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Deccani Origin for Vadama Iyers

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... Similarly Brahmin migration from South to North has also taken place some time in the past, mostly from "Dravidadesam".

Yes sir, this is very true, there is a community of SVs in Bengal who are, obviously, from the south. If I look it up I can confirm when this migration took place, and, no doubt, it took place under the patronage of some Vaishnava King. They recite Azhvar pasurams written in Bengali script, so do may Kannadigas and Andhras. I have personal acquintance of couple of these Bengali SV Brahmins.

best regards ...
 
To All; To-day my mouse opened this thread and I was surprised to read all postings, Vadama, Brahazsarnam, Vaithmas,Sozhiyan,Gurukkal, all sub sets just created by time to time influenced social group heads to keep that particular groups under their control.eg: Vadama is from social group of TB's living in Vedhamcharpuri.( Puri means conducts) that is to-days Vellachery of chennai sub-urban area.SVs a made up group from verious small communitys and there culture is some different. Some SV's conveted from so called Dalits to SV by Ramanuja.(Kumbakkam). Origanlly SVs Group moved from Kutch towards Karnatka Dhavangray and they moved down south towards Salem,Erode, Madurai.To days this Social Group called Devanga Chettairs speaking Kannada,Sowrastra , another group called Kollmuti chetty precently a larger population lives in Salem.They follow Brahmin type rituals and they wear Poonul(when Marriage day the yused to put Poonul) but their spoken language is Telugu.( a small story about them A Brahmin Reshis son married aHunter Girl and their Son is always cry and the Grandfather used his Thandam to concosle the child from cry(Thandam means Koll). Why we should have a long discussions ,just proud as a Human Birth and only by Human being can understand the God. s.r.k.
 
Happy,

I thought they also consider Murugan as "marumaan" (sister's son) of Vishnu and not as son-in-law because the parentages of Valli and Deyvaanai are fixed. Is it wrong?

Dear sir,
There are so many versions. Dunno which to choose :juggle: :decision:

Version 1:
According to the book "Caste in Tamil culture" (page 116), Valli was the daughter of Vishnu. The book says Murugan had 2 wives, one was the daughter of Indra (Devyani), and the other one was the daughter of Vishnu (Valli). So in that version, Murugan is son-in-law to both, Indra and Vishnu. Here too Valli is daughter of Vishnu: http://murugan.org/temples/parankundram.htm

If i remember right in one purana version (forgot which one now), Vishnu was mentioned as Indra's brother. So perhaps in such a family picture, we cud say that Devyani and Valli were cousin sisters who shared Muruka as their husband.

Version 2:
According to the book "Kataragama" by A.Rasiah, a female deer (doe) gave birth to Valli or Sunderavalli and she was raised by a veddah king, Nambyrajan.

Version 3:
According to some, Valli was found as a baby in a field (and was adopted by the Veddah chieftain Nambi Raja). And Skanda was considered a Yaksha, (spelled yaka or yakka by Sinhalese). Some links: Valli Marries the God of the Mountain and Veddas celebrate Kataragama wedding festival According to the book "Srilanka: roots of history and conflict" by Spencer, the rituals of kataragama include those of both deva (god) and yaksa (demon).

Though the Veddah belief tends to obliterates Devyani and focuses only on Valli, some versions bring both thevyani and valli together to Skanda: "The Cult of Kataragama" - an essay by Maureen Seneviratne

Version 4:
According to the book, "Exorcism and the Art of Healing in Ceylon" (page 137), Skanda himself is considered an incarnation of Vishnu. And i suppose that version comes because Muruga's portrayal in some ways is somewhat like that of Krishna in some version as playing with Gopikas (Muruka dancing in the hills with girls: Siva and Kumara worship)

Additional version:
According to the book, "Caste in Tamil culture", the Karavas believe that Valli was not only brought up by Veddahs but also by Bhadrakali as a foster-mom of sorts, and this particular Bhadrakali was from the Karava community.

---

According to the Alutnuvara shrine story (book called "Buddhist Vishnu" by Holt), Dadmiunda devata bandara brought 150,000 Yakshas to cut granite and create the shrine / temple with the power of Vishnu. Wud such stories indicate that Yakshas were early indo-aryans workers brought to Srilanka to work ?

Even the wedding ceremony is claimed differently. Some sources, including one book, "Flipside of Hindu Symbolism" by Narayanan, says that Murugan married Valli in Gandharva style and Devyani in Prajapatya style. But the wedding ceremony celebrated in Kataragama does not appear to be Gandharva style.

So sir, there is more than 1 version, about the parentage of valli. So am not sure which to choose. Btw, this is a nice pic of a sculpture of Skanda from the Kushan period: Skandakumara and Kataragama: An Aspect of the Relation of Hinduism and Buddhism in Sri Lanka

The uniqueness of the Aryan-led Hinduism was its cleverness and readiness to "engulf & devour" as many of the original tribal beliefs/totems/tutelary deities etc. Initially they did so from within the available Rigvedic pantheon - rudra with siva, vishnu as supreme, indra and varuna downgraded, brihaspati/prajapati downgraded and their status given to the brahma, the creator, etc. But when the number of new aspirants to be accommodated in this fashion exceeded the possibilities in the vedas, they invented newer and newer methods and also created the different puranas to justify these new deities! This is, of course, my pov.

Most puranic events are "reflections" of some actual conflict between two or more groups and the victors were, IMO, almost always the vedic people, but just to mollify and absorb the vanquished into their religious fold, the deity/totem of the vanquished was exalted in some puranic incident or another, and the gullible on both the sides - victors & the vanquished - believed it!
:) interesting perspective sir...

I am not too sure whether "kattarpanthi" (ultra conservative) vaishnavism existed in the times of M. Bh or Ramayana; IMO, such a thing starts with Prahlada's story in the Srimad Bhagavata. (Earlier references in taittiriya aranyaka and mahabharata did not project Vishnu as the sole supreme godhead, I think). By the time Abbe Dubois came to India (1770-1848) vaishnavism had established very much which, as we know, happened much earlier in the time of Ramanuja. I think this polarisation has nothing much to do with the puranic type of confrontations.
I have a small take on varna in mahabharat. Krishna spoke about varnas, gunas by birth, etc alright -- however He did not say that the caste (occupation) of a boy depends on his father's occupation. Yet somehow poor Krishna is bashed up for creating the caste-system by some.

And wonder why people gloss over the role of Indra in the mahabharat. I mean, Indra was the one who classed the mlecchas, dasyus, robbers, into a defined social system. So i think Indra was the culprit of the class-system (??).

Regards.
 
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