Are missionaries alone to be blamed?

[happyhindu]

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Misidentification persons logging in here and calling somebody as a proxy of some body else is not correct. When I was not logging into this form for few months, I was mis-identified for somebody else and some other gentleman was called as my proxy. Subsequently expressing apologies is not curing the hurt.

தீயினால் சுட்டபுண் உள்ளாறும் ஆறாதே நாவினால் சுட்ட வடு

But after some time, the member repeats the same

Even yesterday, Sri Suresoo has been offended. He has already expressed his displeasure in this thread and I am sorry to say, no body seems to address his feelings.

Repeatedly a particular member is offending others by calling proxy etc. Is it correct?

I am reminded of a story about a street dog which my grand mother use to tell me in my younger days. A street dog while going for sleep will decide that it will not touch banana leaves thrown to garbage after eating எச்சில் இலை from now onwards. But the moment somebody throws a banana leave, it will immediately jump to suck the same.

I wish members restrain from making such false allegations repeatedly.

All the best

Dear Shri RVR,

Please take a good look at yourself: http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/5114-missionaries-blame-9.html#post59907

First you made a post that i seem to "support violence and atrocities and also supporting fraudulent God-men cheating innocent people".

To you, nobody should post anything in their defence. Each time you make an allegation, you have to have the last word. And on that thread you did have the last word.

You have tried hard enough to brand me a missionary someway or the other. Now you find that there is no way you can continue to brand me as one, because i am not a missionary.

So finally you have resorted to calling me a street-dog, indirectly ofcourse. It shows how low you can go. It does not behoove well of you sir.

And to you, no apology can never cure any hurt, because your ego is so large sir, that it prevents you from doing so.

Shri RVR, each time it is you who first started personal attacks. But you cannot see it.

And i have mentioned the proxy thing only twice so far -- to you/uvsharma and next to suresoo/shivkc/sesh.

If ShivKC can ask whether 'Sahana' is my proxy, surely i too can ask him if he is a proxy or not.

I sent an email to Praveen asking him to check the IP addresses (of mine and Sahana's) to let ShivKC know. Praveen replied to us saying our IP addereses are different.

It is quite apparent that in this forum anything that is seen as "questioning' does not go well.

But Shri RVR, after interacting with you i learnt many things. Most importantly i learnt what caused the anti-brahmin movement. Considering you are from that generation, am not surprised regarding how and why it all begun. And after seeing 'dravidian' folks like swaminathasharma, am not surprised why other 'dravidians' go against 'brahmins' either.

I also learnt how vedists characterized other faiths in deplorable ways, and mislead folks, all because they cud not tolerate what the other side was saying.

Am also able to understand the extent, how much folks like yourself can go to be called brahmins. And i also understand how 'shastras' must have come about, with its interpolations and all.

So i must thank you for adding to my knowledge. If not for you, the vox populi of the brahmindom of tamilnadu, i wud never have read up, spoken and understood so many things in less than 24 months.

Am glad that brahmins in other states are different from tambrams. Thankfully, i also understand that all tambrams are not like yourself.

Please do remember Shri RVR, the only claim to any form of standing you have is because of your self-publicized and well-publicized charity work. Otherwise you wud be like a any other poster on the forum.

Please also remember, that someday you will grow too old and will not be able to do any charity work. Then this "image" that you are basking in, will be gone. It has happened to too many people i know.

Name and reputation do not last forever, unless you are a mahatma. And even the mahatma is not liked by everyone.

Regards.

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Shri RVR,

I presume you are referring to the discrimination against brahmins. I feel that when we consider the conversion problem, we invariably come to the issue of dalits being the largest target group for conversions. Then we go to analyzing why they do so. That leads us to our ancient varna system, dharmasastras, the untouchability, etc., etc. In such a stage we start with the discrimination brahmins are now being subjected to.

I do not think any other section of hindus is so much exercised by the conversions; they are concentrating in strengthening their respective castes and its cohesion rather than bother about the overall hindu configuration. It is perhaps because of our peculiar intellectual obsession that one member or another introduces this topic and we tend to discuss it very energetically, but without any commensurate action.

Perhaps it will be a good idea to follow Shri Hoover's wise counsel here and concentrate on what is needed for the tambram/brahmin community and leave the conversion topic to the political parties/govt., rather than dvelve on the conversion topic.

I, on my part, will stop posting on any such topic in future.

Dear Shri Sangom Sir,

Based on the wise counsel of Shri Hoover, i suppose you are not inclined to continue this discussion any more ? Please let me know. If ok, i will post a response to your post #45 on monday.

Regards.

 

[ShivKC]

Lets get clarified, just now I got a e-mail from site administrator that, sahana is not the proxy of happyhindu. The posters ip is different and also the geographical location is also different. Since the style of writing was same, i made a wild guess, but with no malice thoughts and i was wrong there. I really dont know who suresoo or sesh.

 

[ShivKC]

Shri ShivKC,

Getting admission in a three year degree course in a fairly decent college for boys in Chennai City is not at all difficult. Most of the three year degree courses are offered on self financing stream only and there is no government reservation rules applies for three year courses if Govt doesn't do financial support.

My son did MBA outside India.

All the best

Sh.rvr, my idea was to find out what discriminations your children faced during carreer building. few minutes ago I was stuck with one of your old posts copied below in a chapter 'My metaphysical experience in Chennai'. Please expose the discriminations faced in the loyala missionary college or Gulf job or in MBA? also, my stand will always be clear and one and i am against Hippocratic and changing stands.


http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/religion/2830-my-metaphysical-experience-chennai-3.html#post29740

RVR
This happened in the year 2000, June'

My eldest son passed out Plus two but didn't score the expected marks. We wanted him to do engineering degree from a good college in Tamilnadu but due to our caste tag, I was convinced, he will not get into good college. Mentally I was not willing to pay capitation fee for admitting him to an engineering college.

My (late) father scolded me like anything for my son's non-performance and told me to look for a arts/science college.

I decided to admit him in an arts/science college and applied for few colleges. But except one college which was not very popular at that time, there was no response from other colleges.

I always pray to my village Goddess `Nithya Kalyani Amman' and that night before sleep I prayed Her sincerely to show the way for my son. That night I got a dream in which my son was getting admission in Loyola college, Chennai (Year after year adjudged as best college in India by the popular magazine `India Today').

Next day early morning, my son went out to meet one of his friend. The friend has managed to get a seat at Loyola only on the previous day through some influence and was about to leave for the college to pay the fees. Friend's father has asked my son to come along with them to Loyola so that they can try a seat for him. My son went along with them. Fortunately he was carrying necessary records with him. There was a big Q in front of the principal room and my son also joined the Q to personally meet the Principal. I went for my official work and at about 10.30 A.M got a call from son saying that if I join him, it is better since the Principal is giving some spot admissions.

I immediately rushed to the College and at around 12 noon we met the Principal. He asked me what course you want for your son. I said Bachelor of Computer Application. He said `I can give you B.Sc (Computer Science).There is hardly any difference between both the courses. I couldn't believe myself for a moment. I immediately accepted his offer.

My son passed out of Loyola and subsequently did his MBA from a premier Institution of the country. He has just completed 26 years and has reached the position of `Acting General Manager - Marketing' in a multi-national company in gulf.

’ – Rigv

 

[RVR]

Dear Sri ShivKC

My replies are in blue.

Sh.rvr, my idea was to find out what discriminations your children faced during carreer building. few minutes ago I was stuck with one of your old posts copied below in a chapter 'My metaphysical experience in Chennai'. Please expose the discriminations faced in the loyala missionary college or Gulf job or in MBA? also, my stand will always be clear and one and i am against Hippocratic and changing stands.

If a brahmin boys is driven to the wall, what he can do? To escape one discrimination, he has to fall into another.

Definitely Catholics are preferred as compared to others in Loyola. After schooling, my son learnt to swim against the current.

Definitely we are second class citizens out side India. Discrimination is bound to come. Ultimately one will prefer to be discriminated within his own country. My son will definitely return to India in spite of whatever discrimination he faces here.

As a community, brahmins have to live with this discrimination.

All the best


http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/religion/2830-my-metaphysical-experience-chennai-3.html#post29740

 

[happyhindu]

Shiv KC,

A quick note.

To a 'brahmin' like RVR discrimination means:

1) Caste-reservations in colleges.

2) Having to employ a certain number of people of certain classes (perhaps the government is wise in having this caveat, otherwise imagine if brahmins employ only brahmins and nadars employ only nadars).

3) Other castes are getting loans on lower interest rates.

Must let you know, that there are several communities who do not get the privilages of being backward-caste either. They do not complain. But tambrams must complain. Because everything must come to them. It is their birth right.

And ofcourse, to RVR "privileges" of the brahmin community must not be encroached upon.

Nobody can expect tamil brahmins to give any form of "equality" to anyone, even if there are boys who are bright and spiritually inclined (you can find such boys everywhere, attending classes from chinmaya mission to arya samaj).

Varna crossovers are recommeded only by people who are street-dogs. Or by missionaries. To the tambrams, its all about them, their greatness, their birthright, as "BRAHMINS" -- loud and clear.

In such event, i wud think christians have all the ground to themselves to convert in tamilnadu. With such brahmins around no one needs enemies, missionaries or otherwise.

Regards.

 

[RVR]

I stand by my writings whether it is against God men or Missionaries. I will not apologize for any of my attacks and continue in this forum

There is a proverb in Tamil.

மானம் இழந்தபின் வாழா கவரிமான்

Apologizing is losing one's self respect.

Poet Nakkeerar refused to tender apology to Lord Shiva and showed his commitment to Tamil Language.

If the administration feels that I should apologize for any of my writing, I would like to rather leave this forum instead of tendering apology.

I have already written that I don't require certificate from anybody.

All the best

 

[ShivKC]

Sh.RVR, you having a grown up son and reached a considerable age, you should lead the younger generation in the right path.

You have put your own sons in the India's best college Loyola (as you claimed ), irking to me since its a missionary college, and you support here against macaulay education or missionary education and wanted all to go for Gurukul system for other. Is it not Hippocratic?
r u not pushing the next generation in a wrong direction, where as you personally want to move on where the world moves towards..

My interest here is, why people promote something outside and practise something inside.

 

[happyhindu]

I stand by my writings whether it is against God men or Missionaries. I will not apologize for any of my attacks and continue in this forum

There is a proverb in Tamil.

மானம் இழந்தபின் வாழா கவரிமான்

Apologizing is losing one's self respect.

Poet Nakkeerar refused to tender apology to Lord Shiva and showed his commitment to Tamil Language.

If the administration feels that I should apologize for any of my writing, I would like to rather leave this forum instead of tendering apology.

I have already written that I don't require certificate from anybody.

All the best

Nobody asked for your apology sir.

Must say, I did not think you are the type who can stoop to the extent of name-calling like 'street-dog'.

Minus the charity work, if one were to see you just as an individual, you are a huge disappointment, esp considering the life-skills that you should have accumulated for your age.

Guess what shri RVR, even street dogs are sometimes nicer beings than some self-pompus self-grandiose conceited people. So far Shri RVR i have been a mirror who has reflected you perfectly well. But going anymore wud be too much for me. The last thing i wud do is to compare you with Nakkeerar.

Regards.

 

[RVR]

Shree ShivKC,

My views are in blue.

Sh.RVR, you having a grown up son and reached a considerable age, you should lead the younger generation in the right path.

You have put your sons in the India's best college Loyola (as you claimed), irking to me since its a missionary college, and you support here against macaulay education or missionary education and wanted all to go for Gurukul system for other. Is it not Hippocratic?
r u not pushing the next generation in a wrong direction?

It is for the community to change the education system and personally as an individual I cannot do anything. Unless the system is changed, we don't have any other alternative but to follow it. My son joining Loyola College was also the best choice available at that point of that time and I am not ashamed of it. As I said earlier, when a brahmin boy at the age 17 for the first time in his life is driven to the wall with discrimination everywhere, he is forced to choose something even if he doesn't like it.

Can I change the reservation system of the Government? Or can I change the education system of missionaries.


Every one is learning continuously and age is no bar. When I got associated with a school just one year back, where children of fishermen community are studying, I started getting the opportunity to look into the details of the education system. I am not an educationalist and frankly I didn't had any idea about school education except my own personal experience which is several decades old.How to empower the children of fishermen community is a big question which we discussed internally. I searched old methods of education in India and definitely a better system prevailed before British invasion. I suggested the same to the Management of the school. They appreciated my views but told me plainly that it is difficult to implement in the present environment. Missionaries have not only spoiled the system but have brain washed every body with English medium. Anyway I am going to continue to spread my views wherever possible and let me see whether the system changes in the future.

It is only discussions which are doing here. If the society adopts Gurukulam type education in the future, let us welcome it. Definitely future generations of my own family will consider such an option. I have an open mind and let us hope the system changes for the better in the future. If you want to brand me as Hippocratic, please do so.

All the best

 

[ShivKC]

I stand by my writings whether it is against God men or Missionaries. I will not apologize for any of my attacks and continue in this forum

There is a proverb in Tamil. மானம் இழந்தபின் வாழா கவரிமான்

Apologizing is losing one's self respect.

Poet Nakkeerar refused to tender apology to Lord Shiva and showed his commitment to Tamil Language.

Nobody asked for your apology sir.

Must say, I did not think you are the type who can stoop to the extent of name-calling like 'street-dog

done this job in school days of asking apologies & writing 100 times apology letters. We are grown up now and so please stop throwing war of words.It is a good rule in life never to apologize,because right sort of people do not want apologies

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom Sir,

Based on the wise counsel of Shri Hoover, i suppose you are not inclined to continue this discussion any more ? Please let me know. If ok, i will post a response to your post #45 on monday.

Regards.

Smt. HH,

Really I am ashamed to see how this thread is being dragged down into a mire. I do not know who are all to blame. may be I should follow Shri Suresh, if this thread is not closed by Monday morning, you may post. But, may be I will reply to you through pm because why should we drag on this unnecessary wrangling about missionaries and conversions when ultimately we are not capable of doing anything?

 

[sangom]

Misidentification persons logging in here and calling somebody as a proxy of some body else is not correct. When I was not logging into this form for few months, I was mis-identified for somebody else and some other gentleman was called as my proxy. Subsequently expressing apologies is not curing the hurt.

தீயினால் சுட்டபுண் உள்ளாறும் ஆறாதே நாவினால் சுட்ட வடு

But after some time, the member repeats the same

Even yesterday, Sri Suresoo has been offended. He has already expressed his displeasure in this thread and I am sorry to say, no body seems to address his feelings.

Repeatedly a particular member is offending others by calling proxy etc. Is it correct?

I am reminded of a story about a street dog which my grand mother use to tell me in my younger days. A street dog while going for sleep will decide that it will not touch banana leaves thrown to garbage after eating எச்சில் இலை from now onwards. But the moment somebody throws a banana leave, it will immediately jump to suck the same.

I wish members restrain from making such false allegations repeatedly.

All the best

Dear Shri RVR,

I wish that your post did not contain the reference to "street dog" which is unable to desist from tasting எச்சில் இலை, its long term habit. That would have been much more dignified and would have added to the stature of this forum.

In another thread also, you had brought in the example of two street dogs. It makes me doubt whether you are an ardent upAsaka of Lord Dattatreya!

 

[RVR]

Dear Shri RVR,

I wish that your post did not contain the reference to "street dog" which is unable to desist from tasting எச்சில் இலை, its long term habit. That would have been much more dignified and would have added to the stature of this forum.

In another thread also, you had brought in the example of two street dogs. It makes me doubt whether you are an ardent upAsaka of Lord Dattatreya!

Sri Sangom Sir,

In Shiva temples we worship Lord Bhairavar

He appears with a dog in the enclosed photo.

Dog is the divine Vahana of Bhairavar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhairava

Even dog is worshiped along with Bhairavar.

All the best

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Shri RVR,

I wish that your post did not contain the reference to "street dog" which is unable to desist from tasting எச்சில் இலை, its long term habit. That would have been much more dignified and would have added to the stature of this forum.

In another thread also, you had brought in the example of two street dogs. It makes me doubt whether you are an ardent upAsaka of Lord Dattatreya!

Shri Sangom,

RVR told the story as a description for making repeted allegations of proxy. And i have made the allegation of proxy just twice. But that is good enuf to indulge in name-calling.

I am reminded of a story about a street dog which my grand mother use to tell me in my younger days. A street dog while going for sleep will decide that it will not touch banana leaves thrown to garbage after eating எச்சில் இலை from now onwards. But the moment somebody throws a banana leave, it will immediately jump to suck the same.

I wish members restrain from making such false allegations repeatedly.


RVR's post has nothing to do with the dignity or stature of the forum. For RVR, its just his self-pompousnes, his charity, the great work he is doing for his community, his thots on how much brahmins suffer (and ofcourse he wants everyone to believe brahmins are under some sort of a seige in tamilnadu facing great atrocities and discrimination).

Perhaps you are trying to make it jocular by bringing in Lord Dattateya. But sir it is not jocular.

Perhaps Praveen wants you to enther this, or perhaps you yourself (being RVR's good friend) want to enter this, to "help" out Shri RVR.

And considering that RVR is more or less like the MD of this forum, ofcourse he can not only call anyone a street-dog, he can also make any sort of allegation.

If i had called him a street-dog, i can only imagine what praveen wud have done by now. But ofcourse 'they' will stay silent in such a case. And turn blind since there is no name-calling here.

The more i get to know this "system" the more i understand how things might have been just 80 years ago.

Reagards.

 

[suresoo]

In Shiva temples we worship Lord Bhairavar

He appears with a dog in the enclosed photo.

Dog is the divine Vahana of Bhairavar

RVR Sir,
Do you know of a Bhairavar temple in and around chennai?
On the last day of our visit to India our Car Hit a Street Dog and we wanted to goto Bhairavar Temple as prayachitham.

And two other things
1) Please do not share personal info like 'Your Sons Colleges' etc..... Some here might use it to haunt you for a long time. Discontinue talking on that.

2) East or West 'Street Dog' reference is looked down. Many do not see Bhairavar in such quotes. Can you please remove those ref?

thanks,

 

[happyhindu]

Sri suresoo and others,
There is no need to ask folks to delete any thing. We are mature adults here. Not school kids who need to take back words, or apologise, to indulge in nursing egos. I request praveen not to come with a lock here either. Sooner or later things will be back to normal. And we will learn to grow up.
Regards.

 

[kunjuppu]

RVR, and other folks,

my comments, i will post in 'times they are changing'... are these all not impact of changing times.

i would also urge praveen not to close threads. if absolutely needed, remove a post, but even then, better to modify it.. members should learn to express without using bad words.

 

[praveen]

I am currently on the road with limited network access and mobile phone access...

As requested by HH and Kunjuppu, this thread is not being closed.

to quote HH

We are mature adults here. Not school kids who need to monitored every single second

But having known RVRji personally, i did not expect such a "crude" posting.
I am sorry but you have let me down....

Until i get back to proper access, i hope common sense prevails.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

"We are mature adults here. Not school kids"

(who need to take back words, or apologise, to indulge in nursing egos. I request praveen not to come with a lock here either. Sooner or later things will be back to normal.)

"And we will learn to grow up."

please read the head and tail of this mail!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

"We are mature adults here. Not school kids"

(who need to take back words, or apologise, to indulge in nursing egos. I request praveen not to come with a lock here either. Sooner or later things will be back to normal.)

"And we will learn to grow up."

Please read the head and tail of this mail again!

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Smt VR ji,
Hopefully i will be growing up at age 80 also if am alive until then....age, i suppose is no barrier to growing up.
Anyways, happy deepavali and hope you enjoy your day ahead.
Regards.

 

[Nara]

Please read the head and tail of this mail again!

Dear Mrs. VR, for a little levity in this otherwise unpleasant thread -- the initiator had very good intentions, but got hijacked -- this is my very problem and my wife is on my case, I am a mature adult and I have not stopped growing, both what is on my head (not the stuff in the inside), and the girth -- these are the only two things growing for me even though I am told I am a mature adult, growing and growing.

Cheers!

 

[suresoo]

SATYAM BRUYAT PRIYUM BRUYATH NA BRUYATH SATYAM APRIYAM
PRIYAM CHA NANRUTHAM BRUYAT ESHA DHARMAH SANATHANA

She gave me the following meaning in English:

ONLY SPEAK THE TRUTH THAT IS PLEASANT TO OTHERS
DO NOT SPEAK THE TRUTH THAT MIGHT BE UNPLEASANT TO OTHERS
NEVER SPEAK UNTRUTH THAT IS PLEASANT TO OTHERS
THIS IS THE PATH OF THE ETERNAL MORALITY
CALLED 'SANATHANA DHARMA'.
Let us all follow the spirit of Sanathana Dharma while giving our views.

Krishnamurthy Sir,

Today's 'School Kids' have learned how to carry forward the good things of yesterday and merge it with the reality of today. I wish them all the Good Luck.

Its the Mature Adults (learning to grow up) who are stuck in the past.

thanks,

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. Happy Hindu,

Till today I was under the impression that H.H.stood for His Highness
(Her Highness also perhaps).

I don't follow some threads zealously. So when I saw H.H. in some places,
I attributed it to the 'one and only' Mr. Nara!

But now the truth has dawned on me!

When we stop growing vertically, we start growing horizontally.
That is perfectly O.K.

What actually amused me were the words 'we will LEARN to grow up.'

Let us all Keep learning, growing and evolving everyday!

Thanks for your good wishes. I hope you too have a wonderful day every day and not just only today!

with Season's greetings and warm regards,
V.R.