Are Avatars over rated?

[tks]

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Unless other muslim countries and princely states in the gulf which are also facing a fate worse than death come together and annihilate ISIS and neutralise it.

Even Iran reached out to US and extended temporary partnership.
The other Muslim countries are ruled by dictators who do not want the likes of ISIS but they have to protect their own self from own Sunni population joining the violence

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Unless a fanatic, a Shiva worshiper prays Vishnu also.

But most of the Vaishnavites don't pray Shiva.

P.S: I have a few students who are Vaishnavites but still wear vibhooti.

Per your statement, again, it is not ten avatars and only nine avatars, since Rama has not disclosed his identity.

In your first line, you are very authentic about a Shiva devotee - who is fanatic and who is not.

Your second line perfectly exposes you that you don't want to comment on Vaishnavites; probably you are scared or accept their way of belief and they are not fanatics.

Being a Smartha (I presume), you are a perfect pseudo Vaishnavite.

 

[Raji Ram]

1. Per your statement, again, it is not ten avatars and only nine avatars, since Rama has not disclosed his identity.

2. In your first line, you are very authentic about a Shiva devotee - who is fanatic and who is not.

3. Your second line perfectly exposes you that you don't want to comment on Vaishnavites; probably you are scared or accept their way of belief and they are not fanatics.

4. Being a Smartha (I presume), you are a perfect pseudo Vaishnavite.

1. Did any avtAr other than Sri Krishna disclose that He is the avtAr of Vishnu?

You seem to be totally confused about my statement about Sri Rama!

2. Yes! There are some fanatics in Shiva devotees. One is shown in the movie 'DasAvathAram' by Kamal.

3. The line ''But most of the Vaishnavites don't pray Shiva'' means that most of the Vaishnavites are fanatics!!

You seem to be confused again! (I wrote about my close friend some time back in forum.)

4. I am a Smartha but I strongly believe that there is only ONE supreme power and anyone can pray the power in any form! ray:


P.S: And now.... I don't want to drag this argument anymore because I guess you can never understand what I write!!

Henceeace:

 

[Raji Ram]

I think it is getting to be interesting. And by the way, who is this new character K and Mrs K? Is it Kumbakarna and Mrs. Kumbakarna? I mean a modern avatar of K and Mrs. K.? LOL

No Sir!

How can you forget the star writer, who often wrote about his fear of getting hit by his pretty better half's rolling pin?

 

[renuka]

1. Did any avtAr other than Sri Krishna disclose that He is the avtAr of Vishnu?

You seem to be totally confused about my statement about Sri Rama!

2. Yes! There are some fanatics in Shiva devotees. One is shown in the movie 'DasAvathAram' by Kamal.

3. The line ''But most of the Vaishnavites don't pray Shiva'' means that most of the Vaishnavites are fanatics!!

You seem to be confused again! (I wrote about my close friend some time back in forum.)

4. I am a Smartha but I strongly believe that there is only ONE supreme power and anyone can pray the power in any form! ray:


P.S: And now.... I don't want to drag this argument anymore because I guess you can never understand what I write!!

Henceeace:

Ha Ha Ha...now this is what I call an Over-Reaction to an Irritant!LOL

RR ji..dont worry..its only with over- reaction to an irritant that a pearl is formed in an oyster.

So keep on "reacting" and giving us pearls of wisdom.

 

[Raji Ram]

Ha Ha Ha...now this is what I call an Over-Reaction to an Irritant!LOL

RR ji..dont worry..its only with over- reaction to an irritant that a pearl is formed in an oyster.

So keep on "reacting" and giving us pearls of wisdom.

:nono: Renu!

Actually I am trying to keep the over-reaction syndrome down and hence want to :tape2:

P.S: Luckily Chandru Sir did not worry about the subsects of these avatArs!!

 

[CHANDRU1849]

:nono: Renu!

Actually I am trying to keep the over-reaction syndrome down and hence want to :tape2:

P.S: Luckily Chandru Sir did not worry about the subsects of these avatArs!!

I think Rama and Krishns are Pshatriyas and I was told Parasurama was a Saivite and no idea about others, including Macha, Varaha etc. only Zoologists to tell the variety.

For your information, many people in Iyer community are particular about sub sect.

Recently, I spoke to a famous Carnatic Musician, who belonged to Brahacharanam Sect. He was extremely elated while saying that the top three violinists Lalgudi, MSG and T N Krishnan and GNB and Musiri belonged to his sub sect. How is it?

Have you ever come across an Iyer who said he doesn't know anything about sub sect or doesn't want to tell.

Majority of Iyers have faith in it till date; matrimonial columns are perfect examples.

 

[Vaagmi]

Sri Chandru,

Your post #32 for reference:

You have a tendency to refer to Vaishnavites sarcastically and to refer to avatars in an offending manner. So for a change I thought I can give you back something to think about.

You said:"no idea about others, including Macha, Varaha etc. only Zoologists to tell the variety".If you think you are humorous, please note you are not. Hinduism has two prominent branches of philosophical thought. Saivism and Vaishnavism. There are enough number of hotheads on both sides. Please do not try hard to be one of them. A hothead from the vaishnavite side now wants to ask you a question in reply to your shot in blue quoted above. But I have asked him to keep quiet. LOL.

 

[renuka]

Sri Chandru,

Your post #32 for reference:

You have a tendency to refer to Vaishnavites sarcastically and to refer to avatars in an offending manner. So for a change I thought I can give you back something to think about.

You said:"no idea about others, including Macha, Varaha etc. only Zoologists to tell the variety".If you think you are humorous, please note you are not. Hinduism has two prominent branches of philosophical thought. Saivism and Vaishnavism. There are enough number of hotheads on both sides. Please do not try hard to be one of them. A hothead from the vaishnavite side now wants to ask you a question in reply to your shot in blue quoted above. But I have asked him to keep quiet. LOL.

Vaagmi Ji...no doubt I also feel that Chandru seems not so pro Vaishnava but at the same time we need people like him to keep a tab on Vaishnavas too!

Because Vaishnavas can be out right and at times totally brutal.

So its good that the Forum has you and Chandru..both are like the Ying and Yang to keep everything in place.

So Jai Chandru and Jai Vaagmi!

 

[Vaagmi]

Vaagmi Ji...no doubt I also feel that Chandru seems not so pro Vaishnava but at the same time we need people like him to keep a tab on Vaishnavas too!

Because Vaishnavas can be out right and at times totally brutal.

So its good that the Forum has you and Chandru..both are like the Ying and Yang to keep everything in place.

So Jai Chandru and Jai Vaagmi!

Renukaji
I understand. You want me to be brutal and quit at the earliest. Let me think whether I should oblige. The fly in the ointment is that this is a forum run by saivites for saivites. They call it tb cos they too are TBS. Just a complaint from one of them that they were hurt by a post is enough not only to delete it but also to ask for an apology and ban the member irrespective of provocation or truth. You know it well. Shivoham shivoham.

 

[Vaagmi]

Renukaji
I understand. You want me to be brutal and quit at the earliest. Let me think whether I should oblige. The fly in the ointment is that this is a forum run by saivites for saivites. They call it tb cos they too are TBS. Just a complaint from one of them that they were hurt by a post is enough not only to delete it but also to ask for an apology and ban the member irrespective of provocation or truth. You know it well. Shivoham shivoham.

And Renumma dear

Vaishnavam is not equal to ASAIVAM to be brutal and dripping with blood. LOL

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Vaagmi Ji...no doubt I also feel that Chandru seems not so pro Vaishnava but at the same time we need people like him to keep a tab on Vaishnavas too!

Because Vaishnavas can be out right and at times totally brutal.

So its good that the Forum has you and Chandru..both are like the Ying and Yang to keep everything in place.

So Jai Chandru and Jai Vaagmi!

Questioning the validity of certain stories insulting others doesn't mean anti.

You cannot expect a Saiva to be a pro-Vaishanava and vice versa. There is no need for it also and at the same time, it doesn't mean that one can fight with each other. Since there was comment about avatar sub sects, I had to reply.

A genuine Iyer or Smartha. as the case may be, and a Saivite will definitely and have every right to question the stupidity of some stories in which some Kings killed by Krishna, who was an avatar of Vishnu - a Vaishnavite, were shown as Saivites. Frankly speaking, it is an insult of Saivism and Lord Shiva, which is, unfortunately, being subscribed by some controversial Vibhudhi sporting people. Some of them were also punished and humiliated very severely by God.

The first and foremost requirement of a person, if he/she has faith in God, is religious discipline.

The is also my reply to Mr Vaagmi for his outburst.

 

[renuka]

And Renumma dear

Vaishnavam is not equal to ASAIVAM to be brutal and dripping with blood. LOL

Vaagmi dear,

Violence is not merely Hemoglobin drenched...Prejudice is also Violence..a Passive Aggression which is always mistaken for Sattva.

 

[vsubbu48]

This fight between vaishnavite and saivite brahmins seems to be ridiculous. To me it appears that all brahmins were vaishnavites once upon a time. For example, can we start any religious ceremony without doing aachamanam and anga vandanam which is oblation to vishnu. Even in Sandhavandanam there is no prayer for shiva, though even navagrahas are prayed. The sandhyavandana mantras even say that all prayers go to vishnu. Likewise in all our rituals we recite mantras praising vishnu. My guess is that the puranas might have been written at that point of time when vaishnavism was followed by all brahmins and as a result show some bias against saivites. Subsequently when saivism was embraced by the kings, some of the brahmins must have become saivites for some reasons.

Even Paramacharya said that all brahmins were sporting only yaaga bhasma in the olden days. Wearing vibhuti and naamam came subsequently with the advent of sankara, ramanuja and madhva. (I would like to mention here that when I was living in Gujarat, I could not get vibuti even though the brahmins there are mostly saivites. I used to go to some temples and collect Bhasma from their for my use)

 

[renuka]

(I would like to mention here that when I was living in Gujarat, I could not get vibuti even though the brahmins there are mostly saivites. I used to go to some temples and collect Bhasma from their for my use)

Dear Subbu ji,

Even when I was in Karnataka..Shiva temples there do not have Vibuthi..they give you Chandan and Flowers.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

This fight between vaishnavite and saivite brahmins seems to be ridiculous. To me it appears that all brahmins were vaishnavites once upon a time. For example, can we start any religious ceremony without doing aachamanam and anga vandanam which is oblation to vishnu. Even in Sandhavandanam there is no prayer for shiva, though even navagrahas are prayed. The sandhyavandana mantras even say that all prayers go to vishnu. Likewise in all our rituals we recite mantras praising vishnu. My guess is that the puranas might have been written at that point of time when vaishnavism was followed by all brahmins and as a result show some bias against saivites. Subsequently when saivism was embraced by the kings, some of the brahmins must have become saivites for some reasons.

Even Paramacharya said that all brahmins were sporting only yaaga bhasma in the olden days. Wearing vibhuti and naamam came subsequently with the advent of sankara, ramanuja and madhva. (I would like to mention here that when I was living in Gujarat, I could not get vibuti even though the brahmins there are mostly saivites. I used to go to some temples and collect Bhasma from their for my use)

Hinduism is not an organized religion. Brahmins are not the only followers of Hinduism.

Sandhyavandana and other mantras has Vishnu's name and also Rama's. We also say 'Parameswara Priyadhartham'. What does Parameswara mean? Does it relate to Lord Shiva or Vishnu?

When Brahmin community underwent split, and Smartha sect was formed, who want to give prominence to Lord Shiva, the word 'Parameswara Priyadhartham' might have been included.

Regarding Bhasma, it is nothing but Ash. It can be in different form. So also using of Chandan. Chandan Abhishek, especially during Pradosham, is an important one in Shiva Temples.

Sporting Vibhudhi was prevalent even during Thevaram's time. Probably, you take only North or West India as your base for Hinduism.

It is not the fight between Saivite and Vaishnative Brahmins.

The point is some Saivite Brahmins have no guts to accept the fact some kings killed by Krishna were shown as demons and followers of Saivism, which, in my view, is not correct.

So many things have changed from olden days. Modern day religious leaders are travelling in AC cars.

Hence, Bhasma becomes Vibhudhi. But still we use Bhasma while performing Yagnas in the house.

Christians also give importance to Ash. Ash Wednesday is being celebrated every year.

Hence, Bhasma or Ash or Vibhudhi are one and the same, in different formulations.

 

[Raji Ram]

I heard a strange story about 'poochchAndi' in a lecture! There was a time when those who smeared viboothi were beheaded!

Some of the paNdArams who were brave enough to face the punishment smeared viboothi all over the body because they don't

have any family to support! They were all killed. Then the punishment became stronger by killing even those who talked to the

poochchu Andis. So, there was a time when people locked themselves in their houses, if a poochchAndi was seen nearby!
Hence 'poochchAdi varuvAn' is used even now to threaten children! :fear:


Here is the Tamil write-up which I had posted sometime back in 'Literature' forum:

பூச்சாண்டி வருகிறான்!

இந்த வார்த்தையைச் சொல்லித்தான், நாம்
எந்தக் குழந்தையையும் அடக்கிவிடுவோம்!

'பூச்சாண்டி' என்ற சொல் எப்படி வந்தது என்று
புதுவித விளக்கத்தைச் சொல்லக் கேட்டேன்!

சேர சோழ பாண்டியர்கள் நம் நாட்டை ஆண்ட
நேரத்திற்குப் பல காலம் முன்பு, சைவத்தை

எதிர்க்கும் ஒரு கூட்டம் அராஜகம் செய்தது!
எதிரில் எவரேனும் விபூதியை நெற்றியிலே

இட்டு வந்தால், யாரென்றுகூடக் கேளாமலே,
வெட்டி விட்டனர் அவர்களின் தலைகளை!

அது மட்டுமல்லாது, விபூதி இட்டவர்களிடம்
பொது இடத்தில் பேசுபவரும், பெற்றிடுவார்

அதே போன்ற மிகக் கொடிய தண்டனையை!
இதே நீண்ட காலம் தொடர, ஆண்டிகள் சிலர்

கூடிப் பேசி, இதைத் தடுக்க ஒரு வழியினை
நாடி, தைரியமாக ஒரு முடிவும் எடுத்தனர்!

சொந்த வீடு, வாசல், மனைவி, மக்கள் என்று
எந்த பந்தமும் இல்லாது அவர்கள் உள்ளாரே!

இறந்தால் நன்மையே அவர்களுக்கு; சிறந்த
இறைவன் திருவடி சேரலாம், விரைவிலே!

பயமே இன்றி உடல் முழுவதும் திருநீறு பூச,
பயம் வந்தது மக்களுக்கு, அவர்களிடம் பேச!

திருநீறு பூசிய ஆண்டிகள் உலவிடும் சமயம்,
திரும்பிப் பார்க்காமல், கதவை அடைத்தனர்!

'பூச்சாண்டி வருவான்', என்று சிறுவர்களிடம்,
பூச்சாண்டி பயத்தையும் ஏற்படுத்திவிட்டனர்!

பயத்தின் காரணத்தால் வந்த இந்தப் பெயரே,
பயத்தை வரவைக்கும் 'பூச்சாண்டி' ஆயிற்று!


(ஒரு சொற்பொழிவில் ஒரு பெரியவர் சொல்லக் கேட்டது!)

 

[KRN]

Hello Even before ISIS we had gruesome atrocities perpetrated during the 1975 Bangladesh liberation war... during Partition...by Stalin.. by Hitler... and so on in the past. Extreme volence still happens unabated in many Countries... esp African. So why do you think people continue to believe in religion after these events?

I am starting to wonder if Avatars are over rated.Frankly speaking what earth shaking feat did anyone of them do?Of what use was it to the world for Varaha Avatar to kill Hiranyaksha?Of what use was it to the world for Narasimha to kill Hiranyakshipu?Of what use was it to the world that Vamana came to send Bali to Patala Loka?Of what use was it to the world for Parashurama to kill a few arrogant Kshatriyas?Of what use was it to the world for Rama to kill Ravana?Of what use was it to the world for Krishna to kill Kamsa and help the Pandavas to gain back their kingdom?It seems to be that Avatars descend for a one to one "fight" for crimes that are so trivial.Why do Avatars waste their own time?Compared to ISIS and their recent crime of beheading even children..none of the Asuras of the past that we killed by any Avatar actually deserved to be killed.Why is there no Avatar now to handle ISIS?Avatars seem to only take birth to waste time in India killing Asuras and settling land and kingdom disputes and chasing Asuras that abducted another's wife!Why cant any Avatar do anything worth while?Now the question is "Did Avatars really exists? Or it was just a fiction of imagination of some Vaishnavite?"

 

[renuka]

Hello Even before ISIS we had gruesome atrocities perpetrated during the 1975 Bangladesh liberation war... during Partition...by Stalin.. by Hitler... and so on in the past. Extreme volence still happens unabated in many Countries... esp African. So why do you think people continue to believe in religion after these events?

I dont know why but act of slow beheading makes me so scared to even imagine the pain.

If a person is shot dead I dont feel as gruesome as slow beheading..cos that's extreme torture.

I have no idea why this act alone makes me feel real bad and other forms of death do not seem to make me uneasy as much.

Coming to your question as why people still continued to believe in religion..my answer is :

1)Religion is an anti oxidant

2)God is an anti depressant.