Did your foreign living enable you to get more broad-minded?

[Jaykay767]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

Narayana Murthy was insulted & abused by a white man in Europe. He was so insulted by this incident, this prompted him to start Infosys & prove that Indians can build great business empires..

Young Indian kids are racially insulted in the USA, Europe, in schools, colleges…

Why would anyone brush aside racism issue as a minor one when the entire world is discussing about it ? this is the topic of discussion post Ferguson riots in every major news paper, Internet forum…

It is shocking to read the horror stories & comments on the internet forums… news media etc.. Infact I told one of my friends last year to send his kid abroad for studies so that he can compete better in a global world, which I so regret today…

Why would we want our young kids to continue to go there & get scarred for life? Who are we kidding by hiding this issue & not discussing them…??

Yes, people who went in the past, had no choice as India was stuck in socialist policies. But today, post liberalization, there is NO need to go to the west… kids can make an excellent living here..

And why the hell should any of us learn any so called positives from them (which is the topic raised by OP), when they insult & abuse our country men????? Not to mention, there does not seem to be any positives in them… LOL !!

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka,

it looks like you don’t want to discuss about the white racism like most PIOs for reasons best known to you. So you seem happy to keep circling back to the same issue – you cannot blame the whites, because you are not perfect.

It doesn’t make sense to continue arguing… in circles..

For millions of Indians based on the innumerable posts on the internet, racism by whites is a big issue, so it is a valid issue for me.

If you have any points on this specific subject (without again & again circling back to Caste-ism, all are racist etc..), then I am happy to discuss.

LOL !

Cheers,

Dear JK,

To understand Racism one has to include Casteism too..only then the Indian mind can understand it.

The very fact when I bring Casteism up ..you are not comfortable shows that you only want to discuss one side of the coin.

So too bad..I like both sides of the coin to know its value.

Its like how some Non Brahmins complain about a Brahmin practising casteism when the NB themselves practice casteism with Dalits.

I feel if one discriminates..he should not complain that someone else treats him badly.

Once upon a time JK..I think you had mentioned in Forum that patients are dying at hospitals becos the doctors got in by quota system.

You made it sound as if only one type of community alone could be the best of doctors..which holds no basis becos doctors of all races and community treat patients all around the world and anyone can be negligent or make a mistake.Even the best of doctors have blundered.


Now are you telling me that was not a caste based remark?

I think you were pretty blatant.

So why complain now when someone else sees you differently?

Its the same cold dish just served by a different waiter!LOL

 

[sarang]

Racism exists everywhere, in india, USA, europe. middle east and far east and down under countries too. It is crude or polished depending on the area, social status and environment. One should respond to verbal abuse by returning in kind if it is not likely to lead to violence; many a time this approach gives results.

Denial of rights in work environment or public services is more serious, not very common, and has to be tackled with official help.

I have faced racist remarks in germany, france and uk on silly issues like asking for road directions, driving and talking in an alien tongue (perhaps a bit too loud) in groups. Generally, in cities no one cares; in small towns, people are very courteous or very rude.

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka,

Sorry, you are mixing issues here.

Caste-ism has been discussed, debated, fought over on this forum for a long time. This is no longer an issue in India. Show me 1 Brahmin who openly discriminates in India today? & lived to tell the tale… lol

so the caste-ism issue has been dealt in all its forms in India & in this forum. Issue closed.

However racism is a continuing saga, it has reached the peak in US/West now, hence it is very much a subject for discussion.

Yes, I totally & completely stand by my remark – millions are dying due to reservation doctors coming in Govt hospitals. While I strongly support that, caste based discrimination should be completely abolished, I absolutely do NOT support reservation.

Please tell me, what is the blatant caste based remark in this ??

In the west, anyone (B or NB) who has come up is only on merit basis, that’s why they have prospered.

Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

Hi Renuka,

Will you advise any of your relatives to go to a Govtdoctor for treatment in India OR ask them to go to a private well recognizeddoctor (B or NB doesnt matter) ?.

If not, then don’t the poor adivasis deserve better??

Did you see the horror in UP where Govt doctorsnegligence led to so many deaths ?? million more such cases if you have thetime to go through…

Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

Renuka - Myraising of the racism issue has nothing to do with loss of superiorityetc.. I am only reacting based on themillions of posts on the internet on this subject… and my discussions with manypeople.

Letsnot please confuse issues here by saying Brahmins are losing superiority, hencethey are reacting so negatively…

So areyou okay for a poor NB to be racially discriminated in the USA by the whites?, Are you saying, since NB has been used to caste discrimination, whynot suffer some more due to white racism ??????

OR Areyou saying, Brahmins should not raise this topic ?, others can raise this topic?

Can youplease explain why you are opposed to this topic being discussed here in thisforum ?

 

[renuka]

Renuka - Myraising of the racism issue has nothing to do with loss of superiorityetc.. I am only reacting based on themillions of posts on the internet on this subject… and my discussions with manypeople.

Letsnot please confuse issues here by saying Brahmins are losing superiority, hencethey are reacting so negatively…

So areyou okay for a poor NB to be racially discriminated in the USA by the whites?, Are you saying, since NB has been used to caste discrimination, whynot suffer some more due to white racism ??????

OR Areyou saying, Brahmins should not raise this topic ?, others can raise this topic?

Can youplease explain why you are opposed to this topic being discussed here in thisforum ?

Dear JK,

Its not about Brahmin or Non Brahmin here..its just that I wonder why when casteism has been a life style for most types of Indians (Brahmins and High caste Non Brahmins) why all the fuss??..at times its good to have a dose of the same medicine..it will be a new experience.

This is will at least awaken us to treat everyone alike finally.

Now this does not mean the White Man gets away with racism..he too should be dealt with in a legal manner. When humanity becomes civilized everything will be dealt in a legal manner. So that way racism will be at least be eradicated outwardly even though 100% eradication of any kind is not possible internally.

I am also aware off late that Western movies and talk shows are making fun of Indian food.

In fact a recent show I saw called Killer Karaoke ..bad smell was compared to a skunk that loves Indian food.

It was down right a racist remark.

And also in some movie I say Indian food like some Tikka Masala was being made fun of.

Then also in a sitcom a person said that he feels like squatting after eating Indian food.

So I get what you mean about racism.

 

[renuka]

Hi Renuka,

Will you advise any of your relatives to go to a Govtdoctor for treatment in India OR ask them to go to a private well recognizeddoctor (B or NB doesnt matter) ?.

If not, then don’t the poor adivasis deserve better??

Did you see the horror in UP where Govt doctorsnegligence led to so many deaths ?? million more such cases if you have thetime to go through…

Cheers,

Dear JK,

Out here our government hospitals are very good and even private hospitals refer cases they cant handle to government hospitals.

In India I am not going to judge any doctor just becos he works in a government hospital.If the hospital has the facilities and its clean enough than its Ok to seek treatment.

I dont fall for outward show.Many set ups just boast a state of art hospital with lots of deviant practices.

So it all depends on the facilities and the cleanliness.

The recent case in India where a sterilization procedure led to deaths seemed controversial and the doctor is experienced and he said he was provided low quality medicine which led to the death of patients.

I have assisted surgeons when I was in India for such rural sterilizing camps..its very basic with minimum facilities and no one died as far as I know.Its a simple procedure ..any experienced surgeon can do this but if the medication is low grade..then dont blame the doctor till the medical tribunal sits.

 

[sangom]

Hi Sangom,

I am only responding to the OP which said, what can we learn from the west?

My point is that we all need to be proud of our lineage, history & our contribution, so that our people can overcome the “inferiority complex”. This has nothing to do with gloating about ourselves…

I am sure you will agree a poor NB who goes to the USA should not face such racism from the whites as much as he should NOT face any casteism here in India. Lets address both the problems equally..

It does no good to hide this racism from our young boys & girls planning to immigrate to the USA/Europe/West in general

For the record, I do not believe this new govt candeliver on their sky high promises !

Cheers,

Shri Jaykay ji,

I am fully with you when you say, "For the record, I do not believe this new govt candeliver (sic) on their sky high promises !". But when it comes to racism in USA, I will point out the not-so-subtle racism even in the Arab countries (the Gulf), our people as also thousands of unemployed youth from poor countries like Pakistan, Thailand, Vietnam, Srilanka, etc., go there (to the Gulf or Saudi Arabia) well knowing that they will have to lead a slave-like life, not even as a second-class citizen in those countries. Our youngsters going to the US are also generally aware of the subtle racism there, but that it is not open or brazen. They do get adjusted to it and yet they find good earnings, a large extent of equality before law (unlike the arab countries) and many have lived there for three or more generations happily.

While you may be doing a good service by highlighting the racism in the US, my own humble feeling is that unless and until our population density is reduced to one-tenth its present state(!), many of our people will have to emigrate in search of greener pastures, and there is no point in our decrying it.

 

[auh]

To me, the answer is 'yes'.

According to my perception, Indians glorify riches and stigmatize poverty and menial labor, much more than the West.

So living abroad for sometime, the main virtue I acquired is *not to look down upon poverty, or menial labor, cultivate one's mind so as to be ready to take up a low-paying menial, blue-collar job as and when the situation arises and never, ever speak ill of those doing such jobs*.

I did do some blue-collar job while I lost my job following the post-9/11 depression such as filing, typing (data entry), etc. My good friend hailing from super-rich family in India did several babysitting jobs. We discuss even to this day, the difficulties we faced and how we empathize with those doing the same.

More importantly, foreign living has enabled me to have a very broad outlook on factors that should determine one's self-esteem and self-perception: namely integrity of character, truthfulness and empathy.

I do notice Indian movies, TV, etc cultivate some 'closed mindset' such as in glorifying the already successful and looking down upon/insulting those who are not doing that well. I think this should change first before even Mr. Modi's campaign of clean-India!

Observations?

The answer could be a little mixed.

As I mentioned earlier in one of the threads, different sets of Indians react differently to different ethnic groups, but submissiveness is the overriding norm (even among the educated). You cannot just rule out cultural discrimination outside India !

So while they can squirm and scrawl in a foreign land, they elevate themselves on a higher pedestal than the normal citizen in India. It is like how the self labelled "liberals" in this forum rant on endlessly about the branded "conservatives".

The warts in India appear to grow in size once we roll over in foreign dust; dust it may be, it is but gold to the hoarder. A case of the fox that fell into a jar of blue paint. We only have to wait for the rain.

 

[JR]

JR –

You unable to handle the truth like a lot of PIOs. There isa huge monster called racism in your dreamland & now everyone knows about. So you are unable to accept that the so called dream life is crumbling.

I was a supporter of the west till I learnt about the extent of racism which came out of the locker after the Ferguson riots. Renuka raised this issue with me for changing my opinion.

To me, if anyone insults my countrymen in such blatant fashion, my respect for them is over. This is called self respect, I will not go to any country that does not respect Indians.

Racism by whites against Indians has to be absolutely condemned,period – there are no excuses.

So please do not confuse bigotry with self respect, & standing up to racism. yes, everyone should vehemently oppose racism by whites, it is simply unacceptable...

If you are not aware, whites indulge in gossip, sarcasm, the assaults, everything.. sadly that is the mentality of the whites whom you are so staunchly defending…

Gosh, they are insulting your own country men, look at the internet forums, read the horror stories, every comment board on CNN, CBS,NBC, Huff post are filled with racist hatred against Indians, Blacks,Hispanics, etc… and you are defending them ??????

Have you forgotten, why Gandhi launched a national movement?, he was insulted by a white man in South Africa…

Sorry, I will never support any country insulting any of my country men… period.

Cheers,

Dear JayKay,

Guess what... you win after all that hard argument from you...

It is not that I am taking back my statements of what I said about present day Indians. But, I am inclined to think after all your arguments, that Indians became like this following the British rule...as Britishers are well known for hypocrisy.

When Devayani Kobragade was 'strip-searched' in USA, I was the one who spoke against it first in a different forum.

Incidents like Ms. Kobragade's case do still happen in the US, but those are very rare.

I have been employed in 5 companies as an IT worker so far, and only in one of them, and too from 1 person, I faced Racism. I also had lots of good friends who are White Americans - very nice, genuine people, the kind you will find very rare to come across...

Since I have few Indian friends, we've been inviting over my daughter's American friends from school for all of her birthday parties - they come over every year, many of them bring really generous gifts you would not expect from perfect strangers - as their parents are total strangers to us - they have no necessity to do this much - stil they do it, yes, to an Indian.

I would say, out of 10 people, you might come across 2 racists and 8 good people.

 

[biswa]

I think there is more racism in India than in the west. Almost every matrimonial ad has something to say about skin color.

 

[Raji Ram]

I think there is more racism in India than in the west. Almost every matrimonial ad has something to say about skin color.

Times are changing Biswa Sir. Dark skinned girls get fair husbands easily.

Brides have the upper hand now! :thumb:

 

[biswa]

That's why I did not mention gender. Even girls looking for fair boys is racism (particularly when the whole country is various shades of brown). What can be done? In spite of all these diatribes against racism, most Indians favor the "Caucasian look". Hard facts.

 

[JR]

That's why I did not mention gender. Even girls looking for fair boys is racism (particularly when the whole country is various shades of brown). What can be done? In spite of all these diatribes against racism, most Indians favor the "Caucasian look". Hard facts.

Very real observations! I second Biswaji's opinions.

 

[Jaykay767]

Just coz people here prefer fair skin groom or bride does not make us more racist than the whites. White racism is more strident, they verbally abuse the Indians, one cannot print those comments here. It is disgusting & terrible. None of the Indians indulge in any verbal racist abuses - I have not heard in any newspaper so far.

Please spend time on the internet & read the verbal abuses indulged by the whites against Indians & other minorities in the USA. While I don’t agree with any of Obama’s policies, & my view is right of right of the republicans (total privatization, zero govt), it is shocking the way he is abused for his race, ethnicity, religion, looks, etc.. frankly it is shocking that a black president could be so racially abused… & none of us knew about it till the ferguson crap blew up & all the world media picked up…

Is this the environment, you want the kids to live ?. is this the environment anyone wants to live ?

Infact please read my earlier post on racism – it is astonishing, why any Indian PIO should even put up with this nonsense !!

 

[Raji Ram]

Coming back to 'broadminded' outlook .....

At times, I wonder whether broadminded people don't care for anything precious! The first one is family values. I shall give an example.

Orthodox parents in my extended family; only son who is very fashion conscious; gets higher education abroad; hates brahmin way of

life; doesn't approve any girl chosen by the parents; ultimately wishes for an I R wedding! Knowing very well that all the 'oldies' will NOT

support him, he request ONLY his cousins through e-mail to supports him, since the girl's side needs approval from his family, to proceed.

I noticed that the cousins living abroad just sent a best wishes note to him and did not talk to their parents in India, where as the cousins

living in India immediately called and discussed this issue with their parents and tried to dissuade him from this I R wedding!

Does this mean that those living abroad are broadminded? :noidea:

 

[renuka]

Just coz people here prefer fair skin groom or bride does not make us more racist than the whites. White racism is more strident, they verbally abuse the Indians, one cannot print those comments here. It is disgusting & terrible. None of the Indians indulge in any verbal racist abuses - I have not heard in any newspaper so far.

Please spend time on the internet & read the verbal abuses indulged by the whites against Indians & other minorities in the USA. While I don’t agree with any of Obama’s policies, & my view is right of right of the republicans (total privatization, zero govt), it is shocking the way he is abused for his race, ethnicity, religion, looks, etc.. frankly it is shocking that a black president could be so racially abused… & none of us knew about it till the ferguson crap blew up & all the world media picked up…

Is this the environment, you want the kids to live ?. is this the environment anyone wants to live ?

Infact please read my earlier post on racism – it is astonishing, why any Indian PIO should even put up with this nonsense !!

Dear JK,

On internet everyone abuses anyone..Norties abusing Souties and Souties abusing Norties etc. Self proclaimed Dravidians abusing Aryans..self proclaimed Aryans abusing Dravidians.

Non Hindus abusing Hindus and Hindus abusing Non Hindus...the list can go on and on and on.


It is a wild wild world online!LOL

 

[krish44]

Coming back to 'broadminded' outlook .....

At times, I wonder whether broadminded people don't care for anything precious! The first one is family values. I shall give an example.

Orthodox parents in my extended family; only son who is very fashion conscious; gets higher education abroad; hates brahmin way of

life; doesn't approve any girl chosen by the parents; ultimately wishes for an I R wedding! Knowing very well that all the 'oldies' will NOT

support him, he request ONLY his cousins through e-mail to supports him, since the girl's side needs approval from his family, to proceed.

I noticed that the cousins living abroad just sent a best wishes note to him and did not talk to their parents in India, where as the cousins

living in India immediately called and discussed this issue with their parents and tried to dissuade him from this I R wedding!

Does this mean that those living abroad are broadminded? :noidea:

as a parent we care for our children . thats why we are broad minded.

we would like to allow them the freedom of choice which was denied to us when we were young.

living abroad or india, has precious little to do with this attitude.

some parents have a way of making a choice that suits them and not necessarily their children with different type of choices and priorities.

caste match is a liittle low in priority as far as youngsters are concerned. that , they would not like to become a hurdle in choosing someone who meets their

requirement otherwise.

parents should feel happy that their children are still consulting them instead of acting unilaterally.

it would be dignified if parents accept the choice of children as they ultimately have to live with their mates.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Krish Sir,

So you support that young man who wishes to proceed with an I R wedding, deliberately without the blessing of his parents?

 

[krish44]

Dear Krish Sir,

So you support that young man who wishes to proceed with an I R wedding, deliberately without the blessing of his parents?

well , if parents give their blessings , it would facilitate the wedding.

If the young man requires the support [I mean physical if not financial] of parents later , he would/should definitely take the concurrence.

one does not kick the ladder which one uses for climbing up in life.

I have both types those who got concurrence and some who did not in my extended family

normally not many go ahead without attempting to take concurrence of parents.

If they do not get concurrence , some young men might still go ahead and later on face the consequences which might mean disowning or something even worse like

physical harm /economic pressures from extended family. I have a young man in my family who was not forgiven until the passing away of the parent.Another got

away lightly as

the parents compromised after the birth of grandchild.

those who get concurrence also , there is no total acceptance as parents do not take responsibility for any problem between the son and spouse as they did not select

the girl in the first place

marriages where youngsters select directly have more chances of failure than success.

love between youngsters is a dicey business . it is not worth falling in love with a person if the objective is marriage.

love affairs should remain that nothing more. marriage is a different ball game. you require a different mindset and skills.

good lovers make poor husbands. let mothers select the girl , a young man should marry. mamma boys are normally happy in life.

mothers will find girls who are like them and take care of their boy after marriage,lol

 

[JR]

Coming back to 'broadminded' outlook .....

At times, I wonder whether broadminded people don't care for anything precious! The first one is family values. I shall give an example.

Orthodox parents in my extended family; only son who is very fashion conscious; gets higher education abroad; hates brahmin way of

life; doesn't approve any girl chosen by the parents; ultimately wishes for an I R wedding! Knowing very well that all the 'oldies' will NOT

support him, he request ONLY his cousins through e-mail to supports him, since the girl's side needs approval from his family, to proceed.

I noticed that the cousins living abroad just sent a best wishes note to him and did not talk to their parents in India, where as the cousins

living in India immediately called and discussed this issue with their parents and tried to dissuade him from this I R wedding!

Does this mean that those living abroad are broadminded? :noidea:

Dear Raji madam,

Ofcourse the lessons are open only for those ready to learn and accept. Not for those who are still closed-minded. I only praised the virtues of non-stigmatizing pressing issues such as poverty/divorce, etc, hiding one's intended marriage from own parents is not one of them!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Jayashree,

I was really surprised to know that none of the cousins living abroad were worried about the shattered parents!
They sent a best wishes note to that guy and invited him along with his wife to their sweet home! :welcome:

 

[JR]

Dear Jayashree,

I was really surprised to know that none of the cousins living abroad were worried about the shattered parents!
They sent a best wishes note to that guy and invited him along with his wife to their sweet home! :welcome:

That's really sad. I can feel for the parents.

 

[Jaykay767]

Good morning fellas… fine morning aint it !!. Sun rises always on the west & it shines brighter than anywhere. LOL !

Broad minded means giving up our family, parents, relatives, religion, culture, traditions & rituals. And it doesn’t stop here, kids brought up under Govt care, single parenting, drugs, sex, uncontrolled drinking, chain smoking weeds, affairs, sex partners, STDs, AIDS/HIV, depression, mental cases etc… are all part of the broad minded lifestyle..

In the west, anything & everything goes. They have no religious moorings, they have no interest, they just want to have a good life… marriages, divorces, extra marital affairs, incest affairs, everything is fine.. only thing in their mind is sex – 24x7, every TV show is about sex, most become psychos by the time they reach their 50s, 60s, etc…, LOL !!

Wow, what a shock… some of the Indians in India are refusing to learn from the great west & refusing to be become psychos… LOL !!. Indians in India are frogs in the well, & are supposed to be bigger racist than the whites. How can some people in this forum raise such issues ???, the entire world is enamored about the Caucasian crap ???? LOL !!

Whites are so so good, it is a land of milk & honey – oh la la la…. Most of them treat everyone so graciously, they never utter any bad words..

Our PIOs are treated as Gods by these whites, & they get up every day morn, dance, tweet to those in India, what a great life they have & heaven they are in … ah, some minor issues exist, I mean where does it not exist. Making fun of president and all is okay, maybe 2 in 10 that too - may be bad – don’t read too much la…

Come on folks, Obama is passing an immigration Bull, Lets all pack our bags now & become broad minded psychos by going to the great “la la la la land la…” LOL !!!

LOL !!