Caveats...for venditors and emptors!! eh!!

[auh]

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I think it is neither fear nor hatred of men which causes girls to put so many conditions of eligibility for boys, in present times. It is more because girls today - especially tabra girls - grow up witnessing and hearing from many sources, the male superiority incidents from their mothers, Chithis and various other womenfolk in the family circle of their own and also of their friends, and this induces in many girls a kind of "revenge mentality". It means just that they, the tabra girls have today the upper hand over the prospective boys and that they will show it in their approach to marriage and also in their family life.

I think there is no revenge mentality of the tabra womenfolk that reflects in their marriage/family life. I mean, girls just dont think that they have to henpeck their hubbies just because many sources indicate male superiority. It is financial emancipation, the availability of choices, and the desire to be independent without lowering their self-esteem that has lifted the mindset of women today.

...But today, the girls implement the opposite; I am seeing the young husbands especially from abroad, patiently 'cleaning' their kids, removing the diapers and disposing those diapers, etc., and the wives looking after some of their own work. The roles have completely got reversed, that is but the males being the weaker of the two genders, I am also finding men getting irretrievably sick and unable to do justice to both home-management and office work. May be the boys of tomorrow should be content to be simple house husbands and not earning members controlling the households, like in the olden days. At best they may try to make some nominal income by doing income-earning activities at home.

But, one peculiar factor is that even some of the most ardent pro-woman men whom I know, cannot accept the "house-husband" concept. Hence, it may be slow for our tabra community to stop sending their sons to Engg. or medical and be content to give the sons a routine degree only and look upon the daughters as the agents who will continue the lineage or gotra!! Our Dharmasastras will become useless in the future and a boy will change his gotra to his wife's. Any takers for this please?

Sir, you have probably perceived what is a willingness from the husband, as an act of agression from the wife. There is awareness now of the conditions of a woman after childbirth - Dr. Renuka had mentioned in some other post about postpartum depression. I would say that a man is more sensitive to his spouse than the average male of yesteryears. As more and more males start empathizing with thier better half, they would learn to manage their home well. I find it strange that you, as a declared agnostic and a non believer in traditions, sound sarcastic/condescending about boys not being earning members. What is wrong about a boy managing domestic affairs while his spouse earns? Seems like you believe in "Udyogam Purushalakshanam" without any underlying logic?

Regards,

 

[C RAVI]

There is lot of blah... blah... here about girl's revenge mentality, girls being scared of tambram men hearing about them from their Amma, chiththi, cousin sisters etc..etc.. Tambram men are all male chauvinist, dominating, cruel, Tambram men are all non supportive, are all hypocrite, are all mean minded blah..blah...blah...blah....

Women being independent, assertive and holding on one's self esteem and self dignity does not demand one to be arrogant, demanding everything, commanding on everything, ordering everything etc..etc..

The OP and the following post by Shri.Naina_Marbus, revealing the truth, has been white washed by such irrelevant & baseless reasoning to conceal the "craziest mentality" of today's tambram girls.

Today's tambram girls need everything as per their whims and fancy. They could make up their mind to consider a guy for marriage only if he could offer her a "complete package". These girl's best deal package should not have any exclusions, any exceptions and any compromises..Everything should be intact as the "best deal" where the girl need not to make any tiniest compromises/adjustments.

 

[renuka]

Tambram men are all male chauvinist, dominating, cruel, Tambram men are all non supportive, are all hypocrite, are all mean minded

Introspection??LOL

 

[C RAVI]

Introspection??LOL

Introspection about the stupidity of many of today's Tambram girls who have wrong attitude, opinions and perceptions about tambram guys, thinking they are the smartest folks on this Earth. This is what been falsely projected by some of the feminists here as the reasons behind today's marriage market scenario, where tambram girls are out of their mind in formulating their demands as per their whims and fancy.

But, the truth is, the reason behind such demand and command are only to ensure that they fulfill everything to their heart content through a best deal package, expecting guys to lose everything and surrender (as if the need of a spouse from the same community is only for the guys..LOL!!!)

 

[renuka]

(as if the need of a spouse from the same community is only for the guys..LOL!!!)

So what is stopping you from conquering different pastures??LOL

 

[renuka]

expecting guys to lose everything and surrender

Well isn't the game of love all about this..lose everything and total surrender?

Ravi it is nice to read what you write..full of emotions!LOL

 

[sangom]

I think there is no revenge mentality of the tabra womenfolk that reflects in their marriage/family life. I mean, girls just dont think that they have to henpeck their hubbies just because many sources indicate male superiority. It is financial emancipation, the availability of choices, and the desire to be independent without lowering their self-esteem that has lifted the mindset of women today.
Sir, you have probably perceived what is a willingness from the husband, as an act of agression from the wife. There is awareness now of the conditions of a woman after childbirth - Dr. Renuka had mentioned in some other post about postpartum depression. I would say that a man is more sensitive to his spouse than the average male of yesteryears. As more and more males start empathizing with thier better half, they would learn to manage their home well. I find it strange that you, as a declared agnostic and a non believer in traditions, sound sarcastic/condescending about boys not being earning members. What is wrong about a boy managing domestic affairs while his spouse earns? Seems like you believe in "Udyogam Purushalakshanam" without any underlying logic?

Regards,

Shri auh,

Since I was not familiar with postpartum depression, I googled and this is what the wikipedia page (Postpartum depression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) says:

"Postpartum depression (PPD), also called postnatal depression, is a type of clinical depression which can affect women, and less frequently men, typically after childbirth. Studies report prevalence rates among women from 5% to 25%, but methodological differences among the studies make the actual prevalence rate unclear. Among men, in particular new fathers, the incidence of postpartum depression has been estimated to be between 1% and 25.5%.[SUP][1][/SUP] Symptoms include sadness, fatigue, changes in sleeping and eating patterns, reduced libido, crying episodes, anxiety, and irritability. Although a number of risk factors have been identified, the causes of PPD are not well understood."

"Postpartum depression usually begins in the first few months after childbirth. In Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition it is defined as depression with onset within 4 weeks after childbirth. Postpartum depression can also affect women who have suffered a miscarriage.[SUP][7][/SUP] It usually begins around two weeks after childbirth.[SUP][8][/SUP] It may last up to several months or even a year."
[SUP] [/SUP]
So, you see this PPD is for both father & mother. Then why the mother's case alone is being highlighted?

I have lived in an era when we did not hear, nor did we see women suffering from any PPD. But if today's medical knowledge finds PPD in both parents, should not the father's PPD also be given equal importance?

 

[C RAVI]

So what is stopping you from conquering different pastures??LOL

First ask this question to those Tambram girls at their age of 30-35+; 35-40+ who are continuing to demand the same ridiculously to achieve the best deal package "from a Brahmin Guy."

A brahmin guy without demands can conquer from different pastures, if he is willing to lose his tradition/culture. So, better ask this question to most of those tambram girls who neither want to capture the best deal package from different pastures nor want to be reasonable in their expectations from the Brahmin guys, with some adjustments & compromises from her side too. But, still waiting as a single, at their older age like fools, expecting to catch a great deal package out of their craziness for - money, material, power to command, rights to demand anything and leadership in everything.

LOL!!

 

[sangom]

There is lot of blah... blah... here about girl's revenge mentality, girls being scared of tambram men hearing about them from their Amma, chiththi, cousin sisters etc..etc.. Tambram men are all male chauvinist, dominating, cruel, Tambram men are all non supportive, are all hypocrite, are all mean minded blah..blah...blah...blah....

Women being independent, assertive and holding on one's self esteem and self dignity does not demand one to be arrogant, demanding everything, commanding on everything, ordering everything etc..etc..

The OP and the following post by Shri.Naina_Marbus, revealing the truth, has been white washed by such irrelevant & baseless reasoning to conceal the "craziest mentality" of today's tambram girls.

Today's tambram girls need everything as per their whims and fancy. They could make up their mind to consider a guy for marriage only if he could offer her a "complete package". These girl's best deal package should not have any exclusions, any exceptions and any compromises..Everything should be intact as the "best deal" where the girl need not to make any tiniest compromises/adjustments.

Shri Ravi,

I can understand why you get so emotionally worked up. But let us put that aside and consider how males in general in the past behaved towards wife, marriage, females as a group, etc. The female was a kind of property - equatable to a milch cow during her (the woman's child-bearing years). This was true of the tabra community also. Today's educated girls witness, still, some similar households around them; plus the other womenfolk also tell them how life was for a newly married girl during their younger days.

I have heard, even as a male, many such anecdotes from many women whom I trust - like my mother, maternal grandmother, my aunt-cum-mother-in-law and some others too. Possibly you haven't for whatever reasons. Once you get married perhaps your future wife herself may confide some of these, to you. Till then please don't hasten to pronounce judgment and try to assess the world around you - both in the gulf and in India - with a bit more awareness instead of being opinionated.

You probably want to propound a theory that all of a sudden, girls have become arrogant, demanding everything, commanding on everything, ordering everything etc..etc., for no apparent reason. I am sure girls (and women) are much shrewder and enigmatic than any ordinary male intellect can fathom

 

[C RAVI]

Shri Ravi,

I can understand why you get so emotionally worked up.

I know this is the easy way out for you and few others to devalue my post by making such sweeping statement.

Are you a Telepathy Expert to know how I am worked up? LOL!!

 

[sravna]

I have a belief a society that becomes individual centric will sooner or later correct itself as it is ultimately happiness that is important for everyone and happiness can sustain only when relationships are given importance.

Talking about the ways of the brahmin girls, I think brahmin girls cannot hope to exist in a more harmonious relationship than with the brahmin boys and even if this has not been realized by now, it will be sooner. So I think in the long run there is no need to worry about the attitude of the brahmin girls which is bound to reverse if the community thinks on it own and maintains its identity.

 

[C RAVI]

Shri Ravi,

.......consider how males in general in the past behaved towards wife, marriage, females as a group, etc. The female was a kind of property - equatable to a milch cow during her (the woman's child-bearing years). This was true of the tabra community also. Today's educated girls witness, still, some similar households around them; plus the other womenfolk also tell them how life was for a newly married girl during their younger days.

This is an another white wash to justify the ridiculous and arrogant demands of today's Brahmin girls in the marriage market.

I have heard, even as a male, many such anecdotes from many women whom I trust - like my mother, maternal grandmother, my aunt-cum-mother-in-law and some others too. Possibly you haven't for whatever reasons. Once you get married perhaps your future wife herself may confide some of these, to you. Till then please don't hasten to pronounce judgment and try to assess the world around you - both in the gulf and in India - with a bit more awareness instead of being opinionated.

Today's educated and independent girls who are in their right mind know where they stand, what their strength, the level of their confidence, level of their independency, level of their capabilities etc..etc. With their right mind minus craziness and arrogance they can well chose to play a fair game with all their reasonable expectations and willingness to adjust and compromised from their end too.

I have heard all that you have heard from women folks of your family. Those were the days when women were either innocent without knowing what is what OR could not protest to safe guard their interest. Such was the social structure.

Feminist like you are joining hands with today's tambram girls to justify their unreasonable demands and commands by citing olden days inequalities and atrocities by men.

Its a shame on Brahmin Society!!

You probably want to propound a theory that all of a sudden, girls have become

arrogant, demanding everything, commanding on everything, ordering everything etc..etc., for no apparent reason. I am sure girls (and women) are much shrewder and enigmatic than any ordinary male intellect can fathom

My claim of tambram girls being - arrogant, demanding everything, commanding on everything, ordering everything etc..etc., was about the girls in the marriage market who all yet to find a tambram guy, get married and live a married life to start fulfilling all that they are intended in these lines.


Women empowerment has certainly evolved over time. Now it's taking a different twist, digging grave for the whole society including for women themselves.

 

[auh]

...
So, you see this PPD is for both father & mother. Then why the mother's case alone is being highlighted?

I have lived in an era when we did not hear, nor did we see women suffering from any PPD. But if today's medical knowledge finds PPD in both parents, should not the father's PPD also be given equal importance?

Sir,

Males already demand attention, with or without PPD... that is the societal norm in India and hence I did not feel the need to highlight the plight of the father. Moreover, my sentence was to point out, to your remark that "changing diapers and looking after household affairs" was not as a result of female dominance...

 

[auh]

This is an another white wash to justify the ridiculous and arrogant demands of today's Brahmin girls in the marriage market.





Today's educated and independent girls who are in their right mind know where they stand, what their strength, the level of their confidence, level of their independency, level of their capabilities etc..etc. With their right mind minus craziness and arrogance they can well chose to play a fair game with all their reasonable expectations and willingness to adjust and compromised from their end too.

I have heard all that you have heard from women folks of your family. Those were the days when women were either innocent without knowing what is what OR could not protest to safe guard their interest. Such was the social structure.

Feminist like you are joining hands with today's tambram girls to justify their unreasonable demands and commands by citing olden days inequalities and atrocities by men.

Its a shame on Brahmin Society!!





My claim of tambram girls being - arrogant, demanding everything, commanding on everything, ordering everything etc..etc., was about the girls in the marriage market who all yet to find a tambram guy, get married and live a married life to start fulfilling all that they are intended in these lines.


Women empowerment has certainly evolved over time. Now it's taking a different twist, digging grave for the whole society including for women themselves.

You are all over the place when the talk comes up regarding the demands/expectations of the brahmin girl. Simply by posting in forums do you think that girls, en masse, would change their mind? Who knows what made them say what they say?

Let me ask you something - tomorrow should a brahmin girl who marries you wants you to sport a tuft and go back to the olden brahminical ways of living by doing unchavrithti since that is good for the welfare of the brahmin society, will you do it?

 

[vgane]

One change in social indicator which is cause of most marriage tension between the couple is treating the salary of wife as husbands own salary...It is better to decide the financial matters jointly by both husband and wife before matters turn on its head...If husband or in laws take some unilateral decision then they have to face the consequences life long

In many a case the father of the girl might have taken some loan for which girl may have paid the loan EMI, before marriage..The girl may want that arrangement to continue for some more time, even after marriage...In case husband does not agree or does not understand the dynamics then he may have to bear the wrath of his wife at a latter stage...So it is better these issues are also clarified or settled at the earliest

 

[C RAVI]

One change in social indicator which is cause of most marriage tension between the couple is treating the salary of wife as husbands own salary...It is better to decide the financial matters jointly by both husband and wife before matters turn on its head...If husband or in laws take some unilateral decision then they have to face the consequences life long

In many a case the father of the girl might have taken some loan for which girl may have paid the loan EMI, before marriage..The girl may want that arrangement to continue for some more time, even after marriage...In case husband does not agree or does not understand the dynamics then he may have to bear the wrath of his wife at a latter stage...So it is better these issues are also clarified or settled at the earliest

Yes!! Things should be made clear to avoid any confusions/misunderstanding..

 

[renuka]

I know this is the easy way out for you and few others to devalue my post by making such sweeping statement.

Are you a Telepathy Expert to know how I am worked up? LOL!!

Dear Ravi,

Anyone with minimal grey matter and not hooked to a life support machine and clinically not brain dead can make out emotions when they see it well spelled out.

 

[Vaagmi]

Eight out of ten TB boys are MCPs despite the best education, good job and sober living habits. It is something they pick up as family value from elders (mainly from the father). It is this deeply embedded bad value in the psyche which is challenged today by equally arrogant and immature TB girls who have the new found economic freedom going straight to their head like raw Vodka. Even if the girl and boy earn a monthly income in five figures, the girl has to account for her expenses to her husband while she can not ask similar questions to her husband. Even if the girl is held up in her workplace upto 9 in the night because of demands of workplace, she has to rush back home after finishing work and cook comething to feed the husband who will "patiently/impatiently" wait for it. If the husband has bad habits, which come freely with increasing income, she has to steel herself to receive him coming home on all fours-crawling-and spraying his stomach juices every where in the house. If the in laws stay with her she has to take the darts well aimed and thrown at her relentlessly after taking them all in her workplace once during the day. The one value which like a Lakshman Rekha keeps daunting her is "don't take the extreme step. It destroys every thing and you get nothing". If the child makes a demand that he/she be taken out at the odd hour in the night the mother obliges because she does not want to dispoint him/her, she can still manage to marshall that last bit of energy in her physical system to go out with him/her, she can tell the child to forget every thing he/she saw happening in the house and she can not appear to be failing in her own eyes. And the final denouement comes when the husband comes to the forum here to lecture about the tyranny of his wife or about TB girls. She has just one word for this charade -MCPs.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Ravi,

Anyone with minimal grey matter and not hooked to a life support machine and clinically not brain dead can make out emotions when they see it well spelled out.

Some people with mental weakness, insecurity and nervousness tend to see things differently and fail to understand what is presented by a person as a fact, in line with the subject matter.

Such people for sure need some kind of medical intervention.

 

[C RAVI]

Eight out of ten TB boys are MCPs despite the best education, good job and sober living habits. It is something they pick up as family value from elders (mainly from the father). It is this deeply embedded bad value in the psyche which is challenged today by equally arrogant and immature TB girls who have the new found economic freedom going straight to their head like raw Vodka. Even if the girl and boy earn a monthly income in five figures, the girl has to account for her expenses to her husband while she can not ask similar questions to her husband. Even if the girl is held up in her workplace upto 9 in the night because of demands of workplace, she has to rush back home after finishing work and cook comething to feed the husband who will "patiently/impatiently" wait for it. If the husband has bad habits, which come freely with increasing income, she has to steel herself to receive him coming home on all fours-crawling-and spraying his stomach juices every where in the house. If the in laws stay with her she has to take the darts well aimed and thrown at her relentlessly after taking them all in her workplace once during the day. The one value which like a Lakshman Rekha keeps daunting her is "don't take the extreme step. It destroys every thing and you get nothing". If the child makes a demand that he/she be taken out at the odd hour in the night the mother obliges because she does not want to dispoint him/her, she can still manage to marshall that last bit of energy in her physical system to go out with him/her, she can tell the child to forget every thing he/she saw happening in the house and she can not appear to be failing in her own eyes. And the final denouement comes when the husband comes to the forum here to lecture about the tyranny of his wife or about TB girls. She has just one word for this charade -MCPs.

I am unable to understand what you mean by MCP. Kindly explain.

The family drama that you have presented here as happening in many house hold, is not the uniqueness of Brahmin Families. Such non sense happens in any caste community.

Just by making unreasonable demands, absolute command, powerful orders, total control etc..etc..while seeking a guy for marriage and waiting desperately & indefinitely for the deal to arrive, unmindful of passing years, one can not be rest assured of a marvelous married life.

One has to get out of the craziness to be able to identify what best qualities the person has, that can help the union go a long way successfully and give meaning to a married life.

 

[renuka]

Some people with mental weakness, insecurity and nervousness tend to see things differently and fail to understand what is presented by a person as a fact, in line with the subject matter.

Such people for sure need some kind of medical intervention.

At least those with mental weakness, insecurity and nervousness admit that they have flaws and are willing to seek medical intervention if advocated but on the other hand those who have delusion of grandeur never seek treatment..poor things they do not even know they are unwell!LOL

 

[renuka]

I am unable to understand what you mean by MCP. Kindly explain.

MCP stands for Middle Cerebellar Peduncle.

Its a part of the Cerebellum..the Cerebellum is needed for balance and spatial orientation.

So when the function of the cerebellum is screwed we get a case of total imbalance.

So somewhat like MCP guys!LOL

 

[renuka]

There are 2 types MCPs:



1)The Aggressive Types.

These types make the rules by force and rule their wives with iron fists.

They are often hot tempered and abusive at times.

Most of the while they are not well educated.


2)The Passive Types.

The passive types actually have their own way mapped out all the while but are manipulative and the wife does not realize that she has been controlled all the while.

They are not aggressive or abusive but play psychological games.

Most of the while they are well educated and intelligent.



Moral of the story: Men are alike it is just that their Modus Operandi differs!

 

[auh]

There are 2 types MCPs:
1)The Aggressive Types.
These types make the rules by force and rule their wives with iron fists.
They are often hot tempered and abusive at times.
Most of the while they are not well educated.
2)The Passive Types.
The passive types actually have their own way mapped out all the while but are manipulative and the wife does not realize that she has been controlled all the while.
They are not aggressive or abusive but play psychological games.
Most of the while they are well educated and intelligent.
Moral of the story: Men are alike it is just that their Modus Operandi differs!

Wow, how wrong can you get !

We have been conditioned by social and religious norms, for aeons, to behave in a certain fashion. When we meed change, and the mindset does not adapt enough, the result is what we see now - a clash of thoughts, manifested in the way we live and behave.

I have to admit here that most women that I have seen are more shrewd/clever (than men) and know the means to get what they desire/want. Let us admit - most humans fall in this category - we all want our priorities to be satisfied before we think of the other. The manner in which we get our priorities done has mainly to do with a lack of empathy and a lack of respect for another being, and also a lot on our conditioning and our perceived strengths.

So really, the effort to discriminate the actions between that of men and women is not required at all - everyone does what they are required to do, as they deem fit.

 

[auh]

Just by making unreasonable demands, absolute command, powerful orders, total control etc..etc..while seeking a girl for marriage and waiting desperately & indefinitely for the deal to arrive, unmindful of passing years, one can not be rest assured of a marvelous married life.

One has to get out of the craziness to be able to identify what best qualities the person has, that can help the union go a long way successfully and give meaning to a married life.

the highlighted is the first amendment to Ravi's pronouncement.

Was this not the case of the woman till a few decades back? This is what Shri Sangom/Shri Vaagmi have pointed out, but to no avail, it seems.

What is the use of crying over another's decision. In a free market, marketable goods would sell, only based on the demand/preference of the customer.

Boys are the goods now... with a lot of them falling under the non-marketable type.