Atman and its adjectives

[nachi naga]

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If jagat is mithyam and mithyam is unreal/untrue, how is jagat real then?

Adi-Shankara while stressing the sole reality of Brahman, did not
undermine the phenomenal world or the multiplicity of Gods in the
scriptures.According to the Advaita Vedanta, the True Self is Brahman (Divine Creator).

Brahman is the ‘I’ of ‘Who Am I?’

Advaita includes both worldly and transcendental
experience.

Adi-Shankara views that the bodies are manifold but the separate bodies have the one Divine in them.

Adi-Shankara’s theology maintains that seeing the self where there is no self causes spiritual ignorance or avidya. One should learn to distinguish knowledge (jnana) from avidya to realize the True Self or Brahman.

Bhajagovindam Bhajagovindam
Govindam Bhaja Muudhamate
Sampraapte Sannihite Kaale
Nahi Nahi Rakshati Dukrijnkarane.

Brahman - literally, it means one which expands

simply named this expected fundamental entity as Brahman.

Satyam - one which is eternal, changeless and existent.

Jagat (Universe/World)- Ja + Ga

Ja - jaayate (to arise, originate, born)

ga - gamana: - ga - (one which goes/moves or changes)

It means, one which is born (janana) out of gati (speed/change) is Jagata: That is Universe is said to have come into existent due out of constant change.

Mithya - has word root as 'Mith'.

to associate with; to unite; to hurt; to understand; to wrangle; to grasp

"That one which originates/exists due to constant change (jagat) is associated with/United with/being tended by (mithyA) Brahman which is changeless existence (satya) - Brahma Satyam, jagat MithyA..."

If Mithya is taken as United, then a person is advaitin (brahman and jagat are united and satya). This is in sync with Sarvam Khalu Idam Brahma (everything that exists is Brahman)

If mithya is takes as association, then the person is vishishtadvaitin. (brahman is satya and jagat is associated with satya, but not completely satya).

If mithya is taken as wrangled (to tend), then, he becomes a dvaitin (brahman is satya, jagat is being wrangled/tended/herded (by brahman)). Here, World is being herded by the separate herder that is God.

Thus we can see, differential interpretation of this phrase by Shankara eventually ends up in conjuring vastly different world views towards life and universe.Guru Padam Smarami.

Source:Kamakoti.org


nachi naga.

 

[renuka]

Dear sister renu, I did notice the quotation marks. So, do we then have three states, (i) satyam/immutable, (ii) asat/non-existent, and (iii) things that are real but changing, like clay becoming a pot?

Given this, then, are we to understand that in "brahman satyam, jagath mityam", jagath is real, but it is not satyam only because it changes?

Cheers, anna

Dear anna,

I would rather say we have 2 states.

• Sat
• Asat

Asat in this context does not mean Non Existant but Existant till proven Unreal.(and this includes things that are changing..like clay becoming pot)


Mithya or delusion implies a condition which, until inquiry, appears real but, on inquiry, is known to be unreal.


Non existant in the literal sense is like the famous sanskrit line:
Kha Pushpa (flowers in the sky)


For now I will stick to Asato Ma Sad Gamaya

renu

 

[Nara]

If jagat is mithyam and mithyam is unreal/untrue, how is jagat real then?

According to Advaitam, jagat is unreal. The only reality, according to the Advaitins, is a nirguna brahmin who is bereft of any attributes whatsoever. This is so far out that that they devised something called vyavaharika satyam, for which there is no support in the shasthras from which vedantees derive their legitimacy.

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

... Mithya or delusion implies a condition which, until inquiry, appears real but, on inquiry, is known to be unreal.

My dear sister Renu, the last thing I want to do is to disagree with my dear sister, whom I know to be a wonderful person and a person with not just rote knowledge, but critical understanding. If on inquiry you find something to be unreal, then it is unreal, i.e. jagath is unreal. This is something I can't agree, but can have a spirited and friendly debate about. Your anna....

 

[renuka]

My dear sister Renu, the last thing I want to do is to disagree with my dear sister, whom I know to be a wonderful person and a person with not just rote knowledge, but critical understanding. If on inquiry you find something to be unreal, then it is unreal, i.e. jagath is unreal. This is something I can't agree, but can have a spirited and friendly debate about. Your anna....

Dear anna,

Lots of things in this world are Real until Proven Unreal.
But this words of yours here I will want to hold on as Real forever.

renu

 

[tbs]

If jagat is mithyam and mithyam is unreal/untrue, how is jagat real then?

hi amala ji,
BRAHMA SATYAM.JAGAT MITHYAA, JIVO BRAHMAIVA NA APARAH...
this is moola mantra of advaitha...brahma eka eva satyam...
the only brahman is real....the world is illusion/maaya..
then jivatma and paramatma are same...this is the essence
of advaita vedanta....jagat is unreal...ever changing nature..
like rope looklike snake in night...but the rope is not snake...
it is called abhhaasa....like wise the jagat looklike real...it is abhaasa
here.....

regards
tbs

 

[RVR]

TBS sir,

I am unable to understand your statement that whatever is happening in this world is unreal. If it is so then why so much of problems, confusions etc. If everybody believes that the world is not real and maya, then why Lord Krishna is instigating Arjuna to fight a war to preserve Dharma.

I wish you elaborate further and explain in detail

All the best

 

[renuka]

Dear all,

This is just to share and not prove or disprove.

Tattavivekah kah? Aatma sathyam tadanyat sarvam mithyeti.

What is enquiry into the Truth?It is the firm conviction that the Self is real and all,other than That is unreal.

Real(Sat) is that which remains the same in all three periods of time.It does not get negated under any condition and from any standpoint.

Non-existence(Asat) is that which does not exist in all three periods of time.
A flower exist and so does the sky but Flowers in the sky can never be.

Just a note to forum members :
in the original text the example given was barren women and child...i am not to fond of that example as there are many causes of infertility,so i chose the flowers in the sky example.its neutral.

Unreal(Mithya) is that which cannot be defined as real or non existent.If a thing exists and is experienced but keeps changing,it is called unreal.
The world exists and is experienced but gets negated by time and experience hence Unreal.

Discrimination of the Self and the non Self

there are 2 aspects to life.
I(the experiencer of the world) and the world(the experienced).

The name,form,quality and experience of every object of the world changes but I(Self) the experiencer remains the same.

I(Self) is never absent but the world gets negated with every thought.Therefore I(Self) am real and all else is Unreal.

The method adopted by the masters to know the Self is called adhyaaropa-apavaada(negating the superimposition).

When the Non-Self is negated in its entirety what reamins is the Pure Self.


Taken from Tattva Bodhah
Sri AdiShankarachraya
commentary by Swami Tejomayananda
Chinmaya Mission

 

[RVR]

Human body is unreal which I accept because it undergoes changes and at the end when it is burnt, it become ashes.

Atman/Brahman is real and eternal -that is what scriptures says. One has to accept it if they believe in the scriptures.

Mind is neither real nor unreal. When the Atman/Brahman leaves the human body, where does the `mind' goes. It is neither physically visible when a person is alive nor operates in the body when a person dies.

Can anybody clarify

All the best

 

[tbs]

TBS sir,

I am unable to understand your statement that whatever is happening in this world is unreal. If it is so then why so much of problems, confusions etc. If everybody believes that the world is not real and maya, then why Lord Krishna is instigating Arjuna to fight a war to preserve Dharma.

I wish you elaborate further and explain in detail

All the best

hi RVR sir,
its very difficult to understand that the world is unreal for a lay man...but once we try to understand this world/nature/
dharma/duty/actions has limitations and its tool to achieve moksha
the ultimate reality...if a jaundice person see the whole world looklike
in yellow color..but it is not yellow...like this ajnani like us..think that
the world is real....likewise jaundice person...

regards
tbs

 

[saidevo]

namaste shrI RVR.

We can understand the unreality of the physical world by some lateral thinking.

Since our dreams are usually incongruous in their shapes and sights and scenes, it is easy for us to understand that our dream world is mAyA--illusion; and although a dream seems very real to us when we are in it, we can easily dismiss its vyavahArika sattA--practical, relative reality, since we always return to the waking state.

The reality of the world in our waking state is not only so accurate, concrete, and elaborate, but is identical to everyone of us, which is why we find it difficult to believe that it's all the play of mAyA shakti--power of illusion, specially when the reality it gives us lasts a lifetime, unlike a magician's show.

Yet the concrete reality of waking life is constantly rejected by us, because every night we return to a better state of existence: the suShupti--deep sleep. Ironically, although we are at peace and bliss in our deep sleep state that nourishes our soul and body, we prefer the waking state, perhaps because we cannot enter the deep sleep state at will.

Suppose we have the ability to enter into and get out of the deep sleep state at will. I bet many of us would do it many times a day and charge ourselves with the Self, just as we charge our mobile phones! At least I would do it, if only to escape temporarily the hullabaloo of waking existence.

We can use our intellect and imagination to find out the illusory nature of existence of our waking life; this could be a first step to understand nature of reality of our world and waking life, and get convinced about the need to seek a better state of existence.

Let us suppose that our eyes have a powerful, microscopic as well as telescopic sight that can be adjusted to focus different objects and their layers. This power at once changes the world around me! Instead of the computer screen and the keyboard, I see only kaleidoscopic patterns of particles and pulses and vibrations. I can see through walls and doors as well as of inside of every thing and person and being and yet focus at will to retain the shapes and sights and sounds of my waking life world.

What could be our experience with such a power of vision? That power surely lets us see the different levels of inner, physical reality of the objective world we live in, in our waking state, but how much would that reality appeal to us?

The first victim of such a power would be our sense of doership. Being only a swimmer in the vast waters of energy and microscopic matter around us, we can only cause some commotion, not influence or change the existing course or order, which would quickly re-establish itself.

The second, simultaneous victim would be the 'I', the sense of ego and personality. At the microscopic level of physical reality, I would find with my power of vision, that the I as I know of myself no longer exists--no body, brain or mind. I would still have my individuality in tact, because I am the observer, but then that I would be far removed from my ego and personality.

Since we can do nothing in that state, we can only watch, observe and wonder at the dance of matter and energy around us. As we do watch more and more, we would be drawn into it, and the observer would merge in the observed at the subtler levels, even as he/she was merged at the physical level.

If our intellect and imagination can give us so much of knowledge, which we know is the ultimate physical reality in the backdrop of the Science we are familiar with, what truer knowledge at the trans-physical and metaphysical levels can be obtained, by training our mind to use the inner eye?

TBS sir,

I am unable to understand your statement that whatever is happening in this world is unreal. If it is so then why so much of problems, confusions etc. If everybody believes that the world is not real and maya, then why Lord Krishna is instigating Arjuna to fight a war to preserve Dharma.

I wish you elaborate further and explain in detail

All the best

 

[renuka]

Human body is unreal which I accept because it undergoes changes and at the end when it is burnt, it become ashes.

Atman/Brahman is real and eternal -that is what scriptures says. One has to accept it if they believe in the scriptures.

Mind is neither real nor unreal. When the Atman/Brahman leaves the human body, where does the `mind' goes. It is neither physically visible when a person is alive nor operates in the body when a person dies.

Can anybody clarify

All the best

Dear RVRJi,
Mind is existent but transient hence Unreal.
Before that let me define Mind.
What we loosely call Mind is actually made up of 4 components and present in the Subtle body.Its 4 components are:

• Manas(thoughts in a state of indecision)
• Buddhi(thoughts in a state of decision)
• Chitta(repository of memory)
• Ahamkara(I am the doer..feeling..usually called Ego in most text)

As long the web of Maya is still around us..Mind exists.
When Maya has been overcome even Mind(all its 4 components) will cease to exist.

Now coming to 2nd half of your question.

"When the Atman/Brahman leaves the human body, where does the `mind' goes. It is neither physically visible when a person is alive nor operates in the body when a person dies."

Dear RVRji,

The Atman/Brahman never left the human body.Brahman is all pervading and is present in animate and inanimate objects too.
When one attains Moksha...one sheds all bodies and pure Atman is revealed.
Atman had never left anyone at anytime.
Hence Sanathana(Eternal)

When a person dies..the mind is still encased in the subtle body and still very much in operation.
Mind is still there sans the gross body.

The mind is not visible to our naked eyes but its functions,application can be experienced.

There is a saying that goes..One's mind needs to die(Die Mind) in order to obtain the Diamond of Samadhi.

 

[tbs]

Dear RVRJi,
Mind is existent but transient hence Unreal.
Before that let me define Mind.
What we loosely call Mind is actually made up of 4 components and present in the Subtle body.Its 4 components are:

• Manas(thoughts in a state of indecision)
• Buddhi(thoughts in a state of decision)
• Chitta(repository of memory)
• Ahamkara(I am the doer..feeling..usually called Ego in most text)

As long the web of Maya is still around us..Mind exists.
When Maya has been overcome even Mind(all its 4 components) will cease to exist.

Now coming to 2nd half of your question.

"When the Atman/Brahman leaves the human body, where does the `mind' goes. It is neither physically visible when a person is alive nor operates in the body when a person dies."

Dear RVRji,

The Atman/Brahman never left the human body.Brahman is all pervading and is present in animate and inanimate objects too.
When one attains Moksha...one sheds all bodies and pure Atman is revealed.
Atman had never left anyone at anytime.
Hence Sanathana(Eternal)

When a person dies..the mind is still encased in the subtle body and still very much in operation.
Mind is still there sans the gross body.

The mind is not visible to our naked eyes but its functions,application can be experienced.

There is a saying that goes..One's mind needs to die(Die Mind) in order to obtain the Diamond of Samadhi.

hi renu ji
u renu ji
u remember this verse...MANOBUDDHYCHITHAHANKARO....
i think...this is sri sankaracharya's shivoham shivoham...
the first verse.....

regards
tbs

 

[renuka]

hi renu ji
u renu ji
u remember this verse...MANOBUDDHYCHITHAHANKARO....
i think...this is sri sankaracharya's shivoham shivoham...
the first verse.....

regards
tbs

dear TbsJi,


Mano budhya ahankaar chittah ni naham
Na 'ch shotra jeeveh na 'ch ghraan netrey
Na 'chavyo m bhumi r na tejo na vaayu
Chid-a-anand roopah shivoham shivoham

 

[Dr.S.Ramanathan]

Dear Sri .RVR,
We have to import the Body-Mind-Intellect concept here. To the extent the mind becomes introvert and gets established in the Self within,the extrovert Vasanas for the objects get reduced. When the mind becomes totally introvert, all the vasanas are removed, there is no agitation of the mind. When the mind becomes absolutely pure and transcends even the Satwic vasanas, the individual has gone beyond Satwa and the mind ceases to exist.
In the case of a lesser mortal, I frankly dont know the answer. I presume it goes with the subtle body.
Incidentally, my posting of 16th at 3.50.PM, has apparently not been studied by the readers, since I do not see any comments or observations on it, particularly who posed those questions.
Regards and Respects,
Ramanathan.

 

[RVR]

I have started thinking about mind, thoughts and nirguna samadhi etc.

I am just reading Ramana Maharishi's answers

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/downloads/downloads.htm

The book `Who Am I?' has lot of answers

I shall join this discussions after reading and understanding the same

All the best

 

[nachi naga]

Adi-Shankara says,

Is Chitta (चित्त) same as Maanas(मानस) or mind?

No... it is something which transcends mind... Perception is linked with ego ("I") OR ahamkar(अहंकार) OR aatman(आत्मा)... Without sense of 'I', there can be no perception... So, looking closely, chitta(चित्त) is that feature which enables perception, that is 'I' or the Aatman(आत्मा)... Chetana(चेतना) is power of perception which comes from 'Chitta'(चित्त) and enables us to 'Chit'(चित्) or to percieve.


I am eternal and changeless, and lack all the qualities and form. I envelope all forms from all sides and am beyond the cognition of sense-organs. I am always in the state of equality — there is no liberation (Mukti) nor Bondage (Bandha). I am the eternal bliss state, I am Shiv, the Auspicious.

nachi naga.

 

[renuka]

ATMAN AND ITS ADJECTIVES​

NOTE : Please disregard the earlier post with the same subject and matter. There was a bit of a problem in the copying of the table within the post.

There have been many interesting contributions from the readers, Particulalrly Sri Saideo, Dr. Renuka ,Ms.Amala, Prof. Nara, Mr, Nachinaga and others,in this thread. I am personally benefited by many of them.

Ms. Amala has raised a pertinent question that, if Atma is Brahman and is Nirguna, how can it have adjectives? Dr. Renuka supports her fully. Even while mentioning Brahman, we mention Saguna Brahman ( with good properties) and Nirguna Brahman (with no properties). If we have to appreciate something totally unattached, we have to know what is attachment and how to get detached from them. If we talk about high philosophy to a common man , who understands nothing beyond his daily routine, it will all go beyond his head, he would show no interest in what is being talked about.. That is why Lord Krishna in Bhagwad Geeta, starts talking to Arjuna from Karma yoga and then raises him to the higher levels of philosophy. The idol worship in Hinduism started with this basis and slowly developed when an enlightened man need no longer go to a temple and start meditating on Brahman from where he is.
Similarly, in Sahasranama,the word Atma, either alone or with different adjectives appears 24 times to reinstate the Pragatitatwas and again on the 25th and 26th time as Ekatman and Atmayoni to explain the nonduality and selfgeneration without a second, as the 25th and 26th Tatwas.
It is interesting to observe that the different adjectives are so chosen and arranged from the first sloka to the 106th, as to explain first that the Atman or soul is different from life or body, through different levels of statements like,”Atman is free from all bondages, beyond the three gunas,omnipresent etc” to a final statement that there is only one Atma and that there is no material cause other than himself for the universe.. This is how He elevates a man in Geeta and in Vishnusahasranama from a man of Action to the Yoga of liberation by renunciation and that is the beauty of both these scriptures, making Bhagwad Geeta ( of which Vishnusahasranamam is a part ), as one of the Prastanatrayas by Adisankara. We can see here the Dwaitam and Vasishtadwaitam intertwined in some of the Namas until it finally culminates in Adwaitam,”Ekatman”.Thus, there is no quarrel between the three schools of thought but only an elevation gradually in the level of understanding Self or Brahman.
In Vivekachoodamani, Adisankara beautifully explains this in three slokas, 237 to 240 and the adjectives again are not really adjectives but merely an explanatory word. He says that only great sages see this Truth in which there are no distinctions between the Knower, the Knowledge and the Known. I may rather hesitatingly dare to say that he has gone even beyond the three Mahavakyas when he declared PRAGNAM BRAHMA.- THIS AWARENESS IS REALITY.,the Aitereya Upanishad.
Vedanta introduces a maze (or mace ?) of words to describe this. Upanishads explain it in a comparatively comprehendable form, by a set of terminologies evolved by these rushies. .Consciousness functioning through an individual entity is called the Microcosm (Vyashti) and that functioning through the whole cosmos is called the Macrocosm (Samashti). (Swami Chinmayananda in Viveka cho odamani)

Microcosm


Macrocosm​

1.A gross body functioning is called Vishnu and because it expresses itself In the waking condition, is called JAGRAT (Swami Chinmayananda calls this Viswam)
The Supreme consciousness functioning through the aggregate of all the gross bodies Is called VIRAT. This is the cosmic form of JAGRAT.
The Supreme consciousness functioning through the individual subtle body is known As Taijasa. It expresses itself in the dream Condition and is called Swapna
The Supreme consciousness functioning
through the aggregate of all subtle bodies is called Hiranyagarbha, the Creator, Swapna State.
.The Supreme self functioning through the Causal body, the Vasanas, the nonapprehension Of Reality, the Avidya is called Prajna. It is Called Sushupti.
The same Atman functioning through the aggregate of all causal bodies ( the nonapprehension of Reality), the Maya Is called Iswara, in Sushupti.





This distinction by Swami Chinmayananda may help in understanding things a little better, Swapna is real as long as one is dreaming and remains in that state and becomes unreal only when he wakes up. The famous rope and snake theory is as much real today and is not meant only for the illiterate or uninitiated. When we walk on the road on a dark night without a torch .and see a ropelike object across, our mind immediately gets alerted
and slows down our walk until we are reassured.


Dr. Renuka has mentioned about Astronauts crossing the gravity fields can not be codsidered to have attained Moksha, if we say that Atman which had crossed the gravity field may have attained Moksha. Astronauts are not free floating and are very much under partial control under gravity and hence can not be compared. I think that is where Viswamitra failed in his attempt to send Trisanku to Swarga. He had apparently mastered the technique of crossing the gravity field of earth but did not know how to enter the gravity field of the other planet or whatever it is , called Swarga, and the result is Trisanku is circling the earth till date!

Prof Nara mentions that the only Reality is the famous Liberty, Egalite and Fraternity of the French Revolution. They are framed in three words and not in one. Truth can be only one, with an answer, yes or no. In modern parlance, it is like the binary system of today’s computers,0 or 1.The greys of the words Liberte, egalite and fraternity, all culminate in one word,--DEMOCRACY.

A drop of water must loose its individuality if it wants to form part of a large ocean .In Science, there is a unified approach now .Instead of a downward curve of Divide and Conquer, there is now an unified upward curve of Unite and Realize.
We have to shed off Malam to become Amalam-Amala.
Finally ,as Sri Saideo has mentioned in his eloquent posting, EKAM SAT, as the Rig Veda says. The Reality is One. I can only add “ Loko Bahuda Vadanti “ People talk differently.( about the same thing).

Respects and Regards,
Ramanathan.

Dear Dr Ramanathan,

thank you very much for your detail reply.you have covered many topics in it.

renu

 

[amala]

If everything esp Jagat is unreal why does it feel real? Ok one says its because I'm deceived by illusion/ignorance but I can really say everything that everyone here has written is something I've read before (when I started reading about Advaita) so its nothing "new". But just because I've read it before doesn't mean and i "know" it doesnt mean it makes any rational sense.

If I know its unreal why am i not feeling it. I know I'm Brahman, but I don't feel like Brahman (not sure how Brahman feels). Someone said as long as Maya persists, mind exists. But if we know that its Maya, why can't we get rid of it...at least I can't.

And most importantly if everything is unreal why do we bother having this conversation since it doesnt matter in the slightest one way or the other.....its really doing my head it....excuse me...while i go study for my very "unreal" exams...to write unreal answers and earn unreal money ;-)

 

[Nara]

....Non-existence(Asat) is that which does not exist in all three periods of time. A flower exist and so does the sky but Flowers in the sky can never be.

Dear renu, "Flower in the sky can never be" does not negate the flower or the sky, they both exist.

We cannot just define something to make it fit a conclusion we favor. Anything that changes does not exist is counter intuitive and contrary to experience (prathyaksham).

Further, there is not a shred of evidence that there is a brahman, let alone that brahman exists in all three time zones.

So, "brahman satyam, jagath mityam" is based on completely made up entity called brahman and a self-serving definition of the word "non-existent".

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

...excuse me...while i go study for my very "unreal" exams...to write unreal answers and earn unreal money ;-)

There you go Amala, that is advaitam....

I once heard a story about a gurukulam with a teacher explaining the finer points of the jagath being unreal and everything we around us is only an illusion, they do not exist. One student put up his hand and asked, "what if a tiger enters the ashramam, is it also unreal?"

"Yes of course" thundered the teacher and continued, "why do you ask?" The student replied, "because a tiger is coming towards us."

Immediately the teacher got up screaming, "run boys, run for you lives."

 

[nachi naga]

Brahma Satyam Jagat Mithya Jeevo brahmaiva naaparah

This is the complete verse or sentence in samnskritham of Adi Shankaracharya's advaitham philosophical truth based on Vedas..


Thereby quoting Adi-Shankara partly,we get part response,like out of context

something like E=MC

actual equation is E=MC * C

Wonder what einstein will do when someone quotes half baked equation and then dwelve on the result?

nachi naga.

 

[renuka]

Dear Nara anna,



You are also real..I am also real..

Are you really just Nara only and am I just Renuka only?
No isnt it? I could have been anyone before and might be anyone in my future births..
and this is the same for you and me....

Even Avatar Krishna was described as Maya Manusha Vesha Leeladhara.

Its our Vesham which appears Real for at least in this lifetime...
But who are we..then the question is Who am I?

Kah aham....Koham...(Who am I)
answer is Sah aham...Soham...(I am He)
Soham is our very breath itself.

Ok there is still some amount of qualified non dualism here. Sah + Aham...
But there has to be since our gross body verily exist...for explanation purposes...

Non Dualism is actually just a progress in the spiritual evolutionary scale...

Didnt Lord Krishna tell Arjuna to rise above the Vedas...He said man are attracted to the flowery words of the Vedas and He advised Arjuna to rise above it...He did not say hold on to it.

Once the Vedas has served the purpose of bringing us to the understanding that there is Unity in Diversity and Brahman is all pervading and verily in everything...The Vedas then has served its purpose and we should rise above it...thats where Non Dualism takes over and once one has risen above the Vedas he does not need it for evidence or proof from its Shrutis...Non Dualism is a self discovery...a journey where one only can realize..and not evidence based...

I have been wondering about the "missing link"....the link where and why Vishisthadvaitam does not evolve or progress into Advaitam...

I personally do not reject any..whether Dvaitam,Vishisthadvaitam and Advaitam...
Its all interconnected and interchangable depending on time,place and person...

renu

 

[tbs]

hi folks,
the jagat looklike real...its true...but the real thing should not change...
if it changes..then it is unreal........we have six pramanas in advaitha
to proove about atman and jagat.....pratyksha/anumana/upamana/
arthapathi/anupalabdhi...i think renu ji can explain more in these
pramanas in a elaborte manner....the knowledge is pure
brahman.sat chit ananda swaroopam brahma....many things can
not compromise through our indriyas....so sruthi is more important
to understand the brahman.brahma veda brahmaiya bhavati...this
is from upanishad....somebody says ..as poorvapaksha in shastra
like wise ..naa ayam atma pravachanena labhyaha...na medaya..
its look like anoraniyaan ..mahato mahiyaan....like brahman like
atom.........we know atom...we can't show to everybody in naked
eyes.....so mahato mahiyaaan cha...as big as whole universe...
my 2 cents...

regards
tbs

 

[renuka]

Dear Tbs Ji,

I am no expert on the 6 pramanas...but i have found 2 useful links. I myself must start reading it...

1. 
   
2. Vedanta Article : Six Pramanas
   
   The teachers of Advaita Vedanta philosophy have gone into this aspect of the process of knowledge in great detail, and have enumerated 'six' pramanas. ...
   www.vmission.org.in/vedanta/articles/pramanas.htm - Cached - Similar -
   
   
3. Pramanas from the Chapter "Nyaya", in Hindu Dharma : kamakoti.org:
   
   These four pramanas are accepted in Kumarilabhatta's school of Mimamsa. To them he has added two more: "arthapatti" and "anupalabdhi". Thus there are six ...
   www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part13/chap3.htm - Cached - Similar -