Caveats...for venditors and emptors!! eh!!

[kunjuppu]

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saw this in another brahmin forum. there was a plea to circulate this. not sure if it is absurd funny sad ridiculous or unbelievable. take your pick.

i have only removed the names mentioned there..

Dear NNNNNNNN
Namaskarams.
Please publish this information on live case.. This is being written to ensure that other girls don't follow suit as well as boys of Brahmin families don't fall into trap of these type of unscrupulous habitual offenders.
---------------------------
I recently came across a horoscope of a girl aged 46 years a legal professional VVVVVV based out of Malleswaram/Kumarapark Bangalore Karnataka looking for marriage. In the initial stages of discussion, it was very cordial and her requests were three fold one,the groom should move to her place as she has to take care of her mother and periamma; second she has plans of working after marriage and third,she is bit ultra modern and not traditionalist.

During the engagement itself, we had informed her elders that we are not in for dowry/other articles to be given by them and that we are looking for a girl who can be of affection at our end. We didn't go in with their financial position/seek dowry/gold etc.

Having agreed to all these, I agreed for the proposal and after informal engagement last month, things started to change in the sense that her main demands went multifold.
1.Should relocate/get a job before marriage without any fail;Should bring a revenue of Rs.1.50 lakhs per month for lavish spending.
2.Entire things present in my residence need to be sold/disposed and new ones to be in place
3.Existing house in Cochin where I stay need to be sold and new brought there in Bangalore
4.Should give her an excellent gold chain inplace of taali charadu during marriage
5.Should give her absolute freedom with no room for questioning.
6.Should go to fitness gymn
7.Should listen to her only and oblige by what she says.
8.Should keep her happy always.
9.Should work to give her a child immly.
10.My existing house has to be renovated to her desires.
11.My relatives shouldn't visit at all.
12. She wont bring any funds at all.
13.Should be loyal to her only

The threatening part is if any of these conditions are not met, she would go in for divorce /commit suicide either before or after marriage.

Her dialogues at any point of time was she believed in timelines,commitments,discipline,well mannered etc. on the contrary its the other way.

She started shooting messages/telecalls on and off for status

Initially, I tried to convince her for the past 70 days but post that, I felt that if this is the type of issue pre-marriage,it will be difficult to survive post marriage.There were long mails/smses in odd hours of night/day time. I informed her that I wont be able to fulfill all her desires to the tune of 100% and on the job factor,its not easy to get it on one shot. Fedup with all these issues, I had shared the long mails with demands to her paternal uncle (as her father is no more) and then came the real shot, parting ways on account of mail shared with her mail and the funniest aspect was she had called my uncle and auntie and informed this while there is no call from her till now. I also understand from others in her family now that she is a habitual offender and that such type of incidents to the extent of 20% alliance cropped up earlier and finally got dropped by her.

Her elders are also not supportive and their main contention was since they have booked halls for marriage and that they wont get refund of the amount, I have to adjust and cajole her and go ahead in marriage.

Having written these, my earnest request to all prospective grooms of 45 years and above and their parents is not to fall under the trap of these type of unscrupulous habitual offenders ladies rather than their sons remaining bachelors for the rest of lives.

I request you once again to publish the said information.

Regards

PPP

 

[sangom]

saw this in another brahmin forum. there was a plea to circulate this. not sure if it is absurd funny sad ridiculous or unbelievable. take your pick.

i have only removed the names mentioned there..

Dear NNNNNNNN
Namaskarams.
Please publish this information on live case.. This is being written to ensure that other girls don't follow suit as well as boys of Brahmin families don't fall into trap of these type of unscrupulous habitual offenders.
---------------------------
I recently came across a horoscope of a girl aged 46 years a legal professional VVVVVV based out of Malleswaram/Kumarapark Bangalore Karnataka looking for marriage. In the initial stages of discussion, it was very cordial and her requests were three fold one,the groom should move to her place as she has to take care of her mother and periamma; second she has plans of working after marriage and third,she is bit ultra modern and not traditionalist.

During the engagement itself, we had informed her elders that we are not in for dowry/other articles to be given by them and that we are looking for a girl who can be of affection at our end. We didn't go in with their financial position/seek dowry/gold etc.

Having agreed to all these, I agreed for the proposal and after informal engagement last month, things started to change in the sense that her main demands went multifold.
1.Should relocate/get a job before marriage without any fail;Should bring a revenue of Rs.1.50 lakhs per month for lavish spending.
2.Entire things present in my residence need to be sold/disposed and new ones to be in place
3.Existing house in Cochin where I stay need to be sold and new brought there in Bangalore
4.Should give her an excellent gold chain inplace of taali charadu during marriage
5.Should give her absolute freedom with no room for questioning.
6.Should go to fitness gymn
7.Should listen to her only and oblige by what she says.
8.Should keep her happy always.
9.Should work to give her a child immly.
10.My existing house has to be renovated to her desires.
11.My relatives shouldn't visit at all.
12. She wont bring any funds at all.
13.Should be loyal to her only

The threatening part is if any of these conditions are not met, she would go in for divorce /commit suicide either before or after marriage.

Her dialogues at any point of time was she believed in timelines,commitments,discipline,well mannered etc. on the contrary its the other way.

She started shooting messages/telecalls on and off for status

Initially, I tried to convince her for the past 70 days but post that, I felt that if this is the type of issue pre-marriage,it will be difficult to survive post marriage.There were long mails/smses in odd hours of night/day time. I informed her that I wont be able to fulfill all her desires to the tune of 100% and on the job factor,its not easy to get it on one shot. Fedup with all these issues, I had shared the long mails with demands to her paternal uncle (as her father is no more) and then came the real shot, parting ways on account of mail shared with her mail and the funniest aspect was she had called my uncle and auntie and informed this while there is no call from her till now. I also understand from others in her family now that she is a habitual offender and that such type of incidents to the extent of 20% alliance cropped up earlier and finally got dropped by her.

Her elders are also not supportive and their main contention was since they have booked halls for marriage and that they wont get refund of the amount, I have to adjust and cajole her and go ahead in marriage.

Having written these, my earnest request to all prospective grooms of 45 years and above and their parents is not to fall under the trap of these type of unscrupulous habitual offenders ladies rather than their sons remaining bachelors for the rest of lives.

I request you once again to publish the said information.

Regards

PPP

My dear Kunjuppu,

I presume that this complainant had an "escape route" and that is why he could survive and write this. But in actual practice, most Tabra marriages sail along this route only, and, the boys and their parents are compelled to put up with all these and much more perhaps. But nobody even whispers anything. I am of the view that today's marriages are all, along this kind of format only. But people try to "cover all these warts or dents" and try their best to pretend and say "my DIL is different; she is soooooooooooooooo good etc., etc."

Just as people do not find any fault with their gods, dead people, etc., people today do not, as a rule, find any fault with their dils !

Just as finding fault with god will invite "deiva kOpam", finding fault with dil will definitely invite "divorce SApam"!!

 

[Raji Ram]

Is this known as ultimate women's lib?? eace:

 

[renuka]

Is this known as ultimate women's lib?? eace:

Dear RR ji,


As doctors today we play defensive medicine at times to safe guard ourselves from some types of patients who might sue us of anything goes wrong.

So basically it is becos we can't trust patients anymore that we resort to playing defensive.

Ok now when I see this long long list given by this woman for marriage..I feel that the Indian woman has lost faith in the institution of marriage and is highly insecure of her well being..so if we put 2 and 2 together it does seem like the Indian male had committed "crimes" of marriage in the past that has scared the Indian woman for generations and this list of demands we see is just her deeper fears.

So in a way I feel sad for this lady..she has deep seated fear..hope she meets a nice man who will love her and make her feel secure.

Someone should tell her that if she should learn to love and live too cos demands made due to fear and insecurity can F up a marriage and even make her lose her chance to meet a nice man.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear RR ji,


As doctors today we play defensive medicine at times to safe guard ourselves from some types of patients who might sue us of anything goes wrong.

So basically it is becos we can't trust patients anymore that we resort to playing defensive.

Ok now when I see this long long list given by this woman for marriage..I feel that the Indian woman has lost faith in the institution of marriage and is highly insecure of her well being..so if we put 2 and 2 together it does seem like the Indian male had committed "crimes" of marriage in the past that has scared the Indian woman for generations and this list of demands we see is just her deeper fears.

So in a way I feel sad for this lady..she has deep seated fear..hope she meets a nice man who will love her and make her feel secure.

Someone should tell her that if she should learn to love and live too cos demands made due to fear and insecurity can F up a marriage and even make her lose her chance to meet a nice man.

Renuka,

You said it. I appreciate the balancing message you have recorded. Even if the dil had added one more condition-- that the Son should give her a reassuring kiss before everyone in the family, every day, without fail, before going to office,-- I would understand the mind from which that kind of a demand comes, the insecurity that it is suffering from, the background from which it comes and finally the helplessness that it indicates. Like a chicken left in the middle of a desert-எத்திசையும் உழன்றோடி இளைத்து விழும் காகம் போல். What is the son doing? If he can not understand this simple psychology and reassure her, he is not fit for the marriage yet.

 

[vgane]

I remember many a wedding where the bridegroom's mother will come and ask for a bigger silver plate at the last moment or the bride groom's chitthi (aunt) will come and threaten that Diratchi (I night) function cannot happen without a new scooter etc..

The world has come full circle

Now the reverse discrimination has started..

Bridegrooms, beware!

 

[v arun kumar]

Must be an aberration, must we put so much importance to single incident of erratic behaviour ?

 

[Naina_Marbus]

Must be an aberration, must we put so much importance to single incident of erratic behaviour ?

Neither an aberration, nor a single incident of erratic behaviour. There is a spectrum of such demands, with one or more of the 13 items listed in OP. Similar things have happened in my neighbourhood, in my circle of associates and friends, and in my own efforts to find a bride for my son.

It all starts as a drip. It does not take long to become a flood.

 

[Naina_Marbus]

....The world has come full circle

Now the reverse discrimination has started..

Bridegrooms, beware!

Expect Hindu talibans soon?

 

[sarang]

Or just story teller's delight. Many magazines carry similar stories 'anbulla akkavukku etc.) All types of aberrations one can think of and all types desires and preferred relationships are posted by writers 'peyar solla virumbada abhagyavati' 'un anbu tambi'. I am sure this incident belongs to to a similar genre.

Must be an aberration, must we put so much importance to single incident of erratic behaviour ?

 

[Naina_Marbus]

Or just story teller's delight. Many magazines carry similar stories 'anbulla akkavukku etc.) All types of aberrations one can think of and all types desires and preferred relationships are posted by writers 'peyar solla virumbada abhagyavati' 'un anbu tambi'. I am sure this incident belongs to to a similar genre.

You may be right for all we know. However, your post#10 is at least 20 minutes later than my post #8 above. I should hope you read my post as well.
Let us not bury our head in the sand and pretend that all is well.

 

[Nara]

Or just story teller's delight. Many magazines carry similar stories 'anbulla akkavukku etc.) All types of aberrations one can think of and all types desires and preferred relationships are posted by writers 'peyar solla virumbada abhagyavati' 'un anbu tambi'. I am sure this incident belongs to to a similar genre.

The stars must be aligned or this must be the dawning of the age of aquarius, because, I am in agreement with my tireless and implacable adversary my dear brother sarang. The OP reads like a sob story from a jilted suitor. Who in their right mind will be bothered by a middle aged woman (or man if the shoe was on the other foot) making these demands? If this account has a grain of truth to it, then there surely is another side to it.

Unless this is a parody of the kinds of demands that boy's side make without so much as a raised eyebrow from anybody, this is yet another example of the latent misogyny that raises its head on a regular basis.

 

[Nara]

Think Sexism Isn't A Problem Worldwide? Just Check Google

 

[C RAVI]

My dear Kunjuppu,

I presume that this complainant had an "escape route" and that is why he could survive and write this. But in actual practice, most Tabra marriages sail along this route only, and, the boys and their parents are compelled to put up with all these and much more perhaps. But nobody even whispers anything. I am of the view that today's marriages are all, along this kind of format only. But people try to "cover all these warts or dents" and try their best to pretend and say "my DIL is different; she is soooooooooooooooo good etc., etc."

Just as people do not find any fault with their gods, dead people, etc., people today do not, as a rule, find any fault with their dils !

Just as finding fault with god will invite "deiva kOpam", finding fault with dil will definitely invite "divorce SApam"!!

You said it!!

 

[C RAVI]

Neither an aberration, nor a single incident of erratic behaviour. There is a spectrum of such demands, with one or more of the 13 items listed in OP. Similar things have happened in my neighbourhood, in my circle of associates and friends, and in my own efforts to find a bride for my son.

It all starts as a drip. It does not take long to become a flood.

Very much true!!

 

[kunjuppu]

here is a post in facebook by vaa. manikandan, whose blog i follow. it talks of the gounder community's non-marriageable boys issues. for what it is worth, the problem of lack of girls to marry, appears to be striking the gounders too. ....

இப்பொழுதெல்லாம் ஈரோடு, நாமக்கல், கோயமுத்தூர், திருப்பூர் மாவட்டங்களில் கல்யாணம் ஆகாத ஆடவர்களின் எண்ணிக்கை தாறுமாறாக எகிறிவிட்டது. நாற்பது வயதிலும் தனியாகப் படுத்து பாயை பிறாண்டிக் கொண்டிருக்கும் கவுண்டப் பையன்களைக் கணக்கெடுத்தால் ஒரு தனி சாதிப்பிரிவே உருவாக்கலாம். அத்தனை பேச்சிலர்கள். கடந்த இருபது முப்பது வருடங்களாக கவுண்டர் சமுதாயத்தில் பெண்களின் எண்ணிக்கை வெகுவாக குறைந்துவிட்டது. குறையாமல் என்ன செய்யும்? திருமணம் ஆனவுடன் முதல் குழந்தை பையனாக பிறந்துவிட்டால் போதும். ‘ஒன்றே போதும்’ என நரம்பைக் கத்தரித்துக் கொள்கிறார்கள். தப்பித்தவறி முதலில் பெண் குழந்தை பிறந்தால் மட்டுமே அந்தக் குடும்பத்திற்கு பெண் வாரிசு.

இப்படி ஒவ்வொரு குடும்பமும் அளவோடு நிறுத்திக் கொண்டால் முப்பது வருடங்களுக்கு முன்பாக பிறந்த ஆண்களுக்கு எப்படி கல்யாணம் நடக்கும்? அதுவும் பத்தாவது படிக்கும் போது காலில் ஆணி விழுந்துவிட்டது, பன்னிரெண்டாவது பரீட்சை சமயத்தில் அம்மை வந்துவிட்டது என்ற நொண்டிச்சாக்குகளோடு படிப்பை கைவிட்டவர்கள், ரிக் வண்டிக்கு வேலைக்கு போனவர்கள், திருப்பூர் பனியன் கம்பெனிக்கு டிரைவராக போனவர்கள் என்ற வகையறாக்களின் கல்யாணக் கனவெல்லாம் தவிடு பொடிதான்.

இருக்கும் சொற்ப எண்ணிக்கையிலான கவுண்ட பெண்களும் படித்து தொலைத்துவிடுகிறார்கள். இந்தப் பெண்களை பெங்களூரிலும், அமெரிக்காவிலும், சென்னையிலும் கம்யூட்டரைத் துடைத்துக் கொண்டிருக்கும் சாப்ட்வேர்க்காரன் கட்டிக் கொண்டு போய்விடுகிறார்கள். மிச்சம் மீதி இருக்கும் பெண்களை இருபது ஏக்கர் தோட்டக்காரன், சொந்தமாக சுல்சர் தறி வைத்திருப்பவன் என்று பணக்காரப் பையன்கள் கட்டிக் கொள்கிறார்கள்.

அப்படியானால் திருமணம் ஆகாத பையன்கள்? உள்ளூரிலேயே வேற்றுச் சாதிப் பெண்களைத் திருமணம் செய்து கொள்ளலாம் என்றால் வறட்டு சாதிக் கவுரவம் தடுக்கிறது. அதற்காக திருமணம் செய்யாமலும் இருக்க முடியாது, தர்மபுரிப் பக்கத்திலோ அல்லது கேரளாப்பக்கத்திலோ ‘கிடைப்பது கிடைக்கட்டும்’ என்று தாலியைக் கட்டிக் கூட்டி வருகிறார்கள். மற்றவர்கள் கேட்டால் ‘கவுண்டபுள்ளதான். எப்பவோ அங்கே போய் செட்டில் ஆகிட்டாங்க’ என்று சொல்லிக் கொள்ளலாம். சிலர் விவாகரத்தான பெண்கள், கணவனை இழந்தவர்களை திருமணம் செய்து கொள்கிறார்கள்.

அப்படியும் திருமணம் நடைபெறாத ஆண்கள் அனுபவிக்கும் சித்ரவதை மிகக் குரூரமானது. திருமணம் ஆகாவிட்டால் பாலியல் இன்பம் என்பதே கிடைக்காது என்ற வறட்டு சமூகத்தில் முப்பத்தைந்தைத் தாண்டியும் தண்டுவனாக சுற்றுவது என்பதை விடக் கொடுமை வேறொன்றும் கிடையாது.

டிவியைத் திறந்தாள் எவளாவது தொப்புளைக் காட்டுகிறாள்; சினிமாவுக்கு போனால் அங்கு ஒருத்தி மாராப்பை விலக்குகிறாள்; போஸ்டரை பார்த்தால் முக்கால்வாசி காட்டுகிறாள்; அந்த ஆடவனைத் தூண்டிவிட திரும்பிய பக்கமெல்லாம் தயாராக இருக்கிறார்கள். உணர்ச்சி கொந்தளிக்கிறது. ஆனால் அவன் திருமணம் செய்து கொள்ளத்தான் வழியில்லை. என்னதான் செய்வான் அவன்?

மாரிமுத்து அப்படியொருவன். வீட்டிற்கு ஒரே பையன். திருச்செங்கோட்டு பக்கம் தோட்டங்காடு எல்லாம் இருக்கிறது- ஆனால் திருமணம்தான் ஆகவில்லை. வருகிற பெண்களை எல்லாம் கூட இருப்பவர்களும், சொந்தக்காரர்களும் தட்டிக் கழித்துவிடுகிறார்கள். ஒரு பெண்ணை அம்மா நிராகரிக்கிறாள்; இன்னொரு முறை இவனது உடை சரியில்லை என்று பெண் வீட்டார் இவனை வேண்டாம் என்று சொல்லிவிடுகிறார்கள்; இன்னொரு முறை மாரிமுத்துவின் அப்பா தடை போடுகிறார். இப்படியே வயது முப்பதைத் தாண்டியாகிவிட்டது.

இடையில் ஒரு போயர் இனப்பெண்ணை காதலிக்க முயற்சிக்கிறான். அதுவும் வெற்றியடையவில்லை. பெண்கள் சகவாசமே இல்லாமல் காய்ந்து கிடக்கிறான். மாரிமுத்துவுக்கு பெண் வாடையே இல்லை என்று சொல்ல முடியாது. விடலைப் பருவத்தில் ஒரு பெண்ணோடு உதடு பதித்திருக்கிறான். அதோடு சரி. ‘க்ளைமேக்ஸ்’ எதுவும் நடக்கவில்லை. அந்த ஞாபகம் வேறு அடிக்கடி வந்து மனுஷனுக்குள் பற்ற வைத்துவிடுகிறது.

இந்தச் சங்கடங்களை அடிப்படையாக வைத்து ஒரு சுவாரசியமான நாவலை சமீபத்தில் வாசிக்க முடிந்தது.

நாவலின் பெயர் - கங்கணம். கொங்கு நாட்டில் திருமணத்தின் போதோ அல்லது திருவிழாவின் போதோ கையில் மஞ்சளை நூலில் கோர்த்து கையில் கட்டிவிடுவார்கள். அதைத்தான் கங்கணம் என்பார்கள். காரியம் முடியும் வரைக்கும் அதை அவிழ்க்க மாட்டார்கள். யாராவது ஒரு வேலையை முடித்தே தீருவது என்று திரிந்தால் ‘அவன் கங்கணம் கட்டிட்டு திரியறான்’என்பார்கள். மாரிமுத்து ஆறுமாதத்திற்குள் திருமணம் செய்து கொள்வது என்று வேட்டை ஆடுவதைப் போலத் திரிகிறான். அதனால் இந்த நாவலுக்கு ‘கங்கணம்’ என்று பெயர்.

திருமணம் ஆகாத ஒரு கவுண்டப் பையன் என்பதுதான் நாவலின் முடிச்சு என்றாலு இதில் கொங்கு நாட்டின் சடங்குகள், திருமண முறை, ஒரு ஆணின் பாலியல் ஏக்கம், திருமணம் ஆகாத அவன் மீது சமூகம் கொடுக்கும் அழுத்தம், அவனுக்கு ஆதரவாக களமிறங்கும் ஒரு தாத்தா, தாழ்த்தப்பட்ட இனத்தைச் சார்ந்த பால்ய நண்பன், சித்தப்பா பையன் என அத்தனையும் சேர்த்து வளைத்து வளைத்து எழுதியிருக்கிறார் பெருமாள் முருகன்.

இதை வெறும் காமத்தின் சித்தரிப்பு என்று சொல்லிவிட முடியாது. கவுண்டர்களின் வாழ்க்கை முறை, அவர்களின் சமூக அமைப்பு, மனவோட்டங்கள், சடங்குகள், பேச்சுவார்த்தை என இதைவிடத் துல்லியமாக பதிவு செய்த புத்தகம் என்று வேறு எதுவும் ஞாபகத்தில் வரவில்லை.

பங்காளித் தகராறினால் தலைமுறை தாண்டியும் விவசாயம் செய்யாமல் கிடக்கும் காடு அதைப் பிரிப்பதற்காக நடைபெறும் பேச்சுவார்த்தைகள், திருச்செங்கோட்டைச் சுற்றியிருக்கும் கோவில்கள், மாரிமுத்துவின் பாட்டி, பண்ணையாள் குப்பன் அவரது மகன், மாரிமுத்துவின் அத்தை மருமகள் என ஒவ்வொரு பாத்திரமும், காட்சியும் மனதுக்குள் ஆழமாக பதிந்து விடுகின்றன.

இந்த நாவலைப் பற்றி மிக விரிவாக எழுதலாம்- எழுதுவது மட்டுமில்லை, பி.ஹெச்.டி கூட செய்யலாம். அத்தனை விரிவான நாவல் இது. நாவல் சற்று பெரியதுதான் - நானூற்று சொச்சம் பக்கங்கள். ஆனால் மிக வேகமாக வாசித்துவிட முடியும். நாவலின் நடை அப்படி. மிக இயல்பான மொழியில், எதார்த்தமாக, நேர்-கோட்டில் நகரும் இந்த நாவலை மிக வேகமாக முடித்துவிட்டேன். நாவல் வாசிப்பின்பத்தைக் கொடுத்தாலும் வாசித்து முடித்தவுடன் பள்ளியில் உடன் படித்த, சிறுவயதில் கூடவே சுற்றிய, இன்னமும் திருமணம் ஆகாமல் திரியும் பால்ய நண்பர்களின் ஒவ்வொரு முகமும் சில வினாடிகள் நினைவில் வந்து போயின. இந்த அத்தனை நண்பர்களின் வேதனைகளையும், அவஸ்தைகளையும் மாரிமுத்து பிரதிபலிக்கிறான் -மிகத் துல்லியமாகவும், அதே சமயத்தில் நம் மனதில் மிகப் பெரிய வெற்றிடத்தை உருவாக்கிவிடும் வகையிலும்.

வா.மணிகண்டன்
திருமணம் ஆகாதவனின் அவஸ்தைகள்

 

[Naina_Marbus]

.... this is yet another example of the latent misogyny that raises its head on a regular basis.

Misogyny has been defined as the hatred or dislike of women. Misogyny has been characterised as a prominent feature of the mythologies of the ancient world as well as of various religions. In addition, many influential philosophers have been described as misogynistic. Feminists claim that misogyny is both a cause andresult of patriarchal social structures.
Camille AnnaPaglia is an American teacher and social critic, a self-described dissident feminist, and a professor at the University of the Arts in Philadelphia,Pennsylvania. She argues that the present use and interpretation of the term misogyny is Marxist-inspired , and is seriously flawed. She argues that a close reading of history shows that men do not hate women but fear them.

 

[C RAVI]

Misogyny has been defined as the hatred or dislike of women. Misogyny has been characterised as a prominent feature of the mythologies of the ancient world as well as of various religions. In addition, many influential philosophers have been described as misogynistic. Feminists claim that misogyny is both a cause andresult of patriarchal social structures.
Camille AnnaPaglia is an American teacher and social critic, a self-described dissident feminist, and a professor at the University of the Arts in Philadelphia,Pennsylvania. She argues that the present use and interpretation of the term misogyny is Marxist-inspired , and is seriously flawed. She argues that a close reading of history shows that men do not hate women but fear them.

As the usage of the term - "Misogyny" is flawed, so is the usage of the term - "Misandrist" (one who hates men), IMO.

Male and female species naturally can not hate each other. It's only the fear of the other, that makes them keep the distance And Only those people keep the distance who had some one-to-one bitter experiences in their life and have formed a generalized opinion, erroneously.

If girls of today, in the marriage market, hold on to their unreasonable demands bluntly & endlessly, unmindful of its repercussions on their own self, I fail to understand what sense would it make to those men who boast themselves of thinking, voicing and working towards protecting the interests of women.

If a fair game play is advocated in any given circumstances, without any bias and prejudice between Men and Women and such a game is justified, I fail to understand why Women should be spared from losing some of her preferences and guys are expected to forgo their each and every preferences altogether, for a deal to get finalized?

Isn't a give & take; lose & win; accept & adjust etc..etc be a mutually & willingly agreeable factors for both men and women who wish to join hands as spouse, intending to live together ever after?

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Kunjuppu Sir,

Since the 'orE paiyyan' concept in families has reduced the number of girls in the society (not only tambrams), girls have started

'demanding'! If it happens to be 'orE poNNu' of the family, the conditions laid or more. The upper hand of boys' parents has slowly

shifted to the girls' parents and it is the truth.

 

[Raji Ram]

........... Isn't a give & take; lose & win; accept & adjust etc..etc be a mutually & willingly agreeable factors for both men and women who wish to join hands as spouse, intending to live together ever after?

Dear Ravi,

In olden days it was like this.

Husband gives salary - wife takes; Husband sometimes gives a slap - wife takes.

Husband loses his job - wife wins some mean jobs to raise her family!

Accept the husband as he is - 'kallAnAlum kaNavan; pullAnAlum purushan!' and always the wife had to adjust!

Now times have changed!! Yet, I enjoyed this cartoon:

 

[Nara]

....... Since the 'orE paiyyan' concept in families has reduced the number of girls in the society (not only tambrams),

Dear Mrs.RR, if the claim is that couples will stop making babies once they have a boy, even if they get one in their first successful attempt, then, mathematically, the ratio of boys to girls will be even. The only way the ratio can get uneven is if there is unspeakable intervention like selective termination based on ultrasound, or worse.

regards

 

[Nara]

She argues that [/COLOR]a close reading of history shows that men do not hate women but fear them.

well, you can't just assert this, if this POV is to be taken seriously, you need to make a rational argument, something more than she said so. But then, I don't understand why harboring fear of "them" i.e. women, is any more rational than hatred of "them". Hatred is a cousin of fear, if not immediate sibling...

 

[vgane]

[/COLOR] Dear Mrs.RR, if the claim is that couples will stop making babies once they have a boy, even if they get one in their first successful attempt, then, mathematically, the ratio of boys to girls will be even. The only way the ratio can get uneven is if there is unspeakable intervention like selective termination based on ultrasound, or worse.

regards

In most Tambrahm cases it is one child be it male or female and then the procreation stops

 

[sangom]

well, you can't just assert this, if this POV is to be taken seriously, you need to make a rational argument, something more than she said so. But then, I don't understand why harboring fear of "them" i.e. women, is any more rational than hatred of "them". Hatred is a cousin of fear, if not immediate sibling...

I think it is neither fear nor hatred of men which causes girls to put so many conditions of eligibility for boys, in present times. It is more because girls today - especially tabra girls - grow up witnessing and hearing from many sources, the male superiority incidents from their mothers, Chithis and various other womenfolk in the family circle of their own and also of their friends, and this induces in many girls a kind of "revenge mentality". It means just that they, the tabra girls have today the upper hand over the prospective boys and that they will show it in their approach to marriage and also in their family life.

The earlier norm - as Shri Kunjuppu has written here from his own relatives' lives - even a useless husband will feel that it is his birthright to slouch in an 'easy chair' and expect his wife to serve him like a servant. But today, the girls implement the opposite; I am seeing the young husbands especially from abroad, patiently 'cleaning' their kids, removing the diapers and disposing those diapers, etc., and the wives looking after some of their own work. The roles have completely got reversed, that is but the males being the weaker of the two genders, I am also finding men getting irretrievably sick and unable to do justice to both home-management and office work. May be the boys of tomorrow should be content to be simple house husbands and not earning members controlling the households, like in the olden days. At best they may try to make some nominal income by doing income-earning activities at home.

But, one peculiar factor is that even some of the most ardent pro-woman men whom I know, cannot accept the "house-husband" concept. Hence, it may be slow for our tabra community to stop sending their sons to Engg. or medical and be content to give the sons a routine degree only and look upon the daughters as the agents who will continue the lineage or gotra!! Our Dharmasastras will become useless in the future and a boy will change his gotra to his wife's. Any takers for this please?

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Mrs.RR, if the claim is that couples will stop making babies once they have a boy, even if they get one in their first successful attempt, then, mathematically, the ratio of boys to girls will be even. .....

Not necessary, Prof Sir!

Even though some parents have two daughters, there is definite shortage of brahmin girls, apparently.
The main reason for this might be because many girls select their partners from communities other than brahmins! :fish2: