Brahmin hatred- not so latent

[ashwin_ash]

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I recently had the misfortune of riding an autorickshaw during my recent Chennai visit. The driver didn't turn up and I didn't want to hazard driving a stick shift, so I got into an auto. There were posters of Jayalalitha everywhere eulogizing her achievements. I casually enquired if so many posters were really needed.

The auto guy launched into a diatribe about "paarpans" (highly derogatory term for tambrams) and how "paarpans" need to be eliminated from Tamilnadu. He further elaborated as to how Jaya won from Srirangam solely due to "paarpan" votes (Iyengars form the majority there). He also said EVR should have crushed tambrams in their entirety.

I've experienced this attitude a lot in Chennai and north tamilnadu, and it is distressing to say the least. At some point in the 1970s, Karunanidhi gave a speech saying how his "Ravana brigade" will crush all tambrams. Someone gently pointed out that Ravana was a pious brahmin, and lots of asuras and rakshasas were brahmins too. Karuna didn't broach that topic again.

By and large, casteism is flourishing in TN, and Brahmins are seen as the culprits. This attitude has led to the near-extinction of the tambram community (palakkad iyers are predicted to go extinct in the next century, other tambrams may also have to meet a similar fate).

I wonder what our fault is, apart from being tambrams. The other twice-borns such as kshatriyas and vaisyas are not meted this treatment.

Where are we headed as a community, is disunity the cause of our plight? Tambrams have already migrated in droves, and it is scary to think about the fate of those who do not have the means to migrate.

 

[kunjuppu]

dear ashwin,

i too think of this occassionally. the good news is that not many of us are left (compared to what we once were).

there is a significant number of rich and very rich. you dont have to worry about them. they know how to take care of themselves. Hindu paper family is now MK's sambandhi. India Cements is AVM's sambandhi. so with calculated inter marriage they have protected their wealth and safety.

the poor are non threatening, though most vulnerable to physical assaults. also they are probably the least inclined to move or able to move outside of tamil nadu. from what i hear, there are hardly any brahmins left in the southern districts. and only pockets in thanjavur and the bulk in chennai. i would say chennai is safe as we still can get enough protection if need be. and the andhra border is only 40 kms away at gudur.

the middle class is busy sending its children abroad. many girls from middle class are marrying IC. the middle class boys unmarried are probably the largest section of unmarried tambram bachelors.

so, all in all, we are dealing with a dire situation, in a quiet, but intelligent way. much better than what the jews handled the nazis. or is that an unfair and inappropriate comparison? i dont know.

the biggest defuse of brahmin hatred has been the dravidian rise to power. power corrupts and all of them have become corrupted. another new movement, tamil desiyam is busy gunning the dravidians. that does not mean tamil desiyam has much love for us. mainly because of cho hinduram subswamy - these guys are anti ltte and tamil desiyam is tied to ltte at its hips. otherwise the original tamil desiyam acknowledged that along with nadars dalits vanniars gounders, tambrams were also ancient tamils right from sangam age.

i follow all these movements very closely out of interest. some call me a brahmin basher for putting info about others. so be it . i too care about tambrams. but hate manu smriti and old fashioned brahminism and prejudices that goes along with it. if you read my past posts, you can understand where i am coming from. cheers!!

 

[Nara]

Here we go again, bring out the மாவு, இன்னும் கொஞ்சம் அரைக்கலாம்

 

[ashwin_ash]

Here we go again, bring out the மாவு, இன்னும் கொஞ்சம் அரைக்கலாம்

Since when has any truth been sweet? Only this time, the hatred seems to have assumed dangerous overtones.

 

[kunjuppu]

Since when has any truth been sweet? Only this time, the hatred seems to have assumed dangerous overtones.

i think it was always like that. i havent seen any increase or decrease. under the surface there is anti brahminism.

the recent most outburst afaik: appointment of prakash and vaidyanathan to high court judges. both are from palghat and lawyers' council did not like it per this article. why not tamilains. for this eminent justice chandru wrote this rebuttal.

the dk goon veeramani complained that for 3% population, brahmins already have the 2 judges. why more? i think they are planning a protest middle of this month.

but both the judges are now reality and madras high court has atleast 4 if not more brahmin judges.

 

[Nara]

.....the dk goon veeramani ....

such language is expected from some quarters, but ..., we are talking about a particular individual here, not some amorphous group.... well, perhaps you are collecting some brownie points and some legitimacy

 

[Nara]

Since when has any truth been sweet? Only this time, the hatred seems to have assumed dangerous overtones.

I was only pointing out that this topic has been discussed a million times, and everytime the same arguments are made. That is all ashwin, but, please, don't mind me, go ahead and have at it one more time, ......

 

[kunjuppu]

such language is expected from some quarters, but ..., we are talking about a particular individual here, not some amorphous group.... well, perhaps you are collecting some brownie points and some legitimacy

i am just sick of veeramani taking on tambrams as he has nothing else to do these days. tambrams are a dead force. today his antique is against the new judges. he should be busy enjoying the money he swindled from 'xxx' account.

as i said, money corrupts. and dk is corrupted now to 3 different factions. veeramani fought hardmost to get the SC/HC to admit that he alone had rights to royalty on xxx's works. HC/SC told him to take a hike, i think.

... and the hypocracy is..he would rent his houses only to brahmins

 

[Nara]

i am just sick of veeramani

Me too, I am also sick of him, but you misunderstand me, my comment has nothing to do with Veeramani, it is the ease with which insulting and abusive epithets are permitted and used against certain individuals, and the very mention of certain others are forbidden because of ruffled feathers. It is easy to call Veeramani a goon in this forum, you will have lots of supporters, cheers and accolades and all, but still, I feel it was a cheap shot, thats all ........

 

[amoghvarsha]

Respected Ashwin,
Kindly explain what does paarpan mean?? Perhaps these dravidian parties are motivated by Aryan Invasion Theory and supposedly Aryan-Brahmin connection, mistreatments meted to Dalits by Brahmins of ancient times or just perhaps jealousy from Brahmins. These are just my guesses as I am not much aquainted with TN politics. Anyhow Brahmin hatred is pan-India( maybe more latent than as it is in TN). Dalit parties' top villians are obviously Brahmins for obvious reasons. In Muslim and Christian proselytizers' hitlists, Brahmins top the list for being top in "Hindu order system". Even in Pakistan, a crooked fellow named Zaid Hamid directly addresses Brahmin/Bania in place of Hindus. He has even proclaimed all Brahmins either to convert or to face extermination.

By the way what are the prospectus of AAP in Tamil-Nadu after its Delhi Landslide. Can it give a tough fight in near future to Regional Tamil parties who are quite infamous for corruptions in their state??

 

[zebra16]

such language is expected from some quarters, but ..., we are talking about a particular individual here, not some amorphous group.... well, perhaps you are collecting some brownie points and some legitimacy

Which quarters? Which group you are aluding to?

 

[prasad1]

dear ashwin,

i too think of this occassionally. the good news is that not many of us are left (compared to what we once were).

there is a significant number of rich and very rich. you dont have to worry about them. they know how to take care of themselves. Hindu paper family is now MK's sambandhi. India Cements is AVM's sambandhi. so with calculated inter marriage they have protected their wealth and safety.

the poor are non threatening, though most vulnerable to physical assaults. also they are probably the least inclined to move or able to move outside of tamil nadu. from what i hear, there are hardly any brahmins left in the southern districts. and only pockets in thanjavur and the bulk in chennai. i would say chennai is safe as we still can get enough protection if need be. and the andhra border is only 40 kms away at gudur.

the middle class is busy sending its children abroad. many girls from middle class are marrying IC. the middle class boys unmarried are probably the largest section of unmarried tambram bachelors.

so, all in all, we are dealing with a dire situation, in a quiet, but intelligent way. much better than what the jews handled the nazis. or is that an unfair and inappropriate comparison? i dont know.

the biggest defuse of brahmin hatred has been the dravidian rise to power. power corrupts and all of them have become corrupted. another new movement, tamil desiyam is busy gunning the dravidians. that does not mean tamil desiyam has much love for us. mainly because of cho hinduram subswamy - these guys are anti ltte and tamil desiyam is tied to ltte at its hips. otherwise the original tamil desiyam acknowledged that along with nadars dalits vanniars gounders, tambrams were also ancient tamils right from sangam age.

i follow all these movements very closely out of interest. some call me a brahmin basher for putting info about others. so be it . i too care about tambrams. but hate manu smriti and old fashioned brahminism and prejudices that goes along with it. if you read my past posts, you can understand where i am coming from. cheers!!

Sir,
I have never lived in TN.
But I have heard from others the treatment that they get. I being born and brought outside of TN, used to feel that people in Chennai (oR madras) were very rude, but I chalked it to the culture.
We have had discussion on this site about the plight of Brahmins. I am not for any birth based division, to me my birth was not my decision. As long as I do not contribute to discrimination, I have nothing to be ashamed of.
Let us not start another B VS NB discussion, because it only gives a platform for Brahmin Bashing and nothing is solved.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Which quarters? Which group you are aluding to?

Nara was alluding to tambrams of course. Did you really think he was alluding to the Pope or Sheikh al-Sheikh of Mecca lol? Tambrams are softer than wet sponges, they'll continue to be referred to as "parpan" as long as they accept the raw deal meted out to them. They can't fight, so they decide to take flight..

 

[Nara]

Which quarters? Which group you are aluding to?

I would like to answer your question Narayan, but then what is the point, you are never there to respond. See you until next time you make a post and disappear ....

 

[kunjuppu]

Me too, I am also sick of him, but you misunderstand me, my comment has nothing to do with Veeramani, it is the ease with which insulting and abusive epithets are permitted and used against certain individuals, and the very mention of certain others are forbidden because of ruffled feathers. It is easy to call Veeramani a goon in this forum, you will have lots of supporters, cheers and accolades and all, but still, I feel it was a cheap shot, thats all ........

dear nara, this epithet against veeramani was for my own benefit. did not consider other honourable members.

 

[Nara]

...they'll continue to be referred to as "parpan" ..

Dear Ashwin, I agree that the way the term is used now is not polite to say the least, but the term itself is not derogatory. Take for instance the phrase பார்ப்பனச் சிட்டர்கள் by Andal, she certainly was not using the term in an unpleasant way. Like the word நாற்றம் has changed its meaning, this word has also taken on a negative flavor.

Take it easy ash ..... taking flight was voluntary and very very very lucrative ....

 

[zebra16]

I would like to answer your question Narayan, but then what is the point, you are never there to respond. See you until next time you make a post and disappear ....

The point of my post, is you are the one who talks about innuendos, shadow boxing, taking swipes etc.

 

[Nara]

The point of my post, is you are the one who talks about innuendos, shadow boxing, taking swipes etc.

Ok narayan, I am it, I am the one ....

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Ashwin, I agree that the way the term is used now is not polite to say the least, but the term itself is not derogatory. Take for instance the phrase பார்ப்பனச் சிட்டர்கள் by Andal, she certainly was not using the term in an unpleasant way. Like the word நாற்றம் has changed its meaning, this word has also taken on a negative flavor.

Take it easy ash ..... taking flight was voluntary and very very very lucrative ....

ash, paarpaan is not derogatory. the term was used for brahmins right from sangam age.

also starting from 1920s onwards, tambrams and pattars, started their migrations out of villages of thanjavur and palakkad... initially to ceylon, burma, malaya... and later to calcutta. after independence it became a flood..to bombay and delhi.

you can go through the archives of this forum for details.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Dear Ashwin, I agree that the way the term is used now is not polite to say the least, but the term itself is not derogatory. Take for instance the phrase பார்ப்பனச் சிட்டர்கள் by Andal, she certainly was not using the term in an unpleasant way. Like the word நாற்றம் has changed its meaning, this word has also taken on a negative flavor.

Take it easy ash ..... taking flight was voluntary and very very very lucrative ....

If they'd stayed behind, Big River would have cut their heads along with their sacred threads..

 

[Nara]

... Big River ..

Clever, put a smile on my face, nice ....

Of course you are wrong about the cutting of head, but then, I don't want to go there, it is அரைச்ச மாவு you see ....

 

[kunjuppu]

Clever, put a smile on my face, nice ....

Of course you are wrong about the cutting of head, but then, I don't want to go there, it is அரைச்ச மாவு you see ....

i have to and forced to disagree with you here not all of it is அரைச்ச மாவு...you see now you can call him 'big river' and the ABB (anti brahmin bashers?) cannot do anything about it. or will they ?

 

[tbs]

hi

This attitude has led to the near-extinction of the tambram community (palakkad iyers are predicted to go extinct in the next century, other tambrams may also have to meet a similar fate).


dont worry...may be different avatar in different place....just see chembur/maattunga.....how palakkad iyers are flourished....

just see...every corner of the the BIG SAASTHAPREETHIS conducted by these palakkad iyers.... ..somebody thought JEWS

WILL PERISHED FROM EARTH..... but they survived and flourished some other place/condinent....so the same way....

palakkad iyers/tambrams will suvived/flourished in some other condinent.....may be some reformed way....

 

[tks]

Politicians rule by redirecting anger against a topic that everyone can understand regardless of reality. The real issues are not then answered and a government is not held accountable.

For example back in 1970 there was a well known court case against admission into medical school by a white student claiming that less qualified minorities were given preference. The real issue is that there are too few seats on purpose then to keep the scarcity up so the Doctors can make lot more money. There always had been far more qualified people who could become medical doctors and schools could easily expand to create larger number of admission seats. Since this is not in the best interest of controlling units the issue of the case became one of reverse discrimination.

It is a clever way of redirecting public anger over non issues.

Brahminism, and Brahmins are good topics for hatred since it keeps the average person think the reason for their state of wealth has to do with Brahmins instead of the goons running the government.

 

[ashwin_ash]

i have to and forced to disagree with you here not all of it is அரைச்ச மாவு...you see now you can call him 'big river' and the ABB (anti brahmin bashers?) cannot do anything about it. or will they ?

What's worse is, the spillover effect is visible even in other countries. My manager is a white lady so people refrain from badmouthing her. There are teams where managers are tambrams, and those who are not tamil brahmins badmouth them in unspeakable ways.

Big River had little love lost for the scheduled castes and minorities, yet it is only now that people are realizing he represented only the middle castes, and cleverly used tambrams as tools to achieve his motives. His successor Brave Gem only shouts and yells but worships J which is inexplicable. And the common man on the streets of Chennai hates tambrams and still thinks of them as wet sponges.