sravna
Well-known member
Intoxication means only self is right. Blind man cannot see, deaf cannot hear and the intoxicated cannot think. How can it change? Perhaps in future births.
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bhaja govindam
- Thread starter thebigthinkg
- Start date
renuka
Well-known member
sravna
Well-known member
renuka
Well-known member
Exactly!
sravna
Well-known member
Was doing some reading. Other religions such as Islam, Christianity, Buddhism have their versions of spirituality. Let me say inspite of the spiritual moorings of Hinduism there are fundamentalists in Hinduism also. So every religion has its share of fundamentalists, spiritualists and those in between. This is in accordance with the basic nature of humans to be prejudiced, unbiased or in between. The same can be said of science where some practitioners of science who interpret its philisophy in a strict way, some in a liberal way and some in between.
The right, left and center. While the right maintain their fundamentalist nature, the purity of the left and center have become more compromised and there is more a hidden agenda especially evident at the political level.
The right, left and center. While the right maintain their fundamentalist nature, the purity of the left and center have become more compromised and there is more a hidden agenda especially evident at the political level.
sravna
Well-known member
I believe a country should base it's constitution, policies and actions on preserving harmony. Anyone or anything detriment to it should be strictly dealt with be it from any religion, community or group.
Injustices of the past should not be corrected by again creating a new injustice. By this measure reservation system is not a proper idea. This will not foster any progress of mind. It will keep the wounds open and likely to worsen it. The best approach would be to foster progressive thoughts on both the oppressed and oppressor.
What would you do one of your two children who is malnourished while the other is healthy? You would try to make the malnourished child healthy but not try to reduce the health of the healthy child.
I agree resources are limited and I would be ok apportioning them on the basis of real and current needs. Equally important is to defuse ill will between groups through genuine efforts. It therefore has to really happen at the level of mind and spirit.
The above is what will promote and preserve harmony. That is focus as much on the inner needs as on physical needs and you will find the quality of life of people start improving exponentially. But sadly the exact reverse is happening.
Injustices of the past should not be corrected by again creating a new injustice. By this measure reservation system is not a proper idea. This will not foster any progress of mind. It will keep the wounds open and likely to worsen it. The best approach would be to foster progressive thoughts on both the oppressed and oppressor.
What would you do one of your two children who is malnourished while the other is healthy? You would try to make the malnourished child healthy but not try to reduce the health of the healthy child.
I agree resources are limited and I would be ok apportioning them on the basis of real and current needs. Equally important is to defuse ill will between groups through genuine efforts. It therefore has to really happen at the level of mind and spirit.
The above is what will promote and preserve harmony. That is focus as much on the inner needs as on physical needs and you will find the quality of life of people start improving exponentially. But sadly the exact reverse is happening.
Just catching up and responding.. Truth and reality does not have many interpretations. Ramanuja was primarily teaching/preaching theology. So are all dualist acharyas.
Those who talk about Sankara and describe stories about him have never studied his commentaries. In my Googling I came across a book which was a translation of a Sanskrit book that was written 100 years ago or so. I do not have reference for it because the content is beyond my comprehension and most of the people I come in contact with including in this forum.
But the main gist was that using Sankara's Bhashya and the teachings the author had refuted every one of the stories spun about his life or his teaching. This includes stories of Sankara vijayam or stories he worshiped a form or that he composed many slokas etc. Bhaja Govidam may be an exception.
I have access to one person who is expert in Sanskrit and Vedanta. I do not like to bother him often and he shared the same views.
In this forum I came across only two persons who claimed to have studied from the original Bhashya. One with whom I sparred turned out to be just a name dropper. I am thankful to him because he suggested me to look at original translation of Bhashya and I did buy a book as a result. Not that it is very helpful but gave an idea of depth needed
The other person is not very active and I have not had opportunity to debate though he answered some of my questions well.
So as a sincere student I suggest you to let go what you think you know and try to learn. That is the first step to tackle the ego. There is no issue in saying 'I dont know' like I am saying here. It is the beginning of wisdom.
++++ You can substitute word Sakshi with word God and that is how all religions describe without admitting they dont know anything . It becomes just a belief. Why did Sakshi create this with all these good and evil things. Please read Bertrand Russel's "Why I am not a christian' and he answers such issues well and refutes them It is hard to imagine how this Sakshi created all these - 100 million stars in a galaxy, billion galaxies. all these complext bio organisms etc. So net answer is we dont know after lots of words. The abstract concept called Sakshi which we do not know is called God in all religions. While I am learning and do not know much, this cannot be the teachings of Vedanta with what you have stated as interpretations because it is just the words of all dualistic religion, except for the use of the word Sakshi. Unless I am missing something in which case I can be corrected/
++++ The last line is fine.
If Observer side and observed sides are there, where is non-duality here? There are two realities - observed and observer. That is duality .. All three are some descriptions of duality, it seems
Thank you for your response. I have provided my reactions within the message itself. It was great exchanging views with you .. thank you
sravna
Well-known member
Your integrity is determined not only by self but also by the groups you belong to. I not surprised that people belonging to a certain nation talk only with veiled interests. That nation is a coward to the core and that reflects in its people. Good luck.
renuka
Well-known member
What surprises me if we find a particular text beyond our capacity to understand, that does not automatically translate as most others in forum wont understand it.
Weird right? Yet some feel they are logical and wonder why others talk of spiritual power.
Wonder what power that person used to come to the conclusion that hardly anyone in forum would be able to understand a text which he could not! Lol
I guess its his intuition! Yet others intuition is wrong.
Weird right? Yet some feel they are logical and wonder why others talk of spiritual power.
Wonder what power that person used to come to the conclusion that hardly anyone in forum would be able to understand a text which he could not! Lol
I guess its his intuition! Yet others intuition is wrong.
I have no clue what you are talking about. One must want to know the truth. If you want to then you have to do what it takes. That is integrity. It does not matter what anyone thinks.
You talk about Sankara - have you ever studied his commentaries? Have you done the work necessary to prepare yourself for the studies? Have you tried to proble if the stories about Sankara are true? Google is a tool like any tool. It is like going to a library. I am not talking about wasting time on blogs like the kinds you write. But rare books are also available. I do not have reference to the book I mentioned. Having read the comments you make here it is beyond your reach at this time.
What veiled interest are you talking about. Your ego is hurt because you do not have the courage to admit what you dont know so you can begin proper learning.
What nation are you talking about? There was no discussion of any nation.
I think you need help .. wish you all the best.
renuka
Well-known member
???
Well, I may not always agree with whatever Sravna writes but surprised to see the usage of the word ego.
I wonder how fast someone forgot that he used some form of intuition to arrive at the conclusion that a book he read but cant remember the title is supposed to be beyond the capacity of most of the forum members just because he could not understand it or remember the title.
What do we call that? Ego?
sravna
Well-known member
Dear a-TB,
No my ego has not been hurt. Why would it be? Do I see somebody's accomplishments as a threat or competition to me? Do I think that people cannot be more intelligent than me? Do I ensure that my selfish interests are tsken care of at any costs? Or in sum do I think I am exceptional and unique? None of these.
I was just mentioning as a matter of fact how people from a nation which thinks it is exceptional carry that attitude. When it has reached nothing more than the LKG of knowledge there is that delusion of omniscience.
If you have no clue to what I am talking about let that ignorance be bliss. People do understand who really needs help.
sravna
Well-known member
Renuka,
I find the clowns of a nation very amusing and entertaining. They know how to keep you smiling and laughing and enjoy doing that. You just have to understand some of the great pieces they have been enacting
There is nothing they do not know
There is nobody who can be more powerful
Only they can decide who should say what or do what
Whenever someone disagrees with the above they will deliver justice
Great narratives. True entertainers!
I find the clowns of a nation very amusing and entertaining. They know how to keep you smiling and laughing and enjoy doing that. You just have to understand some of the great pieces they have been enacting
There is nothing they do not know
There is nobody who can be more powerful
Only they can decide who should say what or do what
Whenever someone disagrees with the above they will deliver justice
Great narratives. True entertainers!
renuka
Well-known member
Dear Sravna,
As much as I felt his comment is unfair to you using the word ego etc..but I generally do not want to put the blame on a particular country.
There are good people in all countries and generally politicians of a country and their policies do not always represent the actual ideals of a nation.
Whether USA or India, generally the people have better ideals than the average politician .
Just a reminder..try not to be anti west because that would lead to a vasana and we would need to experience what we dislike.
Yad bhavam tad bhavati.
sravna
Well-known member
Yes Renuka I really hate to generalize. But I have to admit people if not politicians are sobering up and beginning to acknowledge that there can be talent outside of America too.
It is only in their ultimate interest that they not be unreasonably selfish and show some semblance of fairness.
They only will have to look back at history to understand the consequences if they do not do that. You cant hope to control other nations by your power and intelligence. You will find they are more than a match for you.
prasad1
Active member
There are ignorant and arrogant members and knowledgeable and humble people.
Others fall in the middle. We all know something, but may not be master of it, we are humble and accept our ignorance. But someone here thinks they are superior to others and dismisses them with contempt. It is laughable, but sad at the same time.
But I am digressing from the thread.
Others fall in the middle. We all know something, but may not be master of it, we are humble and accept our ignorance. But someone here thinks they are superior to others and dismisses them with contempt. It is laughable, but sad at the same time.
But I am digressing from the thread.
sravna
Well-known member
There are people who write here who are hard core believers in Science and nothing else and there are others who have an open mind. I am surprised that supposed hard core believers of science ask for the quotes from authorities to substantiate arguments when science itself progresses by negating or refining previous work.
I agree spirituality stands by different standards but personally I stick to the essence of authority figures as I believe in them but try to interpret in accordance with context.
The point is aren't these people who are really adherents of science showing double standards of the highest order when it comes to evaluating arguments?
I agree spirituality stands by different standards but personally I stick to the essence of authority figures as I believe in them but try to interpret in accordance with context.
The point is aren't these people who are really adherents of science showing double standards of the highest order when it comes to evaluating arguments?
prasad1
Active member
Bhaja Govindam was written by Jagadguru Adi Shankaracharya.
Bhaja -govindam is one of the minor compositions of the spiritual giant , Adi Shankaracharya. It is classified as a prakarana grantha, a primer to the major works. Though sung as a bhajan, it contains the essence of Vedanta and implores the man to think, Why am I here in this life ? Why am I amassing wealth, family, but have no peace ? What is the Truth ? What is the purpose of life ?
The person thus awakened gets set on a path to the inner roadback to the God principle .
The background of Bhaja Govindam is worth examining. During his stay in Kashi , Adi Shankaracharya noticed a very old man studying the rules of Sanskrit by Panini. Shankara was touched with pity at seeing the plight of the old man spending his years at a mere intellectual accomplishment while he would be better off praying and spending time to control his mind.
Shankara understood that the majority of the world was also engaged in mere intellectual, sense pleasures and not in the divine contemplation. Seeing this, he burst forth with the verses of Bhaja - Govindam . Shankara explains, nay chides, us for spending our time in useless trivia like amassing wealth, lusting after women and requests us to discriminate and cultivate the knowledge to learn the difference between the real and the unreal. To emphasize that, he concludes that all knowledge other than the Self-Knowledge is useless,
Shankara makes the person realize how foolish he/she is in the conduct and behaviour by these verses, and shows the purpose of our worldly existence, which is to seek Govinda and attain Him.
Bhaja govindam has been set to musical tones and sung as prayer songs by children. However, the significance of the text goes much deeper and contains a well defined philosophy of attaining salvation.
Shankara's words seem to be quite piercing and seem to lack thesoftness and tenderness often found in his other texts, thus addressing directly... The reason is that this was an extempore recital to an old man. His words can be compared to a knife of a surgeon. The surgeon's knife cruelly removes the tumour with much pain, but removing the tumour ultimately restores good health in the patient. So are Shankara's words, which pierce and point out our ignorance. It is a knife into the heart of worldliness, and by removing this tumour of ignorance, we can attain everlasting bliss with the grace of Govinda.
www.speakingtree.in
Bhaja -govindam is one of the minor compositions of the spiritual giant , Adi Shankaracharya. It is classified as a prakarana grantha, a primer to the major works. Though sung as a bhajan, it contains the essence of Vedanta and implores the man to think, Why am I here in this life ? Why am I amassing wealth, family, but have no peace ? What is the Truth ? What is the purpose of life ?
The person thus awakened gets set on a path to the inner roadback to the God principle .
The background of Bhaja Govindam is worth examining. During his stay in Kashi , Adi Shankaracharya noticed a very old man studying the rules of Sanskrit by Panini. Shankara was touched with pity at seeing the plight of the old man spending his years at a mere intellectual accomplishment while he would be better off praying and spending time to control his mind.
Shankara understood that the majority of the world was also engaged in mere intellectual, sense pleasures and not in the divine contemplation. Seeing this, he burst forth with the verses of Bhaja - Govindam . Shankara explains, nay chides, us for spending our time in useless trivia like amassing wealth, lusting after women and requests us to discriminate and cultivate the knowledge to learn the difference between the real and the unreal. To emphasize that, he concludes that all knowledge other than the Self-Knowledge is useless,
Shankara makes the person realize how foolish he/she is in the conduct and behaviour by these verses, and shows the purpose of our worldly existence, which is to seek Govinda and attain Him.
Bhaja govindam has been set to musical tones and sung as prayer songs by children. However, the significance of the text goes much deeper and contains a well defined philosophy of attaining salvation.
Shankara's words seem to be quite piercing and seem to lack thesoftness and tenderness often found in his other texts, thus addressing directly... The reason is that this was an extempore recital to an old man. His words can be compared to a knife of a surgeon. The surgeon's knife cruelly removes the tumour with much pain, but removing the tumour ultimately restores good health in the patient. So are Shankara's words, which pierce and point out our ignorance. It is a knife into the heart of worldliness, and by removing this tumour of ignorance, we can attain everlasting bliss with the grace of Govinda.
Philosophy Behind Bhaja- Govindam ..
prasad1
Active member
Shri Adi Shankracharya is one of the greatest gurus from India who established Advaita Vedanta – the non-dualistic philosophy in the 7 and 8th century. It is believed that, Shri Adi Shankara was an avatar of Lord Shiva. The story goes that, at one point of time, Sanatana Dharma (Vedic Culture) took a downfall due to various religious sub-sects, namely, Dvaita, Advaita and Vishishtadvaita. Lord Shiva took an incarnation as Adi Shankara at this time, who became the major proponent of Advaita philosophy and renounced all other Sanatana Dharmic sub-sects as to unite all of them.
Dvaita philosophy (dualism) considers one as a separate entity from God. Whereas in Advaita philosophy (non-dualism), one refers the Self / Soul as Atman and the Whole as Brahman – the universal consciousness. This philosophy propounds that the world is an illusion and that the Soul and the God are one. Vishistadwaita (qualified non-dualism), emphasis that the individual soul is part and parcel of the super soul, but they are not exactly the same.
Though Adi Shankara left his physical body at the age of 32, he travelled extensively through out India denouncing various false practices. He wrote many books, out all of that, Bhaja Govindam stands out. This small poem (sloka) which is classified as a प्रकरण ग्रन्थ (prakarana grantha – a primer to major work) has vast meaning. The poem contains the essence of Vedanta and is telling us to, ‘Wake up, seek the Lord. Stop seeking out for primitive things in life. Stop seeking for unessential and superficial things in life…”
The Bhaja Govindam emerged when Adi Shankaracharya was on a journey by foot with his disciples and chanced upon a very old man, for mere intellectual accomplishments, studying the rules of ancient Sanskrit grammar – व्याकरण (vyakarana). Sanskrit grammar is a very difficult subject to learn. This old man who is in the twilight of his life was spending all of his time trying to learn the grammar rules. Noticing that this old man was still learning the very basic grammar, Adi Shankaracharya took pity on him and said, ‘At this ripe old age, learning vyakarana / grammar rules, is not worthwhile. Thus, but please get up, don’t be foolish. Don’t waste your life this way!’ and then sings the Bhaja Govindam.
Though sung as a Bhajan, the tone of Bhaja Govindam could be somewhat striking, however, it is out of his sheer love that Adi Shankara calls the old man, “Muudamathe” (Oh! Fool!). Adi Shankara understands the urgency in awakening the man from his slumber and that a milder approach would not have sufficed.
trueindology.com
Dvaita philosophy (dualism) considers one as a separate entity from God. Whereas in Advaita philosophy (non-dualism), one refers the Self / Soul as Atman and the Whole as Brahman – the universal consciousness. This philosophy propounds that the world is an illusion and that the Soul and the God are one. Vishistadwaita (qualified non-dualism), emphasis that the individual soul is part and parcel of the super soul, but they are not exactly the same.
Though Adi Shankara left his physical body at the age of 32, he travelled extensively through out India denouncing various false practices. He wrote many books, out all of that, Bhaja Govindam stands out. This small poem (sloka) which is classified as a प्रकरण ग्रन्थ (prakarana grantha – a primer to major work) has vast meaning. The poem contains the essence of Vedanta and is telling us to, ‘Wake up, seek the Lord. Stop seeking out for primitive things in life. Stop seeking for unessential and superficial things in life…”
The Bhaja Govindam emerged when Adi Shankaracharya was on a journey by foot with his disciples and chanced upon a very old man, for mere intellectual accomplishments, studying the rules of ancient Sanskrit grammar – व्याकरण (vyakarana). Sanskrit grammar is a very difficult subject to learn. This old man who is in the twilight of his life was spending all of his time trying to learn the grammar rules. Noticing that this old man was still learning the very basic grammar, Adi Shankaracharya took pity on him and said, ‘At this ripe old age, learning vyakarana / grammar rules, is not worthwhile. Thus, but please get up, don’t be foolish. Don’t waste your life this way!’ and then sings the Bhaja Govindam.
Though sung as a Bhajan, the tone of Bhaja Govindam could be somewhat striking, however, it is out of his sheer love that Adi Shankara calls the old man, “Muudamathe” (Oh! Fool!). Adi Shankara understands the urgency in awakening the man from his slumber and that a milder approach would not have sufficed.
The Bhaja Govindam of Shri Adi Shankaracharya
Bhaja Govindam: Lyrics Bhaja Govindam: Listen on YouTube Bhaja Govindam: Meaning in English Shri Adi Shankracharya is one of the greatest gurus from India who established Advaita Vedanta – th…
trueindology.com
renuka
Well-known member
One may ask why Shankara chose to use the Ashtadyayi sutra dukren karane?
Dukren karane is the sutra to derive the root word कृ( kR) ..which in turn gives rise to words meaning to do
eg karoti),doing( karanam) ,kriya, karma etc.
So why did he choose this sutra?
Is it merely to keep in tune with the meter?
Not really! Cos its in this stanza Adi Shankara actually does not keep in the rules of the meter but all other stanzas follow the rules of the meter.
the 1st verse of Bhajo Govindam.
Bhajagovindam Bhajagovindam
Govindam Bhaja Moodhamathe
Samprapte Sannihite Kaale
Nahi Nahi Rakshati Dukrinkarane.
Bhajo Govindam comes under Matra Chandas that too a subtype named Padakulakam in which each verse has 4 lines that has 16 matras each
Now..the 2nd line does NOT follow the 16 matra rule...the 2nd line "Govindam Bhaja Moodhamathe "only has 14 matras
The 3rd and 4th line follow 16 matras.
So why did Shankara choose the Dukren Karane sutra?
Is it just because the man he met was memorizing that sutra?
Or is there a hidden message?
I wrote earlier that the
root word कृ( kR) ...gives rise to words meaning to do
eg karoti),doing( karanam) ,kriya, karma etc.
So was Shankara hinting to us
" Hey guys! What ever you do( root word कृ) will not liberate you in the time of need ..only contemplating on the name of God will liberate you"
For those not too comfortable with the idea of God might actually prefer to understand the word Govinda.
What is Govinda?
Govinda is a combination of Go and Vindate/Vindati
Vindate/ Vindati means " to find".
The word Go has many meanings..
eg.
Cow, sky,ray of light,diamond, the earth,water, the eye,a mother, speech, senses, the sky and at times even denoted by some as to mean Veda as in knowledge.
I guess we can put 2 and 2 together now..surely for liberation one needs to gain divine knowledge and contemplate on that.
Dukren karane is the sutra to derive the root word कृ( kR) ..which in turn gives rise to words meaning to do
eg karoti),doing( karanam) ,kriya, karma etc.
So why did he choose this sutra?
Is it merely to keep in tune with the meter?
Not really! Cos its in this stanza Adi Shankara actually does not keep in the rules of the meter but all other stanzas follow the rules of the meter.
the 1st verse of Bhajo Govindam.
Bhajagovindam Bhajagovindam
Govindam Bhaja Moodhamathe
Samprapte Sannihite Kaale
Nahi Nahi Rakshati Dukrinkarane.
Bhajo Govindam comes under Matra Chandas that too a subtype named Padakulakam in which each verse has 4 lines that has 16 matras each
Now..the 2nd line does NOT follow the 16 matra rule...the 2nd line "Govindam Bhaja Moodhamathe "only has 14 matras
The 3rd and 4th line follow 16 matras.
So why did Shankara choose the Dukren Karane sutra?
Is it just because the man he met was memorizing that sutra?
Or is there a hidden message?
I wrote earlier that the
root word कृ( kR) ...gives rise to words meaning to do
eg karoti),doing( karanam) ,kriya, karma etc.
So was Shankara hinting to us
" Hey guys! What ever you do( root word कृ) will not liberate you in the time of need ..only contemplating on the name of God will liberate you"
For those not too comfortable with the idea of God might actually prefer to understand the word Govinda.
What is Govinda?
Govinda is a combination of Go and Vindate/Vindati
Vindate/ Vindati means " to find".
The word Go has many meanings..
eg.
Cow, sky,ray of light,diamond, the earth,water, the eye,a mother, speech, senses, the sky and at times even denoted by some as to mean Veda as in knowledge.
I guess we can put 2 and 2 together now..surely for liberation one needs to gain divine knowledge and contemplate on that.
sravna
Well-known member
Beautiful analysis Renuka! You seem to be really well versed in Sanskrit.
renuka
Well-known member
Learning about Chandas( meters) was part of the exam I sat for.
Meters are very mathematical..those who like maths will enjoy this.
I used to teach Sanskrit too but after Covid 19 pandemic I had to put my classes on hold as I dont like online teaching.
Also after the pandemic I myself started to feel that Sanskrit is only for my mind.
Its high time I myself just focus on God and Bhajo Govindam because my knowledge in Sanskrit or any other language wont liberate me.
But if the discussion is relevant I would use Sanskrit for analysis.
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