Brahmin hatred- not so latent

[Nara]

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.... Brave Gem ....

ash you are cracking me up man, another good one. What else you got?

 

[tks]

Brave Gem - who is that .. I want to laugh too ...

 

[Nara]

Brave Gem - who is that .. I want to laugh too ...

Veera Mani

 

[ashwin_ash]

Veera Mani

The guy Honest King who portrayed Big River in the movie, and the Rich brothers (Seeman and Ameer) are also doing their bit to spew vitriol on a hapless tambram community. Just like the N word is banned where I live, "paarpan" should be banned. But then the mindset of Americans towards Blacks has changed, whereas tamils continue to delude themselves and others. Ultimately it is the loss of the tamil country to have driven away a talented community.

When no-eyes (kan-nahi) burnt Madurai down, she said "Aa" (cows) and "Andhanars" (brahmins) would be spared as they are innocent and full of inherent goodness. Mr Mu Sympathy Fund et al conveniently obliterate these facts and selectively choose that which suits their dirty political aims.

 

[mkrishna100]

Tamilnadu Tamilarukke DVD Release Maniarasan speaks

Tamilnadu Tamilarukke DVD Release Maniarasan speaks.mp4 - YouTube

Tamilnadu Tamilarukke DVD Release Function Tamil Desa Pothuvudamai Party General Secretary Maniarasan speaks

This video needs to be watched to understand the problem is not between Aryans v/s Dravidians as popularly believed but the problem is between Aryans and Tamilians and the word "Dravidian" does not denote NB people but only denotes Brahmins belonging to South India . So why Anti Brahmin feelings are more common in Tamil Nadu than in other Southern states like Karnataka , Andhra , Kerala etc are discussed here .

 

[Nara]

.... Ultimately it is the loss of the tamil country to have driven away a talented community.

When no-eyes (kan-nahi) burnt Madurai down, she said "Aa" (cows) and "Andhanars" (brahmins) would be spared as they are innocent and full of inherent goodness. Mr Mu Sympathy Fund et al conveniently obliterate these facts and selectively choose that which suits their dirty political aims.

ash, your knack with words is hilarious, I give that to you, but the underlying point you are trying to drive is baseless. It is no loss to Tamil country if it gets rid of Brahminism, no, it is no loss to humanity if we can manage to get rid of Brahminism from the face of the earth.

No ash, anthanar does not mean Brahmins, it is another case of the meaning of the word getting transformed, just as நாற்றம் came to mean from something pleasing to something foul, the word அந்தணர் came to mean from something admirable to something detestable as one belonging to a particular ஜாதி.

Your antics are adorable, but the message you are trying to convey is obnoxious and has no factual basis. If you are up to it, we can debate it, make your case, sans clowning ....

Let us start with your observation about the auto driver and the common man in the streets of Chennai. Why do you thing the message of Big River found such resonance with these common people? Do you think the common folks are mere sheep simply nodding their heads in unison to the tunes of politicians? If so, why did they so choose to nod their heads to the message of Big River and not King Sir? What was it that the message of one politician found resonance and not the other? Think about it. Don't be blinded by your own birth ஜாதி.

 

[ashwin_ash]

ash, your knack with words is hilarious, I give that to you, but the underlying point you are trying to drive is baseless. It is no loss to Tamil country if it gets rid of Brahminism, no, it is no loss to humanity if we can manage to get rid of Brahminism from the face of the earth.

No ash, anthanar does not mean Brahmins, it is another case of the meaning of the word getting transformed, just as நாற்றம் came to mean from something pleasing to something foul, the word அந்தணர் came to mean from something admirable to something detestable as one belonging to a particular ஜாதி.

Your antics are adorable, but the message you are trying to convey is obnoxious and has no factual basis. If you are up to it, we can debate it, make your case, sans clowning ....

Let us start with your observation about the auto driver and the common man in the streets of Chennai. Why do you thing the message of Big River found such resonance with these common people? Do you think the common folks are mere sheep simply nodding their heads in unison to the tunes of politicians? If so, why did they so choose to nod their heads to the message of Big River and not King Sir? What was it that the message of one politician found resonance and not the other? Think about it. Don't be blinded by your own birth ஜாதி.

Mr Nara, I'm certainly concerned about Brahmins' plight, and chances are I'm not even Brahmin. However, what goes beyond mere concern is Brahmin bashing. Bashing any community is abhorrent, look at the plight of Viswaroopam as an example.. the community retaliated with extreme violence. I'm trying to convey all communities should be allowed to live and evolve within the boundaries of their own space, and the past must not be used as an example to pull down a community in the present. If that be the case, muslims pillaged India for several centuries and they should be the first community to be severely punished.

 

[Nara]

Mr Nara, I'm certainly concerned about Brahmins' plight, and chances are I'm not even Brahmin. However, what goes beyond mere concern is Brahmin bashing. Bashing any community is abhorrent, look at the plight of Viswaroopam as an example.. the community retaliated with extreme violence. I'm trying to convey all communities should be allowed to live and evolve within the boundaries of their own space, and the past must not be used as an example to pull down a community in the present. If that be the case, muslims pillaged India for several centuries and they should be the first community to be severely punished.

Ash you are changing the topic now. Let it be, but now you are making many unsustainable charges. What violence, state your evidence. What is your evidence that any jAti, Brahmin jAti in particular, is not allowed to live and prosper in Tamil Nadu? If your sweeping statements are to be taken seriously you have to provide some solid evidence.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Ash you are changing the topic now. Let it be, but now you are making many unsustainable charges. What violence, state your evidence. What is your evidence that any jAti, Brahmin jAti in particular, is not allowed to live and prosper in Tamil Nadu? If your sweeping statements are to be taken seriously you have to provide some solid evidence.

It is well-known that big river and his acolytes coined the term "paarpaneeyam" and physically beat up brahmins (kill the brahmin first, then the snake..) and snipped off the sacred threads. And people like brave gem still rail about historical 'injustices'. The only injustice was, big river was pushed and shoved in benares, and so automatically developed 'hatred'.

The pillaging of somnath, khajuraho, the massacre of 1000s of brahmins by hyder ali in mandya..

It is very hard to argue with follows of BRA and big river, as they are totally brainwashed and refuse to listen to alternate opinions.

 

[Nara]

It is well-known that big river and his acolytes coined the term "paarpaneeyam" and physically beat up brahmins (kill the brahmin first, then the snake..) and snipped off the sacred threads. And people like brave gem still rail about historical 'injustices'. The only injustice was, big river was pushed and shoved in benares, and so automatically developed 'hatred'.

The pillaging of somnath, khajuraho, the massacre of 1000s of brahmins by hyder ali in mandya..

It is very hard to argue with follows of BRA and big river, as they are totally brainwashed and refuse to listen to alternate opinions.

So this is the sum total of your argument, conjecture based on bits and pieces of what you heard here and there?

Go back and read your post #31 and my challenge post #32. If you ahev anything substantive, anything meaningful, state it, if all you have is something along the lines of your post #33, then so long .......e

 

[ashwin_ash]

So this is the sum total of your argument, conjecture based on bits and pieces of what you heard here and there?

Go back and read your post #31 and my challenge post #32. If you ahev anything substantive, anything meaningful, state it, if all you have is something along the lines of your post #33, then so long .......e

I can go on and on, m......... .......r, but the ground reality stands. Nothing's gonna change, perhaps you and your ilk should be thanked for driving away the majority of tambrams from india, and living the good life abroad.

 

[vgane]

I can go on and on, m......... .......r, but the ground reality stands. Nothing's gonna change, perhaps you and your ilk should be thanked for driving away the majority of tambrams from india, and living the good life abroad.

Dear Ashwin,

What is good life...Away from your religion, tradition & culture in a foreign shore...Your children marrying the Whites...What is left of you...An impoversihed soul that can have solace only in Dollars

Tambrahms have to fight in Tamil nadu for their rights...There is no point running away and conceding defeat...

These are following that you could have asked the driver:

1. Why are you so much against the Parpaan..What harm did he do to you
2. In Tamil Nadu assembly how many Brahmin MLA's are there out of 234.Only 2..Are they causing harm to you
3. How many Mayors are there out of the 10 elected Mayors---None
4. What % is in TN Government service--Probably less than the population %

If he is still not relenting...Ask his community...And ask him if his community is impacted on account of the Parpaan?

You could have attempted to reform the person..May be patience is required

No one will attack you in Tamil Nadu now

Even the hard core Big River guys know that they have to spend years in jail if booked in NSA!

You have lots to achieve in Tamil Nadu, if you have the guts and patience

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

This is an argument which many Tamil Brahmins would like to believe in because it is a justification for their actions.

Please tell me whether our Police do racial profiling? Even if thy do it, it is the Dalits and Muslims who are affected. Never the Brahmins.

And Tamil Brahmins try to justiy their migration to other states and US on this so called Brahmin hatred.

Migrate to a country where the police do a racial profiling of blacks and Muslims. The New York police considers all Muslims to be terrorists.

A black could be killed by the police because he is a black.

Tell me how any Brahmins have been killed in police firing compared to Dalits who have been killed in hundreds if not thousands.

You can not justify emigration saying there were famine, draught and political persecution like the Italians, Irish and others.

You can not prove political persecution because it does not exist. I am sure many would be hoping about it to get Visa.

 

[krish44]

Dear Ashwin,

What is good life...Away from your religion, tradition & culture in a foreign shore...Your children marrying the Whites...What is left of you...An impoversihed soul that can have solace only in Dollars

Tambrahms have to fight in Tamil nadu for their rights...There is no point running away and conceding defeat...

These are following that you could have asked the driver:

1. Why are you so much against the Parpaan..What harm did he do to you
2. In Tamil Nadu assembly how many Brahmin MLA's are there out of 234.Only 2..Are they causing harm to you
3. How many Mayors are there out of the 10 elected Mayors---None
4. What % is in TN Government service--Probably less than the population %

If he is still not relenting...Ask his caste...And ask him if he is for that Ambattan as Chief Minister??

tambrahms have to begin assreting themself in tamilnadu. .they have to support a political formation which does not believe in identity politics. a political order where caste creed community religion has no relevance. tambrahms are an enlightened community. well educated and leaders in IT and engineering professions in tamilnadu and elsewhere. they can try try for an inclusive order with other marginalised communities for a different type of political dispensation where they are not discriminated against.In forties,fifties and sixties Tambrahms headed towards north ,west and east of india. In sixties and later further abroad to US ,UK and other countries. Many of us have not experienced discrimination directly and have only heard about it.on a visit to Tamil nadu we get an experience of the hostile attidude of lower and intermadiate castes. A phenomenon like AAP can spread its wings there to change things. Brahmin politicians and industry leaders have failed the community and bought peace by aligning with bcs' and obc's. in loksabha elections if aap contests in tamil nadu in chennai ,coimbotore or bangalore ,it wouldbe a good idea to support them . AAP with its destructive streak has the capability to destroy the existing order . what will take its place is anybodys' guess. any change can come only thru power of youth ,media,women and disadvantaged sections such ar religeous minorities veru low castes such as dalits. it is worth a try

 

[sarang]

There is no need to worry; brahmins will survive and prosper as long as they respect their birth and brahminhood and live a brahminical, righteous way of life with due respect for tradition and rituals. There is a growing section of adherents for the basic rituals, and a select percentage at higher levels to guide and put them on the right path.

Brahmins may be excluded from government jobs but shine well in administration related fields. All the brahmin intolerant dravidian leaders, mgr, mk, and many others employed brahmin lawyers and auditors and accountants. Recent murmur is, with recent promotions, there are more brahmins in high court. This has to be swallowed because laid down procedure was followed.

It is not necessary that every brahmin has to do vedaadyayana and shun all paying jobs. In fact many brahmins who have done well in the corporate sector are helping in keeping the traditions alive. As in the pre-independent days, when many educational institutions were opened by brahmins to counter christian influence, now, schools and colleges are started by mutts and acharyas to give a tradition/comprehensive education.

There is no visible or explicit brahmin hate in the society; all brahmins, traditional and not so traditional are carrying on with their contributions. Many new temples prefer brahmin archakas and the non brahmin devotees too have a lot of respect for them.

Barbs and insults by the arm chair rationalists may give them 'self-gratification' in the true sense, but the brahmin community does neither care nor is affected by it. Change in the environment and living does affect, but brahmins will find a way without losing their core values.

If self-gratification releases the stress, so be it. Others are not affected.

 

[sarang]

Dushyant sridhar is a practicing vaishnavite, technically qualified, well employed, and active upanyasakar. Just to show that one can be traditional astika and a good professional balancing both lives smoothly. There are many like him.

From wiki:
Sridhar was born in Bangalore. He did his schooling there and in Chennai, after which he obtained his Bachelors in Chemical Engineering and Masters in Chemistry from BITS, Pilani.[SUP][1][/SUP] Currently he works with a leading consultancy services firm Tata Consultancy Services,[SUP][2][/SUP] and is a visiting faculty member at WE School,[SUP][2][/SUP] a business school in Mumbai. In the past he has worked with Kantar Group (TNS Health),Panacea Biotec, Avalon Global Research and the Speak well English Academy.[1]

He was trained in Sanskrit and Tamizh hymns from a very young age by Srimati Indira RajagopAlan and Sri.Sambashivam. He then received Samashrayanam at the lotus hands of His Holiness Sri Narayana Yatendra Mahadeshikan (45th pontiff of Sri Ahobila Mutt) and under the benevolence of the same Acharya, he performed Bhara Samarpanam at the lotus feet of Divya Dampati. He is undergoing advanced training in four revered SriVaishnavite scriptures (grantha chattushtayam) viz. Sri Bhashyam, Geeta Bhashyam, Bhagavad Vishayam and Srimad Rahasya Traya Saram texts at the lotus feet of revered preceptors (Acharyas)

He has delivered over 700 discourses worldwide, to a cumulative audience size of over 2 Lakh in 4 languages[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]. He is a regular speaker on television including Star Vijay(a channel of Star Network), Jaya TV, Sri Sankara TV(a religious channel),DD Podhigai TV(maintained by Doordarshan) and SVBC Channel(maintained by Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanam).[SUP][17][/SUP] His YouTube videos alone have over 3 Lakh views.




Dushyanth Sridhar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[kunjuppu]

This is an argument which many Tamil Brahmins would like to believe in because it is a justification for their actions.

Please tell me whether our Police do racial profiling? Even if thy do it, it is the Dalits and Muslims who are affected. Never the Brahmins.

And Tamil Brahmins try to justiy their migration to other states and US on this so called Brahmin hatred.

Migrate to a country where the police do a racial profiling of blacks and Muslims. The New York police considers all Muslims to be terrorists.

A black could be killed by the police because he is a black.

Tell me how any Brahmins have been killed in police firing compared to Dalits who have been killed in hundreds if not thousands.

You can not justify emigration saying there were famine, draught and political persecution like the Italians, Irish and others.

You can not prove political persecution because it does not exist. I am sure many would be hoping about it to get Visa.

no one tambram, i believe, emigrated out of political persecution. it was solely economics and betterment of life.

i know of one case of political motivated immigration. a friend of mine, manickam, went to bombay for job in 1960s, after high school. fear of shiv sena made him come back to madras of dmk, which he said was better than bombay of shiv sena.

let us be honest about our history.

 

[prasad1]

no one tambram, i believe, emigrated out of political persecution. it was solely economics and betterment of life.

i know of one case of political motivated immigration. a friend of mine, manickam, went to bombay for job in 1960s, after high school. fear of shiv sena made him come back to madras of dmk, which he said was better than bombay of shiv sena.

let us be honest about our history.

Sorry to disagree with your POV. Political forces made it economic. The economy is controlled by prevailing political atmosphere. We emigrated because of economic condition was better in foreign land. We had good jobs in India, but left it of our own choice. Majority of TB left TN not of free will but because of the economy, they were ostracized from job market to a great extent.

 

[krish44]

Sorry to disagree with your POV. Political forces made it economic. The economy is controlled by prevailing political atmosphere. We emigrated because of economic condition was better in foreign land. We had good jobs in India, but left it of our own choice. Majority of TB left TN not of free will but because of the economy, they were ostracized from job market to a great extent.

I agree with you you may deny marginilisation in tamil nadu and feel everything is honkydory and nobody has marginilised you. there were no good oppurtunities in govt sector for brahmins. and you were squeezed out like the kashmiri pandits though a gun was not held to your head

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

When I passed out Engineering in 1968, there was a depression both in India and the U.S. No one got any placement. I am talking about I.I.T, not any old state engineering college. Government of India came up with a scheme of apprenticeship and we were sent to different industries and given a stipend of Rs.250 per month.

U.S government issued Immigration Visa to qualified Indians under a quota. But not many migrated. The only job you could get in the U.S when you landed there was as a petrol bunk attendant. So people who were keen on migrating learnt the petrol filling technique in the local pumps. The other job was washing plates in hotels.

Compare this what happened some decades later.

The industries in Tamil Nadu were owned by either the Brahmins or the Chettiars. The Brahmins had absolutely no value for merit. Recruitment was based on caste, subcaste, place of birth and whom you knew. A Vadama from Kallidaikurichi/Ambasmudram had the best chance. Non-Vadamas were not welcome in any industry. A Bsc maman machan was preferred over an I.I.T graduate.

It is this attitude which led to almost every engineer going over to other cities.

The parochial, casteist Brahmin industrialists drove us out. Not the government.

They started recognizing merit only when their industries turned sick.

It is the Congress government which initiated Anti-Brahminism. The Vice chancellor of the Madras university swore that he would eliminate Brahmins from education. The Chief Justice swore that he would see that no Brahmin ever became a High Court Judge. All this happened when there were Brahmin ministers at the Centre and the State. What did they do to stop this anti_brahminism? Nothing. Congress took up anti-Brahminism in a big way to counter the DMK.

Some of the Brahmins think that we should become politically active. What will happen if we have 15 M.L.As, and 5 ministers. Nothing will happen to the community. If you think that these people will be any better in improving the lot of the community than the older minsters and politicians, then we are living in a fools paradise.

 

[Vaagmi]

Ash you are changing the topic now. Let it be, but now you are making many unsustainable charges. What violence, state your evidence. What is your evidence that any jAti, Brahmin jAti in particular, is not allowed to live and prosper in Tamil Nadu? If your sweeping statements are to be taken seriously you have to provide some solid evidence.

Let me answer this:

In the last more than 25 years none of the universities in Tamilnadu had a brahmin VC. Does it mean that all those who were VCs were far more brilliant than the many brahmin professors who were eligible for selection but were denied that post? Even to start a canteen in the University you need a politician's recommendation and that goes usually to his jingling followers of his caste.

Can you name a single brahmin minister in any of the Governments that came to power in TN after the Congress demise? What is the reason? Are brahmins allowed to become vatta cheyalar or mavatta cheyalar in any of the dravidian parties?

You dont have to beat up people. You put strategic checks on their growth opportunities and that does the trick.

Answer please.

 

[krish44]

naccharkiniyan ji
I can understand your feelings I also passed out in 1966 from indian institute of science with an engineering degree. I also had the option to collect Rs 250 .there was devaluation of rupee by 57percent and times were bad for engineers . of course since I was from north india I had runaway from anti brahmin actions in tamil nadu.I changed my field to pure sciences to escape the bad job situation and continued in IIt for 3more years upto reseach level. most of my classmaes went off to us and mostly settled there
I am an optimist . running away is no solution . we have to be politically active . even if you think it is living in fools paradise so be it . we should try

 

[CHANDRU1849]

I read your article with interest.

How can you single out vadama iyers getting preference in the industries

in tamil nadu. Is there any proof? Are the industrialists simpson, easun, india

cements, standard motors, enfield etc. Belong to vadama community?


I don't think tvs group would ever give preference to vadama iyer.


Your argument is lacking proof?

Can you please explain.

when i passed out engineering in 1968, there was a depression both in india and the u.s. No one got any placement. I am talking about i.i.t, not any old state engineering college. Government of india came up with a scheme of apprenticeship and we were sent to different industries and given a stipend of rs.250 per month.

U.s government issued immigration visa to qualified indians under a quota. But not many migrated. The only job you could get in the u.s when you landed there was as a petrol bunk attendant. So people who were keen on migrating learnt the petrol filling technique in the local pumps. The other job was washing plates in hotels.

Compare this what happened some decades later.

The industries in tamil nadu were owned by either the brahmins or the chettiars. The brahmins had absolutely no value for merit. Recruitment was based on caste, subcaste, place of birth and whom you knew. A vadama from kallidaikurichi/ambasmudram had the best chance. Non-vadamas were not welcome in any industry. A bsc maman machan was preferred over an i.i.t graduate.

It is this attitude which led to almost every engineer going over to other cities.

The parochial, casteist brahmin industrialists drove us out. Not the government.

They started recognizing merit only when their industries turned sick.

It is the congress government which initiated anti-brahminism. The vice chancellor of the madras university swore that he would eliminate brahmins from education. The chief justice swore that he would see that no brahmin ever became a high court judge. All this happened when there were brahmin ministers at the centre and the state. What did they do to stop this anti_brahminism? Nothing. Congress took up anti-brahminism in a big way to counter the dmk.

Some of the brahmins think that we should become politically active. What will happen if we have 15 m.l.as, and 5 ministers. Nothing will happen to the community. If you think that these people will be any better in improving the lot of the community than the older minsters and politicians, then we are living in a fools paradise.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Let me answer this:

In the last more than 25 years none of the universities in Tamilnadu had a brahmin VC. Does it mean that all those who were VCs were far more brilliant than the many brahmin professors who were eligible for selection but were denied that post? Even to start a canteen in the University you need a politician's recommendation and that goes usually to his jingling followers of his caste.

Can you name a single brahmin minister in any of the Governments that came to power in TN after the Congress demise? What is the reason? Are brahmins allowed to become vatta cheyalar or mavatta cheyalar in any of the dravidian parties?

You dont have to beat up people. You put strategic checks on their growth opportunities and that does the trick.

Answer please.

One small point.

The politician in most cases goes by how he would benefit by his recommendation. The first criterion is money. We in our family have bought government jobs in Tamil Nadu. The highest bidder gets it and not the caste people who have voted for him.

Dr.K.Venkatasubramaniam was Vice-Chancellor of Pondicherry University

In what way is the community benefitted by people occupying high posts. They are not going to favour the people from the Brahmin community. In fact to prove that they do not favour Brahmins, they will be more anti-Brahmin than the others.

In 1968 Shiv Sena was carrying on an anti_South Indian campaign. When we went for the interview we used to hope for a all Maharashtrian board. They would recruit you if you had merit. But an all South Indian board would never recruit you to prove that they are not prejudiced.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

There are some unintended consequences. The Brahmins found it difficult to even get admission for BSc in colleges without paying money. Many colleges offed admission in BSc. mathematics. That too evening course.

No one ever though that these Ambis would ever get any Good job. A mathematics graduate was totally unemployable.

Then GOD has his own way. The software revolution happened and all our Mylapore Ambis who did mathematics are in U.S earning fabulous salaries.