Brahma Sutras

[tks]

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Dear TKS ji,

I dont know if I would agree with your post.

If going by your list Ratnakara would have never become Valmiki.

I feel it is actually hard to judge anyone as being qualified to study Vedanta or pursue a religious study.

Each of us humans come with our Prarabdha Karma which is going on and may be after the effect expires the person becomes fit for study for anything.

May be Valmiki's Prarabhda ended the day he met Narada.

So we would really have no idea who is fit for what..I feel each human has potential within and deciding who is fit or unfit for study might just make a person lose out a chance to bloom.

There is always a Eureka moment for each person..where he transforms from Sinner to Saint.

The duty of a Guru is to give equal opportunity to all and make his garden bloom with the flowers of Jnaana.

Dr Renu

The list does not exclude anyone by birth or any other characteristics on which they have no control over
It is an expression of levels of maturity that one has to achieve by effort for any of the teachings to be meaningful.
Valmiki example does not apply.
There is no judgement of others involved - only self introspection (I think I stated that explicitly)

Regards

 

[sangom]

Dear TKS ji,

I dont know if I would agree with your post.

If going by your list Ratnakara would have never become Valmiki.

I feel it is actually hard to judge anyone as being qualified to study Vedanta or pursue a religious study.

Each of us humans come with our Prarabdha Karma which is going on and may be after the effect expires the person becomes fit for study for anything.

May be Valmiki's Prarabhda ended the day he met Narada.

So we would really have no idea who is fit for what..I feel each human has potential within and deciding who is fit or unfit for study might just make a person lose out a chance to bloom.

There is always a Eureka moment for each person..where he transforms from Sinner to Saint.

The duty of a Guru is to give equal opportunity to all and make his garden bloom with the flowers of Jnaana.

Smt. Renuka,

If we consider that "each of us humans come with some Praarabdha Karma...etc." instead of saying "each of us humans come with our Praarabdha Karma...etc.", I feel that line of thinking will open a new window. The problem is most religions do not allow such a line, and hindu religion is very strict in emphasizing the "mine (मम)" ideology very very strongly. I hold that in fact not even the Karmas may not be owned by one, but he/she during this present life has to experience the results of a lot of Karmas - of the past and also of the current life. Balance carried forward will be experienced by somebody else with some different identity somewhere, sometime; we do not know about this chain at all.

Spiritual development (as Shri Sravna refers to often) or maturity depends on not becoming irresponsible because of believing in the above principle and leading one's life as though the results of all one's Karma will befall him in the present life itself.

 

[Vaagmi]

Renukaji,

If we consider that "each of us humans come with some Praarabdha Karma...etc." instead of saying "each of us humans come with our Praarabdha Karma...etc.", I feel that line of thinking will open a new window. The problem is most religions do not allow such a line, and hindu religion is very strict in emphasizing the "mine (मम)" ideology very very strongly. I hold that in fact not even the Karmas may not be owned by one, but he/she during this present life has to experience the results of a lot of Karmas - of the past and also of the current life. Balance carried forward will be experienced by somebody else with some different identity somewhere, sometime; we do not know about this chain at all.
Spiritual development (as Shri Sravna refers to often) or maturity depends on not becoming irresponsible because of believing in the above principle and leading one's life as though the results of all one's Karma will befall him in the present life itself.

Please let me say this. If there is only a universal consciousness and the summum bonum of life on earth is to realise this and live in it, dont you think the above pragraphs suggest this:

one small speck of the universal consciousness (UC) earns some karma points and adds it to the large corpus already owned by the UC. Another part of this UC enjoys the fruit of it in time and space at another level (may be lower if maya is accepted). So the milechas keep adding karma points (with the killings they indulge in in the name of nationalism, religion, isms, mad cows etc) and the poor satviks in India suffer from various ailments including an unmanageable thoppai and the BP and insulin dependence caused by it. LOL.

 

[krsganesh0819]

Good discussion. What is the name of the book, Sravna?
Also it would be nice if we can have some of you seniors sharing thoughts and lessons from topics like the Apsthamba Sutra, Dharma sastra, etc....

 

[tks]

Dr Renu

The list does not exclude anyone by birth or any other characteristics on which they have no control over
It is an expression of levels of maturity that one has to achieve by effort for any of the teachings to be meaningful.
Valmiki example does not apply.
There is no judgement of others involved - only self introspection (I think I stated that explicitly)

Regards

Let me share some more thoughts before moving on.

In the Karma model there are a few terms - one is Prarabdha Karma associated with the Sukshma Sharira (Subtle body is a term used sometimes) and the other relevant for discussion here is Samskaram (character and propensity for certain actions shaped by past experience prior to taking this birth)

Our true identity is not tied to any of these bodies (Gross body or subtle body). In that sense this gross body which will disintegrate upon death is not 'ours' since it is a temporary rental place for the subtle body and both are constantly under repair. We are just a witness to both

The disintegration of subtle body does not happen at death. It is held together by Karmic Glue in this model. If a person is engaged in Dharmic activities the person in the next human birth is likely to seize similar opportunities due to the initial Samskaram.

For example someone may follow this thread and suddenly find the need to dig deeper in a life changing manner

The study of Vedanta is all about becoming more mature. Like any serious study this requires preparations which includes some knowledge and more importantly practices for emotional growth.

In mid 1970s I was traveling in South India and became sick. My aunt took me to a Doctor and said this fellow is great with patients. He never studied to become a Doctor and started out as a compounder who on his own became a Doctor. He was known to give one injection and people always get cured whatever they have.

For some reason I did not visit this person. I hope we dont have such "Doctors" anymore ...Satisfying pre-requisites is key for any study .. The maturity continuum is one way to assess pre-requisites by an individual.

There are no Gurus here to evaluate anyone

The maturity model I wrote up is using new words to describe old / tested ideas. One can grow in maturity by learning Puranic stories with underlying significance, then graduate to studying the select verses from B.Gita before embarking on serious study of Vedanta.

In today's world people want quick fixes and there is this notion that this topic is something one can jump into much like anyone being able to become a Medical Doctor in the 70s ..

Even in 19th century the barbers used to become Medical Doctors in Europe ..
When one understands a topic of serious study that is well organized satisfied pre-requisites will help make the learning easier and also help one to be more precise even while being informal.

Many people just use all kinds of words like reflection and projection to name a few that makes the whole topic of Vedanta like a joke.

What I wrote under the banner of maturity continuum is just common sense. If someone is basically fooling themselves and others they cannot take up such a study.

All religions cater to our pursuits of Security and desires. Some are pursued by Dharmic means and others are not even with sanctions of religious traditions. I am not restricting these comments to only Hindu religion only.

Study of Vedanta is meaningful only when a person is ready to grow out of pursuits of security and desires with or without the sanction of religion. Much of Vedas cater to those pursuits and Security and Desires so Vedanta is not for someone steeped in desires and doing all kinds of rituals to achieve them.

A term used to describe this state when we do not care for these pursuits is Vairagya which is NOT about denial. I usually do not like to use terms if there is simple way to describe the thought.

There is another term used to describe for a person ready to undertake study of this kind and that is Jignasu... Pardon my typos .. I am traveling and doing the best with this device I have

Hopefully none of what I have written above is new to many people.

On to my next post when I find time ..

 

[renuka]

Renukaji,



Please let me say this. If there is only a universal consciousness and the summum bonum of life on earth is to realise this and live in it, dont you think the above pragraphs suggest this:

one small speck of the universal consciousness (UC) earns some karma points and adds it to the large corpus already owned by the UC. Another part of this UC enjoys the fruit of it in time and space at another level (may be lower if maya is accepted). So the milechas keep adding karma points (with the killings they indulge in in the name of nationalism, religion, isms, mad cows etc) and the poor satviks in India suffer from various ailments including an unmanageable thoppai and the BP and insulin dependence caused by it. LOL.

Dear Vaagmi ji,

This post you quoted was written by Sangom ji..so I am wondering why you are asking me about it??

Anyway since you asked me..well to a certain extent there is something called collective karma which is not that easy to understand too.

But as you wrote I wonder how will someone guy killing an another person cause some guy in India to become obese and be insulin dependent?

So you have opened up a new way of managing patients for me..that means the source of all the hypertension and diabetes is becos of lifestyle of killings done in some far off dessert land!

So that means no one needs drugs and insulin..just get all those guys who are killing others into jail..then everyone will be healthy again..no more unmanageable Thoppai..only Six packs for all!LOL

 

[tks]

Dear Vaagmi ji,

This post you quoted was written by Sangom ji..so I am wondering why you are asking me about it??

Anyway since you asked me..well to a certain extent there is something called collective karma which is not that easy to understand too.

But as you wrote I wonder how will someone guy killing an another person cause some guy in India to become obese and be insulin dependent?

So you have opened up a new way of managing patients for me..that means the source of all the hypertension and diabetes is becos of lifestyle of killings done in some far off dessert land!

So that means no one needs drugs and insulin..just get all those guys who are killing others into jail..then everyone will be healthy again..no more unmanageable Thoppai..only Six packs for all!LOL

Dr Renu - Now you are being brought out like that parrot

 

[Nara]

Entropy is on the rise, imbeciles are pontificating, the self promoting clueless are laying down rules to understand the musings of people who thought the earth was held aloft by eight elephants... Brhmma sutra today, brhmma sutra tomorrow, brhmma sutra forever......

 

[renuka]

Dr Renu - Now you are being brought out like that parrot

The Parrot comes out..takes a Tarot,
Goes into the box and has a carrot,
In and out of a box..mimics the logic of life,
Cycle repeats till one conquers Brahman's bride.

 

[sravna]

The Parrot comes out..takes a Tarot,
Goes into the box and has a carrot,
In and out of a box..mimics the logic of life,
Cycle repeats till one conquers Brahman's bride.

Dear Renuka,

No body else can conquer Brahman's bride. Maya is so faithful to brahman.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

No body else can conquer Brahman's bride. Maya is so faithful to brahman.

Aiyoo Sravna..I am not asking anyone to marry Maya(Brahman's Bride)!

What I meant that when a person conquers Maya as going beyond Maya..he realizes Brahman.

 

[tbs]

Aiyoo Sravna..I am not asking anyone to marry Maya(Brahman's Bride)!

What I meant that when a person conquers Maya as going beyond Maya..he realizes Brahman.

hi renu

everybody under the influence of Maya............MAAAAAAAAAAAA .....yaaaaaa....means mama iti bhaavaha......

 

[Vaagmi]

Dr Renu - Now you are being brought out like that parrot

Lo. That is going to make news. A kili making the Josyan a kili. LOL.

The Parrot comes out..takes a Tarot,
Goes into the box and has a carrot,
In and out of a box..mimics the logic of life,
Cycle repeats till one conquers Brahman's bride

.

The original parrot will never forgive the handler if he were to give it carrot. The parrot will die of carrot poisoning. It is happy with its small grains rhyming or not rhyming. For a beginning the parrot has succeeded in bringing out the poet in the Doctor and waits for brahman's bride to leave it alone.

 

[Vaagmi]

Entropy is on the rise, imbeciles are pontificating, the self promoting clueless are laying down rules to understand the musings of people who thought the earth was held aloft by eight elephants... Brhmma sutra today, brhmma sutra tomorrow, brhmma sutra forever......

And Budhdhas keep getting out of their stupor to come here to leave their droppings. LOL.

 

[sangom]

Renukaji,



Please let me say this. If there is only a universal consciousness and the summum bonum of life on earth is to realise this and live in it, dont you think the above pragraphs suggest this:

one small speck of the universal consciousness (UC) earns some karma points and adds it to the large corpus already owned by the UC. Another part of this UC enjoys the fruit of it in time and space at another level (may be lower if maya is accepted). So the milechas keep adding karma points (with the killings they indulge in in the name of nationalism, religion, isms, mad cows etc) and the poor satviks in India suffer from various ailments including an unmanageable thoppai and the BP and insulin dependence caused by it. LOL.

I agree with much of the above, except that the UC or a speck of it never "earns" any Karma. It merely produces Karma to be experienced. I feel it will be easier to understand the BG verses like:

कर्मण्येवाधिकारस्ते मा फलेषु कदाचन । मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भुर्मा ते संगोऽस्त्वकर्मणि ||

न मां कर्माणि लिम्पन्ति न मे कर्मफले स्पृहा। इति मां योऽभिजानाति कर्मभिर्न स बध्यते॥4-14॥
etc.

 

[tks]

Let me share some more thoughts before moving on.

In the Karma model there are a few terms - one is Prarabdha Karma associated with the Sukshma Sharira (Subtle body is a term used sometimes) and the other relevant for discussion here is Samskaram (character and propensity for certain actions shaped by past experience prior to taking this birth)

Our true identity is not tied to any of these bodies (Gross body or subtle body). In that sense this gross body which will disintegrate upon death is not 'ours' since it is a temporary rental place for the subtle body and both are constantly under repair. We are just a witness to both

The disintegration of subtle body does not happen at death. It is held together by Karmic Glue in this model. If a person is engaged in Dharmic activities the person in the next human birth is likely to seize similar opportunities due to the initial Samskaram.

For example someone may follow this thread and suddenly find the need to dig deeper in a life changing manner

The study of Vedanta is all about becoming more mature. Like any serious study this requires preparations which includes some knowledge and more importantly practices for emotional growth.

In mid 1970s I was traveling in South India and became sick. My aunt took me to a Doctor and said this fellow is great with patients. He never studied to become a Doctor and started out as a compounder who on his own became a Doctor. He was known to give one injection and people always get cured whatever they have.

For some reason I did not visit this person. I hope we dont have such "Doctors" anymore ...Satisfying pre-requisites is key for any study .. The maturity continuum is one way to assess pre-requisites by an individual.

There are no Gurus here to evaluate anyone

The maturity model I wrote up is using new words to describe old / tested ideas. One can grow in maturity by learning Puranic stories with underlying significance, then graduate to studying the select verses from B.Gita before embarking on serious study of Vedanta.

In today's world people want quick fixes and there is this notion that this topic is something one can jump into much like anyone being able to become a Medical Doctor in the 70s ..

Even in 19th century the barbers used to become Medical Doctors in Europe ..
When one understands a topic of serious study that is well organized satisfied pre-requisites will help make the learning easier and also help one to be more precise even while being informal.

Many people just use all kinds of words like reflection and projection to name a few that makes the whole topic of Vedanta like a joke.

What I wrote under the banner of maturity continuum is just common sense. If someone is basically fooling themselves and others they cannot take up such a study.

All religions cater to our pursuits of Security and desires. Some are pursued by Dharmic means and others are not even with sanctions of religious traditions. I am not restricting these comments to only Hindu religion only.

Study of Vedanta is meaningful only when a person is ready to grow out of pursuits of security and desires with or without the sanction of religion. Much of Vedas cater to those pursuits and Security and Desires so Vedanta is not for someone steeped in desires and doing all kinds of rituals to achieve them.

A term used to describe this state when we do not care for these pursuits is Vairagya which is NOT about denial. I usually do not like to use terms if there is simple way to describe the thought.

There is another term used to describe for a person ready to undertake study of this kind and that is Jignasu... Pardon my typos .. I am traveling and doing the best with this device I have

Hopefully none of what I have written above is new to many people.

On to my next post when I find time ..

Few more comments.

In the above post descriptions of Karma is but a model and falls under the domain of belief system.

We see that all living things eventually die. In fact regardless of an entitiy being living or non-living we find that anything that is assembled by parts always disintegrate. This is our experience and there is no proof for this.

There was a news item recently that an executive at Google claims to plan for immortality and pops over 150 pills a day

Ray Kurzweil shares plans for immortality | Mail Online

It is more interesting to note that human beings want to believe they can live forever!
(PB is postulated to be without parts ..)

We see that there is an experience of life force until a living entity becomes non--living. This defines the notion of a subtle body.

Whether subtle body travels to another gross body or not and its eventual disintegration is subject to belief system only.


When dealing with belief systems what would make sense is if the belief is 'reasonable'. Some criteria needed to assess reasonableness is that it cannot violate existing laws and has to be useful. Once could also expect to have logic applicable to process the belief without reaching contradictions.

The Karma model can be explained to have a basis though not a proof. It meets the test of reasonableness.

Even in subject matter of science the idea that there might have a been a Big Bang (all this world arising out of a single point) is a matter of belief only.

This is like existence of a non-dual entity called Brahman which is a cause for all that we see. This is a starting point and a postulate which is what the first Sutra described.More later ...

 

[tks]

I agree with much of the above, except that the UC or a speck of it never "earns" any Karma. It merely produces Karma to be experienced. I feel it will be easier to understand the BG verses like:

कर्मण्येवाधिकारस्ते मा फलेषु कदाचन । मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भुर्मा ते संगोऽस्त्वकर्मणि ||

न मां कर्माणि लिम्पन्ति न मे कर्मफले स्पृहा। इति मां योऽभिजानाति कर्मभिर्न स बध्यते॥4-14॥
etc.

Let me suggest why Vedic vision is not aligned with this view.

All entities that are put together with parts are known to eventually disintegrate and change. This is our experience. Every item in this universe including the black holes will disintegrate at some time.

An entity can be beyond space and time if and only if it is an indivisible whole without any attributes. If UC produces another entity called Karma then it will not meet the above criteria and is subject to change.

UC/PB is postulated Nirguna and indivisible into any parts.
(Separate discussion but related point is that Atma is neither a doer of action nor enjoyer of action)

BG verse cited can be understood in a consistent manner within the Vedic vision of Atma/PB/Jiva. In other words no new model is needed to make sense out of that BG verse.

I know the question still remains as to how Nirguna PB can be a cause for this Jagat. Will get to it

 

[sravna]

An entity can be beyond space and time if and only if it is an indivisible whole without any attributes. If UC produces another entity called Karma then it will not meet the above criteria and is subject to change.

Dear Shri TKS,

I agree that an entity such as PB can be beyond space and time if only it is indivisible and without any attributes. It is just not only indivisible but space doesn't exist for it. But it is my view that something can exist because of such a PB and the PB need not change in any way for such an entity to exist.

Anyway you have said that you will give your views on that issue . So let me wait for your further views.

 

[Vaagmi]

Let me suggest why Vedic vision is not aligned with this view.
All entities that are put together with parts are known to eventually disintegrate and change. This is our experience. Every item in this universe including the black holes will disintegrate at some time.
An entity can be beyond space and time if and only if it is an indivisible whole without any attributes. If UC produces another entity called Karma then it will not meet the above criteria and is subject to change.
UC/PB is postulated Nirguna and indivisible into any parts.
(Separate discussion but related point is that Atma is neither a doer of action nor enjoyer of action)
BG verse cited can be understood in a consistent manner within the Vedic vision of Atma/PB/Jiva. In other words no new model is needed to make sense out of that BG verse.
I know the question still remains as to how Nirguna PB can be a cause for this Jagat. Will get to it

Some musings on the quoted para:

All entities that are put together with parts are known to eventually disintegrate and change. This is our experience. Every item in this universe including the black holes will disintegrate at some time.

Will this not be untrue if what appears to be an assembled entity really happens to be just a manifestation of the UC itself? Like the sweet potato young plantling which peeps out of the ground with just two small tender leaves after a fresh shower in my field of sweet potato crop. It is just the manifestation of the mother plant and not an assembled thing. Similarly if all the lives in the universe can also be manifestation of the UC with an invisible umbilical connection that we can see in the case of the S Potato in my field. Are there not sufficient reason to believe that the lives are the manifestations of an underlying whole or gross entity. We see so much similarity and repetion in the way the individual entities appear to have been assembled, the way they behave while they are active or passive, even the basic building blocks with which they are built and the way in which the architecture has been laid out with the same type of mortor and binding force-all this certainly indicates an underlying connectivity which is not visible to us. Instead of looking at the disintegration as disintegration and disappearance, I would look at it as merging with the underlying gross to again manifest somewhere else. I am not able to see entities as assembled ones which breakdown at some point and disintegrate. They are rather the gross showing up and withdrawing like I point out with my finger and fold it back.

The rest of what is said in the quoted para are assertions which can be questioned. I hold back and would wait for further spreading out. Thanks.

 

[tks]

Dear Shri TKS,

I agree that an entity such as PB can be beyond space and time if only it is indivisible and without any attributes. It is just not only indivisible but space doesn't exist for it. But it is my view that something can exist because of such a PB and the PB need not change in any way for such an entity to exist.

Anyway you have said that you will give your views on that issue . So let me wait for your further views.

I may not have communicated well. I am not sharing my views ..
I am sharing my understanding of Sri Sankara's teaching as explained in his Bhashyas (using my notes). I may do so using my own style but that is about it.

I can make mistakes in my understanding but they are not attempts to create my view since subjects of serious studies does not lend itself for us to create our own views unless we have mastered key aspects of what is already taught (by Acharyas) and we have truly earned the rights to present our views.

Having said this let me say that PB by definition gives rise to space and time. The key question is how such a PB can give rise to qualifications oriented words while not changing itself. It is not a matter of belief or assertions or any personal view but an explanation based on what is already taught.

By the way, Swami Vivekananda if I remember right has provided the kind of explanation I shared. I am not going to reasearch to provide specific references but spending time reading his collected works is useful to serious students in my view as a starting point.

Rather than present your views and beliefs which is likely to be incorrect you can phrase them as questions like Sri Vaagmi is doing (or he could share his understanding of Sri Ramanuja's views)

 

[sravna]

Some musings on the quoted para:



Will this not be untrue if what appears to be an assembled entity really happens to be just a manifestation of the UC itself? Like the sweet potato young plantling which peeps out of the ground with just two small tender leaves after a fresh shower in my field of sweet potato crop. It is just the manifestation of the mother plant and not an assembled thing. Similarly if all the lives in the universe can also be manifestation of the UC with an invisible umbilical connection that we can see in the case of the S Potato in my field. Are there not sufficient reason to believe that the lives are the manifestations of an underlying whole or gross entity. We see so much similarity and repetion in the way the individual entities appear to have been assembled, the way they behave while they are active or passive, even the basic building blocks with which they are built and the way in which the architecture has been laid out with the same type of mortor and binding force-all this certainly indicates an underlying connectivity which is not visible to us. Instead of looking at the disintegration as disintegration and disappearance, I would look at it as merging with the underlying gross to again manifest somewhere else. I am not able to see entities as assembled ones which breakdown at some point and disintegrate. They are rather the gross showing up and withdrawing like I point out with my finger and fold it back.

The rest of what is said in the quoted para are assertions which can be questioned. I hold back and would wait for further spreading out. Thanks.

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

It would make sense for all the matter to evolve in to a higher stage of consciousness i.,e the mind and then evolve further to become one with the universal consciousness. So matter cannot stay as such and its main purpose I think is to assemble with other matter and produce a higher consciousness due to synergy, such as the physical body producing the mind. So we have a mix of mind and matter in the universe with everything finally evolving into the universal consciousness. Actually what is seen as evolution is only the unfolding and folding back of the already existing UC in space and time. Advaita says it as the projection followed by deprojection of the world by maya.

 

[tks]

Some musings on the quoted para:



Will this not be untrue if what appears to be an assembled entity really happens to be just a manifestation of the UC itself? Like the sweet potato young plantling which peeps out of the ground with just two small tender leaves after a fresh shower in my field of sweet potato crop. It is just the manifestation of the mother plant and not an assembled thing. Similarly if all the lives in the universe can also be manifestation of the UC with an invisible umbilical connection that we can see in the case of the S Potato in my field. Are there not sufficient reason to believe that the lives are the manifestations of an underlying whole or gross entity. We see so much similarity and repetion in the way the individual entities appear to have been assembled, the way they behave while they are active or passive, even the basic building blocks with which they are built and the way in which the architecture has been laid out with the same type of mortor and binding force-all this certainly indicates an underlying connectivity which is not visible to us. Instead of looking at the disintegration as disintegration and disappearance, I would look at it as merging with the underlying gross to again manifest somewhere else. I am not able to see entities as assembled ones which breakdown at some point and disintegrate. They are rather the gross showing up and withdrawing like I point out with my finger and fold it back.

The rest of what is said in the quoted para are assertions which can be questioned. I hold back and would wait for further spreading out. Thanks.

One can postulate anything as a starting point. For example the biblical religions postulate that there is a God in heaven who created all this world by his magical powers.

Since if God is the only entity in the 'beginning' we have difficulty to accept that something can be created out of nothing.

In fact for explanation purposes Brhaman is postulated to be the material cause as well manifesting in all that we sense. (eventually in this teaching material cause and efficient causes are also dispensed away)

Everything in the world we sense is subject to change and it appears that entities that are assembled are subject to change.

Your sweet potato is made up for cells which are assembled with atoms etc.It is subject to change over time.

The entire Jagat is changing constantly. In fact the meaning of the word Jagat is that it is one that is in constant change. And it is assembled by parts. We thought atoms were those parts until atoms were smashed and learnt that atoms can decay (radioactive)...

We know subatomic particles are not final units of matter.

Are the strings (loops of vibrating energy that is beyond ability to measure and vibrating in n-dimensional space (ne being greater than 4) ) really the units? We do not know yet.

Also we do not know all the connectedness that exist in how something is assembled and every unit of assembly may be traced back to Brahman since it is postulated to be the material cause. But Brahman itself is unchanging since there is no further subdivision of the 'material'.

The definition of Brahman which is one without second is not like any other entity we sense.

I am open to hearing your other objections at this point and also listen to SV views.

Regards

 

[Vaagmi]

One can postulate anything as a starting point. For example the biblical religions postulate that there is a God in heaven who created all this world by his magical powers.

Since if God is the only entity in the 'beginning' we have difficulty to accept that something can be created out of nothing.

In fact for explanation purposes Brhaman is postulated to be the material cause as well manifesting in all that we sense. (eventually in this teaching material cause and efficient causes are also dispensed away)

Everything in the world we sense is subject to change and it appears that entities that are assembled are subject to change.

Your sweet potato is made up for cells which are assembled with atoms etc.It is subject to change over time.

The entire Jagat is changing constantly. In fact the meaning of the word Jagat is that it is one that is in constant change. And it is assembled by parts. We thought atoms were those parts until atoms were smashed and learnt that atoms can decay (radioactive)...

We know subatomic particles are not final units of matter.

Are the strings (loops of vibrating energy that is beyond ability to measure and vibrating in n-dimensional space (ne being greater than 4) ) really the units? We do not know yet.

Also we do not know all the connectedness that exist in how something is assembled and every unit of assembly may be traced back to Brahman since it is postulated to be the material cause. But Brahman itself is unchanging since there is no further subdivision of the 'material'.

The definition of Brahman which is one without second is not like any other entity we sense.

I am open to hearing your other objections at this point and also listen to SV views.

Regards

Dear tks,

Thank you for your response. Let me think about it. I am only trying to walk along with you and understand the land you traverse. In the process, my interest is to look for validations for some of the insights I have gained over a period. I wont mind replacing them if the need arises as the search is continuing. As for the SV views and presenting them here, I am not sure for reasons I have already explained. It involves a lot of refuting and countering what is presented already and I am not sure how it will be received. Let us see. Thanks.

 

[sangom]

Reading some of the latest posts in this thread, made by the so-called and self-proclaimed "vidwans" and "Acharyas" of this Forum (one of whom has a fixation for 'gutters'!) I feel Shri Nara is a sort of "yadbhaviṣyaḥ"who could foresee:—

"Entropy is on the rise, imbeciles are pontificating, the self promoting clueless are laying down rules to understand the musings of people who thought the earth was held aloft by eight elephants..." (here)

The vedas, upanishads, dharmasastras, grihya sutras, srouta sutras, kalpa sutras, all have become superfluous to life today; yet here is discussion going on whether a component-less entity only can be everlasting, etc., and paramānanda guru's three śiṣyas (who brought a sewing needle from the market, by hammering it on a very huge log of wood, and lost the needle on the way) are trying to bring advaita to the readers, in a similar mode

 

[Vaagmi]

Reading some of the latest posts in this thread, made by the so-called and self-proclaimed "vidwans" and "Acharyas" of this Forum (one of whom has a fixation for 'gutters'!) I feel Shri Nara is a sort of "yadbhaviṣyaḥ"who could foresee:—

"Entropy is on the rise, imbeciles are pontificating, the self promoting clueless are laying down rules to understand the musings of people who thought the earth was held aloft by eight elephants..." (here)

The vedas, upanishads, dharmasastras, grihya sutras, srouta sutras, kalpa sutras, all have become superfluous to life today; yet here is discussion going on whether a component-less entity only can be everlasting, etc., and paramānanda guru's three śiṣyas (who brought a sewing needle from the market, by hammering it on a very huge log of wood, and lost the needle on the way) are trying to bring advaita to the readers, in a similar mode

Please refer to my post #388:

I had mentioned: And Budhdhas keep getting out of their stupor to come here to leave their droppings. LOL.


I thought I had made the word Budhdha a plural unnecessarily. Now I am happy I left it that way. The self appointed (just fresh and away from the gutter)"intellectual gems" of this forum whom I have mentioned as Budhdhas can not but come here frequently getting up from their stupor to spend time here indulging in mutual backslapping and to leave behind their droppings. LOL.