Are hindus able to critique semitics without being called communal/ anti-minority ?

[sapr333]

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Dear V.V, I have ckd that link about temple attack in Kerala.. The message clearly says, the culprits have been arrested.. So what are you trying to convey here?

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

Dear V.V, I have ckd that link about temple attack in Kerala.. The message clearly says, the culprits have been arrested.. So what are you trying to convey here?

so ........ if someone destroys/defaces a temple/cultural symbol .. they need to be brought to justice and only then the matter can be considered closed ...rt ?

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri VV Ji,

I have removed your posting about the desecration of one Hindu temple in Kerala, where the culprits were caught.

Again, these types of one off incident postings do not add anything to our knowledge, except to unnecessarily create hatred towards a particular group of our fellow citizens.

As I have communicated with you before, your postings are welcome here as long as they do not generalize based on single instances.

Regards,
KRS

 

[anandb]

I do agree and neither have I forgotten. Idol worship and temples have been a feature of human civilization in the last 2500 to 3000 years before the advent of Christianity. What is noteworthy is early Romans, Sumerians, Egyptians and Arabs all worshiped gods representing nature like Sun, Rain and Wind. We Hindus still worship them and still surviving so the connection is apparent.

 

[sapr333]

I do agree and neither have I forgotten. Idol worship and temples have been a feature of human civilization in the last 2500 to 3000 years before the advent of Christianity. What is noteworthy is early Romans, Sumerians, Egyptians and Arabs all worshiped gods representing nature like Sun, Rain and Wind. We Hindus still worship them and still surviving so the connection is apparent.

Dear Anand, so what exactly is the issue?

 

[anandb]

Caution long post

Dear Mr. Sapr333,

Thanks for your kind words at the beginning of your post. My only regret is I did not know about this forum and join earlier. I need to differ with you on quite a number of points. My response is marked in blue.

How did men of 10K BC expressed their feelings and lifestyle (Ajantha/Ellora)... Definitely not hindi.. tamil, sanskrit.. A big No.. Its only art which helped them to communicate to the future generations..

If you are talking about Ajantha and Ellora specifically they do not belong to the era of 10,000 BC but more towards 1st century AD. Even if you go before to 10,000 BC, our Sanatana Dharma was very well developed. One can argue there is no proof for that but even our Acharyas say that and I have no reason to doubt their words. Plus even Westerners agree the Rig Veda to have originated more than 2500 years ago and by that they mean in written form. Before that our Vedas were always taught and memorized orally meaning they go back before 2500 years. Our scriptures dealt with almost every discipline as astronomy, mathematics, astrology, music, art, dance, warfare, metallurgy and so on. What I am trying to say here is art was one form of expression in our Dharma/Hinduism and nude art (Khajuraho, temple sculptures) was a very small portion of it. So I will not agree with your premise that that was the only thing with which they communicated with future generations. Our ancients were highly advanced in various other disciplines.

Here I compare you with radicalism/fundamentalism/hindutva/talibanisation.. According to me, I feel, you wish to talibanise hinduism.. Many of us may not be aware, Islamic countries were the higest contributers to double entry accounting system (which brahmins excelled in British era),Algebra, and modern philosophy. IBN, Avvero were the greatest philosophers, who were talibanised and their works got burnt, but then, later copied by Christians of Europe during Rennaisance and succeeded.Inspite of all the glorious Islamic art and architecture (remember Islamic tajmahal/tabla/Sulfi), talibanised radical Islam condemned Art/sculpture/Painting/Music/ keeping in line with their (own)view of prophet mohammed's teaching to ban recording of 'Images' and recreational arts.

I am quite amused by your accusing me of wishing to Talibanise Hinduism which seems to be the most fashionable word these times but will come to that later. I am sorry to say that Islam’s contribution in lot of disciplines to this world is almost zero. Just to know how much ancient Indians contributed to modern theories just refer to this wonderful article
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/articles_hinduism/133.htm

I have nothing against Islam personally as I am living in one such country for the last 15 years. We talk about Islamic art but as per the Prophet’s teachings all kind of art, music, sports, and dance is banned. So where did the so called Islamic art originate from? It is definitely an offshoot of pagan art which existed in Arabia before Islam. Similarly the Gulf countries especially Saudi Arabia considered to be the cradle of pure Islam does not consist of any architectural masterpieces. These countries are now known more for Western type buildings built with western technology, sub continent labor and oil money. Only Egypt which is mostly Islam has the pyramids but they are pre-Islamic.

I would say I am a devout Hindu who can take criticism of Hinduism in my stride and answer them if I do have an answer. I am not for any kind of violence against any community which is what the Taliban preaches. It can be a dangerous thing to group moderate Hindus like myself with hardcore Hindutva elements who take to violence.

On the question of the “nude statue of David”, to me nudity in Hinduism and Christianity are totally different. Hinduism or more appropriately Sanatan Dharma is called apauresheya religion meaning divine or not man-made. The vibrations of our Vedas were heard and not written by the rishis or man. Even sex or nudity had a divine meaning in our system. There is a English translation of a speech made by Paramacharyal on the 40 samskaras to be followed by Brahmins. One of this is called Garbhadana which is the act of consummating a marriage, fashionably called first night. As per our Vedas during the act of garbhadana, appropriate vedic hymns are chanted. The day itself is fixed as per horoscopes of the couple. This is because in our religion it is not just an act of sex but something which brings a life into this world and it should be done in a divine atmosphere with positive vibrations.

Let me put it this way. Nudity in art in our culture vs Christianity has different connotations because the foundations of these religions were different. David’s statue is definitely a work of art as I have seen pictures of it. But they were done in different eras; especially the Hindu nude temple art was done way before the Christian era. The Hindu era was one where the standards of moral principles were high and not like these days. My argument all along was and is why particularly religious icons. I will argue the same way even if it is Prophet Mohammed’s cartoons or Mother Mary or Jesus Christ.

Dear Saprji, please don’t try to fit religion into science. I am not begging science to accept my image of Ganesha. According to me science has created more headaches than cure few examples being antibiotics, genetically modified foods. We human beings are still at the very basic level of understanding lot of things though we think we understand everything. Just because we don’t understand does not mean they don’t exist.

If any member is interested in knowing more about Hinduism, please visit this site called www.hinduwisdom.info. It is an amazing site run by an Indian lady settled in the States. The wealth of information available is breathtaking and since we Indians still suffer from this complex of seeking the Western stamp of approval on everything we do, one can see the stamp of approval given to our culture by various western Indologists. A book she has published called A Tribute to Hinduism is also very much recommended.

Thanks very much.

 

[sapr333]

Dear Anand, I agree with you,that,hinduism had better form of expressing god through oral tradition of Vedas(2500BC), when compared to art/sculpture, which came only at a later stage after Buddhism. In that context Babylonians, Egyptians(pls correct...Pyramid is not islamic), Greeks etc had much ancient and advanced form of art, than relying on scripture and oral tradition.

Regarding attributing all scientifc inventions to Hinduism, yes I do agree with you..With a great scriptures like Vedas, it easy to tally any inventions we come across... Hope you know, most of the inventers got their inspiration from fictional writers/philosophers etc etc.. But are we giving credit to those fictional writers as inventors.

Again, you rejected my statement of evaluating Lord Ganesha in line with science, and you are told me clear that Science and religion are poles apart.. Again, you took a nose-dive and wanna take credit for all the global scientific inventions, stating that they were all aready found in religion.. Arent you contradicting your own statement..

Anyways, I didnt respond in detail to your previous post, cos, it looks like we are deviating from the core topic...(Critic )...

 

[anandb]

Dear Sir,

In Hinduism, science and religion were never at loggerheads unlike early Christianity which burnt people at stake because they held scientific views which went against the Church. The ancient Rishis and sages very well knew a lot of what we call science now. There is an ancient treatise called Vymanika Shastra written by Sage Bharadwaja which gives all kinds of information regarding aeroplanes and things like (hold your breath) stealth technology, VTOL (vertical take off and landing). My take on scientific inventions is we human beings think in vain about the so called achievements and take credit for it. But a lot of it has been achieved and inspired by a continuous chain of human consciousness derived from the divine from time immemorial. Again our scriptures say that yugas and events keep repeating in cycles. So nothing new has been invented. They were all there before. It is like the Vedic mantras are indestructible as they exist in sound form and sound is indestructible. A form like Ganesha is possibly not existing within science in this yuga but in the previous ones where the level of human consciousness almost equaled god it was entirely possible. Our Sage of Kanchi said these god forms do exist and it is not a figment of anyone's imagination. We need to raise our level of consciousness to realize and feel them. Let's say if there is that rare individual who does realize that form now there is the danger he might be termed as a loony.

Thanks for reading through this bore. I do agree that this is going off-topic. Apologies.

thanks

 

[vivekam.vairagyam]

Dear Sri VV Ji,

I have removed your posting about the desecration of one Hindu temple in Kerala, where the culprits were caught.

Again, these types of one off incident postings do not add anything to our knowledge, except to unnecessarily create hatred towards a particular group of our fellow citizens.

As I have communicated with you before, your postings are welcome here as long as they do not generalize based on single instances.

Regards,
KRS

dont u see that if the same thing can happen in india and korea on many occassions it is not a one off incident ........ and is a trend ............?
.... and have u read about desecration of hindu temples in the northeast of india within the last year ...... ?
as obvious as it is that u r the moderator is the fact that u have applied ur rules incorrectly ..... and can u tell me where my posting tried to generalise based on single instances ? ... it was clearly showing similar practices by the same religious group across two countries ......

 

[kunjuppu]

moderator is only reiterating the guidelines

for mm and other those folks, who disagree with KRS re his enforcing his mandate and removing certain posts.. i am posting below the guidelines of this forum as published in the Guidelines section.

KRS is within his rights to do what he has done. Following the rules of the road, provides a safety net for all of us. thank you.


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[sapr333]

dont u see that if the same thing can happen in india and korea on many occassions it is not a one off incident ........ and is a trend ............?
.... and have u read about desecration of hindu temples in the northeast of india within the last year ...... ?
as obvious as it is that u r the moderator is the fact that u have applied ur rules incorrectly ..... and can u tell me where my posting tried to generalise based on single instances ? ... it was clearly showing similar practices by the same religious group across two countries ......

Dear V.V,

The article provided by Anand is all about one particular incidence in Kerala,where the police had already acted upon.. If you feel, its a global issue or national issue(happening all around), please feel free to share some data, in line with the nationalistic perspective? I would wait for that.. Lets attack this issue with a broad perspective...


>>>as obvious as it is that u r the moderator is the fact that u have applied ur rules incorrectly >>

You cannot question the Judge. Contempt of Court!!!.Its an accepted norm.. Doesnt matter if the judge is wrong or the one who selected him (as Mod) is wrong ...Lets use the yard stick of Cricket umpire..We have no say on their raising of both hands up, and his word is the last say, even if videos prove him wrong.. So please dont ridicule the Moderator..


Im bit serious about it, cos the majority in this forum realised that Shri. KRS is the best possible (available) moderator of this time, and there is a lot you and me could learn from him.. If you feel he is wrong or partial, then please apply for the Mod job..There are some more open vacancies there.