Are we Brahmins shrinking in quality, uniqueness and number?

[bsnlmouli]

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Dear friends,

Are we elders not responsible for the decay and shrinkage of our community? I think many of us are grandfathers or are on the verge of becoming one. Unfortunately, we are nowhere near the 3rd ashrama (vaanaprastham) and absolutely not in sight of the 4th ashrama (sanyasa). We have not renounced our thirst for material objects, politics, bragging about our erudition, and so on and so forth.

Have we developed true appetite for Raama Naama? Are our houses reverberating with divine chanting? Do we go to temples daily? Do we get up during brahma muhurtham? Do we wear dhoti and lead a simple life? Do we exhibit and exuberate simplicity in our attitude?

I wish all of us reflect on these and come up with useful contributions and some workable solutions to the problems enumerated. And, I welcome elders to guide us in the right path.

Pranams to all.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

After two years in the forum you still have this kind of a doubt.

Of course we are dwindling in number!

Thanks to the inter-caste, inter-religious and international marriages.

Decay has set in when we started to ape the westerners.

Uniqueness disappeared when we started hoarding property.

A TRUE Brahmin must possess only knowledge and not wealth!

If such a life is still possible today, we can strive to achieve it.

Otherwise we will only be wasting time talking about the impossible.

 

[prasad1]

Unfortunately, we are nowhere near the 3rd ashrama (vaanaprastham) and absolutely not in sight of the 4th ashrama (sanyasa). We have not renounced our thirst for material objects, politics, bragging about our erudition, and so on and so forth.

If we are in traditional Ashrams, what are we doing in this forum?

Have we developed true appetite for Raama Naama? Are our houses reverberating with divine chanting? Do we go to temples daily? Do we get up during brahma muhurtham? Do we wear dhoti and lead a simple life? Do we exhibit and exuberate simplicity in our attitude?

Ok, If that is the ideal, what if that is not the goal?

If the ideal is to leave the worldly possession, so that your wards can get on with your accumulated wealth, may be that is not such an great idea. I agree that we should reduce our craving for material wealth. We can live in this world and lead the life you want. We need to find the style of life we want to lead, and not expect others to lead our style of life. So we need not chide others for their life style (my POV).

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear friends,

Are we elders not responsible for the decay and shrinkage of our community? ...........

Dear Sir,

This is your first post in forum after two years of registration! Your profile shows no activity at all!


You have shown the way an elderly brahmin should live and wish that all the elders will follow it.

Each one has to decide the way to live. We can not expect everyone to get up early, wear a vEshti,

go to temple and do the 'japam' through out the day! Most of the brahmins have changed to other

varNAs by the jobs they have been doing!


Simple living and high thinking is a personal choice, imho! Thank you.

 

[sangom]

Dear friends,

Are we elders not responsible for the decay and shrinkage of our community? I think many of us are grandfathers or are on the verge of becoming one. Unfortunately, we are nowhere near the 3rd ashrama (vaanaprastham) and absolutely not in sight of the 4th ashrama (sanyasa). We have not renounced our thirst for material objects, politics, bragging about our erudition, and so on and so forth.

Have we developed true appetite for Raama Naama? Are our houses reverberating with divine chanting? Do we go to temples daily? Do we get up during brahma muhurtham? Do we wear dhoti and lead a simple life? Do we exhibit and exuberate simplicity in our attitude?

I wish all of us reflect on these and come up with useful contributions and some workable solutions to the problems enumerated. And, I welcome elders to guide us in the right path.

Pranams to all.

Shri mouli,

We elders are not responsible for the decay in our community. Vaanaprastha is an ashram which is more a state of mind and it can be practised even while living in a metro town in a posh apartment complex, etc. But the real problem is that most of us are unable to overcome our worldly attachments.

Chanting Raamanaama all the time, daily visit to one or many temples, getting up during the "braahma" muhoortham daily (and not sleeping or taking a nap during the day time - this is also equally important as advised by our sastras), etc., will not imho make us better quality brahmins. Simplicity is a very relative term and I feel that, by and large, most retired people will not be able to afford lavish lifestyles, except a very few extremely lucky ones.

Brahmin has been so to say, "defined" in our scriptures as one who dwells on the "Brahman" - the supreme reality. External showiness like chanting Raamanaama all the time, daily visit to one or many temples, getting up during the "braahma" muhoortham daily (and not sleeping or taking a nap during the day time - this is also equally important as advised by our sastras), doing elaborate daily poojas, etc., will not lead one to any enquiry about "Brahman" but constant and deep mediatation such as what Ramana did for some days together (without doing even sandhyavandanam, perhaps) will only take you in the proper path. So, for us to become a bit more brahminic in the true sense, what is needed is a constant striving to find out "what is the truth? What is "I"? What happens to this "I" after death?" etc. In short,

कस्त्वम् कोऽहं कुत आयातः
का मे जननी को मे तातः ।
इति परिभावय सर्वं असारम्
विश्वं त्यक्त्वा स्वप्नविचारम् ॥

(kastvam ko:'haṃ kuta āyātaḥ
kā me jananī ko me tātaḥ |
iti paribhāvaya sarvaṃ asāram
viśvaṃ tyaktvā svapnavicāram ||)


Who are you? Whom am I? Whence have I come? Who is my mother? Who, my father? Thus enquire, leaving aside the entire world which is comparable to a dream, and is essenceless.
(http://www.kamakoti.org/shlokas/kshlok19.htm)

This alone will change us brahmins into better brahmins I think.

Smt VR madam has observed that "A TRUE Brahmin must possess only knowledge and not wealth!". I think possessing wealth is not the problem but being possessed by wealth and not being inclined to go after the kind of knowledge explained above is the real problem.

 

[Raji Ram]

ThiruvaLLuvar says an easy way to be a good person!

"மழித்தலும் நீட்டலும் வேண்டா உலகம்
பழித்தது ஒழித்து விடின்." - 280

(mazhiththalum neettalum vEndA ulagam
pazhiththathu ozhiththu vidin.)

There is no need to shave the head or grow a beard - that is to become apparently a 'sanyAsi' -

if a man abstains from everything that the world shuns! Do the brahmins follow this? :noidea:

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

அந்தணன்!!!

காலையில் ஜப தபங்கள் இத்யாதி;
மாலையில் Gala பார்ட்டி இத்யாதி.

பூணூல் அணிந்தால் சாக பக்ஷிணி;
பூணூல் அழித்தால் மாமிச பக்ஷிணி.

ஊருக்குத் தெரிந்து ஒரு மனைவி;
ஊர் ஊருக்கு ஒவ்வொரு மனைவி.

என்ன தான் செய்யவில்லை அந்தணன்?
அஜாமிளன் காலத்தில் ஆதியில் இருந்தே!

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri bsnlmouli Ji,

You open your post with a 'we', and so I assume you are an 'elder'.

I guess, I am one, just because of my age, which is pushing towards 66.

Sir, in my humble opinion, you are barking on the wrong tree.

Our 'Brahmin' culture and way of life has been no more in it's form from 200 years ago. We are not 'those' Brahmins anymore.

If just observing "Vaanaprastha', going to temples and above all wearing a dhothi and leading a 'simple' life can define a 'Brahmin', then let me point out to you how sad it is to define a 'Brahmin'. Please go to the Kanchi Kamakoti website and find Maha Periaval's 'Hindu Dharma' chapters posted there and find a particular topic 'A day in the life of a Brahmin'. There in, the Guru describes what a traditional Brahmin did in a day - and this will open your eyes.

We are not 'Brahmins' anymore, in it's traditional definition. Who we are, is a fragment of what we have been in the past, without any clue of our past role, reduced to being defined as a people wearing dhothi!

We carry a rich tradition and our new task is how we put that to use in current times of a new brave secular world, where castes should not matter.

Let us teach our youngsters about humanity, humility, equality, excellence, good things from tradition, timeless values as described by our scriptures, especially the Vedanta and most of all, love for all living beings.

If we do that, in my opinion, what you are looking for will be accomplished.

Regards,
KRS

Dear friends,

Are we elders not responsible for the decay and shrinkage of our community? I think many of us are grandfathers or are on the verge of becoming one. Unfortunately, we are nowhere near the 3rd ashrama (vaanaprastham) and absolutely not in sight of the 4th ashrama (sanyasa). We have not renounced our thirst for material objects, politics, bragging about our erudition, and so on and so forth.

Have we developed true appetite for Raama Naama? Are our houses reverberating with divine chanting? Do we go to temples daily? Do we get up during brahma muhurtham? Do we wear dhoti and lead a simple life? Do we exhibit and exuberate simplicity in our attitude?

I wish all of us reflect on these and come up with useful contributions and some workable solutions to the problems enumerated. And, I welcome elders to guide us in the right path.

Pranams to all.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

from#8 by Sri. K. R. S.

We are not 'Brahmins' anymore, in it's traditional definition. Who we are, is a fragment of what we have been in the past, without any clue of our past role, reduced to being defined as a people wearing dhothi!

We carry a rich tradition and our new task is how we put that to use in current times of a new brave secular world, where castes should not matter.

Let us teach our youngsters about humanity, humility, equality, excellence, good things from tradition, timeless values as described by our scriptures, especially the Vedanta and most of all, love for all living beings.


அக்ஷர லக்ஷம் தருவேன் opcorn:

அது என்னிடம் இருந்தால் :clap2:

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Sis,
I think you have some problem in using 'Reply With Quote'! :ballchain:

P.S: It took me a few seconds to realize that you are quoting K R S sir's post! :decision:

 

[கால பைரவன்]

"மழித்தலும் நீட்டலும் வேண்டா உலகம்
பழித்தது ஒழித்து விடின்." - 280

இப்படி எழுதிய திருவள்ளுவருக்கே கொண்டையும் தாடியும் வைத்து விட்டது யாரோ?

அப்படியென்றால் திருக்குறளை பரப்புவதற்கே இதுவெல்லாம் தேவைப்படுகிற்து என்று ஆகிறதே?

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

இப்படி எழுதிய திருவள்ளுவருக்கே கொண்டையும் தாடியும் வைத்து விட்டது யாரோ?

அப்படியென்றால் திருக்குறளை பரப்புவதற்கே இதுவெல்லாம் தேவைப்படுகிற்து என்று ஆகிறதே?

கொண்டையும், தாடியும்!

எனக்கு ஏன் இது தோன்றவே இல்லை?

யாருக்குமே இது தோன்றவே இல்லை?

வித்தியாசமாக சிந்திக்க உள்ளார் இவரும்! :clap2:

பார்த்தவர் யார் வள்ளுவரையும் வாசுகியையும்?

கொண்டையும் தாடியும் இடைச் செருகலோ???

மண்டை இருந்தால் கொண்டை தானே வளரும்!!!

தாவாக்கட்டை இருந்தால் தாடி தானே வளரும்!!!

தானே வளர்ந்தனவோ? சிற்பியின் கற்பனையோ? :noidea:

 

[Brahmanyan]

Dear Sri bsnlmouli Ji,

You open your post with a 'we', and so I assume you are an 'elder'.

I guess, I am one, just because of my age, which is pushing towards 66.

Sir, in my humble opinion, you are barking on the wrong tree.

Our 'Brahmin' culture and way of life has been no more in it's form from 200 years ago. We are not 'those' Brahmins anymore.

If just observing "Vaanaprastha', going to temples and above all wearing a dhothi and leading a 'simple' life can define a 'Brahmin', then let me point out to you how sad it is to define a 'Brahmin'. Please go to the Kanchi Kamakoti website and find Maha Periaval's 'Hindu Dharma' chapters posted there and find a particular topic 'A day in the life of a Brahmin'. There in, the Guru describes what a traditional Brahmin did in a day - and this will open your eyes.

We are not 'Brahmins' anymore, in it's traditional definition. Who we are, is a fragment of what we have been in the past, without any clue of our past role, reduced to being defined as a people wearing dhothi!

We carry a rich tradition and our new task is how we put that to use in current times of a new brave secular world, where castes should not matter.

Let us teach our youngsters about humanity, humility, equality, excellence, good things from tradition, timeless values as described by our scriptures, especially the Vedanta and most of all, love for all living beings.

If we do that, in my opinion, what you are looking for will be accomplished.

Regards,
KRS

Dear Sri KRS.,

You said it. " We are not 'Brahmins' anymore, in it's traditional definition."
Brahmins have lost their Varnasrama Dharma long long ago.. Except for a few families we do not train ourselves even in Vedic Studies . The pedigree of "gothras" astutely guarded and developed for generations has been givenup in recent times due to various reasons. What is left with us just a label given in birth due to Brahmin parentage.

Well, I am amused to see some of our rituals that are followed without understanding the significance or purpose, which has no relevance in today's world. When I point out some, my wife calls me an atheist and hypocrite. She may be correct. I told her I am neither of the two but a confused man. Hence I do not want to enter into discussions on the same. I just want to be a good human being till end.

However, As you have rightly said nothing prevents us to follow simple disciplines to become good human beings and right living as enunciated in Yama, Niyamas, or atleast follow what ever possible out of them.

I wish to add a few words about uniqueness. Uniqueness is shaped by circumstances and opportunity that an individual gets. Nothing special to any one because of birth.

Warm Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[Raji Ram]

இப்படி எழுதிய திருவள்ளுவருக்கே கொண்டையும் தாடியும் வைத்து விட்டது யாரோ?

அப்படியென்றால் திருக்குறளை பரப்புவதற்கே இதுவெல்லாம் தேவைப்படுகிற்து என்று ஆகிறதே?

நண்பரே! நல்ல கேள்வி கேட்டீர்கள்!

இங்கு 'நீட்டல்' என்பது சாதாரண நீண்ட முடியையும், தாடியையும் குறிக்காது.

சன்னியாசிகளின் பராமரிக்காத ஜடா முடியையும், சிக்குப் பிடித்த தாடியையும் குறிக்கும்!

 

[Raji Ram]

சன்னியாசிகளின் பராமரிக்காத ஜடா முடியும், சிக்குப் பிடித்த தாடியும்!

Picture courtesy: Google images.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Brahmanyan Ji Sir,

Please add me to that list of 'confused'!

I have no issues with those who whole heartedly immerse themselves in the Purva Mimamsa rituals - even Guru Shankara while arguing against the practice as an end all activity, did not throw them away. He said that they are a means to an end, viz., for a discipline that steadies the mind and purifies, which is the first step towards knowledge.

The problem I have today with following rituals, is that, when I look at folks who are known to me and who are practicing such rituals, the majority are not basically good human beings. They cheat and lie and are corrupt. I am not saying, mind you that all of them are like that, but a solid majority are. This list includes members of my immediate family.

Why are they then doing the rituals? The only answer I can come up with is that these folks believe that such practices will personally benefit them and their families in material terms. Nothing to do with helping the society, which was the only reason the concept of Brahmins came about, and not even for attaining Moksha, which is a noble personal goal.

This is why I am turned off of practicing Purva Mimamsa.

But then, sometimes, I wonder. My friend who is agnostic, but born to a devout Catholic family in the US, still attends church every Sunday. When I asked him why, he said 'who knows what is true when it comes to faith? I am just covering my bases, just in case God has this attendance as a precondition to entering the so called heaven! '

Such is life!

Regards,
KRS

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

நண்பரே! நல்ல கேள்வி கேட்டீர்கள்!

இங்கு 'நீட்டல்' என்பது சாதாரண நீண்ட முடியையும், தாடியையும் குறிக்காது.

சன்னியாசிகளின் பராமரிக்காத ஜடா முடியையும், சிக்குப் பிடித்த தாடியையும் குறிக்கும்!

உலகத்தையே வேண்டாம் என்று தூக்கிப் போட்டவர்கள் :hand:

தலை முடியையும், தாடியையும் எதற்காகப் பராமரிப்பார்கள்???

 

[Raji Ram]

உலகத்தையே வேண்டாம் என்று தூக்கிப் போட்டவர்கள்

தலை முடியையும், தாடியையும் எதற்காகப் பராமரிப்பார்கள்???

அப்படி உலகை வேண்டாமென ஒதுக்கத் தேவையே இல்லை!

உலகம் பழிப்பதைச் செய்யாமல் இருந்தாலே போதும் என்பதுதான் வள்ளுவரின் வாக்கு! :angel:

 

[Muvishy]

The replies in the forum to the querry raised by bsnlmouli, makes interesting reading. Each view is different and is backased on the perspective of each. Most of the members of the forum might have seen Enge Brahmanan by Cho, which was telecast on Jaya TV, a year or so back, and I did see it, though I may not agree with all that was depicted, I do agree with most. I have not done deep study into vedas, nor am I a very religious person, nor do I practice all rituals which are undertaken by brahmins, mostly without knowing the basis or purpose behind these.
There has been a vast change in our life, from the days around 300 years back, when our forefathers used to live in villages and knew only reading vedas and practicing religious ceremonies etc. as they were taught. The world is not static, and we are constantly evolving, as may be seen in the life style of all of us so called brahmins. My father came to Maharashtra some where in 1920s, and started working in railways in a very low position and hence we have become for all purposes maharashtrians. Like me there are thousands who have come out of villages of TN. and hence have adopted to the situation. Our children and their children do not understand nor do they care about such thoughts as brahminism. We have accepted western education, aping the life style of west, and have taken to all modern gadgets including computer, and internet, which enables us to raise such trivial issues. Instead of lamenting on such issues, we should think how we can preserve our knowledge of vedas, upanishads, and other ancient scriptures, and also question many rituals which have no significance to either what is written in any of the scriptures, but evolved just by practice.
We cannot be static in this fast changing world and hence let us try to adjust to what is happening around us, accept our children getting married to whomever they like, irrespective of caste and creed.
I do not know how many may agree with my views, but there may be some who do think like me.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Sri bsnlmouli Sir. I should thank you for this thread though it happened to be your first thread. I am an ‘L’ Board member of this Forum. But the responses to your thread from Veterans are really thought provoking. IMO What is important is getting the best from these Mahanubhavulu (viz.the Members, Senior Members, Veterans, Senior Moderator,etc.etc). I tend to change my habit of reading the Dailies in the morning to going thro’ the postings of this Forum which I enjoy. Now news paper became my second priority. Keep it up.


P.S: IMO though there is no teasing/ragging thing here, beginers need to be more careful while posting their opinion. Natural, cos you deal with big guns.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Dear Sri Brahmanyan Ji Sir,

Please add me to that list of 'confused'!

I have no issues with those who whole heartedly immerse themselves in the Purva Mimamsa rituals - even Guru Shankara while arguing against the practice as an end all activity, did not throw them away. He said that they are a means to an end, viz., for a discipline that steadies the mind and purifies, which is the first step towards knowledge.

The problem I have today with following rituals, is that, when I look at folks who are known to me and who are practicing such rituals, the majority are not basically good human beings. They cheat and lie and are corrupt. I am not saying, mind you that all of them are like that, but a solid majority are. This list includes members of my immediate family.

Why are they then doing the rituals? The only answer I can come up with is that these folks believe that such practices will personally benefit them and their families in material terms. Nothing to do with helping the society, which was the only reason the concept of Brahmins came about, and not even for attaining Moksha, which is a noble personal goal.

This is why I am turned off of practicing Purva Mimamsa.

But then, sometimes, I wonder. My friend who is agnostic, but born to a devout Catholic family in the US, still attends church every Sunday. When I asked him why, he said 'who knows what is true when it comes to faith? I am just covering my bases, just in case God has this attendance as a precondition to entering the so called heaven! '

Such is life!

Regards,
KRS

Dear Sri KRS,


Wonderful exposition. I am on the same wavelength with you about rituals. When my conscience pricks of a guilt due to an action that I have done or when I am unable to come out of a critical situation created by me I search for an escape route to transfer the burden. The rituals help me in this regard, which we call "parihara". Whether It works or not, It gives me immense psychological relief. If some one says that I should go to a particular Temple or place and perform Puja in a particular mode to get the relief, I do it with implicit faith. As you know faith is a strong belief or trust, it need not be supported by rational or proven evidence. Nowadays I find people run around to holy places and Temples what is called as "parihara kshetras". Surprisingly, thanks to the extensive media exposure, these "Pariharasthalas" started for Planetary transits have come to the level of birth stars. Simple Puja rituals are mixed with tantric rituals or worships. Of course all these have a price to pay. Other day some one has gone to a popular Temple in Tanjore District in search of "Varahi" ! There is no end for this.

Warm Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[renuka]

I hope members dont take me wrong by saying this but among all the types of Brahmins I have been exposed too..mostly Tamil Brahmins are the ones who are most worried about shrinking in numbers and qualities etc.

Other Brahmins seem "cool" and not too concerned about this.

I really wonder why??

 

[Raji Ram]

Sri bsnlmouli Sir. I should thank you for this thread though it happened to be your first thread. ........

Dear Sir,

I wish Sri Mouli too participates in the discussion here!

He has vanished after his very first post!

 

[Raji Ram]

I hope members dont take me wrong by saying this but among all the types of Brahmins I have been exposed too..mostly Tamil Brahmins are the ones who are most worried about shrinking in numbers and qualities etc.

Other Brahmins seem "cool" and not too concerned about this.

I really wonder why??

Dear Renu,

We tambrams are a sort of nosy!

 

[Raji Ram]

This is something really serious!

Most of the tambrams do not like to follow the traditional way of life. They think that doing the nithya karmAs

is a burden in their routine. The girls are scared of madi and AchAram and want to be free from all these! I too

have had many scary experiences with the strict madi, AchAram in Ram's village house. While searching for a

groom or bride, the horoscope plays a very important role and no two astrologers agree to each other! This

might be the reason for many I C and I R weddings happening in tambram society! This also is a main cause of

worry, because after two generations, it might be difficult to find the so-called pure tambram descendants! :spy: