins would be welcome. The Topic could be such it would emanate solutions to problems faced in the society. All men/women in our lot do have experiences & may have ready solutions, if only our Forum make an effort to Broad-base & openly invite One&

All by way of Appeal by Mr Praveen so that the member strength grows & we really get ideas /life
experiences , so we would know the real life problems in oUr TamiL Brahmins Then we would be
with real problems & our Stalverts will be iN a position to offer their real time solutions & implementable. This would eliminate individuals , occupying this All world Forum to mere Caucus ?
Note I serially appeal to Mr Praveen to loop in real reformers including Krishna /Dr zrenuka and Agee proven experienced & form a team& announce to All that t his team welcomes real life problems of T.Bs & would select useful Topics.
The team should be given a freeb hand to decide in every Topic & prepare a Solution for the benefit oF t hose others who may be facing Similar problems.
Mr Praveen to form this much needed Select committee to create confidence in The Tamil Brahmin Forum Or else the current Staleztopics would distract members & allow 2 or 3 play Shuttle on this Arena? A

A.Aa


(rs

L

 

[rishikesan]

No 80 written by me

Rishikesan ( A.Srinivasan )

 

[sravna]

Good suggestion Shri Rishikesan sir. The idea of this thread was to be a guideline for people faced with problems. I would think that people basically will not agree on everything. But broadly we can reduce the types of people to 2, one being attached to traditions and timeless values and the other who want to move in accordance with times. There are fundamental differences in their thinking. There just cannot be one solution to all. It seems there has to be a consideration of both the views and an amicable solution reached.

So there has to be at least two groups formed. The members of the group may be chosen in a democratic way by votes. I would suggest 3 members in a group would be right capturing the breadth and depth of knowledge and displaying original and innovative thinking.

There should be just one spokesperson for a group. He should be responsible for presenting the ideas and solutions of the group.

 

[sravna]

I think there has been some discussion and there are some principles we can distill from them.

These principles can act as a solid basis for people to make their decisions and actions. But that is only the first phase. Once you are able to discern what is right for the situation, you need to put it to action. This is where the bigger challenge lies. You definitely may have to fight against those who are against it and prevail over them. If your principles or convictions are shaky you will give in easily. That is where our convictions can help us. So to put what we think into action, we have learn to cope up with the external pressure. We may have to use some practical techniques which would help us in this regard.

As a matter of fact if one really has enough self control nothing else matters. But it is when we are trying to gain such control that we have to put up a fight. In the coming cases we will focus much more on how to be pragmatic about putting what we think into action.

 

[sravna]

Folks,

In this thread I have been talking mostly from the perspective of a higher level approach to a problem. Let us now get into more nitty gritty. It would not be a news for you if I say I am a firm believer in ayurveda. Ayurveda talks about balance in tridoshas and guna for right physical and mental health.

It seems to me that the tridosha balance which is sought to be assessed in a person in ayurveda is the right approach to solving health problems. But let me dwell on it some other time. Since the thread is about dilemmas which requires correct application of mind, I will talk about guna assessment and its relevance before presenting the next case.

 

[sravna]

Before discussing gunas , a final thought on self control and its importance. Let us say you have to your credit a lot of intellectual accomplishments . Say you are an acclaimed nobel prize winner. But you do not believe in a reality other than physical reality and that is in accordance with your nature. Now can you take the insult of somebody calling you stupid? I think you very much would because you accomplishments make you confident to take that insult without affecting you. But what let us assume for arguments sake, if the whole world calls you stupid and keeps jibing at you and your accomplishments. I think at least after a while you will begin to feel the pain. That is because you believe only in the external world ans so all that is external can make an effect on you at some point depending on the intensity of pressure.

But I can say that a person who believes in the reality of inner self more is a lot less affected by external pressure. So he is able to accomplish something more than a person who is so intellectually accomplished but does not believe in inner self.

 

[sravna]

The beauty, is in spite of the wisdom in believing in inner self, God's wisdom is unique in that he has been to fair to all when it comes to survival and prosperity in the world. If you believe in yugas, we can see each type enjoys its fair share of happiness when you see all the 4 yugas. We can see fairness all around and always in God's creation if we try to be more and more discerning.

 

[rishikesan]

Dear Mr,. Sravna, I feei awkward when I find that the members do not feel like replying to your repeated writings. either they do not feel like reading the abstract explantations & find difficulty to reply suitably ? I suggest --you defer further writing for a week or 10 days.

A.srinivasan

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Rishikesan Sir,

I do not think that there is no interest in the thread as people are viewing it.

Actions need to stand on a firm basis and I was trying to focus on the basis . I will start focusing on the practicalities in the coming posts.

 

[renuka]

Dear Mr,. Sravna, I feei awkward when I find that the members do not feel like replying to your repeated writings. either they do not feel like reading the abstract explantations & find difficulty to reply suitably ? I suggest --you defer further writing for a week or 10 days.

A.srinivasan

Dear Rishikeshan Ji,


I do read all of Sravna's post cos some are interesting and thought provoking..for the past 1 week I was caught up with some work and could not find time to come online.

I wish you too could share some points for the benefit of all.

 

[sravna]

Dear Rishikeshan Ji,


I do read all of Sravna's post cos some are interesting and thought provoking..for the past 1 week I was caught up with some work and could not find time to come online.

I wish you too could share some points for he benefit of all.

Dear Renuka,

Nice of you to have made that post. Thank you

 

[krish44]

long live sravna.

jeeyo hazaron saal.

we are hunting for case study.

it should be interesting enough for sravnaji to dissect.

 

[sravna]

long live sravna.

jeeyo hazaron saal.

we are hunting for case study.

it should be interesting enough for sravnaji to dissect.

Dear KrishJi,

I do not like to dissect. They eventually end up contradicting what you started with. I prefer the big picture

 

[renuka]

Before discussing gunas , a final thought on self control and its importance. Let us say you have to your credit a lot of intellectual accomplishments . Say you are an acclaimed nobel prize winner. But you do not believe in a reality other than physical reality and that is in accordance with your nature. Now can you take the insult of somebody calling you stupid? I think you very much would because you accomplishments make you confident to take that insult without affecting you. But what let us assume for arguments sake, if the whole world calls you stupid and keeps jibing at you and your accomplishments. I think at least after a while you will begin to feel the pain. That is because you believe only in the external world ans so all that is external can make an effect on you at some point depending on the intensity of pressure.

But I can say that a person who believes in the reality of inner self more is a lot less affected by external pressure. So he is able to accomplish something more than a person who is so intellectually accomplished but does not believe in inner self.

Dear Sravna,

If someone calls me stupid..I usually do not really care cos I do not mind if someone thinks I am stupid cos at least he or she wont bother me as much.

If people know that you are intelligent then we would be bothered by others more.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

If someone calls me stupid..I usually do not really care cos I do not mind if someone thinks I am stupid cos at least he or she wont bother me as much.

If people know that you are intelligent then we would be bothered by others more.

Dear Renuka,

Nice perspective! The problem is it sounds intelligent.

 

[sravna]

Asking someone to be moral has become a cliche. So people are not even willing to listen to such talk. That is regrettable to say the least. Our nation can move forward and take a lead over other nations only if we practice again moral values. Our culture is so supportive of that it takes a lot less effort for us to really put into it practice. For others it is out of times or even only of utopian value.

Let us perceive this incredible advantage and try to move ahead. One of the major advantages of being moral is that it makes you an independent thinker. It helps you make your own decisions without relying on others advice. All of our day to day thinking, and long term goals need to be thought out without worrying for the consequences. The more our thinking is driven by something that is true all the time , the more we are free from negative consequences. This is important because it is difficult to foresee all events in the future and plan for them. Planning elaborately also imprisons us to a certain fixed course of action and that makes us more and more robotic.

So the best way to not worry about future and be spontaneous is to train ourselves to use moral values. Some may think that is also an imposition on ourselves but I would say that is only till you are able to get a comfortable level of control which you will if you are sincere in practice and from thereon your thinking will start to be spontaneous and be right for any situation. It has the big benefit of making you adept at handling stress and so improve your health, career and relationships which is all one can ask for.

 

[krish44]

There is no absolute morality .

It is a function of time and geography and is moderated by society one lives in and keeps.

So one has to live on owns concept of morality which others might consider immpral by their perception.

So no sense crying every time immoral whenever anyone acts or thinks in a certain way.

One does not judge others by setting morality codes of own making and expect others to adher to it

 

[sravna]

There is no absolute morality .

It is a function of time and geography and is moderated by society one lives in and keeps.

So one has to live on owns concept of morality which others might consider immpral by their perception.

So no sense crying every time immoral whenever anyone acts or thinks in a certain way.

One does not judge others by setting morality codes of own making and expect others to adher to it

The fact that certain values hold irrespective time speaks for absolute values. Killing for example cannot be allowed to be done. You will understand the argument better if you realize that certain actions are not allowed or discouraged because they give rise to contradictions. If you think nobody should cheat you but you can cheat others then there is contradiction. Timeless or moral values are never contradictory and hence can be practiced always.

I think there is a certain negative connotation that is there on the word morality that people refuse to or not able to understand it better.

 

[rishikesan]

Dear Mr.S. Vaidyaraman, As I have mentioned, any thing abstract is not palatable to almost all general Public & also to this Forum. Your Narration , if delivered in a spiritual Platform, joining with other such Persons, it may be fruitful If you are Chennai, We can meet.

Rishikesan

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Rishikesan Sir,

I understand but I think it also presents a great opportunity in presenting and trying to make acceptable a perspective that is not properly understood. For that one needs to present the logic behind desirability of the perspective. That is what I am trying to do. I am so persistent because I know it has worked me in face of formidable odds and I am sure it will work for others and make their quality of life much better.

Yes I would be glad to meet you. Thank you.

I believe the world is badly in need of positivity and spirituality can offer exactly that. I plan to start an initiative in this regard on a larger scale that will reach more people. I am now just trying to build the necessary intellectual infrastructure based on which I can make my appeal.

 

[renuka]

Asking someone to be moral has become a cliche. So people are not even willing to listen to such talk. That is regrettable to say the least. Our nation can move forward and take a lead over other nations only if we practice again moral values. Our culture is so supportive of that it takes a lot less effort for us to really put into it practice. For others it is out of times or even only of utopian value.

Let us perceive this incredible advantage and try to move ahead. One of the major advantages of being moral is that it makes you an independent thinker. It helps you make your own decisions without relying on others advice. All of our day to day thinking, and long term goals need to be thought out without worrying for the consequences. The more our thinking is driven by something that is true all the time , the more we are free from negative consequences. This is important because it is difficult to foresee all events in the future and plan for them. Planning elaborately also imprisons us to a certain fixed course of action and that makes us more and more robotic.

So the best way to not worry about future and be spontaneous is to train ourselves to use moral values. Some may think that is also an imposition on ourselves but I would say that is only till you are able to get a comfortable level of control which you will if you are sincere in practice and from thereon your thinking will start to be spontaneous and be right for any situation. It has the big benefit of making you adept at handling stress and so improve your health, career and relationships which is all one can ask for.

Dear Sravna,

I don't feel its possible to be "moral" in all aspects of life..that would be very boring too.

We can outwardly be very moral but in our mind we can be very immoral and enjoy a fantasy or two that no one would ever know!LOL