Did your foreign living enable you to get more broad-minded?

[Jaykay767]

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Most of the parents back in India have no clue what happens to their kids in the west !

These kids go there at the most impressionable ages. Most of them get into drinking, dating, drugs, sex, sleeping with countless women in motels, etc… contracting various diseases, & they completely debase their life.. and in many cases, their health, wealth & life.

See, it is all about peer pressure. If all the kids in a school are god fearing, religious, your kids will also become one. If all the kids in the school are dating, pre-teen sex, then they will also be doing the same thing.

It is ultimately up to the parents to guide the kids at this delicate stage in life.. & how they want their kids to be in life.

Kids born & brought up in India, have mostly retained their basics, even if they are not religious. Most kids born & brought up in the west are lost causes.

So if living in one place for a long time makes one a frog in a well, then it is anyday better than lost lives in a very broad minded place like the west. LOL

Not going abroad is a blessing in disguise. Ignorance is bliss as they say !!

LOL

 

[JR]

I sit and watch Western people, their good manners, their warmth, their humane movies (like Titanic, Hunger games...), I can feel their genuine nature. I, for one, is totally for Indian traditions and HINDUISM (you can read my thoughts at 'Russians Embrace Hinduism' thread in Sociology section) but present day Hindus are NOT ideal Hindus. Just compare the amount of corruption both at societal level and at the individual minds of present day India, it is disgusting.

There is a lot to learn from Westerners if one chooses to leave their eyes (and heart) open.

 

[Jaykay767]

JR – if you settle abroad for long & your kids growup there, you will know the real story & how much of the traditions will survive by the time they reach their 20s!. Probably you should wait till you see the ugly side of the great western country you are in before being so confident!!

In the meanwhile, you may want to read about Indian families & their sad saga in the USA.

Yes, yes, yes, we all know corruption is a problem, cleanliness is a problem, many many problems in India… no need to state the obvious. Most PIOs use these comparisons to justify their stay in the USA….. despite the widespread racism, problems they face.

 

[Jaykay767]

The greatest gift a parent can give a child is the ability to thoroughly evaluate the pros & cons of each decision.

In the past, no one knew the ugly side of the USA/west even though many of us have travelled there on business work or as tourist. Our PIOs cleverly hid the ugly side & presented only the glorious side creating this huge fascination & subsequent immigration to the west.

But today, one can do a pros & cons research on any subject courtesy – great google !

So instead of listening to some aya ram, gaya ram PIOs, it is better for young aspirants to do a pros & cons of living abroad & read the horror stories.

Cheers,

 

[JR]

there are + and - in every culture. My OP is aimed at whether Indians settled abroad have been able to identify and incorporte the +'s of the West into their mindset. Yes, there are several -'s to West. But, we are all provided with the ability to exercise our judgement and caution to filter out the negatives and inculcate the positives. In the OP, I just identified a few of the negatives in our culture, whose influence is minimal in the West and aims at asking others if they have identified any such good/positive things that they follow now. Nowhere I said the West is completely fool-proof. I, for one, repeat, that I find Hinduism to be the most glorious of them all, however to my dismay, present day Hindus are not ideal Hindus at all.

 

[Jaykay767]

JR –

This is not a India vs West fight & who is better.

Western societies fail in the most important area for everyone, which is in the area of kids!. I mean why do people go abroad?, afterall to provide their kids with the best life.

If all the 10 yr, 12 yr, 14 yr, 16 yr old whites, Hispanics, black kids all have sex, then how can the Indian kids be immune to this ?

If the kids have sex at this age, start drinking, what happens to their lives??. will they even learn any rituals, or will they even pray to Gods or anything about our religion ?

So it is the lives of our kids that are at stake & that’s why I am so strongly opinionated on this.

Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

JR –

Western societies are defined only on one thing – sex. Every conversation is about how many boyfriends, girlfriends?, how many sex partners etc…

PIOs may be okay with this – so what if 12/14 yr olds have sex, but for many of us in the religious world – it is an absolute NO NO…

This is the Lakshman rekha for us…

Rest of what west has to offer is irrelevant when it comes to settling abroad. Of course, we will look to them & continue to learn from them on science, technology etc..

Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

Indians have a huge inferiority complex that makes them look down upon their own country & criticize all the time. Of course, praising the west, look upto the whites all the time.

This is the reason why racism is so prevalent in theUSA/West. If we feel inferior, then others will use that to beat us down further. If we don’t care what others say, they have no control over us.

And when the whites think they are superior, why shouldn’t the other races think they are superior. Superiority complex does not mean being arrogant, it is about pride in our people, religion, culture & traditions. It is about not bad mouthing our people, our race, our religion, our culture, etc. you will not see any American bad mouthing his country..

When I visited US last, one of my friends complained about racism all the time, so I asked him what are you doing about it ?. when we were in the restaurant, a white guy came & sat next to our table, while my friend smiled at him, I ordered the waiter to shift us out of the table to a far place. The white guy was stunned & he learned about facing racism first hand… of course my PIO friend was very upset about it… but he continued to cry about racism till I left back to India.

Our ancestors ruled the world, & it is sad to see our people falling like nine pins in the west due to racist abuses & badgering…and despite all this, they keep praising the west & bad mouthing India.

Astonishing to say the least !!

 

[JR]

JR –

This is not a India vs West fight & who is better.

Western societies fail in the most important area for everyone, which is in the area of kids!. I mean why do people go abroad?, afterall to provide their kids with the best life.

If all the 10 yr, 12 yr, 14 yr, 16 yr old whites, Hispanics, black kids all have sex, then how can the Indian kids be immune to this ?

If the kids have sex at this age, start drinking, what happens to their lives??. will they even learn any rituals, or will they even pray to Gods or anything about our religion ?

So it is the lives of our kids that are at stake & that’s why I am so strongly opinionated on this.

Cheers,

No, this is where individual karma is at play, JayKay! Take my son for example, he and his gang of friends are all without girlfriends, not even motivated to look for one.

It is same culture you are blaming that has produced brilliant Harvard, MIT, brown, Columbia and other IVY school grads and many of them go on to have very successful lives and even here, many of them have successful marriages too.

It all comes down to individual karma, one can get screwed up even growing under most protective Indian culture or can shine like a superstar even growing under Western culture.

The point of the OP is not to discuss what is missing in each culture, as you said, but to identify some goodness within the Western culture which we can appreciate and try to incorporate into our behavior and thinking.

 

[prasad1]

Jrji,
This is what I was afraid of.
Sangomji has summarized it the best. There are Indians in India (with the outward boasting of India is Mahan) with their eyes closed. They would like to shroud everything that is wrong, and sing the praise of some mythical land.

Both the places have their + and -, and like rajiji said it is upto the individual to make the best use of it.

 

[biswa]

I had a girlfriend when I was 18, right in the middle of India. I think we had some good times. What's wrong? Why are the maamas feeling jealous?

 

[renuka]

I dont get it..what has having a girlfriend or boyfriend have to do anything with the geographical location of a person?

I studied in India and a very conservative Hindu girl from a strict Brahmin family was dating a Muslim guy.

She said she had no intention of marrying him..she just wanted to feel a bit different.

She was quite a rebel.

So many of Indian citizens were having boyfriends/girlfriends.

I do not see anything wrong in anyone having a boyfriend/girlfriend whether they are in the North Pole or South Pole or anywhere in between.

In fact its always better for parents to know who their children are mixing with and if they do fall in love we just need to guide them.

Its unguided innocent kids that land in the most trouble...after all even Love Jihad is only a problem with girls from conservative homes.they are too innocent and easily misled and fall flat for some display of money.

If only parents address the issue that it is perfectly normal for a human to fall for another human..at least these kids can be guided to prevent complications.

 

[renuka]

When I visited US last, one of my friends complained about racism all the time, so I asked him what are you doing about it ?. when we were in the restaurant, a white guy came & sat next to our table, while my friend smiled at him, I ordered the waiter to shift us out of the table to a far place. The white guy was stunned & he learned about facing racism first hand… of course my PIO friend was very upset about it… but he continued to cry about racism till I left back to India.

OMG!

I dont believe this.

Why did you do this?

That white guy did not behave in any wrong manner.

I am surprised to read this...for all the values you talk about...you just earned yourself "bad' Karma!LOL

You should only play the tit for tat game..if you really want to play it when someone offends you not when someone has not done anything to you.

 

[krish44]

I had a girlfriend when I was 18, right in the middle of India. I think we had some good times. What's wrong? Why are the maamas feeling jealous?

Lol. Biswaji did she ditch you for someone better? sorry could not resist getting personal.

 

[krish44]

OMG!

I dont believe this.

Why did you do this?

That white guy did not behave in any wrong manner.

I am surprised to read this...for all the values you talk about...you just earned yourself "bad' Karma!LOL

You should only play the tit for tat game..if you really want to play it when someone offends you not when someone has not done anything to you.

well if peter disciminates , then jaykayji will find paul to give the same treatment back

all whites are same .all discriminate

mera bharat mahan.lol

 

[renuka]

Lol. Biswaji did she ditch you for someone better? sorry could not resist getting personal.

Krish ji,

Who ever said that a good relationship needed to lead to marriage?

None of the Love Epics we knew off led to marriage becos everyone knows marriage ruins romance!LOL

BTW fairy tales usually end as "they lived happily ever after"..they end it fast..no one writes about marriage!LOL

 

[renuka]

well if peter disciminates , then jaykayji will find paul to give the same treatment back

all whites are same .all discriminate

mera bharat mahan.lol

I get a strong feeling that some Indians feel "glorified" in India and have been on top of the food chain and have been respectfully placed all these while..so when they head into regions where they are just a sheer nobody like any other Tom,Dick or Harry of the USA...the Indian Amars ,Akbars and Anthonys's egoes have a Humpty Dumpty type of great fall that even the King's men can never ever put back again!LOL

Racism rears it ugly head everywhere. Who cares? As long it is not physical and causes grievous hurt what another thinks about me is the least of my concern.

Its their opinion..I cant change anyone's mind and its not as if all humans are "innocent" and never had any "discriminative"/racists" thought of any race or community that is different from them.

 

[krish44]

Krish ji,

Who ever said that a good relationship needed to lead to marriage?

None of the Love Epics we knew off led to marriage becos everyone knows marriage ruins romance!

BTW fairy tales usually end as "they lived happily ever after"..they end it fast..no one writes about marriage!LOL

well thats a pessimistic view of relationships.

many relationships go thru a phase of on and off . the meetings get less often and finally bang , crash and dead.

both go thru a period of depression .

some pick up themselves again and try with someone else . these are uncurably romantic types.

others listen to their mothers and get married and become solid husbands/virtuous wives. lol

who lives happily afterwards is a matter of opinion.lol

 

[krish44]

I get a strong feeling that some Indians feel "glorified" in India and have been on top of the food chain and have been respectfully placed all these while..so when they head into regions where they are just a sheer nobody like any other Tom,Dick or Harry of the USA...the Indian Amars ,Akbars and Anthonys's egoes have a Humpty Dumpty type of great fall that even the King's men can never ever put back again!LOL

Racism rears it ugly head everywhere. Who cares? As long it is not physical and causes grievous hurt what another thinks about me is the least of my concern.

Its their opinion..I cant change anyone's mind and its not as if all humans are "innocent" and never had any "discriminative"/racists" thought of any race or community that is different from them.

I quite agree , when we go to a different place /country to start our careers , we are mostly at the bottom level of the earning population.

we get discriminated if we are a minority wherever we are.

we realise what it is to be the subject of discrimination.

with india rising and all round prosperity , a new group of indians have emerged on the national scene who are well paid, and upwardly mobile who discriminate against

the have nots. .poverty is no longer being glorified . we look down on those not well off.

in addition, instead of caste , it is money which is now the root cause of discrimination

 

[SANDHYAV]

Love, job positions, and what else..depression......Mindedness is good. Too much mindedness leads to futile discussions like these...There will be positives and negatives even in prison...Comparing extremes of liberalism and conservatism leads one to no-where...

The bias is all posters are Indians/asians and as such in some identity crisis when comes to this thread and ventilating their repressed thoughts which is is what it looks like. ....

If there is genuine discrimination, why don't you approach a lawyer?

 

[krish44]

Love, job positions, and what else..depression......Mindedness is good. Too much mindedness leads to futile discussions like these...There will be positives and negatives even in prison...Comparing extremes of liberalism and conservatism leads one to no-where...

The bias is all posters are Indians/asians and as such in some identity crisis when comes to this thread and ventilating their repressed thoughts which is is what it looks like. ....

If there is genuine discrimination, why don't you approach a lawyer?

we do not like lawyers also to get depressed.lol

 

[Jaykay767]

Renuka –

This is about our people, our race & making a standwhen it matters. Karma here is not negative, because one is fighting against injustice to an entire race of people.

Racism is so widespread in the USA, you can hardly find any genuine white who does not indulge in it.

Even the so called democrats in private, bad mouth the immigrants, Hispanics, Indians, etc.. there is no secret in this, it is all over the internet..

This has absolutely nothing to do with caste superiority, & trying to show we TBs are better than others. Our people cutting across Bs & NBs are great, & there is absolutely no reason to put up with the racist crap in the USA/Europe

If you don’t make a stand & send a strong message, this issue will never get resolved. Imagine if all the Indians, Blacks, Hispanics just ignore the whites & put them down like they do, the entire racism will disappear in no time.

Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

See how the Egyptian High Priests wielded such poweracross the world. Everyone even today are stunned at them. Alexander was so impressed with them, he requested them to declare him a Paraoh. It meant so much to him. Greeks were so enamored, they adopted the Egyptian Gods, culture/customs. Similarly our priests, they controlled the entire world & ruled them for centuries.

All I am saying is if you have superiority in yourself, then everyone will come to you & ack. you. On the other hand, if you feel inferior, & look up to the whites as though they are great, then they will behave condescendingly against you.

Just ignore them.. I mean really what do they have ???. No culture, no religion, no customs, no rituals, personal lives are a disaster,etc.. etc…

Why would anyone think the whites are great ????

Beats me…

 

[renuka]

Renuka –


If you don’t make a stand & send a strong message, this issue will never get resolved. Imagine if all the Indians, Blacks, Hispanics just ignore the whites & put them down like they do, the entire racism will disappear in no time.

Cheers,

Dear JK,

Racism is everywhere.

Once when I was in the government service one Non Indian patient's number was called to enter the consultation room but he was not there so the nurse called out his name and number again and since he did not come in still and was no where around..the nurse called the next patient in and after that called back the earlier patient.

Ok the 2nd patient was the same race as me.

So the earlier patient started accusing me of racism that I called in my own race first!

I explained to him that we called him several times and since he was not there we called the next person in and then called him again.

I told him this happens even in banks when someone does not respond to the number the next number in line will be called.

But he still accused me of racism.I then told him "if you feel so you can write an official complain and state your reasons and give concrete evidence and not just accuse me without basis"

He walked out after getting treated and did not make the complain.

I have also faced situations where my own race might not treat their own race well becos they fear they will be called a racist.

There used to be a consultant who was the same race as me but he would only talk nicely to Non Indian doctors.

He would not be so nice to Indian docs like me and a few others then look at us to see our reaction.

I think he wanted us to react. Who cares? He can play his stupid games..

 

[Jaykay767]

Renuka –

Lets not keep justifying the white racism saying all areracist. White racism in west today is a big monster & Indians are at the receiving end.. like the Blacks & Hispanics.

Indians & other non-white races have a massive inferiority complex which is fuelling this problem. So we need to recognize this & work to resolve it. I can understand the anxiety of the PIOs to whitewash this problem, but it is not about them.

It is about warning the innocent young boys & girls who go to the USA in their teens/20s for studies, immigration etc… & end up scarring their lives due to racism.

White racism faced by our Indians can be discussed without linking to Indian racism/ caste-ism etc..

Lets recognize the each problem separately & fix it.

Cheers,