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Brahmins for Bharathanatyam and Saastriya sangeetham

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harini,

pray enlighten me as to the characterestics of 'high moral ground'. ie how does it personify in a person, and how does it benefit a community?

personally, i think, brahmins are just another tribe, among the various tribes of tamil nadu. we are (& should be) neither inferior or superior. just equal.

taking a moral approach to aspects of day to day living, i am not sure, achieves anything. there is no substitute to hard work, honesty and gentleness. if at all anything, i think, these qualities may qualify for 'high moral ground' than singing and dancing. i think so.
 
Excellence leads to eminence

Hard work, honesty and gentleness are possible easily for connoisseurs (Rasikas) of fine art. Better if they are performers. All artists are just not equal. Some are good and others are novice. But it will be only immaturity to distinguish as inferior and superior. Bharathanatyam like fine arts are valued as equivalent to veda and yoga in our tradition. Exponents of this art will excel in anything they do. A Tanjore painting done by an exponent of Bharathanatyam will have the right finish. Others who do such paintings will not get such finish and so will come out only with kid's stuff. Saastriya sangeetham will just give the right authority in the speech one deliver. Others will fail and will just speak for a speech
kunjuppu said:
harini,

pray enlighten me as to the characterestics of 'high moral ground'. ie how does it personify in a person, and how does it benefit a community?

personally, i think, brahmins are just another tribe, among the various tribes of tamil nadu. we are (& should be) neither inferior or superior. just equal.

taking a moral approach to aspects of day to day living, i am not sure, achieves anything. there is no substitute to hard work, honesty and gentleness. if at all anything, i think, these qualities may qualify for 'high moral ground' than singing and dancing. i think so.
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RVR said:
Administrative services in Government was once dominated by brahmins.

In 70's and 80's, Public sector was dominated by brahmins. In the same period, CA, ICWA, ACS was patronised by brahmins but it is being vacated now due to corruption in Tax departments.

Software, BPO and Call centre are the main focus for brahmin boys and girls now. Getting into an engineering college or doing MCA is not at all difficult for our community.

Off late I am seeing lot of people opting for Financial services though MBA programs.

Nowadays Artists are patronized by expatriates in a big way. Artistes fly to USA, Canada, Australia and Gulf with ease and make money in Dollars. So it is being patronised by our community.

If we have to sum up, it is just money which matters. Most of our community members doesn't violate law of the land. If they keep moral and ethical standards also, then there is no problem in pursuing any profession.

I wish our boys and girls avoid Cinema/TV which are not our cup of tea.

All the best
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Dear RVR,

Brahmin dominance in the administrative services was a trail of the British government set-up. When other castes/communities found out that they were also equally capable to pass the tests and shoulder the responsibilities, naturally the presence of brahmins decreased.

Public sector was only an extended arm of the govt/s and so Tamil brahmins found a way to land in top jobs there also till others flooded the available slots and caste/region considerations came into the fore.

CA/MBA, civil, mechanical, automobile etc. engg., etc. are not preferred now by smart boys since they will end up with second preference in the marriage market. Where is the chance for a CA or doctor to migrate to US unless he qualifies specially for practice there? Even then practising accountancy in US is a difficult proposition since one does not get clientele so easily.

Hence let us encourage all TB boys to excel in computer and electronics, emigrate to the west so that there will be no need for Naveena Swayamvarams for the laggards, a problem you have been pointing out.
 
sangom said:
Dear RVR,

Brahmin dominance in the administrative services was a trail of the British government set-up. When other castes/communities found out that they were also equally capable to pass the tests and shoulder the responsibilities, naturally the presence of brahmins decreased.

Public sector was only an extended arm of the govt/s and so Tamil brahmins found a way to land in top jobs there also till others flooded the available slots and caste/region considerations came into the fore.

CA/MBA, civil, mechanical, automobile etc. engg., etc. are not preferred now by smart boys since they will end up with second preference in the marriage market. Where is the chance for a CA or doctor to migrate to US unless he qualifies specially for practice there? Even then practising accountancy in US is a difficult proposition since one does not get clientele so easily.

Hence let us encourage all TB boys to excel in computer and electronics, emigrate to the west so that there will be no need for Naveena Swayamvarams for the laggards, a problem you have been pointing out.
Click to expand...

Engineering degrees are still an attraction for all our boys. Irrespective of basic degree whether it is civil or mechanical or chemical, software companies recruit them and train them in the necessary domain.

MBA continues to be a very attractive proposition for our youngsters. Specialization is done mostly on finance related fields and they land up in investment banking, wealth management, derivatives like fields.

CA, ICWA, ACS etc are avoided nowadays which was dominated by our community just few decades back. Probably corruption in tax departments is forcing our boys to avoid these professions.

Now just any basic graduation with good communication abilities in English helps them in getting BPO/Call Centre jobs.

I think our community will adjust to the changing circumstances much faster and continue to defy `Reservation Rules' of the Government.

All the best
 
I feel that the respondents to this thread are not dancing to the tune. It is not about career but about culture. The rat race for career will never carry culture along. So the question is whether we have to evolve or regain a cultural identity and will it be possible for us to shoulder the responsibility of guarding our culture? I feel that it is not possible for me for I don't see any mechanism by which people like me will get any enlightenment on any of our cultural stuffs. I am getting informed about Cinema and thus I can defend the argument of Kollywood as our cultural identity. How do I get to know as to what is happening with our classical music and dance?
 
Seek and you will get it

Knowledge comes only to the seekers. Brahmins should seek knowledge of Bharathanatyam and Saastriya sangeetham. It is unfortunate that nowadays we get unsolicited information dumped on to us by all the media and Kollywood is one such thing in Tamilnadu. But those who see Kollywood as the ultimate thing of our culture has to be cured for nothing the media report will qualify as knowledge component of Kollywood. The real fact is that our classical art forms impart the real knowledge required for Kollywood as well. NSP has to just seek knowledge then getting carried away by Kollywood dumps.
 
"Knowledge comes only to the seekers. Brahmins should seek knowledge of Bharathanatyam and Saastriya sangeetham."

True what I seek I get. But why Bharathanatiyam & Sastriyas Sangeetham? I seek only what interest me. Are you suggesting all Brahmins should be interested in Bharathanatiyam & Sastriya Sangeetham and if not interested what do you brand them as? If I am interested to have knowledge in Bio medics will Bharathanatyam is of any use to me? Please enlighten what is the knowledge your talking about and what are the "other means" your were suggesting in your previous posts? Jambu:crazy:
 
The very word Bharatanaatyam (BN) shows that it was designed by Bharata, who was not a Tamilian. "Sadir Attam" was most probably not exactly BN but some adaptation to serve its purpose. It was only in the last century that BN became acceptable to TBs.

Carnatic Music (CM) has shrunk, during the last century, to a monopoly of brahmins. While the artists of the past, both Bs and NBs made a lot of money through CM, it has become a pure business of late. Once a well-known mridangist said (nearly ten years ago) in a TV interview that it is the Sabha Secretaries who rule the CM world. Even for prime-time kutcheris for first grade artistes the payment is around Rs.10,000/= only and that is all-inclusive, meaning, the supporting artistes have to be arranged by the main one within this amount! Naturally, he said, they tend to sing kritis in Adi taalam and Rupaka taalam only since most of the times, the mridangist is not conversant with more intricate taalas.

I also know an aspiring singer who is not able to get much of a chance because it seems there are coteries behind the "season circuit" as well as the Academy.

In such a polluted atmosphere we need not expect our youngsters to learn CM. The fate of BN people is worse, if anything. While kutcheris are many, dance performances are few.

To make it compulsory for TBs to acquire knowledge of CM and BN will be very Tughlaq-like.
 
புதிய ப்ராமணர்களும் கர்னாடக ப்ராமணர்கள&#

Dr Ji, You seek for knowledge and may end only as a Rasika. A Rasika automatically will have interest on these art forms no matter what hos / her other interest are. This knowledge of fine art will enhance your command in your core competent field as well. Shall I suggest calling someone without such interest in fine art as 'karnatakam'. Anything you seek with devotion is knowledge. Including the school education - information dumped on to you do not qualify as knowledge automatically.
Dr.T.N.Jambunathan said:
But why Bharathanatiyam & Sastriyas Sangeetham? I seek only what interest me. Are you suggesting all Brahmins should be interested in Bharathanatiyam & Sastriya Sangeetham and if not interested what do you brand them as? If I am interested to have knowledge in Bio medics will Bharathanatyam is of any use to me? Please enlighten what is the knowledge your talking about and what are the "other means" your were suggesting in your previous posts? Jambu:crazy:
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Dr Ji, You seek for knowledge and may end only as a Rasika. A Rasika automatically will have interest on these art forms no matter what hos / her other interest are. This knowledge of fine art will enhance your command in your core competent field as well
I think Great arts appeals to the heart than Brain To appreciate art you need heart and nothing else " you seek for knowledge and end only as Rasikia . If there is no Rasika You will be performing in empty halls You seem to be insulting your Rasikas! Jambu
 
Sabhash to Sabha secretaries

Lord Shiva is also not a Tamil till you see him as Natarajan of Kanakasabai. To correct you, BN became a Taboo to TBs in the last century and the same got reversed by the end of the century. Almost all the Sabha secretaries are Brahmins and these people were organizing festivities in Temples in yesteryears with the patronage of Temple and Kings. But later the dance performance at temples have been banned and termed illegal, they have to continue the show only with the patronage from other quarters - Rasikas and Artistes. That is what is happening now and there is no use in blaming the Sabha Secretaries for it.

One may wonder as to how some temples manage to arrange performances in the temple auditorium. It is illegal as per law of the land today but nothing will be enforced till a Brahmin try it! It is the Secretaries to these shows who swindle the money they collect. All major Sabhas maintain account for they are all properly registered.
sangom said:
The very word Bharatanaatyam (BN) shows that it was designed by Bharata, who was not a Tamilian. "Sadir Attam" was most probably not exactly BN but some adaptation to serve its purpose. It was only in the last century that BN became acceptable to TBs.

Carnatic Music (CM) has shrunk, during the last century, to a monopoly of brahmins. While the artists of the past, both Bs and NBs made a lot of money through CM, it has become a pure business of late. Once a well-known mridangist said (nearly ten years ago) in a TV interview that it is the Sabha Secretaries who rule the CM world. Even for prime-time kutcheris for first grade artistes the payment is around Rs.10,000/= only and that is all-inclusive, meaning, the supporting artistes have to be arranged by the main one within this amount! Naturally, he said, they tend to sing kritis in Adi taalam and Rupaka taalam only since most of the times, the mridangist is not conversant with more intricate taalas.

I also know an aspiring singer who is not able to get much of a chance because it seems there are coteries behind the "season circuit" as well as the Academy.

In such a polluted atmosphere we need not expect our youngsters to learn CM. The fate of BN people is worse, if anything. While kutcheris are many, dance performances are few.

To make it compulsory for TBs to acquire knowledge of CM and BN will be very Tughlaq-like.
Click to expand...
 
Dr.T.N.Jambunathan said:
Dr Ji, You seek for knowledge and may end only as a Rasika. A Rasika automatically will have interest on these art forms no matter what hos / her other interest are. This knowledge of fine art will enhance your command in your core competent field as well
I think Great arts appeals to the heart than Brain To appreciate art you need heart and nothing else " you seek for knowledge and end only as Rasikia . If there is no Rasika You will be performing in empty halls You seem to be insulting your Rasikas! Jambu
Click to expand...

Dr.ji,

I am afraid to say that you may be wrong. Recent research proves that there is a direct correlation between music and intelligence. Music apparently creates new neural pathways in the brain linked to intelligence levels. It has also been found that music changes the structure of water molecules favorably when played. So if the human body is composed mostly of water, will that not have an effect? Same with beneficial chants where water molecules form patterns which are pleasant to look at.

I think fine arts have a positive impact on mental and thereby the physical wellbeing of the body. my 2 cents.

Thanks
 
Yes yes Music will bring rain. Music cures hypertension. But yet you go to doctor for Hypertensin and not to music Academy for high BP. If you have BP I would advise to cosult your doctor than going to MA. Music may be a tranquilizer. The choice is yours Cheers Now even the established system of Homeopathy which is practiced for over 100 years is being questioned and people want this even banned in England and want it to be removed from National heath schemes. Jambu:bored:
 
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Dr. Ji,

you are forgetting one important thing. Prevention is better than cure. There is still a possibility to control BP with alternative methods before going to the doc. In my opinion, a life of moderation with pranayama, yoga or some form of exercise followed by everyone can keep diseases at bay. ok, I realise I am deviating from the original topic so will stop here.
 
Prevention is better than cure
This is the foundation of to days medical delivery systems Your point well taken Like pulse Polio etc
Are you suggesting similar doses of music for prevention of BP? Jambu
 
Not music alone. I am suggesting a holistic approach. With current stress levels at a peak, we must use whatever tools we have at our disposal. Music is probably one.
 
An Entrepreneurial Opportunity

[FONT=&quot]My `1/-[/FONT]

Recently I attended a get-together discussion by SJM (Swadeshi Jaagran Manch , though an All India Economic wing of Sangh Pariwar, is a group dominated by Brahmins and steered by Shree Gurumurthi in Tamilnadu) that discussed entrepreneurial opportunities that remains untapped in the field of classical art and dance. For example an NRI artiste is ready to spend [FONT=&quot]`200000/- for performing in Chennai when the same can be arranged excellently by an organizer in Chennai at much cheaper prize thus providing scope for good margin. The speaker said the opportunity could be cashed in only by those with right knowledge and felt that it should not be left to some MNC event managers. He quoted examples like Boli making, Appalam etc wherein the communities that had the right knowledge has left it to communities like Nadars to cash-in on the opportunities.[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
 
Over dose

Music and dance alone you can go for any amount of over dose. Don't ever try it with other substances!
anandb said:
Not music alone. I am suggesting a holistic approach. With current stress levels at a peak, we must use whatever tools we have at our disposal. Music is probably one.
Click to expand...
 
Why no post?

I don't understand as to why any thread come to halt after my post. If I have posted something which is absolutely cannot be argued against, I can atleast get appreciation for it. If it is nonsense... somebody has to tell that to me!
 
rkb,

don't blame yourself or anyone else. posts have a mind of their own. they start up and die for no known reason to be fathomed by others. maybe this too will rise again, from the proverbial ashes. :)
 
There is no monopoly on classical arts.

when i was abroad in canada, there was a vibrant carnatic and bharathnatyam community, and it was maintained almost entirely by sri lankan tamils almost all of whom are not brahmins. their dedication towards it is impressive. far more impressive than some of the TB communities I have come across also.
 
just yesterday i watched the awesome sight of 1000 dancers in the thanjavur temple. the songs that were danced to, were tamil, which was icing on the cake.

my cousin was one of the participants.

i was able to see it 'live', through live streaming courtesy of kutcheribuzz.com. good stuff, all these technologies :)
 
Dear Mr. kunjuppu,

I too witnessed the classical dance performed by a large group of the disciples of
Dr. Padma Subramaniam.

I strongly believe that a highly evolved form of art such as Bharatanaatyam can not be presented in the form of a "mass drill!"

More so because the Bhaavas and the rasas are lost in the crowd extending, so to say, to the horizon!

Perfect coordination is almost impossible and the effect will be jarring to the trained eyes.

Experimenting is alright to some extent but it should not kill the very essence and pleasure of the art being performed!

with warm regards,
Visalakshi Ramani.
 
Dear Mr. Prasanth,

I agree with you in your statement that T.Brahmins do not monopolize the divine arts of music and dance, any more.

Most of my students in Sangeetha Naatyaalayaa in Visakhapatnam, belonged to Kerala and Andhra and very few were Tamil Brahmins.

In fact I found that Keralites make sure that their children learn at least one fine art properly. The proof is the T.V show Idea Star Singer being watched universally!

Now we have come to stage of asking," Why we should learn any fine arts at all?"

What a fall from our original position!

Every person who learns an art NEED not become a performing artist, or a professional.

An Art can learnt for the sake of the Art. Any art is sure to refine the human mind and make him/her a better person-both sympathetic and empathetic!

with best wishes,
Mrs.V.R.
 
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Visalakshi Ramani said:
Dear Mr. kunjuppu,

I too witnessed the classical dance performed by a large group of the disciples of
Dr. Padma Subramaniam.

I strongly believe that a highly evolved form of art such as Bharatanaatyam can not be presented in the form of a "mass drill!"

More so because the Bhaavas and the rasas are lost in the crowd extending, so to say, to the horizon!

Perfect coordination is almost impossible and the effect will be jarring to the trained eyes.

Experimenting is alright to some extent but it should not kill the very essence and pleasure of the art being performed!

with warm regards,
Visalakshi Ramani.
Click to expand...

Well said Madam.
The entire show is another form of calisthenics, that is choreographed in the present day films, in the name of Dance.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore
 
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