Can Tamils follow the Tamil culture in abroad?

[shansnrmp]

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We have evidence of Tamils contact with the Romans and even Americans from the earliest period. But we don’t have memories of Tamil settlements in these countries during the ancient period. Scholars also infer that the imperial Cholas of the later days must have travelled as for as Mexico. However on the basis of dependable evidence we can say that large scale Tamil migration to African, West-Indian Ocean islands began to take place only in the 19th century.

chat clearly shows the countries suppliThe following ed by total Emigration from Madras Presidency.To Mauritius Bourbon (Reunion) 1874 -75 : 5,844
,, Ceylon--------------------------------------------: 17,227
,, British Burmah---------------------------------: 264
,, West Indies--------------------------------------: 3,043
,, Other places ------------------------------------: 3,614

With pitiable that all these migrate are lost their identity except Ceylon.
Interestingly seen, now after two centuries this chat is increasing as on dated 31 Mar 2011, say up to 80,000 H-1B visas alone. Under, the H-1B cap, U.S. Companies selected our youths for skilled works.

Unfortunately, these migrates were attracted by the life style and mounting salaries of this country. In this, no parents are kept away from this theory. As, the head of the family it is common to give better chances to give their kids. But they didn’t or doesn’t think about the demerits of this life. The main reason of not caring about the other aspects is that their kids yearnings are lot.

However, some parents worried about their kids who are residing in U.S.A. This applied to Europe, Gulf and African countries.
This is an important thing, to know the categories of visas.

American Government issues visas in various categories like Tourist visa, H1B and L-1 visa. Apart from this lot of higher study visas are given by the U.S.A. Here, there are no problems in the L-1 visa holders, because their companies took all responsibilities. They could not stay long term in this country.

Until these, problems are not arising to their parents. Whenever their kids or one of the family members induced or advised to stay or get P.R. the problems will begin.

In, the H1B cap there some risks meanly about their future. When compare to others these Peoples gets the P.R. easily, say within five to seven years. After, getting the P.R. they tried to bring up their kids in the western styles. This will damage their families and ours culture.

All parents having the confidence to them. They have trust upon the kids that he or she is not going out of culture. This may be true because they have brought up in Indian soil. But the question arises about their hereditary. This is really tough to the green card holders to brought their children as in Indian culture. What they are going to do? Are they going to allow the hardship to their native the way of settling in these brain drain country ?

Conclusion.

Obviously, one of my two sons is in U.S. as senior software consultant in Deloitte. Six years back at the beginning when he started his service it gives very pleasant to me. But after the first grand-daughter born we feel some pain in our hearts. While, thinking about our grand-daughter's future we have fear. Because, that situation is not well to her. In this circumstances what we are going to do?

I am leaving an unanswered questions before me with in the hope, may find solutions for this in the future.

By sivashanmugam.India.

 

[sangom]

Shri sivashanmugam,

Your post is really persuasive. Thank you for bringing up this question.

I understand that you (and your wife) are anxious that your granddaughter may not be brought up the way you will wish she is. But when your son and daughter-in-law are there in deloitte, US, as the child's parents they will know definitely how they should bring up their child.

Perhaps we as grandparents may have a right to think that we (must) know more than those parents, but that is a wrong notion.

Possibly your grand daughter will grow up in US imbibing some of the US culture, values, slang, and dress, etc. But so long as your son and dil are what they are, your grandchild will get all necessary inputs from her parents.

I say these things because my grandson, now 4 years old, understands Tamil well, speaks somewhat and is a very obedient and adorable child though at first look he will appear british!

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Sangom's advice in his post#2 is wonderful. Now a days with "SKYPE" you can virtually be here, and of course you should maintain as close a contact you can muster. In US, majority of PIO's maintain most of the customs of their families. There are every possible facilities are available. It is up to the parents and their ability and desire to use the facilities.
I wish you best of luck.

 

[shansnrmp]

Shri sivashanmugam,

Your post is really persuasive. Thank you for bringing up this question.

I understand that you (and your wife) are anxious that your granddaughter may not be brought up the way you will wish she is. But when your son and daughter-in-law are there in deloitte, US, as the child's parents they will know definitely how they should bring up their child.

Perhaps we as grandparents may have a right to think that we (must) know more than those parents, but that is a wrong notion.

Possibly your grand daughter will grow up in US imbibing some of the US culture, values, slang, and dress, etc. But so long as your son and dil are what they are, your grandchild will get all necessary inputs from her parents.

I say these things because my grandson, now 4 years old, understands Tamil well, speaks somewhat and is a very obedient and adorable child though at first look he will appear british!

Thank you for your nice comment upon my post.

Actually, am not aware of these general discussion forums. I am concentrated only in my related things forums. Apparently watching the new threads from my well-wishers,Thirumathi. Raji Ram. Mr.Haridasa Siva and Mr.Kunjuppu.

One fine morning Mrs.Raji Ram advised me to post my threads in this general discussion forums. She further added my work is only to round up the wheel means the only duty of mine is post the query in this platform. She further stated that this will be nursed by the senior members...

Obviously, your propitiated answer curing in one or two issues at present. In my opinion, this will be not in the long-term.
Here you have quoted that your grandson, now 4 years old, understands Tamil well, speaks somewhat and is a very obedient and adorable child though at first look he will appear British! Happy to know all this things. Nevertheless, we must think about the kid future. Because, he or she may take a very long journey in their life time.

 

[sangom]

Thank you for your nice comment upon my post.

Actually, am not aware of these general discussion forums. I am concentrated only in my related things forums. Apparently watching the new threads from my well-wishers,Thirumathi. Raji Ram. Mr.Haridasa Siva and Mr.Kunjuppu.

One fine morning Mrs.Raji Ram advised me to post my threads in this general discussion forums. She further added my work is only to round up the wheel means the only duty of mine is post the query in this platform. She further stated that this will be nursed by the senior members...

Obviously, your propitiated answer curing in one or two issues at present. In my opinion, this will be not in the long-term.
Here you have quoted that your grandson, now 4 years old, understands Tamil well, speaks somewhat and is a very obedient and adorable child though at first look he will appear British! Happy to know all this things. Nevertheless, we must think about the kid future. Because, he or she may take a very long journey in their life time.

Shri sivashanmugam,

The world is "shrinking" as they say often now. My grandfather perhaps did not visit any place beyond Ayikkudi near Shencottah (TN) which was his kuladeivam's temple. But today my children are in London and US. I may not visit them nor will I be spending my last days with them there, because of the better medical care (at cheaper costs) available here for me. But once we are aware that none of us will be here after some more years and what we now have is just an excursion out in this world, we will find the futility of trying to decide about the long-term future of our children or our grandchildren. Since you are also a grandfather, what we can do is to pray sincerely for the welfare of our kids, grandchildren and perhaps great grandchildren and pass away as peacefully as possible. The rest is up to that Supreme Power which directs this impossibly vast drama.


The moment we allow our children to go abroad on long term basis - either for job or by marriage - we should be ready to "lose" them partially, so to say. Though we have phone, skype, etc., today, all these will not be a substitute for our children being within our "reach"-which is anywhere in India according to me.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear sangom, siva,

Greetings to both of you.

I am 61, and belong to the earlier generation, the ones that left their parents in india and moved to Canada. being also the only son, did not help in assuaging my parents’ sense of loneliness or disappointment. But to their credit, they have NEVER ever mentioned this to me. their view was this was my life and I need to do whatever to eke out a living and more.

Mom and dad are long gone. Both wanted to die in india, and their wishes were fulfilled. I was there for both their passing ons, and did all the ceremonies to the full. Also, at the first year of my mom (dad preceded mom) I went to kasi gaya and completed my cycle of rituals, as advised by my aunt, who is like a second mother to me.

When I was young, I used to see occasional visitors from south Africa visiting madras, in search of their ancestral roots. These were, to me of then madras brought up, looked very foreign – women wearing skirts, speaking English with a strange accent and completely uncomfortable with our food. But with lots of money. Deep inside me, if I think now, I think, what bothered me most, was their loss of caste. Where will they fit in, within Indian society, I used to wonder. I was in my teens then.

I also grew up among anglo Indians – in that intolerant india of those times, just post independence, their lot was a hard one. also even in my neighbourhood, I was, because of my association with the anglo Indians, other Brahmin ‘elders’ used to mock me as ‘peekkaadu dorai’.

Now, at 61, with my children, growing up, even more stranger than what I had ever imagined, surprisingly I feel no worry of the future. My children, from the looks of it, are going to go out of Canada, and another generation seeks its fortunes elsewhere.

My wife and I talk about this often. To me, how difficult it must have been for my parents – phone calls had to be booked hours in advance, $4 a minute. Today it is free, due to skype. Airfares cost $1500 then return fare. Today I can get in today’s dollars, cheaper and quicker connections to Chennai. Does all this matter? Does this substitute the imagined feeling of comfort, of having your children and grand children living with you. NO.

But, please remember, I said, ‘imagined’ comfort. when it comes to our children, our sentiments rule.

What I have learned from living so long in the west, is the ability, to ‘let go’ of one’s kids. We have brought them into this world, brought them up to be self reliant and good/honest citizens capable of taking care of themselves. I think, if we form our mindset, that our duties towards our progeny is complete, and hope in the ultimate, they will give us a ‘pass’ mark for parenthood, we are doing ok.

The next generation, the grand kids, are the problems and issues of those that give birth to them. even if we live next door, in today’s fast changing world, barring the ‘baby sitting’ function, grand parents can/are unable to make any meaningful decisions on the lives of their grandchildren. Today’s parents are even more aware of the need for good education and head start needed for the demanding world of tomorrow. They are not simply going to let the grandma grandpas of the world to hold sway over their children’s growing up values and influences.

Mrs K and yours truly, have indicated to our children, that with them, duly launched into the world, without debt, is our commitment to them. with that our birth debt is completed. Ofcourse, the parent home is always a sanctuary, but not necessarily a free hotel or lodging. We are getting old, and do not have the energy to cater to the needs of our children re food or housekeeping anymore. We need our rest.

From what I have found, it is usually the grand mother, who bears the brunt of the work passed on by daughter or dil, especially at time of birth of grand child. To me, this is the most selfish act, performed by youngsters here in Canada or usa.i wish Indian parents, who willingly take on this second innings of parenthood based hardship, atleast speak honestly to their children. Most of the children here, earn enough, and can easily hire nannies. They are just plain cheap and selfish. many even ask the parents to foot the airfare.

Siva, do not grieve for the parting of distance from your grand daughter. Keep a picture of her, updated regularly, and wish and imagine her to be your ideal. The reality, probably would be disappointing, and it is a good thing that you are so far away, so as not to experience it.

God Bless.

ps.. today i find it exhilarating to have discarded my caste identity. atleast one thing i am proud of my children, is their ability to identify themselves proudly as hindus. sans caste ofcourse!

 

[sangom]

Kunjuppu,

An inspired write-up. Hats off to you!

 

[prasad1]

today i find it exhilarating to have discarded my caste identity. atleast one thing i am proud of my children, is their ability to identify themselves proudly as hindus. sans caste ofcourse!

I second Mr. Sangom's view.

 

[shansnrmp]

Shri sivashanmugam,

The world is "shrinking" as they say often now. My grandfather perhaps did not visit any place beyond Ayikkudi near Shencottah (TN) which was his kuladeivam's temple. But today my children are in London and US. I may not visit them nor will I be spending my last days with them there, because of the better medical care (at cheaper costs) available here for me. But once we are aware that none of us will be here after some more years and what we now have is just an excursion out in this world, we will find the futility of trying to decide about the long-term future of our children or our grandchildren. Since you are also a grandfather, what we can do is to pray sincerely for the welfare of our kids, grandchildren and perhaps great grandchildren and pass away as peacefully as possible. The rest is up to that Supreme Power which directs this impossibly vast drama.


The moment we allow our children to go abroad on long term basis - either for job or by marriage - we should be ready to "lose" them partially, so to say. Though we have phone, skype, etc., today, all these will not be a substitute for our children being within our "reach"-which is anywhere in India according to me.

Shri songom,

I have observed all the contents in your message. We have enjoyed all the amenities when compared to the ancestors' life. In no doubt we have lead a sophisticated life whenever compares to the ancestors. Yes, the world is shrinking. The other end of the world begins with an ending of the first start. It is revolve and revolve! Like that my ancestors perhaps my great-grand father lived in Tanjore Karunthatankudi 150 years ago.
At the beginning of the 18th century, they had migrated to Nedungoor a hamlet in Trichy district nearer to my town Karur. After settled, they had bought some dry lands for their live hood. Now they gave up their activity of pasturing livestock where in previous.

Again in the beginning of the 19th century they moved to Karur town and started the mundi shop business. Beginning of the nineteenth century they have moved. Because of this switchover they have to give good educations to their family. Seeing if my ancestors could not take the migrations it may be cause to stay at the same place within the limited resources.

Here we have seen even that the migrations were taken, our culture doesn’t not changed. Though the migrations were taken at various times, it should not affect the culture. Still on this date it permits our family value.

But, in this Tamils abroad case it is the mixed question of the facts and cultures.

So we have to think the both sides of merits and demerits.

Migration continue. See more...

 

[Raji Ram]

அய்யே மெத்தக் கடினம்!

இப்படி ஒரு பாடல் ஆரம்பமாகும்! அதுதான் எனக்கு நினைவில் வருகின்றது. வெளி நாட்டில் சென்று, நம் வாழ்க்கை முறை

தினப்படி வாழ்வது மெத்தக் கடினம். நான் அமெரிக்கா மற்றும் மலேசியா நாடுகளுக்கு மட்டுமே சென்றுள்ளேன்.

மலேசியாவில் சுடிதாருடன், புடவையுடன் உலவலாம். ஆனால், அமெரிக்க நாட்டைப் பொறுத்தவரை, கோவில்களுக்குச்

செல்லவும், நண்பர்களின் பார்ட்டிகளுக்குச் செல்லவும் மட்டுமே அந்த உடைகள் உபயோகமாகும். தினப்படி அவர்கள் நாட்டு

ஆடைகளையே பெண்கள் அணிகின்றார். தமிழ் நாட்டிலே எத்தனை ஆண்கள் வேஷ்டியோ, பஞ்சகச்சமோ அணிந்து

வேலைக்குச் செல்வார்கள்? இந்த ஊரிலேயே பான்ட் - சர்ட் அணியும்போது, அமெரிக்க நாட்டில் நம் உடைகளை

எதிர்ப்பார்ப்பது இயலாத விஷயம். 'அம்மா' ஆட்சியில் பள்ளி உடைகள் சுடிதார்களாக மாறிவிட்டன. இது எத்தனை வசதி,

பெண் குழந்தைகளுக்கு!


உணவு வழக்கம் என்று பார்த்தால், நம்ம சாம்பாரும், வத்தக் குழம்பும், பொரியலும், அவியலும் தினம் செய்ய யாருக்கு

நேரம் உள்ளது? பெரிய பாத்திரங்களில் சமைத்து வைத்து வாரம் முழுதும் 'மைக்ரோவேவ்' செய்து உண்பார்கள். பார்க்கும்

இடமெல்லாம் குறைந்த விலையில் Berger Pizza Noodles Sandwich Pasta என்று எளிதாகக் கிடைக்கும்போது, சமைக்க

சோம்பல் வருவது நிஜம்தான். நம்ம பசங்களே இந்த ருசிகளைப் பழகிவிடுகின்றார். சமைத்த பாத்திரம் தேய்ப்பதுதான்

பெரிய கவலையே!


அந்த நாட்டின் கலாச்சாரம் வேறுபட்டது. பொது இடங்களில் காதலரின் பழக்கங்கள் நம்மைக் கூசத்தான் வைக்கும். ஒன்பது

வயதுப் பெண் குழந்தைகளே கருத்தடை மாத்திரை உண்ணும் தேசம் அது! நமக்கு ஜீரணிப்பது மெத்தக் கடினம்! தமிழ்

நாட்டுக் கலாச்சாரத்தில் பெண்களை வளர்க்கும் பெற்றோர்களுக்கு, மிகுந்த பொறுமை தேவை. குழந்தைகள் கேட்டு

நடந்தால் சந்தோஷம். அவ்வளவே!


இங்கிருந்து படிக்கச் செல்லும் மாணவர்கள், காதல் வலையில் விழுவதும் சகஜம். 'ஒன்றே குலம்; ஒருவனே தேவன்', என்று

விட்டுவிடுவதே பெற்றோகளுக்கு அழகு! நம் சொல்படித் திருமணம் செய்துகொண்டால், அது நாம் செய்த பூர்வ ஜன்மப்

புண்ணியமே. வெள்ளைத் தோலுடன், அறிவாளிகளாக, பொம்மைகள் போலத் திரியும் சீனப் பெண்கள், நம்ம பசங்களை

எளிதில் கவர்ந்துவிடுவார்கள். இந்தியக் கணவர்கள், இந்திய நாட்டில்தான் மனைவிகளை மிரட்டிக் கொண்டு இருப்பார்கள்!

அங்கு சென்றாலே மாறிவிடுவார்கள். பிள்ளை வளர்ப்பு முதல், எல்லா வேலைகளையும் சமமாக அல்லது அதிக

சதவிகிதத்தில் ஏற்றுக்கொள்ள வேண்டும். அதுதான் ஆண்களுக்கு அழகு!


அவரவர் வாழ்க்கையை அவரவர் வாழவேண்டும். எனவே, 'வாழு; வாழ விடு!' என்பதைத் தாரக மந்திரமாகக் கொண்டால்,

நாம் வாழ்வில் உய்யலாம்!

eace:

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

A monthly magazine in Tamil'Thendral" is published in California and facilities are available to lead life as you lead in Tamilnadu.
Many families here are not finding any difficulty.
So the originator of this thread need not worry too much about long term future of his grand children.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear B. K. Sir,

Shall I tell you something? My sister in law who had been to California told me that if Tamil speaking people who are

not known to each other, come face to face, they avoid making any eye contact! Reason: The fear that the other one

may be an Amway product seller!!

Regards...........

 

[shansnrmp]

Dear B. K. Sir,

Shall I tell you something? My sister in law who had been to California told me that if Tamil speaking people who are

not known to each other, come face to face, they avoid making any eye contact! Reason: The fear that the other one

may be an Amway product seller!!

Regards...........

திருமதி ராஜி ராம்

வழக்கம் போல் நகைச்சுவை உங்கள் பேச்சில் ததும்புகின்றது ... அனேகமாக உங்களையும் என்னையும் தவிர இங்கு எல்லோரும் ''சீரியஸ்''

ஏழாம் வகுப்பு படிக்கும் பொழுது திரு.அருணாச்சலம் ஐயா பாடம் நடத்துவார்... மிகுந்த புலமை வாய்ந்தவர். அனால் அவரிடம் ஒரு குறை. வகுப்பில் மாணவர்கள் சிரித்தால் பிடிக்காது. ''பல்லிலுச்சான்'' லிஸ்ட் ஒன்று வைத்திருப்பார். யாரவது சிரித்துவிட்டால் போதும். 'டேய்' இவனையும் ''பல்லிலுச்சான்' லிஸ்டில் சேத்திவிடுங்க என்று சொல்லுவார். இதைகேட்டு சிரிப்பை அடக்க முடியாமல் எல்லா மாணவர்களும் விழிப்பார்கள். நானும் ''பல்லிலுச்சான்' லிஸ்டில் இருந்தேன்.

வாழ்க நகைச்சுவை உணர்வு!

 

[sangom]

The reality, as I have been able to gather so far is that our tabra people lead a life which is a compromise of sorts. While they do follow some aspects of life back here in India, they - and especially the young women, be they your daughters or dils - love the "freedom" and equality available to them there; dils love in addition the freedom from constant interference by mil.

The children are brought up in such a way that they will not be lacking in education and eligibility for jobs but some of our young couple who are earning too high salaries do try to bring up their children as western as they can.

All told, it is like a game of chance. It is very rare that your children or grandchildren will grow up the way you mentally cherish. So, cherish them, not how they live, is my advice to one and all.

 

[kunjuppu]

dear sangom,


re your post #14. you hit the nail on the head, re the tambram (& indian) women love living in the west.

it provides them with a freedom and opportunity, and respect in the workplace, and promotions, not available or denied in india.

mrs K took to living in canada like fish to water. not that she changed her lifestyle or values. it is just the sheer joy of smelling the fresh air of freedom, free from accounting every action, free from the supervisory scrutiny of the community and above all, being treated as an equal at the workplace. and at home, ofcourse

for that matter, most i mean most, tambram husbands, away from the clutches of the mother and family, turn out to be sweet hearts when living in the west. they do not feel either threatened or jealous of the newly acquired freedom of their wives.

it is my observation for tambrams alone, as i do not know about other communities enough to comment. also i do know, that in singapore, we carry our baggage, lock stock and barrel. our prejudices, exclusivity and tendency to control the female, appears to be intact -

which is double whammy, for in many cases, india has advanced, but this current expat generation living in singapore or malaysia appear to live in a time warped values of 1970s, 80s. again it is an observation based on a small count, mostly my family and friends. definitely not scientific

 

[kunjuppu]

[
இங்கிருந்து படிக்கச் செல்லும் மாணவர்கள், காதல் வலையில் விழுவதும் சகஜம். 'ஒன்றே குலம்; ஒருவனே தேவன்', என்று

விட்டுவிடுவதே பெற்றோகளுக்கு அழகு! நம் சொல்படித் திருமணம் செய்துகொண்டால், அது நாம் செய்த பூர்வ ஜன்மப்

புண்ணியமே. வெள்ளைத் தோலுடன், அறிவாளிகளாக, பொம்மைகள் போலத் திரியும் சீனப் பெண்கள், நம்ம பசங்களை

எளிதில் கவர்ந்துவிடுவார்கள். இந்தியக் கணவர்கள், இந்திய நாட்டில்தான் மனைவிகளை மிரட்டிக் கொண்டு இருப்பார்கள்!

அங்கு சென்றாலே மாறிவிடுவார்கள். பிள்ளை வளர்ப்பு முதல், எல்லா வேலைகளையும் சமமாக அல்லது அதிக

சதவிகிதத்தில் ஏற்றுக்கொள்ள வேண்டும். அதுதான் ஆண்களுக்கு அழகு!


அவரவர் வாழ்க்கையை அவரவர் வாழவேண்டும். எனவே, 'வாழு; வாழ விடு!' என்பதைத் தாரக மந்திரமாகக் கொண்டால்,

நாம் வாழ்வில் உய்யலாம்!

eace:

raji,

i hooted out in laughter, at your observation of chinese girls. i agree with you, these are among the smartest girls i have ever seen. and that too, almost as a default, i am inclined to respect the chinese girls for their sharpness and what we called 'chodi'.

i am not so sure, they are waiting to 'hook' our tambram guys. but where indian chinese marriage, though fewer than with whites, have a natural harmony. our value systems are the same - respect for parents, hard work, focus on education and such. only difference, is that the chinese eat anything that moves ...

good note!

 

[sangom]

dear sangom,


re your post #14. you hit the nail on the head, re the tambram (& indian) women love living in the west.

it provides them with a freedom and opportunity, and respect in the workplace, and promotions, not available or denied in india.

mrs K took to living in canada like fish to water. not that she changed her lifestyle or values. it is just the sheer joy of smelling the fresh air of freedom, free from accounting every action, free from the supervisory scrutiny of the community and above all, being treated as an equal at the workplace. and at home, ofcourse

for that matter, most i mean most, tambram husbands, away from the clutches of the mother and family, turn out to be sweet hearts when living in the west. they do not feel either threatened or jealous of the newly acquired freedom of their wives.

Kunjuppu,

When I went to Bombay in 1960, I found a similar freshness in the families and lives of the middle- and lower middle- class tabras living there, more specifically, the then peripheral (but now extremely congested) Goregaon where my elder sister lived in a single room accommodation. The womenfolk had new-found freedom, as you very rightly put it "free from accounting every action, free from the supervisory scrutiny of the community".

I remember a tabra widow (most probably PGT Pattar) with her two sons living in a single room chawl-like accommodation. The elder one got married and then mother and younger son would invariably go out to some temple, relative's house etc., on sundays and the mother used to openly say, சிறிசுகள், அவாளுக்கும் தனியா இருக்க கொஞ்சம் chance வேண்டாமோ, இந்த ஒரு ரூம் ஜாகைலெ வேறே நாங்கள் என்ன பண்ண முடியும்? இருக்கறதெ வெச்சுண்டு ஸந்தோஷமா இருந்தோமானால் கடவுள் கை நிறையத் தருவார். etc.

But the situation even then was worse in King's circle, Matunga areas, strongholds of tabras with a sufficiently strong population, gossip, சிண்டு முடிதல், carrying tales back home to native place/s and so on and the women living there used to cover their frustration with stories of the greatness of KC/M, the market value (pagdee) of their flats/chawl rooms and the sense of superiority arising therefrom.

The sad part as I have observed is that when we have a sizeable number of our people in any locality they tend to relapse into the traditional mode of society and this curbs individual freedom and demands compliance with community-sanctioned behaviour and responses. I wish some sociological study should bring out the psychology working in these matters.

 

[kunjuppu]

siva,

your post #9. thank you.

your family, i noticed has migrated to different places in tamil nadu. over time.

i am quite sure, that with each migration, they were changes that they had to adapt. it might have been so shocking, but every change of place, i think, demands a change in lifestyle, values or practices - albeit little enough to be unnoticeable.

you have identified the crux of the issue - migration. it is inevitable. for jeevanam sake, we all have moved. our ancestors have moved. our progeny will move.

they may stop practising some 'tamil' values. acquire others. have you ever met people of tamil origin from - south africa, mauritius, fiji, malaysia, singapore - and see how different each is.

sri lankan tamils, are a culture of their own.

all are tamils, just different shades. not to worry about your grand children. they will be ok. it is important that you are ok. with yourself. what is the use of worrying over factors over which you have no control?

thank you sir. warmest regards...

 

[shansnrmp]

siva,

your post #9. thank you.

your family, i noticed has migrated to different places in tamil nadu. over time.

i am quite sure, that with each migration, they were changes that they had to adapt. it might have been so shocking, but every change of place, i think, demands a change in lifestyle, values or practices - albeit little enough to be unnoticeable.

you have identified the crux of the issue - migration. it is inevitable. for jeevanam sake, we all have moved. our ancestors have moved. our progeny will move.

they may stop practising some 'tamil' values. acquire others. have you ever met people of tamil origin from - south africa, mauritius, fiji, malaysia, singapore - and see how different each is.

sri lankan tamils, are a culture of their own.

all are tamils, just different shades. not to worry about your grand children. they will be ok. it is important that you are ok. with yourself. what is the use of worrying over factors over which you have no control?

thank you sir. warmest regards...

My classmate Mr. Chandrasekhar who is well settled in USA in the year 1977. He married with a Brhamin girl when studying in Chennai. He belongs chattier caste. This is a settled one. Her father was an officer in AIR in Trichy. Both of them well placed in USA. 3 years back he came to Karur. I asked him about his daughters’ marriage. He simply said that to whom they selected as their life partner we will. I kept in silent.

I have typed this message to post this in sangom's box. But now I feel this is more suitable to post in your box. As said it is better to allow as they like. Whenever they have approached for the consent in this,this is right way to leave this for their own decision.

'ஒன்றே குலம்; ஒருவனே தேவன்', என்று
விட்டுவிடுவதே பெற்றோகளுக்கு அழகு! நம் சொல்படித் திருமணம் செய்துகொண்டால், அது நாம் செய்த பூர்வ ஜன்மப்
புண்ணியமே. (pasted from raji ram's version)

Thank you sir.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear siva,

re your post # 19

I do not agree with raji’s argument. On both counts. One that our children should marry whom we ask them. it is an alternate mode, and in today’s world with its complexities, it is simply not fair to our children, to put such restrictions on them.

How many of us truly know our children and what they think, like or want out of life. In fact, I think, our culture is among the most stratified ie the relationship between the father and the son, so formal and one clothed in ‘respect’ and not trust and conviviality. Simply saying, your father is not your friend with whom you confide. Not that it would help anyway.

Your friend chandrasekhar is absolutely correct in his approach to his daughter’s wedding. If she wants any help in looking, he should be ready to offer. Otherwise he should trust his daughter to find a spouse. If he had brought up with good value systems, chances are she will choose someone, who is not only compatible, but would be a partner for a contented life. Again there is no guarantee here, but we assume that she knows herself, and hopefully what she wants out of a spouse.

We should learn to let go of our children, when they have reached an adult stage. Why are we not so confident that they can make good decisions? Or better decisions than us? What is the reason for our insecurity? Don’t we have faith in the way we have brought them up? What is it that we are fearful of losing so much, that we need to cling on to our children, making their lives a misery?

Siva, I think, the problem is not the children. It is us. Parents. We need to grow up.

 

[Raji Ram]

....... our value systems are the same - respect for parents, hard work, focus on education and such. only difference, is that the chinese eat anything that moves ...

The Chinese girls work harder than bram. girls, who are usually pampered by their parents in India! They have the 'sraadham'

type ceremony once a year, to pay respect to the departed ancestors. Their value system is mostly like ours as you have

mentioned, Sir!

But not all of them eat everything they find moving ... There are strict vegans too who avoid the use of all animal products,

including milk and honey! Chinese veggie food are most sought after in Boston area!

Regards...........

 

[Raji Ram]

................
All told, it is like a game of chance. It is very rare that your children or grandchildren will grow up the way you mentally cherish. So, cherish them, not how they live, is my advice to one and all.

May be this is what our elders meant by saying வாழு; வாழ விடு! :decision:

Non interference is the best policy known to me, Sir!

 

[Raji Ram]

திருமதி ராஜி ராம்

வழக்கம் போல் நகைச்சுவை உங்கள் பேச்சில் ததும்புகின்றது .......... வாழ்க நகைச்சுவை உணர்வு!

நன்றி சண்முகம் சார்!
இடுக்கண் வருங்கால் கூட, நகைக்கச் சொன்னார் அல்லவா வள்ளுவப் பெருந்தகை? :laugh:

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Smt.Raji Ram,
I refer to your post no.12.I was told by my DIL that people here generally avoid (1)AMWAY IBOs (2)Members of Art of Living(Sri Sri Ravi sankher).My son is in software line and also doing Amway business.Most of the software persons here join Amway.I was myself an Amway
IBO for a few years while in Chennai but was never active.You will be astonished to know that one Mr.Kumar Sivaramakrishnan (affectionately called by Amway people as'Kumar') joined Amway
when he came to USA to do Masters,became successful by 29 years of age and quit his job in AT&T.He was the person who introduced Amway in India in 1998.If he comes on the stage ,the entire crowd mostly Americans, Indians and from other countries enjoy and applaud his speech.
I presume he may be getting roughly $30,000 to $40,000 per month sitting at home.Now he is in Amway business full time and a prominent leader.

 

[shansnrmp]

A monthly magazine in Tamil'Thendral" is published in California and facilities are available to lead life as you lead in Tamilnadu.
Many families here are not finding any difficulty.
So the originator of this thread need not worry too much about long term future of his grand children.

Thank you for the nice information.