Bhagawan Ramana Maharishi

[Iyest]

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Sri USaiyer Sir,

Lord Krishna says that only a tiny portion of the population seeks the ultimate Truth. Why so?

Getting tired of Samsara is not easy. It takes innumerable births as humans to come to this stage. And, even if one comes to this stage, one needs the grace of the Brahman to open the doors to this knowledge.

Just my take. Sri Iyest Sir may have a better response. Thanks.

Dear KRS sir, as senior citizens we can see how things have changed even in the last 50 or 60 years. People have substitutes for everything and made everything replaceable. It ranges from TVs and smartphones to wives, husbands, children and of course gurus. Divorce is easily obtained, children can be adopted, a new guru is always available if the present one is old fashioned and boring. There is nothing inherently right or wrong about this but it shows how the mind constructs societies and laws to feed its pleasures. This is a way to escape from suffering easily and quickly. People can get back to their pleasures and they can live in their envelope of comfort which they think is permanent. When life proceeds in this mode there is less need or opportunity to introspect and seek the fundamental answer to suffering.

Someone asked Bhagavan why he did not feel that the body was a burden. Bhagavan replied ‘ because you have not had enough of it’. We have not had enough of pleasures both material and psychological. The question of getting tired of samsara does not arise.

Just my two paisa.

 

[usaiyer]

50 or 60years back, life was one of struggle and may be we did not have too many wants ,lived a simple life and socially a happy life too. Villages were flourishing. less urbanization .a caring govt .and less or limited education, To day what with
globalization, explosion of all types of education ,consumerism. The philosophy life have changed. Self interest and personal comforts have overtaken and the psychology
of the people also have changed leading to material pursuits.
and easy life and enjoyment.
But laws of nature being what they are, the social fabric
of breaking up of families, unconstrained life style ,easy virtues
are likely to lead to more problems individually and socially.
The next change will be to find a solution from within the
individual and spiritual awakening process will start.
Kalki Avatar may be in offing.

 

[KRS]

Q : Is it possible for everyone to know directly without doubt what exactly is one's true nature?

A : Undoubtedly it is possible.

Q : How?

A : It is the experience of everyone that even in the states of deep sleep, fainting, etc., when the entire universe, moving and stationary, beginning with the earth and ending with the unmanifested (prakriti), disappears, he does not disappear. Therefore the state of pure being which is common to all and which is always experienced directly by everybody is one's true nature. The conclusion is that all experiences in the enlightened as well as the ignorant state, which may be described by newer and newer words, are opposed to one's real nature.

- from 'The Collected Works of Sri Ramana Maharshi', under the topic: 'Attainment' (Arudha), in 'Upadesa Manjari' or Spiritual Instruction.

 

[KRS]

50 or 60years back, life was one of struggle and may be we did not have too many wants ,lived a simple life and socially a happy life too. Villages were flourishing. less urbanization .a caring govt .and less or limited education, To day what with
globalization, explosion of all types of education ,consumerism. The philosophy life have changed. Self interest and personal comforts have overtaken and the psychology
of the people also have changed leading to material pursuits.
and easy life and enjoyment.
But laws of nature being what they are, the social fabric
of breaking up of families, unconstrained life style ,easy virtues
are likely to lead to more problems individually and socially.
The next change will be to find a solution from within the
individual and spiritual awakening process will start.
Kalki Avatar may be in offing.

Sri usaiyer Sir,

we have to understand that we are all but tiny cells in the ‘body’ of the great manifestation called Ishwara.

Everything happens for a reason. Even for the Universe there is Jananam and Maranam. If one takes this attitude, then do not unduly worry about what happens in the outside world. Just appreciate the fact that we as human beings, if we want, have the tools given to us by the almighty, through Gurus and scriptures to escape all the samsaras. Thanks.

 

[KRS]

 

[KRS]

Q: What is the difference between the mind and the Self?
A: There is no difference. The mind turned inwards is the Self; turned outwards, it becomes the ego and all the world. Cotton made into various clothes we call by various names. Gold made into various ornaments, we call by various names. But all the clothes are cotton and all the ornaments gold. The one is real, the many are mere names and forms. But the mind does not exist apart from the Self, that is, it has no independent existence. The Self exists without the mind, never the mind without the Self.
Sri Ramana Maharshi, Be As You Are

 

[KRS]

Question: What is a mind, which has a form and a mind without form?

Bhagavan: Pure mind is a space of emptiness. Immediately on waking from sleep, a clear awareness arises, without exception in all people. That is formless mind. Thoughts such as "I am the body," "This is the world," arise only after that, which is the mind with form. In a cinema show the light appears first, and the forms appear on the screen only after the light. Likewise, the light of the Self comes first and provides space for everything that follows.

Taken from the book Bhagavan Ramana answers 100 questions.
Question 42.

 

[renuka]

Question: What is a mind, which has a form and a mind without form?

Bhagavan: Pure mind is a space of emptiness. Immediately on waking from sleep, a clear awareness arises, without exception in all people. That is formless mind. Thoughts such as "I am the body," "This is the world," arise only after that, which is the mind with form. In a cinema show the light appears first, and the forms appear on the screen only after the light. Likewise, the light of the Self comes first and provides space for everything that follows.

Taken from the book Bhagavan Ramana answers 100 questions.
Question 42.

Seems like the mind without a form is like a sea without waves and the mind with a form is like a sea with waves.

 

[KRS]

Seems like the mind without a form is like a sea without waves and the mind with a form is like a sea with waves.

Waves are then akin to ego. They exist as a result of wind and gravity (survival) and in the process forget they are water. Great apology.

 

[usaiyer]

KRS ji,
what happens to the mind when asleep?
As I understand ,Self alone exists in deep sleep and as it is a state of pure bliss.
the mind is devoid of thoughts and fully controlled. Hence it merges with self.
But a mind disturbed and entertaining worries or actively in thinking state with out your being aware of it can lead to
disturbances in sleep
Dream state may occur and when he wakes up ,will he still be
in a formless mind?
How these states are different from wakeful state?
What is Bagahvan's explanation for them?

 

[renuka]

KRS ji,
what happens to the mind when asleep?
As I understand ,Self alone exists in deep sleep and as it is a state of pure bliss.
the mind is devoid of thoughts and fully controlled. Hence it merges with self.
But a mind disturbed and entertaining worries or actively in thinking state with out your being aware of it can lead to
disturbances in sleep
Dream state may occur and when he wakes up ,will he still be
in a formless mind?
How these states are different from wakeful state?
What is Bagahvan's explanation for them?

When we get up especially at 4am for the first 20 minutes the brain is in alpha mode thought waves..its practically as still as a sea without waves and its laps up any info fed to it..like a blank memory card on which information can be stored..hence its called Brahmamuhurtam in Hinduism and the last 1/3 of the night when God descends in Islam.
This 4am time is highly recommended for sadhana as you must be already knowing.

Next is..do we all always wake up in a state of formless mind?
Well, not always!

If one wakes up in a Hypnopompic state, this stage is when one wakes up while still dreaming..that is the mind is still dreaming but physical body is already awake.

This stage can be scary and some people hallucinate as in still experiencing the dream state and the dreams project in waking state and mostly its some nightmare and one sees the superimposed nightmare right infront of their eyes.
Some do experience sleep paralaysis too in this state and the heart rate, breathing rate increases and the brain- mind complex is no more in alpha state.

So in such a situation we do NOT wake up in a state of a clean slate waveless sea formless mind and can feel anxious the moment we wake up.

Anyway what affects us more is the subconcious because the electromagnetic energy of our brain is affected by our emotions and general health and holistic well being....hence sadhana is recommended by religion as to feed conducive frequencies to our brain-mind complex and eventually hope to align it with the Universal frequency around us and it will inner engineer our whole system for trikarana suddhi.


Usually some info on the state of mind is given in religious text but at times we really might not find each and every state of mind covered in religious text as we are meant to contemplate upon what is given and we do have the option to take the jist of the understanding and co relate it with scientific principles we know like what Nikola Tesla had expanded upon when he said
" If you want to find the secret of the universe, you need to think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration"

 

[KRS]

 

[usaiyer]

OM Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya!!

 

[usaiyer]

which is the satsangam in chennai or nearby place for
the Ramana followers.KRS may be aware of some which
I request you to pleas share.

 

[KRS]

which is the satsangam in chennai or nearby place for
the Ramana followers.KRS may be aware of some which
I request you to pleas share.

Sri usaIyer Sir,

I do not attend any of the Bhagawan’s Satsangams. For me, his direct words, writings as well as thoughts of a few of his followers are adequate.

I live in the U.S., has been for the past 50 odd years. So, I specifically do not know the Chennai scene, regarding the question you posed.

Sorry, I am unable to assist you on this specific matter.

 

[Iyest]

Dear Usaiyer sir, there are two places in Chennai that I am aware of. Ramana Kendra in Mylapore and Ramanalayam in Chrompet. I don’t know whether they are still functioning so you will have to check. There used to be a Ramana-Krishnamurti centre but I think it closed few years ago. I have not been to any of them except once to the Chrompet place. I come to know of these places from others.

 

[KRS]

 

[renuka]

View attachment 14891

 

[prasad1]

I follow Kabirdas, I have never heard of this poem.
It is beautiful and follows his style and philosophy very much.

Mystic SongsShare This Page

Moko Kahan Dhundhere Bande Mein To Tere Paas Mein
Na Teerath Mein, Na Moorat Mein Na Ekant Niwas Mein
Na Mandir Mein, Na Masjid Mein Na Kabe Kailas Mein
Mein To Tere Paas Mein Bande Mein To Tere Paas Mein
Na Mein Jap Mein, Na Mein Tap Mein Na Mein Barat Upaas Mein
Na Mein Kiriya Karm Mein Rehta Nahin Jog Sanyas Mein
Nahin Pran Mein Nahin Pind Mein Na Brahmand Akas Mein
Na Mein Prakuti Prawar Gufa Mein Nahin Swasan Ki Swans Mein
Khoji Hoye Turat Mil Jaoon Ik Pal Ki Talas Mein
Kahet Kabir Suno Bhai Sadho Mein To Hun Viswas Mein

Translation
Where do you search me? I am with you
Not in pilgrimage, nor in icons, Neither in solitudes
Not in temples, nor in mosques Neither in Kaba nor in Kailash
I am with you o man, I am with you
Not in prayers, nor in meditation, Neither in fasting
Not in yogic exercises, Neither in renunciation
Neither in the vital force nor in the body, Not even in the ethereal space
Neither in the womb of Nature, Not in the breath of the breath
Seek earnestly and discover, In but a moment of search
Says Kabir, Listen with care, Where your faith is, I am there.
My Understanding
In spite of the different approaches of all religious and philosophical teachings, it is very clear that the all-pervading, omniscient, omnipresent factor is finally God. Due to our customs, traditions, languages we only address Him by various names. Yet, it is also true that in spite of this awareness, we spend a lot of time in arguing about God and try to impose attributes.

Kabir noticed this centuries old phenomenon in his times also. And this great Master, in the above verse highlights the underlying principle that God is everywhere.

Kabir reveals in this verse the various search patterns adopted by mankind. And each one seems to be justifying his chosen method. Some say God will be realized through pilgrimages while some justify the idol worship. Some say He is up in the mountains while some believe that He is in places of worship. Some proclaim prayers and meditation the path, others believe realization through fasting. Many talk about yogic exercises (activity) and renunciation.

In this verse Kabir seems to be saying that God is NOT in any of these. However, this cannot be true. To my understanding, Kabir is saying that God is everywhere and therefore in all these too. However, his saying "No" simply means that we should apply our faith to One and follow it up sincerely. This will lead to instant realization of the divinity within us. However, if we "switch" our approach from one path to another, then we are simply conducting a sort of gymnastic. In his typical mystical ways, Kabir shows us the omniscience of God.

Moko Kahan Dhoonde Re

sorry for posting in this thread. This may not be the appropriate thread for this.

 

[renuka]

I follow Kabirdas, I have never heard of this poem.
It is beautiful and follows his style and philosophy very much.

Mystic SongsShare This Page

Moko Kahan Dhundhere Bande Mein To Tere Paas Mein
Na Teerath Mein, Na Moorat Mein Na Ekant Niwas Mein
Na Mandir Mein, Na Masjid Mein Na Kabe Kailas Mein
Mein To Tere Paas Mein Bande Mein To Tere Paas Mein
Na Mein Jap Mein, Na Mein Tap Mein Na Mein Barat Upaas Mein
Na Mein Kiriya Karm Mein Rehta Nahin Jog Sanyas Mein
Nahin Pran Mein Nahin Pind Mein Na Brahmand Akas Mein
Na Mein Prakuti Prawar Gufa Mein Nahin Swasan Ki Swans Mein
Khoji Hoye Turat Mil Jaoon Ik Pal Ki Talas Mein
Kahet Kabir Suno Bhai Sadho Mein To Hun Viswas Mein

Translation
Where do you search me? I am with you
Not in pilgrimage, nor in icons, Neither in solitudes
Not in temples, nor in mosques Neither in Kaba nor in Kailash
I am with you o man, I am with you
Not in prayers, nor in meditation, Neither in fasting
Not in yogic exercises, Neither in renunciation
Neither in the vital force nor in the body, Not even in the ethereal space
Neither in the womb of Nature, Not in the breath of the breath
Seek earnestly and discover, In but a moment of search
Says Kabir, Listen with care, Where your faith is, I am there.
My Understanding
In spite of the different approaches of all religious and philosophical teachings, it is very clear that the all-pervading, omniscient, omnipresent factor is finally God. Due to our customs, traditions, languages we only address Him by various names. Yet, it is also true that in spite of this awareness, we spend a lot of time in arguing about God and try to impose attributes.

Kabir noticed this centuries old phenomenon in his times also. And this great Master, in the above verse highlights the underlying principle that God is everywhere.

Kabir reveals in this verse the various search patterns adopted by mankind. And each one seems to be justifying his chosen method. Some say God will be realized through pilgrimages while some justify the idol worship. Some say He is up in the mountains while some believe that He is in places of worship. Some proclaim prayers and meditation the path, others believe realization through fasting. Many talk about yogic exercises (activity) and renunciation.

In this verse Kabir seems to be saying that God is NOT in any of these. However, this cannot be true. To my understanding, Kabir is saying that God is everywhere and therefore in all these too. However, his saying "No" simply means that we should apply our faith to One and follow it up sincerely. This will lead to instant realization of the divinity within us. However, if we "switch" our approach from one path to another, then we are simply conducting a sort of gymnastic. In his typical mystical ways, Kabir shows us the omniscience of God.

Moko Kahan Dhoonde Re

sorry for posting in this thread. This may not be the appropriate thread for this.

Dear Prasad ji,
In the version Sooryagayatri is singing they have replaced Kaabe with Kaashi.
Well, that changed the whole meaning cos Kabir das was saying God is neither at Ka'ba nor Kailash.
If we replace Ka'ba with Kaashi that would seem as if Kabir das was just denying existence of God only in Hinduism..so best we still stick to the original.

Here is another version..it kept to the original but shorter.




I guess its appropriate to post it cos it does jive with Ramana Maharishi's words.

 

[Iyest]

The snake must bite its own tail.


WITNESSING IS NOT VICHARA - VICHARA IS THE FINAL DOOR

So, as respects Bhagavan's method of remaining as Subjective Consciousness, I am supposed to witness without entertaining the notion that I am witnessing - is that right?

B.: Who is that one who remains as Subjective Consciousness? Is Subjective Consciousness proclaiming that he is going to remain as Subjective Consciousness? You see the absurdity of it.

So, your task is not to remain as Subjective Consciousness; your task is to keep yourself out of the way so that Subjective Consciousness remains merely as Itself without getting impeded by you.

As for witnessing, there is nothing to witness. IT IS. Simple Being.

When ideas create modifications in consciousness, which is the essence or substance of the mind, another idea made of the same substance is used as a tool with which to crush (annihilate) all other ideas; finally, this tool is also destroyed. That is why the example of the stick used to stir the burning funeral pyre is furnished.

Q.: So merely watching (observing) consciousness with a placid, thought-free mind is not a sadhana that suffices to destroy the mind and bestow Realization?

B.: If the aspirant is unremittingly sincere in its pursuit, the practice that you mention will in due course by itself cause sufficient introversion of mind to empower (facilitate) the mind to become ready for successfully investigating 'Who am I?'. However, it is erroneous to imagine that the two practices are one and the same, or even similar.

Q.: But they both aim at ensuring that the sadhaka remains attending to mere consciousness; how can they be distinct from each other?

B.: The act of attending to pure Subjective Consciousness alone still involves that one who undertakes such Sadhana. WHO IS HE?

Q.: But there is also that one who investigates 'Who am I?'.

B.: He is both the subject and object of his investigation.

That is why in the end, everybody must come only through this gate before reaching the citadel of the Heart. Who am I? is the only Sadhana which is such that the one making it is the same as the one in relation to whom it is made.

The snake must bite its own tail. Otherwise, he will not die. Neophytes who complain that 'Who am I?' is not working are given the suggestion that they should watch the thought 'I', or that they should remain attending to Subjective Consciousness alone. Still less mature souls are told to repeat 'I', 'I' mentally, together with simultaneously concentrating on the sense of personality associated with 'I', that is to say with the mental concept of 'myself'. Those who are not able to do even this should do pranayama, japa, moorthy-dhyana, or hatha-yoga. None of these practices, however, could possibly serve as a substitute for vichara, nor is it meaningful to confuse any of them with vichara or to imagine any of them to be the same as vichara.



Vichara is the final door. The 'I' attends to himself, not to his Self. The ego attends to the ego and to nothing else; that is vichara. Attending to Subjective Consciousness, while it is a method having its beneficial use, is certainly NOT the same as vichara.


- Aham Sphurana

 

[KRS]

 

[usaiyer]

KRSji,
Namaskar.
I found some place in chennai for Baghavan Ramana's satsangh.
What about US? Are such Satsangs popular there?
The Apple CEO seemed to have taken keen interest in Kriya Yoga ,which perhaps was propagated by Yogi Yogananda.
Prior to that Rajneesh 'sTM was making waves in California and elsewhere.
Now Sadguru from a southern suburb is making good in US.

Om Namo Bagahvate SrI Ramanaya!!

 

[KRS]

KRSji,
Namaskar.
I found some place in chennai for Baghavan Ramana's satsangh.
What about US? Are such Satsangs popular there?
The Apple CEO seemed to have taken keen interest in Kriya Yoga ,which perhaps was propagated by Yogi Yogananda.
Prior to that Rajneesh 'sTM was making waves in California and elsewhere.
Now Sadguru from a southern suburb is making good in US.

Om Namo Bagahvate SrI Ramanaya!!

Sri usaiyer sir,

I am glad you found the Satsang. There are so many Satsangs here in the USA, that are quite popular. You find them in all major cities.

Yes, when we say there are various ways to God, what we mean is that each of our mind, because of our Vasanas, have different frequencies in terms of likes and dislikes. So, the need for all different stripes of Gurus. If one is qualified as a Mumukshu, the most important thing, in my opinion and in my learning, is that one totally submits to one’s Guru’s teaching and perform whatever Sadhana that Guru prescribes.

 

[usaiyer]

KRSsir,
Namaskar,
Thank you. I have only located a Satsang ,but yet to resume my activities. There in I will try for a guru
In US there are more satsangs in West ,not so much in east
and also not in Canada.
Do the temples take initiative for Satsang there. I really don't know.
What is the role of law of karma in one's life IN addition to
huia vasanas and gunas.
I s mind a separate entity or part of Self?
someone was mentioning of merging of the mind with the self? what does this mean?
Om Namo Baghavte Shri Ramanaya!!