Bhagawan Ramana Maharishi

[Iyest]

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Dear Sri Iyest Sir,

Yes sir.

I would like to ask your opinion on my following thoughts:

So, I would like to propose that from my viewpoint, Bhagawan’s words about the Truth apply only to his followers.

Dear KRS sir, I think Bhagavan's own statement will help you.

Bhagavan: If one jnani exists in the world, his influence will be felt by or benefits all people in the world and not simply his immediate disciples. All the people in the world are divided into his disciples, bhaktas; those who are indifferent to him and those who are even hostile to him and it is said in a verse from Vedanta Chudamani that all these classes will be benefitted by the existence of the jnani.

 

[KRS]

Dear KRS sir, I think Bhagavan's own statement will help you.

Bhagavan: If one jnani exists in the world, his influence will be felt by or benefits all people in the world and not simply his immediate disciples. All the people in the world are divided into his disciples, bhaktas; those who are indifferent to him and those who are even hostile to him and it is said in a verse from Vedanta Chudamani that all these classes will be benefitted by the existence of the jnani.

Dear Sri Iyest Sir,

I am so sorry, I was so busy, could not reply earlier.

Again, I managed to miscommunicate my thoughts.

No Sir, I was not asking you to comment on Sri Godman or Papaji. I cited them mainly for the readers to understand how a follower of a different Sampradhayam came to Bhagawan. That’s all. Also if I have doubts go directly to Bhagawan’s teachings. As I mentioned before, I have read anything and everything about the Bhagawan long while ago, but have not done so for quite a while.

I do agree with all you posted about the Bhagawan’s teachings. But again, that was not I was asking you to comment, which I somehow managed to confuse.

Because Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji posted about Islam, a thought occurred to me how to address followers of other Sampradhayams without hurting their sentiments. Of course we should clearly put forth the underpinnings of the teachings.

However, in the past, exactly in this forum, endless discussions, sometimes heated were held without any resolutions.

To avoid such lengthy useless discussions, I thought we can say that the Bhagawan’s teachings apply only to his followers, knowing full well that as his Bhaktha, I know his teachings are universal.

Funny thing is, what I thought was a trivial issue and I need not have involved you in it. Because I confused, the result is a great effort on your part explaining. I apologize for that. But actually, as a blessing in disguise, I did enjoy reading all the related posts.

Hope this explains.

 

[renuka]

Because Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji posted about Islam, a thought occurred to me how to address followers of other Sampradhayams without hurting their sentiments. Of course we should clearly put forth the underpinnings of the teachings.

However, in the past, exactly in this forum, endless discussions, sometimes heated were held without any resolutions.

To avoid such lengthy useless discussions, I thought we can say that the Bhagawan’s teachings apply only to his followers, knowing full well that as his Bhaktha, I know his teachings are universal.

Dear KRS ji,
Thanks for stating that Bhagawan's teachings are Universal and admiting you did not relay the actual scenario.
Satyam Eva Jayate.

 

[KRS]

Dear KRS ji,
Thanks for stating that Bhagawan's teachings are Universal and admiting you did not relay the actual scenario.
Satyam Eva Jayate.

Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji,

There is nothing to ‘admit’. I did not lie, nor to my knowledge hid something intentionally. I did not clearly present my thoughts and I clarified it.

By the way, I do not know any follower of any spiritual path who thinks that the teachings apply only to the respective group And not Universal.

If you still think, I should ‘admit it’, then Ido unconditionally and double down on it, offering my apologies in addition.

Also, I was going to respond to your earlier post. It is so impressive that you can pick up languages at will, learn and apply. God has blessEd you with unusual talents. I am barely proficient in Tamil and as you can see, I can not express myself clearly in English either!

Do you understand ‘Ilakkia’ Tamil? Do you read Tamil scriptures as well?

Going back to Islam, then, do you think then, Muslims understand and appreciate the ‘different ways’ of worship, in the creed and outside the creed? Just curious. Thanks.

 

[Iyest]

Dear Sri Iyest Sir,

I am so sorry, I was so busy, could not reply earlier.

Again, I managed to miscommunicate my thoughts.

I do agree with all you posted about the Bhagawan’s teachings. But again, that was not I was asking you to comment, which I somehow managed to confuse.



Funny thing is, what I thought was a trivial issue and I need not have involved you in it. Because I confused, the result is a great effort on your part explaining. I apologize for that. But actually, as a blessing in disguise, I did enjoy reading all the related posts.

Hope this explains.

Dear KRS sir, no worries, Your post gave us the opportunity to revisit Bhagavan's teachings. Another opportunity to put them into practice. 'Whatever is destined to happen will happen.' Even if a post from person A creates a problem (confusion), it really has nothing to do with A. Because it was my prarabdha to face that problem on that day. Person A was only the messenger. No point in personalizing the problem and thinking 'A has caused this problem for me'. It is my prarabdha to experience that problem and if not A then another person B would have created it on that day. At least with this bit of understanding we can avoid blame, anger etc at particular individuals. I find these to be small, preliminary steps in implementing the teachings. Even this can be difficult at times. And nowhere near enquiring deeply the fundamental question 'who is the me?' to begin with.

 

[renuka]

Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji,

There is nothing to ‘admit’. I did not lie, nor to my knowledge hid something intentionally. I did not clearly present my thoughts and I clarified it.

By the way, I do not know any follower of any spiritual path who thinks that the teachings apply only to the respective group And not Universal.

If you still think, I should ‘admit it’, then Ido unconditionally and double down on it, offering my apologies in addition.

Also, I was going to respond to your earlier post. It is so impressive that you can pick up languages at will, learn and apply. God has blessEd you with unusual talents. I am barely proficient in Tamil and as you can see, I can not express myself clearly in English either!

Do you understand ‘Ilakkia’ Tamil? Do you read Tamil scriptures as well?

Going back to Islam, then, do you think then, Muslims understand and appreciate the ‘different ways’ of worship, in the creed and outside the creed? Just curious. Thanks.

Dear KRS ji,

Lying is too harsh a word.
You did not lie but you felt that you should just " modify" the actual fact a little bit to be polite to other sampradhayas.

Didnt we all see the Mahima of Bhagawan? That finally the actual message that His teachings are Universal was made evident by you.

Dont get me wrong.
I can see that you are sincere in your bhakti to Bhagawan.
When a bhakta is devoted to God or Guru, even a slightest personal thought for the greater good would not be allowed by God or Guru cos its at this stage that the Bhakta's " I am the doer" starts to get dissolved and one starts to lose one's free will.

Free will feels " I can modify Bhagawan's message and say its only for Bhagawan's disciples"

Divine Will deletes that thought from you cos that would generate Karma and Divine will makes you reveal the actual message.

I am glad to see that you are blessed yourself.

Coming to languages..I sat for both Sanskrit and Arabic languages exams.
I teach Sanskrit too and I also teach Grantham script.
I love languages..knowing 6 in total but I must admit that though I read Tamil, I do not read it too fast but after joining forum and reading some tamil post here my Tamil has improved a lot

But honestly to tell you the truth, knowledge of Sanskrit and Arabic is bookish knowledge.
True jnaana is transmited in the sound of silence and the brain " Google Translates" it to the default language of the person.

I understand why Lord Buddha preached in local language, cos the actual message is in any language a seeker speaks.

Coming to your question as " would any Muslim understand and appreciate different ways "
Yes..I have met many and also met many who are rigid and do not appreciate.
So I do not generalize and the actual question we all finally ask ourselves is
"Ko' ham"/Naan yaar"( Who am I) and not 'who is that person" or "who is this person"
So I usually focus on my journey and let others have their mode to approach God and do not really wonder who appreciates any worship or not.

 

[KRS]

Dear KRS ji,

Lying is too harsh a word.
You did not lie but you felt that you should just " modify" the actual fact a little bit to be polite to other sampradhayas.

Didnt we all see the Mahima of Bhagawan? That finally the actual message that His teachings are Universal was made evident by you.

Dont get me wrong.
I can see that you are sincere in your bhakti to Bhagawan.
When a bhakta is devoted to God or Guru, even a slightest personal thought for the greater good would not be allowed by God or Guru cos its at this stage that the Bhakta's " I am the doer" starts to get dissolved and one starts to lose one's free will.

Free will feels " I can modify Bhagawan's message and say its only for Bhagawan's disciples"

Divine Will deletes that thought from you cos that would generate Karma and Divine will makes you reveal the actual message.

I am glad to see that you are blessed yourself.

Coming to languages..I sat for both Sanskrit and Arabic languages exams.
I teach Sanskrit too and I also teach Grantham script.
I love languages..knowing 6 in total but I must admit that though I read Tamil, I do not read it too fast but after joining forum and reading some tamil post here my Tamil has improved a lot

But honestly to tell you the truth, knowledge of Sanskrit and Arabic is bookish knowledge.
True jnaana is transmited in the sound of silence and the brain " Google Translates" it to the default language of the person.

I understand why Lord Buddha preached in local language, cos the actual message is in any language a seeker speaks.

Coming to your question as " would any Muslim understand and appreciate different ways "
Yes..I have met many and also met many who are rigid and do not appreciate.
So I do not generalize and the actual question we all finally ask ourselves is
"Ko' ham"/Naan yaar"( Who am I) and not 'who is that person" or "who is this person"
So I usually focus on my journey and let others have their mode to approach God and do not really wonder who appreciates any worship or not.

Srimathi Renuka Ji,

If it resonated with you that I ‘changed the fact a little bit’, then who am I to argue? As I said before, I admit changing ‘it’, and apologize for changing ‘it’.

Thanks for your answer to my query on Islam.

 

[KRS]

Dear KRS sir, no worries, Your post gave us the opportunity to revisit Bhagavan's teachings. Another opportunity to put them into practice. 'Whatever is destined to happen will happen.' Even if a post from person A creates a problem (confusion), it really has nothing to do with A. Because it was my prarabdha to face that problem on that day. Person A was only the messenger. No point in personalizing the problem and thinking 'A has caused this problem for me'. It is my prarabdha to experience that problem and if not A then another person B would have created it on that day. At least with this bit of understanding we can avoid blame, anger etc at particular individuals. I find these to be small, preliminary steps in implementing the teachings. Even this can be difficult at times. And nowhere near enquiring deeply the fundamental question 'who is the me?' to begin with.

Thank you.

 

[renuka]

Srimathi Renuka Ji,

If it resonated with you that I ‘changed the fact a little bit’, then who am I to argue? As I said before, I admit changing ‘it’, and apologize for changing ‘it’.

Thanks for your answer to my query on Islam.

Dear KRSji,

You are indeed kind...there is no actual need to apologize too cos all of this exchanges gave us the chance to learn from each other.

I think you could be older than me and I feel a little uneasy if an older person is apologizing.
Its Ok Sir.
I understand you meant no harm.

 

[KRS]

 

[Iyest]

I asked "what about a pure materialist, who does not believe in God. How are we to deal with him?"

Bhagavan: He will come gradually, step by step, to find out the source of the 'I'. First, adversity will make him feel that there is a power beyond his control, upsetting his plans. Then, he will begin with rituals, ceremonial worship, and through japa, kirtan, dhyana, go on to vichara.

---Devaraja Mudaliar, Day by day with Bhagavan.

 

[Iyest]

The truth is all karma of whatever kind will lead to fresh bondage. That is why it is said in Ozhivil Odukkam that Guru who prescribes fresh karma or action of any sort i.e. rituals or sacrifices to one who after trying various karmas comes to him for peace is both Brahma and Yama to the disciple i.e. he only creates fresh births and deaths.

---Devaraja Mudaliar, Day by day with Bhagavan.

 

[KRS]

Paragraph 10, Nan Yar? (Who am I?)
By Ramana Maharshi

Even though viṣaya-vāsanās [inclinations to experience things other than oneself], which come from time immemorial, rise [as thoughts or phenomena] in countless numbers like ocean-waves, they will all be destroyed when svarūpa-dhyāna [self-attentiveness, contemplation on one’s ‘own form’ or real nature] increases and increases [in depth and intensity]. Without giving room even to the doubting thought ‘So many vāsanās ceasing [or being dissolved], is it possible to be only as svarūpa [my own form or real nature]?’ it is necessary to cling tenaciously to self-attentiveness. However great a sinner one may be, if instead of lamenting and weeping ‘I am a sinner! How am I going to be saved?’ one completely rejects the thought that one is a sinner and is zealous [or steadfast] in self-attentiveness, one will certainly be reformed [transformed into what one actually is].

Translation by Michael James

 

[KRS]

WAKING AND DREAM ARE UNREAL FROM THE ABSOLUTE VIEWPOINT

Q: Is there any real distinction between dream and waking?

M: Only an apparent one, not a real one. The dream is for one who says that he is awake. Both are unreal from the absolute viewpoint.

The ego arises when you wake up from sleep. In sleep you do not say that you are sleeping; you say it only when you wake up. But you are still there. You were not concerned with the body when asleep, so you can continue to be unconcerned.

In the waking state, ego identified itself with the physical body, and in dream, with the subtle mind. At that time the perceptions are also subtle.

Q: What is the difference between fainting and sleep?

M: Sleep is sudden and overpowers the person forcibly. A faint is slower and there is a tingle of resistance to it.

Realization is possible in a faint and impossible in sleep.

- Conscious Immortality

 

[renuka]

WAKING AND DREAM ARE UNREAL FROM THE ABSOLUTE VIEWPOINT

Q: Is there any real distinction between dream and waking?

M: Only an apparent one, not a real one. The dream is for one who says that he is awake. Both are unreal from the absolute viewpoint.

The ego arises when you wake up from sleep. In sleep you do not say that you are sleeping; you say it only when you wake up. But you are still there. You were not concerned with the body when asleep, so you can continue to be unconcerned.

In the waking state, ego identified itself with the physical body, and in dream, with the subtle mind. At that time the perceptions are also subtle.

Q: What is the difference between fainting and sleep?

M: Sleep is sudden and overpowers the person forcibly. A faint is slower and there is a tingle of resistance to it.

Realization is possible in a faint and impossible in sleep.

- Conscious Immortality

Ahamkara technically means
" I am the doer".

At a basic instinct level in conscious state its vital for survival.

When we are unconcious/ deep sleep/ anesthetized..Ahamkara isnt in active mode but life is still possible cos Ahamkara functions in conscious state.

In the conscious state of an unilluminated Buddhi the problem arises when Buddhi is functioning in memory mode using Chitta as its SD card( memory card) and forms judgments based on all experiences accumulated and superimposes the " past" memory onto the present and Ahamkara identifies with everything.

For eg as I write now may be some might think " is she going to bring up some other religion here?"

By me writing the sentence above or by another thinking so..this is a classic example of how the Buddhi slipped into Chitta to cloud the present and the Ahamkara identified with it and felt anticipation.

So what to do?

If we note the Gayatri mantra...its seeks to " illuminate the Buddhi" in the Dhiyo yo nah pracodayat.

So why Buddhi? Why not seek help for anything related to Manas, Chitta or Ahamkara?

Then Patanjali Yoga sutras states: " Yogas chitta vritti nirodha"
It calls for " absence of agitating memory waves"

So here its about the Chitta and its agitating waves.

Again..not the Ahamkara.

So what is the actual issue here?

One who is awakened is called a Buddha..the one with an illuminated Buddhi.

So per Gayatri mantra, Buddhi seems to be the issue here as in if the Buddhi is illuminated then all other functions start to be harmonized.

So is Buddhi the actual " culprit" and not the Ahamkara?

Ok..in a non illuminated Buddhi( intellect) it drowns its own inner voice by constantly functioning in a reactive limbic system manner( reptilian brain) by letting imprints from the Chitta cloud the present and Ahamkara identifies with it and endures pleasure or sorrow and its consequences.

When the Buddhi is illuminated, it clears the cache and browsing data of the Chitta so that it does not let it cloud the present.
( all previous data is archived only to be used if relevant to the present)

In this state the agitating waves of Chitta decreases (Yogas chitta vritti nirodha)

So what happens next?
Since there are no agitating waves, the Buddhi sees everything as it is and totally in the Eternal Now Golden Mean Balance and Union( what Yoga is all about)

So what happens to Ahamkara?
Does it exists?

Well, since the Buddhi is in the mode of Balance, the Ahamkara has nothing to identify with and pleasure and sorrow is transcended.
Manas would still function for purposes of living but as in alignment with Buddhi.


So technically nothing is the culprit here.
All functions of the Antahkarana have their function which functions best in the state of Yoga( Balanced Union)

 

[KRS]

The means of subsiding in the Heart

The intellect, which is the suttarivu, the individual consciousness, loses its focus and suffers by constantly directing attention towards objects and their attributes.

The way to make it [individual consciousness] unite with and subside in one’s swarupa [true nature] is to begin taking it, wholeheartedly, as the object of attention through the enquiry ‘Who is the “I” who is paying attention to sordid sense objects?’

Guru Vachaka Kovai v. 185

 

[KRS]

Ahamkara technically means
" I am the doer".

At a basic instinct level in conscious state its vital for survival.

When we are unconcious/ deep sleep/ anesthetized..Ahamkara isnt in active mode but life is still possible cos Ahamkara functions in conscious state.

In the conscious state of an unilluminated Buddhi the problem arises when Buddhi is functioning in memory mode using Chitta as its SD card( memory card) and forms judgments based on all experiences accumulated and superimposes the " past" memory onto the present and Ahamkara identifies with everything.

For eg as I write now may be some might think " is she going to bring up some other religion here?"

By me writing the sentence above or by another thinking so..this is a classic example of how the Buddhi slipped into Chitta to cloud the present and the Ahamkara identified with it and felt anticipation.

So what to do?

If we note the Gayatri mantra...its seeks to " illuminate the Buddhi" in the Dhiyo yo nah pracodayat.

So why Buddhi? Why not seek help for anything related to Manas, Chitta or Ahamkara?

Then Patanjali Yoga sutras states: " Yogas chitta vritti nirodha"
It calls for " absence of agitating memory waves"

So here its about the Chitta and its agitating waves.

Again..not the Ahamkara.

So what is the actual issue here?

One who is awakened is called a Buddha..the one with an illuminated Buddhi.

So per Gayatri mantra, Buddhi seems to be the issue here as in if the Buddhi is illuminated then all other functions start to be harmonized.

So is Buddhi the actual " culprit" and not the Ahamkara?

Ok..in a non illuminated Buddhi( intellect) it drowns its own inner voice by constantly functioning in a reactive limbic system manner( reptilian brain) by letting imprints from the Chitta cloud the present and Ahamkara identifies with it and endures pleasure or sorrow and its consequences.

When the Buddhi is illuminated, it clears the cache and browsing data of the Chitta so that it does not let it cloud the present.
( all previous data is archived only to be used if relevant to the present)

In this state the agitating waves of Chitta decreases (Yogas chitta vritti nirodha)

So what happens next?
Since there are no agitating waves, the Buddhi sees everything as it is and totally in the Eternal Now Golden Mean Balance and Union( what Yoga is all about)

So what happens to Ahamkara?
Does it exists?

Well, since the Buddhi is in the mode of Balance, the Ahamkara has nothing to identify with and pleasure and sorrow is transcended.
Manas would still function for purposes of living but as in alignment with Buddhi.


So technically nothing is the culprit here.
All functions of the Antahkarana have their function which functions best in the state of Yoga( Balanced Union)

Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji,

On reading the above, my mind thought ‘what a brilliant mind and analysis’ and it generated a deep sense of the wonder of creation and appreciation.

Then my Ahamkara interrupted and the mind said, ‘in the past, you would have felt jealous about someone else had this talent and not you!’

I have ways to go in my Sadhana. I would like my mind in a place, where when it sees my Ahamkara, even before it starts to open it’s mouth, to slap it down and eventually at a point where my Ahamkara would not even raise it’s head. All with love, of course.

All the best.

 

[renuka]

Srimathi Dr. Renuka Ji,

On reading the above, my mind thought ‘what a brilliant mind and analysis’ and it generated a deep sense of the wonder of creation and appreciation.

Then my Ahamkara interrupted and the mind said, ‘in the past, you would have felt jealous about someone else had this talent and not you!’

I have ways to go in my Sadhana. I would like my mind in a place, where when it sees my Ahamkara, even before it starts to open it’s mouth, to slap it down and eventually at a point where my Ahamkara would not even raise it’s head. All with love, of course.

All the best.

Thank you...
In the past, I too would have thought that " I understood the process well and produced a detailed analysis"...but that too is my Ahamkara speaking cos it was taking credit for what the intellect wrote.

But now I would only thank God for allowing me to have some idea of how the Antahkarana works with His consent becos all knowledge is His.

 

[KRS]

The story of King Janaka was told by Sage Vasishta to Sri Rama as follows:

King Janaka took evening walks everyday in his royal garden, while his retinue stayed outside. One day Janaka, when alone in the garden, happened to hear the conversation of some invisible siddhas. The purport of the conversation is as follows:

(1) When the knower and the known become one, then the bliss of the Self is experienced. This is known as Self -Knowledge and this is what one should aim at.

(2) To eradicate the vasanas one should contemplate on the Self which bestows light on the seer, seen and the act-of-seeing. One should thus contemplate on the eternal Self which is the centre between the being and non-being.

(3) That in which this entire universe is established, to which it pertains, out of which it arises, for which it exists, by which it really is, that is the self-existent-reality, the Truth. Let us contemplate on that in the Heart.*

(4) One should contemplate the one eternal Self which reveals itself shining as "I"-"I". Instead of seeking the truth in the heart, the ignorant goes in search of God outside oneself. It is like a man throwing away the valuable Kaustubba gem in hand and going after conch shells.

(5) The self can be realised only by those who have destroyed completely the hosts of desire. Knowing the absence of happiness in the baneful objects (both in the past and future) yet if one clings on to them one would remain in bondage and is no better than an ass.

(6) Just as the celestial Indra struck down the mountains with his thunderbolt, let us strike at the senses which raise their hoods as hissing snakes, with our powerful discriminative mind. By this the mind acquires peace, gets equanimity and becomes one with the Blissful Self.

* Invocatory verse to Supplement to Forty Verses. The Sanskrit (original) verse was translated into Tamil by Bhagavan.

Taken from Moments Remembered:Reminiscences of Bhagavan Ramana by Sri V Ganesan.

 

[KRS]

 

[KRS]

 

[KRS]

 

[usaiyer]

Ohm Namo Bhagavate Shri Ramanaya!!!
It seems that Ramana Maharishi's life and his spiritual journey was unique and spontaneous flowering of an inner urge which he took cognizance and pursued ascetic living and hard life to seek the truth.

However it is very difficult to lay our hands on the real experience of this great Maharishi, some of his admirers and
personal followers have given some insights into his spiritual
journey and as such the discussions on them has been very
enlightening and I want to thank you for the same.

I would request if possible make available one or two books on his spiritual philosophy in pdf format here for our benefit.
Namaskarams.

 

[renuka]

View attachment 13253

Mostly silence is thought of as absence of sound.
In the real sense absence of sound is not possible.
Even in a sound proof room we would hear the sound of blood flowing through the auditory apparatus.

So what exactly is the Silence we are talking about here?

The Sound of Silence in order to attain the art of knowing is one that puts our declarative memory to rest.

I note when I used to teach Sanskrit to older students, many failed to grasp as fast not because of lesser neuroplasticity but because they have lost the art of listening.

Their declarative memory of past memory and imprints keeps framing questions to ask the teacher just for the heck of it most of the time and in that process block the information waiting to enter their brain.

The art of knowing( gnosis) is only possible when we learn the art of listening.
When we learn to surrender to the moment and not constantly frame questions , we allow the information to traverse our mind.

Then the next level is abhaysa, the repetitive memory..to constantly contemplate on the information acquired in a repetitive format.

Once the information has gone into our permanent memory then its starts to sprout.

When it starts to sprout, the deeper dimensions of the information reveals itself to us in the Sound of Silence.
This is known as Shruti( That which is heard in a revelation)

It is at this stage a shisya and Guru can sit in the sound of silence yet have a "conversation" of consciousness.

 

[usaiyer]

We are silent if the mind is silenced and we can enjoy the
divine light radiating within and giving complete bliss.
Attachment 12353 perhaps means this
KRS may kindly help me with my query,
Thank you.