Brahmins eating non-vegeterian

[Raji Ram]

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Dear Renu,

It depends how the person eats! Have you seen any person gobble up food from the banana leaf / plate,

making huge balls and tongue coming out to carry the ball inside! :lol:

Anyway, for me no left over from other's plate, including my grand kid!

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

It depends how the person eats! Have you seen any person gobble up food from the banana leaf / plate,

making huge balls and tongue coming out to carry the ball inside! :lol:

Anyway, for me no left over from other's plate, including my grand kid!

Dear RR ji,

I have seen in movies how people make balls and eat..out here I have not seen life in action and neither have I seen in India too.

Where did you see people eating like this yaar?

RR ji..not even your grandchild?

You know when my son was small he used to love to eat chocolate and when I ask him give me some ..he will say NO..then he will feel sad and bite a piece and then give me the bitten piece..I would eat it cos that was given with love.

BTW my dad hates is when he sees me eating my husband's left over..sometimes he asks me "hey as a doc you surely dont mind eating left overs"

I would irritate my dad and say "Purushan's Ecchi has a Thani Sugham"

BTW when we can have intercourse with our spouse and there is so much exchange of bodily fluid what is the big deal of sharing food?LOL

RR ji..this is going to shock you..I have a friend also a doc..he is a well known doc here.

He recently went to Shiridi to live as a fakir on the street for 3 days to experience life as a fakir.
He slept by the road with beggars and he said he only begged for food.

When he got the 1st meal for his day..he was about to eat it when a dog came to eat it and he said that he felt that dog was more hungry than him and let the dog eat and share and the dog left some food for him and my friend ate the dog's left over!

I was "OMG werent you scared of any disease"

To which he said "what can go wrong when I am in Shiridi and he said that a human mouth actually contains more bacteria"

So RR ji..my friend is the ultimate devotee he did not mind eating a dogs left over!

 

[Nara]

...... SV azhwars are known for their pasurams[Am i correct] which are sung in vaishnavaite temples. If you would like to engage the forum on this ,it would be productive.

You are now revealing your unfamiliarity, or dare I say ignorance, of my past posts in this forum. Whatever may have been the merit, I did take a whole lot of my time and effort in the precise endeavor you are encouraging me to engage in. Please sir, don't let your lack of awareness of facts drive you to give free advice as to what sort of productive endeavors I must engage in. If you still cannot resist the urge, please do the necessary homework, take a look at the series of posts I have made on Azhvar pasurams in past, they are all there in the archives, all you have to do is look for them.

If you would like to discuss their stupidity to uphold the varna system and about his bias in favour of vaishnavites ,it is fishing for dirt instead of the good from the scriptures.

Now, I really feel sorry for you, you seem to be completely oblivious of the progressive message of Azhvars more than thousand years ago. Whenever any Azhvars spoke about varna, they rejected it quite forcefully. So, I just don't understand what you are talking about. My beef, or வெண்டைகாய் as the case may be, is not with Azhvars, they were great on this issue, it is with the later Brahminical commentators who diluted the original message, and the even later SV acharyas who completely turned the table on its head and never put into practice even the diluted interpretations of the commentators. So, please, understand, I have enormous respect for the Azhvars for the kind of society they envisioned. If you care to look through the archives this would be evident to you.

prerhaps you would like to go the salman rushdie way, with SVs baying for your blood. however hindu brahmins are not miiltants. they do not issue fatwas. you are lucky

It is not about my luck, it is about the present day SVs wanting to be like the ayatollahs, if that is what they want to be like, let them bring it on. But let us be clear on one thing, when it comes to varna, the Azhvars are with me, not them, and I can prove it with their own words.

 

[Nara]

It depends how the person eats! Have you seen any person gobble up food from the banana leaf / plate,

making huge balls and tongue coming out to carry the ball inside!

I am sorry Mrs. RR., you are being an elitist. I don't know to what extent what you are saying is true, but that really doesn't matter, what is wrong with gobbling up food from the banana leaf/plate?

 

[krish44]

Dear RR ji,

I have seen in movies how people make balls and eat..out here I have not seen life in action and neither have I seen in India too.

Where did you see people eating like this yaar?

RR ji..not even your grandchild?

You know when my son was small he used to bite chocolate and when I ask him give me some ..he will say NO..then he will feel sad and bite a piece and then give me the bitten piece..I would eat it cos that was given with love.

BTW my dad hates is when he sees me eating my husband's left over..sometimes he asks me "hey as a doc you surely dont mind eating left overs"

I would irritate my dad and say "Purushan's Ecchi has a Thani Sugham"

BTW when we can have intercourse with our spouse and there is so much exchange of bodily fluid what is the big deal of sharing food?LOL

RR ji..this is going to shock you..I have a friend also a doc..he is a well known doc here.

He recently went to Shiridi to live as a fakir on the street for 3 days to experience life as a fakir.
He slept by the road with beggars and he said he only begged for food.

When he got the 1st meal for his day..he was about to eat it when a dog came to eat it and he said that he felt that dog was more hungry than him and let the dog eat and share and the dog left some food for him and my friend ate the dog's left over!

I was "OMG werent you scared of any disease"

To which he said "what can go wrong when I am in Shiridi and he said that a human mouth actually contains more bacteria"

So RR ji..my friend is the ultimate devotee he did not mind eating a dogs left over!

R ji how can you justify echchil under the head Thani sugam . Sharing with dog -a bit over the top . Not expected from 21st century rational doctor.you will get a lot of female following with such comments from you Besides some may consider sharing echchil with the Holy cow and giving a quote from mythology. Nara ji where are you . shall we have a strong two liner from you on this subject

 

[Nara]

....
BTW when we can have intercourse with our spouse and there is so much exchange of bodily fluid what is the big deal of sharing food?

All this is well and good if wife's echchil is as much satvik to the husband as husband's echchil is to the wife. The big deal is not about what carnal love leads one to relish, which can be much more than just echchil "come" on, it is about what the acharam rules are and what is acceptable, i.e. satvik, and what is forbidden.

 

[krish44]

I am sorry Mrs. RR., you are being an elitist. I don't know to what extent what you are saying is true, but that really doesn't matter, what is wrong with gobbling up food from the banana leaf/plate?

Gobbling from either leaf or plate in large balls without sufficient water could choke your food pipes. nothing elitist about it.In my younger days I went to an andhra neighbour for lunch . They were seated in no2 position as in toilets on the ground and I had the oppertunity of having food made up of large rice balls mixed with oil and many very spicy podis of various colours. I ate with tears down by cheeks with lots of water. I remember it even after 50 years

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,
In our family, eating the food left over by children is supposed to reduce their life! :fear:

It is good to follow this because later on, the child could be trained easily NOT to waste food and take only what is needed in the plate.

FYI, in some orthodox families, there are two sets of tumblers and spoons. One set is called 'echchil' tumbler and spoons! Coffee served

should not be sipped, if given in the 'madi' tumbler!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Prof Sir,

It is embarrassing to watch some people eat! Right from childhood, I don't like to see someone's tongue protruding out to carry the food in! :dizzy:

 

[krish44]

You are now revealing your unfamiliarity, or dare I say ignorance, of my past posts in this forum. Whatever may have been the merit, I did take a whole lot of my time and effort in the precise endeavor you are encouraging me to engage in. Please sir, don't let your lack of awareness of facts drive you to give free advice as to what sort of productive endeavors I must engage in. If you still cannot resist the urge, please do the necessary homework, take a look at the series of posts I have made on Azhvar pasurams in past, they are all there in the archives, all you have to do is look for them.

Now, I really feel sorry for you, you seem to be completely oblivious of the progressive message of Azhvars more than thousand years ago. Whenever any Azhvars spoke about varna, they rejected it quite forcefully. So, I just don't understand what you are talking about. My beef, or வெண்டைகாய் as the case may be, is not with Azhvars, they were great on this issue, it is with the later Brahminical commentators who diluted the original message, and the even later SV acharyas who completely turned the table on its head and never put into practice even the diluted interpretations of the commentators. So, please, understand, I have enormous respect for the Azhvars for the kind of society they envisioned. If you care to look through the archives this would be evident to you.

It is not about my luck, it is about the present day SVs wanting to be like the ayatollahs, if that is what they want to be like, let them bring it on. But let us be clear on one thing, when it comes to varna, the Azhvars are with me, not them, and I can prove it with their own words.

sorry , i have no access to archives . if you have a link let me know . iwill stand educated
there appears to be a fine distinction by you between azhvars and the brahminic commentatators or sv achayas after them. It is like saying the prophet was good and Imams following were bad. you could get away with this explanation
salman rushdie could not get away with his. you may shout from roof tops that azhvars are with you. you are a fit case for SVs to fix


.

 

[renuka]

All this is well and good if wife's echchil is as much satvik to the husband as husband's echchil is to the wife. The big deal is not about what carnal love leads one to relish, which can be much more than just echchil "come" on, it is about what the acharam rules are and what is acceptable, i.e. satvik, and what is forbidden.

Dear Nara ji,

I dont see saliva as sattva,tamas,rajas etc..its just some ptialin and amylase with a good amount of non harmful or at times harmful bacteria.

If anyone is going to follow Acharam that male saliva is Sattva etc..then they should not be kissing and god knows what else with their wives!LOL

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,
In our family, eating the food left over by children is supposed to reduce their life! :fear:

It is good to follow this because later on, the child could be trained easily NOT to waste food and take only what is needed in the plate.

FYI, in some orthodox families, there are two sets of tumblers and spoons. One set is called 'echchil' tumbler and spoons! Coffee served

should not be sipped, if given in the 'madi' tumbler!

Dear RR ji,

In my parents house..my dad is paranoid about Ecchil.

If we are caught using his clean washed tumbler to drink water he would give us a proper scolding.

In fact all 3 of us siblings used to have our own stainless steel tumblers,plates and spoons with our names engraved on it!

RR Ji ..you sound a lot like my dad.

 

[renuka]

Dear Prof Sir,

It is embarrassing to watch some people eat! Right from childhood, I don't like to see someone's tongue protruding out to carry the food in! :dizzy:

Dear RR ji,

Every community has their own way of eating.

Last year while I was eating at the air port while waiting for my flight to India..one Australian female tourist was actually passing a remark about Asians to me.

She had ordered some chicken dish and she asked me "how come Asians do not have knives at their restaurants..how do you manage to eat food without a knife..I take it no one here knows how to use a knife"

I said "for me since I am a vegetarian I do not need a knife to eat..a fork and spoon or a using my hands will do and Chinese eat meat/chicken etc with a chopstick and Malays are like Indians..they use hands to eat or fork and spoon when needed..knife is not used mostly"

So you see RR ji..each person wonders 'how does the other person eat like this and like that"

 

[Vaagmi]

echil sesham consumption is unhygienic . it cannot be justified quoting mythological figures. there are no exceptions. let us not bring in Azhvars who may be dear to some. let us use our common sense . we need not pay heed to what a person dubbed atheist says. we can use our own brains to condemn a bad practice

Dear krish,

No need for any anxiety. No Alwar said anything like that. It is the misinterpretation by a ex-vaishnav who did not understand vaishnavism or Alwar correctly. We can ignore that and decide the issue at hand on the basis of merits.

 

[Vaagmi]

Why not? Is there a rule that public or historical figures why may be dear to some must not be brought into a discussion? AFAIK, in this forum there is only one public godman who is outside bounds of any discussion that is not adoringly reverential and worshipful. Besides, I didn't say anything bad about Azhvar, so why can't I bring Azhvar into it to make a point, what is the problem anyhow?

Also, me being an atheist is completely irrelevant, bringing that up is one of those diversionary tactics used to evade and escape.

Finally, I do agree with your observation that we need to use our common sense and not look at these silly acharam rules as sacrosanct.

Dear krish,

My thoughts on the member's post:

1. Some people here think they have a birth right to bring gutter here and spray it all around.

2. So an ex-vaishnav has the right to misinterpret or "interpret" Alwars the way he wants- like the street corner தீப்பொறி speaker considers it his right to speak nonsense about God, Acharyas and scriptures of Hindus.

3. Being an atheist is very relevant to the views expressed and interpretations presented. Because that decides the way an atheist member understands what is said in religious literature. It is childish to impute diversionary effort when someone points this out.

4. It is nice to hear people saying common sense must be used. There can not be any argument about this. Please, for heaven's sake (or Science's sake!!) use only common sense and decide on issues. There is no need to bring in Alwar misinterpreting his words. Let us keep Alwar away and have just common sense.

 

[sarang]

Kannappar, sabari, avvaiyar situations are unique and special; their acts done voluntarily and spontaneously without inhibition or considering after effects are admired and respected by a vast section of hindus. Sesham does not mean that 'left overs on the leaf', but 'food remaining in the house'. I do not think eating the leftovers from the leaf was made compulsory for anyone.

I have seen only one of my relatives, a very old aunt, eating from the same plate (not leaf) after her husband finished the meal. She lived in chennai and not in a village; it must have been the practice of her mil. She did it on her own, even though her husband did not encourage it.

Exchange of chocolate or toffee or pan, mouth to mouth is not uncommon among young male-female lovers (377 may change this); and glorified by the movies, despite medical findings that the mouth has more bacteria than any other part of the body.

Sharing a plate or reuse of plate from another under certain circumstances is valid even today, but the rules and conditions are different. Family members or machchis (gang friends).

No one is forced to do this whether sanctioned or not by sastras. Some get hyper active and shower echil all over the place.

You are right, we do not know what happens in the kitchen or behind the counters in eateries. In all cooking programs, the western chef licks the food a couple of times before serving. At least in our culture, tasting is not allowed before offering to god.

Dear Sir,

The usual example given is the 'echchil kari' that KaNNappa nAyanAr offered to Lord Shiva. :hail:

But, it is difficult to eat other person's 'echchil' stuff from the shop / at the dinners!

 

[sarang]

Good advice.

Dear Sarang,

Alwars were very devout evolved souls. Atheists or people who are sold on atheism can never understand them or their bhakti. So when an atheist interprets Alwar it will be like a butcher commenting on a jain meal he ate. Alwar's work has been many times taken out of context here in this forum in lengthy Scholarly(?) dissertations , torn to pieces, totally misinterpreted, a lot of nonsense loaded and conclusions reached which are totally contradictory to what Alwars said in their simple poems - all done in this forum just because some one was a vaishnav turned atheist. It is like that Black Shirt crusader subvi (big river's walking stick) asking nonchalantly the audience how Brahma can steal a look at Parvati when she was taking bath because of which mischief he lost one of his four heads? How do you explain to these people any thing? So they know only three things-1. no god 2. no varna 3.Brahmins are solely responsible for varna/caste system. Better keep away from them. Don't ever expect a useful informed discussion with these people. They do not know what is that. My piece of advice to you. Take it or leave it.

 

[sarang]

Are there non hindu brahmins?

Atheists issue fatwas on timid and unlucky brahmins.

hindu brahmins are not miiltants. they do not issue fatwas. you are lucky

 

[Vaagmi]

Now, I really feel sorry for you, you seem to be completely oblivious of the progressive message of Azhvars more than thousand years ago. Whenever any Azhvars spoke about varna, they rejected it quite forcefully. So, I just don't understand what you are talking about. My beef, or வெண்டைகாய் as the case may be, is not with Azhvars, they were great on this issue, it is with the later Brahminical commentators who diluted the original message, and the even later SV acharyas who completely turned the table on its head and never put into practice even the diluted interpretations of the commentators. So, please, understand, I have enormous respect for the Azhvars for the kind of society they envisioned. If you care to look through the archives this would be evident to you.

Dear krish,

Alwars have to be branded "progressive" to suit our views. Because we are at the horns of a dilemma, unable to turn completely an atheist for that requires wiping the slate clean of all theistic stuff and Alwars have given us a lot of that. So we interpret it and give them a certificate that they were very "progressive". And when it comes to later SV Acharyas and "brahminical" commentators we have the freedom to criticise freely without any qualms. They were/are brahmins and any way criticising brahmins is nothing but a few more punches delivered to that punching bag. No one is going to complain. Thus we have "enormous" respect for Alwars but contempt for commentators and Acharyas. This is the line of argument you will find if you care to go into the archives here. As the ex vaishnav is articulate, you will find the argument presented cogently and in good English. There is nothing more to it. Don't waste your time on that.

It is not about my luck, it is about the present day SVs wanting to be like the ayatollahs, if that is what they want to be like, let them bring it on. But let us be clear on one thing, when it comes to varna, the Azhvars are with me, not them, and I can prove it with their own words.

Alwars were far beyond varna. They did not have the mind to think about the varnas with any victimhood grievances as the modern arm chair intellectuals do. So there is nothing to prove. If an effort is made it will only become clear how a biased mind suffers from delusions and look at every thing in the colors of varna, caste, supremacy, atrocities etc., etc., The Alwars will be laughing at these jokers from their abode in the SriVaikuntam.

 

[sarang]

In childhood, even among brothers we used the plate after one finished idli or dosa, both for convenience and reduce mother's washing load. Now, as you point out, is practiced by many couples.

Rules are there, but how to apply and when to apply are also important.

Sri Vedanta desikar, concludes his 'aahara niyam' with the closing remark - the rules will vary depending on, jati, asramam, desam, season, celestial events (grahanam), parvam etc, and one has to frequently get his doubts cleared from the learned.

Dear Krish ji,

I like to eat from same plate as husband..I am the ultimate clean up machine!LOL

My husband has a tendency to not finish every item in his plate..so once he is done eating I usually eat what he left on his plate but not too often...I always tease him "see I am such a good wife"!LOL

Actually for me its no big deal cos I dont like seeing food wasted..even when my son does not finish his food and he tells me.."amma can you help me finish up"

I tell him to pass me his plate and I eat what he can not finish if he is eating a veg meal.

BTW my husband also sometimes finishes the food that I cant finish.

 

[Nara]

....No need for any anxiety. No Alwar said anything like that. It is the misinterpretation by a ex-vaishnav who did not understand vaishnavism or Alwar correctly. We can ignore that and decide the issue at hand on the basis of merits.

Your kind of ignoring seems never to miss a post of mine not just to read but to respond as well albeit indirectly. I am getting smothered with all this ignoring LOL!

 

[Nara]

sorry , i have no access to archives .

The archives are open to all members, all you have to do is explore. I am not saying you have to do it, but before making comments like the one you made it would be a rational thing to get to get to know the facts.

there appears to be a fine distinction by you between azhvars and the brahminic commentatators or sv achayas after them. It is like saying the prophet was good and Imams following were bad. you could get away with this explanation

These are your characterizations borne out of ignorance of what my views are, this ignorance is due to your lack of effort to find out -- my views have been expressed in this forum for years and all you have to do is look for them, i.e. if you want to comment on them, otherwise, just leave it, but to insist on making ignorant comments without bothering to know the facts is reckless.

salman rushdie could not get away with his. you may shout from roof tops that azhvars are with you. you are a fit case for SVs to fix.

I am sure if people like Vaagmi are representatives of present day SV they will surely like to come after me, perhaps they can take a leaf out of their rival Brahmins and even have me taken out சதக் சதக் style. But the fact remains, Azhavars views on equal treatment is consistent with my views than the present day SVs, although azhvars wanted it only among SVs, but I want the circle extended to all humanity. Also, I don't have to shout from anywhere, the Azhvars themselves have done it, and also, many believe, erroneously I might add, that the SV patron acharya Ramanuja did just that, literally.

 

[prasad1]

I am appalled at the comments made here about 'echchil' and love.
People in love share body fluids, but that does not mean they do it in public, that would be porn.
In this day and age, being aware of hygiene we need to take care of our surroundings.
In most of the places in buffet line you are asked not to bring your used plates, instead take a new one.
Should you share your body fluids if you know you have active deceases like AIDS, hepatitis, or other communicable diseases?
There is place for love and a place for decorum. Let us not confuse the issues.

 

[Raji Ram]

.......... Sesham does not mean that 'left overs on the leaf', but 'food remaining in the house'. I do not think eating the leftovers from the leaf was made compulsory for anyone. ....... .

Dear Sir,

I know the meaning of sEsham. Ram's mom used to say, there is no sEsham for milk and ghee! They should be kept away from 'paththu' and that is it.

In some families, if food is given to the servant maid, elders will not eat the sEsham! I used to feel bad by this practice. The food is prepared by us and

a portion given to the maid. So what is wrong in eating the rest of the food? Even now some people are unchanged! I my maid is in a hurry, I give her

share of the breakfast before we eat!

 

[Raji Ram]

I have heard and also seen that all the 'purushAs' have the nice portion of the food - like idlis made from top portion of the batter and so on!

The ladies batch will be after the gents batch. So, the husband might be purposely asking for more (nice) food and leave it on the leaf so that

his wife can have some of it, which otherwise she may not get! Probably that was the idea of making the wife use the husband's leaf / plate!

Husband will not get a chance to eat in wife's plate because she will be never allowed to eat before him.

Of course, I am NOT writing about this generation!