Culture-some questions

[sangom]

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Dear Shri Nara and Shri Sangom,

To me Advaita philosophy appears totally coherent and flawless. Intuitively it seems to me that the truths of atman being brahman and that of maya are the most profound insights one could have and requires sheer super genius to grasp.

Dear Sravna,

I admit I am not a super genius, but only a very mediocre person with below average intelligence. May be that is why the deficiencies of advaita (as well as visishtadvaita) appear to me as obstructions in completely accepting them as fault-free. (I don't have much knowledge of dvaitham and hence I cannot comment on it.)

To my understanding, maya does not have a beginning or an end. It co-exists with Brahman and is neither created nor has an end and one can say the physical worlds co-exist with the spiritual world each physical world being transient.

To a person with only bookish knowledge, lke me, you seem to have modified even Sankara's advaita! Whereas Sankara and his followers say that adhyaaropa, avidyaa, maayaa, whatever, has an end (though it is anaadi) at which point the jeeva gains liberation, you now state that maayaa has no end either. Wonderful!!

A defining aspect of the physical realm is change. Everything undergoes change constantly and perishes eventually. To protect yourself against change or the ability to be totally unaffected by anything is a necessity for a timeless existence. Even the universe is not immune against an end and according to Hindu philosophy it does come to an end.

"protect yourself": what is 'yourself'? Is the self real? protect from what change?

A mind that is totally evolved attains timeless nature and hence becomes purely spiritual and merges with brahman.

Mind is only one of the accessories of the jeeva or soul; if mind alone can attain timeless nature, what will it be in that stage? Will it be independent of jiva?

We can view maya and therefore physical reality as the operative aspects of brahman, whose function is to produce brahman's timeless nature or we can say that brahman is timeless because maya operates and produces that effect. More accurately while talking of timeless nature we ahould say that the effects are engrained within brahman and because of the nature of the physical reality it has to be acted out in space-time, brahman or the souls seem to experience the space-time effects.

Frankly this is beyond my comprehension. I now have to admit that I do not know anything about advaitam. But just for clarifying doubts:
1. How can brahman, nirguna, have an operating aspect? It will then become a saguna with operational ability.
2. Maya operates to produce Brahman's timelessness?! Sankara said Maya created illusory world which is bound by time, form etc. Now whom to believe and follow, Sankara or yourself?
3. Timeless nature ingrained in brahman which by sankara's definition cannot have any nature, or characteristic?

Dear Sravna, I would, as Mr. Nara did, request you to study advaita and then discuss. but if you feel you have the necessary knowledge of advaita, you may kindly post a primer of advaita according to your belief, so that I can study and then get my doubts, if any, clarified from you.

Thanks in advance,

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sangom,

Sorry about the ambiguity in the first statement. It was a remark on Sankara's genius only and it doesn't make others mediocre. Very sorry about that again.

Maya has an end with respect to a jiva but it continues to operate forever as there is not just one physical universe. When mind becomes perfected it becomes the self or atman as perfection is manifest only in brahman/atman and the self is ready for moksha.

Brahman is not void. On the contrary it is everything. When Sankara says nirguna brahman has no characteristics, I think it is more justified to assume that it exhibits a perfect balance in everything without one particular feature being in excess of another.

Maya is of course illusory but its objective is to teach primarily and show the timelessness of the ultimate reality

Shri Sangom, I may have taken some liberties in interpreting Advaita the way I did but I think I am trying to be true to its spirit.

 

[kunjuppu]

you have taken the example of soap. believe it or not, indian soaps are of a superior quality. i buy only indian soaps from indian shops here in toronto. each time i come to india, i marvel at the selection of brands and fragrances. so, the choice of soaps, as something where indians get a raw deal, i think, is not deserved.

maybe we should take cars?

please give me your feedback. thank you.
Dear Kunjuppu,
Either yoiu are aruging for argument sake or you have not marketed in India. Quality of anything exported frojm India is far superior to that we receive in India here. especially in urban and semi urban areas. Do not speak of car, what about the petrol we receive. It is mixed with kerosine?The medicine prices are too high whereas the quality ???. The medicines banned in western countries are used here. Many of banned items in western countries do not get banned here or is banned very late. I can quote many examples But if youhad opioned sarcastically I stop here. If you really mean we can continue argument even though in narroiw sense it is out of scope of this thread. with regards kr subramanian

krs,

why should you think that i am being sarcastic?

in adayar, by the bus stop, there have a department store. we picked up more than 10 different types of soaps. these are for domestic consumption, and i was soo impressed by the variety and the fragrances.

you can go there yourself to verify. i am quite sure such is the case in any department store. ofcourse there may be fakes in certain outlets but won't the manufacturers go against the spurious vendors?

again medicines. prescription medicines are very very expensive in canada. ofcourse many have drug plans which pay for it.

but there are several indians here who do not have drug plans, and who order medicines in bulk. i have a relative who is diabetic, and he gets medicines brought by friends and relatives from india and saves thousands of dollars a year. would these people use indian made medicines if they are fakes?

now there may be adulteration in hospital drugs given free to poor. the poor get shafted anywhere and everywhere in the world. that is the reality of life.

so dear krs, i will not blanketwise condemn everything in india as fakes.

indian made cars are sold all over the developing world. you go to south africa - and it does me proud to see tata & mahindra trucks all over the country and white people driving it. mahindra sells its tractors to u.s. farmers.

for people selling fakes, there is only one solution - hang them by stringing them on a rope. i am serious. economic crimes should be considered on par with criminal murders.

 

[kr subramanian]

i would not be worried so much of the corruption, if things are delivered on time and with qualit
The above quoted lines were of Mr. Kunjuppu in the thread COMMONWEALTH GAMES. I ThinkThis is the basic attitude which increases the corruption in our country. Everybody wants their work tobe completed at the earliest and this trend started, especially in Kerala, I think. frm Gulf returnees. They will be coming in a short span of leave and wanted to complete everything before they go (from construction of house to marriage)

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom,
...
Brahman is not void. On the contrary it is everything. When Sankara says nirguna brahman has no characteristics, I think it is more justified to assume that it exhibits a perfect balance in everything without one particular feature being in excess of another.

Maya is of course illusory but its objective is to teach primarily and show the timelessness of the ultimate reality

Shri Sangom, I may have taken some liberties in interpreting Advaita the way I did but I think I am trying to be true to its spirit.

Dear Sravna,

There are lots of differences between my very limited understanding of advaitam, and the way/s in which you are interpreting it. Hence I feel there is no point in continuing this discussion which will not benefit either you, me or the other readers. I, therefore, withdraw.

 

[nachi naga]

folks,

advaitham philosophy got popular after adi-shankara acharyaal ,revived sanathana dharma,when buddhism & jainism took extra-ordinary strong roots,then in ancient bharatham,whose borders were indeed extremely wide and big or in other word's,the influence of the bharathian philosophy,were immensely popular and aped by other civilisations of those times.if today people ask for evidence or proof,one has to see the philosophy of sanathana dharma,how it has been interpreted in a particular language or geography of earth,the sanathana dharma schools of philosophy aka 'darshanas' is still rocking the world.mind's like me,ascribe language,geography etc to bharath,as its natural order,as i hail from bharath.

advaitham philosophy is Phd of darshans.without undergoing other darshnas,its verily impossible to grasp the sheer genius of advaitham.its all about personal experiance of a 'self' which cannot be explained by analogy or written works, or oral transmission or simply debating in our forum.becoz the 'iq' level of each participant is varied in nature.unless sweetness is personally experianced,does it make any sense to write about it or speak about it ?i guess not.thank you !

 

[happyhindu]

Sri Sangom Sir,

I think doing research on whether a `sthapathi' is a `sudra' or not is irrelevant. Personally I am into manufacturing business and as per varnashrama dharma, I have to be classified as a `sudra'. I am proud to be called `sudra' since I am making my bread and butter on an activity meant for `sudra' only. But Government will not accept to classify me as `sudra' and they will prefer to call me as an industrialist to extract more tax revenues.

But my point is both `sudras' of the past and present are always respected with dignity. They only produce goods and services for the entire community.

The other point is regarding British, I have my own views which you may not agree. The entire western world including Britain reaped the inventions made on Internal Combustion engines(popularly known as IC engines) in the late 19th century. The automobile revolution started only after that. In synchronous with the same, petroleum products and its derivatives were also developed. `Nylon' is a combination of the words `New York and London'.

Almost all the western countries reaped rich harvest through the automobile and plastics. They also killed the existing conventional industries in the less developed countries. They also spoiled the `environment' to the maximum extent in the process. Please go through the per capita emission levels county wise

List of countries by carbon dioxide emissions per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All the developed countries have already done enough damage to the environment and are continuously doing even now. The worst affected are not only poor and downtrodden communities but also all the living creatures including plants, trees etc.

India should not follow the western model of development and should produce `Green Energy'. India should adopt energy conservation technologies also right from the beginning so that we have to ensure that we are not `spoiling mother earth'. We worship mother earth as God. If I am correct Goddess Mahalaxmi is worshiped as Bhooma Devi. Lord Mahavishnu took `Varaha Avatar' and is known as `Boovaraghswamy' in Srimushnam. We worship Pancha Boothas.

Right from now onwards we should start tapping `Solar Energy', `Wind Energy', `Micro Hydel Energy' etc so that we should not affect environment during our development phase. We should electrify all our railway tracks and avoid using petroleum products for transportation. We should use mass rapid transit systems using electricity in the Cities and towns. We should build our own battery operated cars. We should avoid using plastic to the best possible extent and promote bio degradable products.

The present technologies which we are using are of British origin. On the one side it has killed the technical capabilities of our craftsmen and on the other side are doing damage to our environment.

Enough evidence is available that producers of natural cotton fibre `Dacca Muslin' clothes were driven out of their lively hood by synthetic yarn imported from Britain.

Jamdani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Personally I am also producing components for polluting automobiles now and we are changing the entire set up to green energy related products.

When we develop, we have to revive our old glory which always respected our natural resources and also environmental friendly. Our research institutions should focus on developing technologies which are not affecting the environment.

By doing the above, we may be doing great service to our future generations also.

All the best

Shri RVR,

How do you know the government will not accept to classify you as a shudra? Have you ever tried? If not, then please do try to change your caste, and let us know your experiances with various government officials.

It wud also be a good idea to ask your mutt gurus if you can "feel proud to be a shudra" (since you see, the dharmashastras say that a shudra must not feel pride, instead he must serve the other 3 varnas meekly).

PS: Shri RVR, please do not think i am going after you personally. Am hoping that my posts might (by luck and chance) make atleast one person think about individual caste positions (and the myriad caste issues it brings along).

 

[anandb]

folks,

advaitham philosophy got popular after adi-shankara acharyaal ,revived sanathana dharma,when buddhism & jainism took extra-ordinary strong roots,then in ancient bharatham,whose borders were indeed extremely wide and big or in other word's,the influence of the bharathian philosophy,were immensely popular and aped by other civilisations of those times.if today people ask for evidence or proof,one has to see the philosophy of sanathana dharma,how it has been interpreted in a particular language or geography of earth,the sanathana dharma schools of philosophy aka 'darshanas' is still rocking the world.mind's like me,ascribe language,geography etc to bharath,as its natural order,as i hail from bharath.

advaitham philosophy is Phd of darshans.without undergoing other darshnas,its verily impossible to grasp the sheer genius of advaitham.its all about personal experiance of a 'self' which cannot be explained by analogy or written works, or oral transmission or simply debating in our forum.becoz the 'iq' level of each participant is varied in nature.unless sweetness is personally experianced,does it make any sense to write about it or speak about it ?i guess not.thank you !

Shri. Nachi. I agree. Advaitam is something experiential. It has been and will be debated endlessly in future on an intellectual level but it will just be that. Debates. I personally find the concept of karma, the cycle of births and deaths and advaitam to be in perfect sync and complimenting one another. The problem is if we believe that all it matters is just our current birth cycle there ends the debate and thereby advaitam because it is simply not possible to grasp its meaning in one life cycle. The simple truth is setting the wrong karma right in the current cycle and continuing on that right path is possibly one way of realizing the concept of advaita. For that to happen one also needs to believe in the law of karma and reincarnation. Interestingly more and more Amercians have started believing in both these concepts.

 

[RVR]

Ms Happy Hindu

First thing one has to understand is Governments in India doesn't accept `varna' and only `caste'.

As per `varna' system I could be classified as a `Sudra' since I am involved in the manufacturing business.

If I misrepresent my `caste', I shall attract penal provisions under Indian Penal Code and could even be arrested.

Recently one IAS officer has been suspended from services in Tamilnadu for misrepresenting caste.

Suspended IAS officer spoils for a fight

Further inquiry is going on and if the Government proves correct, the suspended officer could also be arrested.

Please tell me honestly whether you want me to go behind bars?

Mutt gurus also go by caste only and not by `varna' and hence they will be least bothered whether I am performing an activity meant for `sudra'

All the best

Shri RVR,

How do you know the government will not accept to classify you as a shudra? Have you ever tried? If not, then please do try to change your caste, and let us know your experiances with various government officials.

It wud also be a good idea to ask your mutt gurus if you can "feel proud to be a shudra" (since you see, the dharmashastras say that a shudra must not feel pride, instead he must serve the other 3 varnas meekly).

PS: Shri RVR, please do not think i am going after you personally. Am hoping that my posts might (by luck and chance) make atleast one person think about individual caste positions (and the myriad caste issues it brings along).

 

[happyhindu]

thankyou for the reply.

i had expected something similar from you (escapism, i mean).

the ias officer (you have stated below) was suspended for faking his caste.

however, you need not lie about your caste or get a fake caste certificate.

you can voluntarily abdicate your caste and get a caste certificate truthfully.

since you are manufacturing auto components, traditionally it comes under smithery or blacksmith occupation. so your new caste wud be that of a lohar or vishwakarma.

you can go to the tashildar's office and fight for your rights to be classified as a blacksmith.

there is no need to predict outcomes without trying anything.

you can first make an attempt to get a caste certificate as a vishwakarma and then let us know your experiences.

since you claim to be working to uplift poor people, you can do this to uplift their morality (by showing them that they are not inferior due to their birth). they will be very thankful to you.

btw, you have not replied about seeking clarification from your mutt gurus. do let us know what is their suggestion to you
a) for "being proud" to be a shudra,
b) for abdicating your caste, and
c) to decide the caste of your children since you (the father) has become a proud shudra.

instead of claiming your mutt gurus will be least bothered, why don't you first get answers from them, and then share your conversations (with them) here.

Ms Happy Hindu

First thing one has to understand is Governments in India doesn't accept `varna' and only `caste'.

As per `varna' system I could be classified as a `Sudra' since I am involved in the manufacturing business.

If I misrepresent my `caste', I shall attract penal provisions under Indian Penal Code and could even be arrested.

Recently one IAS officer has been suspended from services in Tamilnadu for misrepresenting caste.

Suspended IAS officer spoils for a fight

Further inquiry is going on and if the Government proves correct, the suspended officer could also be arrested.

Please tell me honestly whether you want me to go behind bars?

Mutt gurus also go by caste only and not by `varna' and hence they will be least bothered whether I am performing an activity meant for `sudra'

All the best

 

[RVR]

Ok I don't mind applying to concerned authorities (may be to a Tahsildar or his subordinates) telling the fact that I am born to brahmin parents and I would like to be issued a caste certificate according to the present position.

Only thing is I would like to consult my lawyers before doing so since it should not land me in problems. I shall get my application letter also drafted by my lawyer so that he has to save me if the need arises.

I just want to throw a challenge to all those who advocate reform brahminism, advocating inter-caste marriages etc.

Are you or your children or grandchildren or any other mutually acceptable close relative ready to marry a Scheduled caste or Scheduled tribe community person. I shall organise a bride or bridegroom of suitable age. Instead of advising others, please start from your end.

Since I have accepted the challenge, I expect the reformers here to accept my challenge in the right spirit and act accordingly.

All the best

thankyou for the reply.

i had expected something similar from you (escapism, i mean).

the ias officer (you have stated below) was suspended for faking his caste.

however, you need not lie about your caste or get a fake caste certificate.

you can voluntarily abdicate your caste and get a caste certificate truthfully.

since you are manufacturing auto components, traditionally it comes under smithery or blacksmith occupation. so your new caste wud be that of a lohar or vishwakarma.

you can go to the tashildar's office and fight for your rights to be classified as a blacksmith.

there is no need to predict outcomes without trying anything.

you can first make an attempt to get a caste certificate as a vishwakarma and then let us know your experiences.

since you claim to be working to uplift poor people, you can do this to uplift their morality (by showing them that they are not inferior due to their birth). they will be very thankful to you.

btw, you have not replied about seeking clarification from your mutt gurus. do let us know what is their suggestion to you
a) for "being proud" to be a shudra,
b) for abdicating your caste, and
c) to decide the caste of your children since you (the father) has become a proud shudra.

instead of claiming your mutt gurus will be least bothered, why don't you first get answers from them, and then share your conversations (with them) here.

 

[happyhindu]

Ok I don't mind applying to concerned authorities (may be to a Tahsildar or his subordinates) telling the fact that I am born to brahmin parents and I would like to be issued a caste certificate according to the present position.

Only thing is I would like to consult my lawyers before doing so since it should not land me in problems. I shall get my application letter also drafted by my lawyer so that he has to save me if the need arises.

I just want to throw a challenge to all those who advocate reform brahminism, advocating inter-caste marriages etc.

Are you or your children or grandchildren or any other mutually acceptable close relative ready to marry a Scheduled caste or Scheduled tribe community person. I shall organise a bride or bridegroom of suitable age. Instead of advising others, please start from your end.

Since I have accepted the challenge, I expect the reformers here to accept my challenge in the right spirit and act accordingly.

All the best

When you say you were born to brahmin parents, you must also specify the occupations of your parents (since jaati is occupation). And yes, please do let us know about all the efforts you will take to change your jaati, at every stage.

And please do not call this a challenge. It is not. Its about your own personal efforts.

I already have relatives married to those who come under SC / ST category. My children are small. When they grow up, they will have all the freedom to marry as they please.

(Btw, i was not the one who advocated inter-caste mariages. Bcoz, i know that a couple cannot marry (or remain married to) someone they do not like for the sake of caste. And i also know of folks who are into live-in relationships without marriage. So i can only guide the younger lot to get married. And i dunno how i wud react if the younger lot turns out to have homosexual tendencies).

 

[sangom]

...
I just want to throw a challenge to all those who advocate reform brahminism, advocating inter-caste marriages etc.

Are you or your children or grandchildren or any other mutually acceptable close relative ready to marry a Scheduled caste or Scheduled tribe community person. I shall organise a bride or bridegroom of suitable age. Instead of advising others, please start from your end.

Since I have accepted the challenge, I expect the reformers here to accept my challenge in the right spirit and act accordingly.

All the best

Dear Shri RVR,

Just think a bit before you post pl. If I advocate ICMs with SC/ST, I can do that (unfortunately my time has long past gone), and now I cannot compel my sons (since I don't have a daughter I am not mentioning that but this will apply to daughters also) to marry SC/ST just because I take up your challenge; all I can do is give my children full freedom to choose their future life partners. I have done so in the case of my third son. I have allowed him to marry any Hindu or if he becomes very particular, any girl whom he selects. There are not a few TB households now where one or more inter-caste and/or inter-religious marriages have taken place and, even though the parents are not suo motu reformers, they have accepted their children's marriages and are living a normal life. Hence what you consider as a challenge is slowly sneaking in through the underground, so to say. What we have yet to see is to which caste/s or religion the offsprings of these marriages will belong to.

I think other reformers can also do the same only unless they themselves are young and are yet to get married.

HH,

As regards homo tendency, my feeling is that if any of our grandchildren/children turn out to be homo/lesbian, we will accept it (though with initial reservations) just as the western society has done.

 

[kunjuppu]

my children have long ago told me, based on the TB households and marriages they have seen, that they will seek their own partners.

we have given them some broad guidelines, based on our knowledge, safety, and (ofcourse) prejudices.

it is upto them to chose, but i will definitely provide feedback, whether good or bad. i think that is my duty to do so, just as it is their right to select their spouse.

hopefully, in such things, head overrules the heart.

 

[kunjuppu]

concert question

I guess that when one’s 20 year old nephew gives a carnatic music arangetram, even the most reluctant audience is perforced to grace the event. Which is what happened to me.

This young gentleman, is no ordinary high achiever, but even vies to top this exclusive group. this was the first full carnatic music that I sat through for 3 1/3 hours of my own voliation. It was gripping.

Ofcourse, the goshtis were peppered with rap like movements which to me only added some extra spice also there was more swara izhukkal than songs themselves.

The last point, is something, I was told, no arangetramist should attempt. Apparently the blending of ragas and swaras was a speciality trademark of alathur brothers and the eminent person, during his benediction discourse, pointed it out as unbecoming and perhaps arrogance of this youngster to attempt to imitate such erstwhile carnatic music nobility (‘the student must go step by step, and take time to digest..and not jump over to attempt difficult things blah blah blah).

i do not know how the emininent person missed out on the repeated applause at several intervals from a rather knowledgeable crowd (ecept ofcourse yours truly) missed him.

This local eminent carnatic person has gone on record that he will not have females as his students. No explanation, even though he holds an academic position in a reputed university here.

Not sure why the eminent held the youngster to a qualified pass on his arangetram. It took one of the gurus, to come after the eminent person, to tell the audience, of his appreciation of the young talent. This guru felt that he was not engaged in imparting knowledge. Instead, each class was a challenge, as the guru had to work hard to come up to the standards of the sishya and his expectations.

Ofcourse, such gems are beyond the comprehension of the eminent persons.

I don’t know still, why in the world, we have ignoramuses, guised as eminent persons, are invited to spit forth some verbal nonsense on good occasions.

 

[sangom]

...
I don’t know still, why in the world, we have ignoramuses, guised as eminent persons, are invited to spit forth some verbal nonsense on good occasions.

Dear Kunjuppu,

Since I have a doubt lurking in my mind whether I am, in reality, an ignoramus or not, the innuendo in your arangetram post has come as a botheration to me whether I am the one aimed at. Hopefully, you had not found out till you read this, I think.

 

[kunjuppu]

sangom,

that is why i try to address each of my posts even though sometimes it is addressed to the general publlic.

sir, if you would be ignoramus than i am not only a maha ignoramus, but muttaal, mandu and all of those

please cheer up. in my eyes, you are very much on the pedestal.

btw what made you think such? it is not the first time this has happened to my posts, and much as i try to avoid it, it comes to bug me.

my apologies for even facilitating through this post, such thoughts in your head. please forgive me for omissions such as these.

 

[sangom]

sangom,

that is why i try to address each of my posts even though sometimes it is addressed to the general publlic.

sir, if you would be ignoramus than i am not only a maha ignoramus, but muttaal, mandu and all of those

please cheer up. in my eyes, you are very much on the pedestal.

btw what made you think such? it is not the first time this has happened to my posts, and much as i try to avoid it, it comes to bug me.

my apologies for even facilitating through this post, such thoughts in your head. please forgive me for omissions such as these.

Dear Kunjuppu,

Many thanks. I am happy:happy:

 

[Nara]

And i dunno how i wud react if the younger lot turns out to have homosexual tendencies).

Dear Happy,

This is an important question youngsters (in the 30s) should prepare themselves for. As the society becomes more and more progressive, our young adults will find love in their own way. What is most important, IMO, is to provide support and love for any love our children find.

Much of the opposition comes from fear, which is rooted in lack of knowledge. If we learn to understand the feelings of individuals we will begin to understand and appreciate.

You know Happy, a wonderful thing happened just a few days ago in the U.S. A US Federal district court judge ruled that in the secular arena, marriage equality between two individuals must prevail across the board, the government must not discriminate on the basis of gender of the partners. But, the decision is far from final. The case will be appealed all the way to the supreme court, which is evenly split but for one centrist justice, Justice Kennedy. Whichever side he favors will rule the day.

Marriage is about love first and foremost, the love that says I want to spend the rest of every living moment with my partner. What rational reason can there be to deny that right to two individuals just because they belong to the same gender? Sex can be had within love and outside of love as well. But love can be had only within love, and a secular government ought not discriminate recognizing that love based on the gender of the partners.

Cheers!

 

[anandb]

My worry is what if the trend of same sex love increases to such an extent that it affects procreation. Probably it will be an effective birth control measure.

 

[Nara]

My worry is what if the trend of same sex love increases to such an extent that it affects procreation. Probably it will be an effective birth control measure.

Dear anand, biologically and logically speaking this will never happen. Outside of donars, homosexuals don't procreate. Therefore, the "homo-gene" will not get passed down. Since only hetro-sex can produce children, the proportion of non-hetro population will remain stable -- the apparent increase will only be due to more of them coming out in the open.

Cheers!

 

[anandb]

Shri. Nara,

What I meant was if the homo population keeps increasing then births can only be achieved by other means like donors. So a donor baby may or may not be biologically related to the parent. A baby could have two loving fathers or two loving mothers instead of a dad and mom. Is this good for the child's upbringing? I am not against homosexuality, per se, but wondering about the implications if a major part of the society starts heading that way?

 

[kunjuppu]

not to worry anand.

even while we are discussing the reluctance of women to bear children, they are planning factories in china for making babies made to order. all they would need is your sperm, along with desired features, so that the DNA could be modified per your specs.

the artificially incubated babies would gestate for 9 months and be born.

now you would have a choice. as you know, the human baby, is the creature that takes the longest to be self sufficient. such is the length of our preparation for real life these days.

so you can further instruct the chinese factory, to continue to keep the baby for additional 3 years all in a incubatory mode - sleep induced, but will be fed regularly, and cleaned regularly, while knowledge transfer of sciences, languages etc. would be fed sublimely, 24 hours a day.

so at the end of 3 years, hey presto, you would have a toilet trained, night sleeping, well educated and pleasant baby companion.

i heard that this factory is still in the pilot stage. maybe it will be ready for the next generation. after that, there will be no more dark skinned people in india anymore after the current baby generation passes on.

only in china, they say

 

[sangom]

not to worry anand.

even while we are discussing the reluctance of women to bear children, they are planning factories in china for making babies made to order. all they would need is your sperm, along with desired features, so that the DNA could be modified per your specs.

the artificially incubated babies would gestate for 9 months and be born.

now you would have a choice. as you know, the human baby, is the creature that takes the longest to be self sufficient. such is the length of our preparation for real life these days.

so you can further instruct the chinese factory, to continue to keep the baby for additional 3 years all in a incubatory mode - sleep induced, but will be fed regularly, and cleaned regularly, while knowledge transfer of sciences, languages etc. would be fed sublimely, 24 hours a day.

so at the end of 3 years, hey presto, you would have a toilet trained, night sleeping, well educated and pleasant baby companion.

i heard that this factory is still in the pilot stage. maybe it will be ready for the next generation. after that, there will be no more dark skinned people in india anymore after the current baby generation passes on.

only in china, they say

Dear Kunjuppu, Nara and Anand,

What about cloning?

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Kunjuppu, Nara and Anand,

What about cloning?

cloning still involves work of bringing up the babies. the first 3 years are the toughest. now with the chinese factory model, we can outsource it and get the babies ready made, at the right age, right features, right knowledge and above all, delivered at your doorstep (it is yet to be verified if UPS or DHL would agree to do baby deliveries - some ethics may be involved in human trafficking across borders).