Discriminationn under the very nose of God.

[V.Balasubramani]

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Pranams to all.
Among the creation of God, human being is the most valued. To be born as a human is a blessing. Lot is said about desisting from material wealth and resort to the margams to seek salvation, moksha, etc Every minute mothers are giving birth to babies some at poorly maintained (name-sake)Hospitals and some at ultra-modern hitech rich Hospitals. The scenario changes during the life time of these babies. When we go to temple while poors are allowed to have Dharshan only from considerable distance, rich always have the privilage for close up dharshan. With technology and God given intellectual ability, can’t we create a unique system where there is no discremination among the rich and the poor atleast before the God. Creating such a unique system is something beyond our intellectual reach? Being born as rich and poor is everyone’s own Karma, but before the Almighty can’t we prove we are only humans, rest does not matter. Most of us have the knowledge of Kuchelur and Kuberan While God is said to be இறைவன் தூணிலும் இருக்கிறார் துரும்பிலும் இருக்கிறார், we go to temple, knowing the importance of worshiping God at temples is unique. There is also different opinion on this like the verse of Sivavakkia Siddhar: “Where are the temples? Where are the holy ponds? You loathsome people who worship the temples and ponds! Temples and ponds are in one’s mind. There is neither creation nor destruction.” Every coin has two sides and opinion certainly differ. Is it not nice to show progress to prove that we are more civilized in every aspect?. The authorities concerned are so busy and never seems to have time to think alike. Any solution?


P.S: Please excuse me if the subject was already discussed in length and breadth.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Balu Sir,

IMHO, ther is NO solution! Money talks!! :blah:

The rich have a nearer dharshan of God, iff they buy the proper ticket!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

The discrimination is created by man himself.

He who can pay, feels one up and uses money
as the key to open the doors closed to the others.

Big and famous temples have long since become commercial centers for raking money - under every pretext.

It is in the smaller temples that you can concentrate on God or sit for 5 minutes and meditate.

In the popular temples we get manhandled and driven around even after paying huge money. I myself never feel impressed by the big and famous temples. I find more happiness sitting and singing in my swami room, rather than take a tour, spend money to get a scanty darshan of the moorthi.

I went to Gruvaayoor and when my turn came the pujaari stood up for adjusting the garland and I could see only his V shaped upper body hiding the idol completely. I was told "poikko poikko" and nudged off.

In Palanivit is not only the god who is Mottai aandi but most of the rich bhaktas are made into motttai aandis by the agents and brokers. They come uncalled, attach themselves like leeches and drink blood in the form of money. Once my very suave and rich nephew went to Palani and got properly fleeced in every possible manner, in spite of our trying to protect him.

God does not discriminate. It is the man who discriminates in the name of God - the poor from the rich!

 

[V.Balasubramani]

RR Mam, ஆலயம் தொழுவது சாலமும் நன்று என்றுதான் அவ்வையார் சொன்னார் . காசேதான் கடவுளடா என்று சொன்னது யாரோ ?

 

[Raji Ram]

RR Mam, ஆலயம் தொழுவது சாலமும் நன்று என்றுதான் அவ்வையார் சொன்னார் . காசேதான் கடவுளடா என்று சொன்னது யாரோ ?

Dear Sir,

ஆலயம் தொழுவது சாலவும் நன்று - ஔவையார்

காசேதான் கடவுளடா - இக்கால மக்கள்! :decision:

 

[arunarani76]

it is indeed very sad to know that in the famous temples people with money & power get good darshan,archana/arti prasad etc the poor n not so rich
have to under go a lot of strain n wait in Q for long time to get just a fleeting darshan of the lord.

in spite of it they undergo all the trouble n visit these temples n a glimpse of the lord & GOD DOES BLESS N SHOWER HIS BLESSING ON THESE LESS FORTUNATE DEVOTEES

so we should not feel for these but do our best to see that we do help when we can the poor baktas

all the best god bless

 

[V.Balasubramani]

VR Madam, You are right that by sitting and praying at our pooja room, we taste the bliss.
But for reasons of paragaram, fulfilling vow, etc we go on pilgrimage to popular temples and stand in queue for hours together unminding the scorching sun and other discomforts for Dharshan of the Murthi. The priviliged section will avail the special dharshan thro’ High Class ticket. Adding fuel to fire, suddenly a VIP either a local politician, or a Minister, Judge, Celebrity, etc will turn up and bakthas who are very patiently waiting will be stopped abruptly. Visiting a temple and getting dharshan of Almighty God is something like a Paramapatham game where you will have ladder and snakes. Those who have High Class Ticket will avail ladder and the penniless will have to wait for hours together and have dharshan, if lucky enough, experienceing all hurdles.
சூரியனின் கதிர்கள் ஏழை, பணக்காரன் என்ற வேறுபாடு பார்ப்பதில்லை, வெண்ணிலவும், தென்றல் காற்றும் பாகுபாடு பார்ப்பதில்லை. அட ஆண்டவனே உன்னை தரிசிப்பதற்கு பக்தியும், மனமும் இருந்தால் மட்டும் போதாது, பணமும் கரக்கிரார்களே என்னத்தை சொல்ல!!

 

[sangom]

VR Madam, You are right that by sitting and praying at our pooja room, we taste the bliss.
But for reasons of paragaram, fulfilling vow, etc we go on pilgrimage to popular temples and stand in queue for hours together unminding the scorching sun and other discomforts for Dharshan of the Murthi. The priviliged section will avail the special dharshan thro’ High Class ticket. Adding fuel to fire, suddenly a VIP either a local politician, or a Minister, Judge, Celebrity, etc will turn up and bakthas who are very patiently waiting will be stopped abruptly. Visiting a temple and getting dharshan of Almighty God is something like a Paramapatham game where you will have ladder and snakes. Those who have High Class Ticket will avail ladder and the penniless will have to wait for hours together and have dharshan, if lucky enough, experienceing all hurdles.
சூரியனின் கதிர்கள் ஏழை, பணக்காரன் என்ற வேறுபாடு பார்ப்பதில்லை, வெண்ணிலவும், தென்றல் காற்றும் பாகுபாடு பார்ப்பதில்லை. அட ஆண்டவனே உன்னை தரிசிப்பதற்கு பக்தியும், மனமும் இருந்தால் மட்டும் போதாது, பணமும் கரக்கிரார்களே என்னத்தை சொல்ல!!

Shri Balasubramani,

If you have still not realized/understood the futility in going to temples, taking dip in sacred ponds,rivers,etc., and trying to find "GOD" through close-quarter-vision of the decorated idols in the temples, etc., then even that God cannot help you; this is the message that the temple-gods are trying to tell you because the stone idols cannot speak, nor hear.

It is not true that you cannot have darshan of your god if you have only bhakti and mind; what you want is equality with the rich who have been made rich by the very same god. So, you also make all efforts to become richer and then you will be able to see the god's idol from very close quarters and even touch it, possibly.

That is why the cinema song says —
"இருக்கும் இடத்தைவிட்டு இல்லாத இடம் தேடி எங்கெங்கோ அலைகின்றார் ஞானத்தங்கமே
அவர் ஏதும் அறியாரடி ஞானத்தங்கமே"

God is within you, within each one of the living beings. Try to find him at your closest quarters - within yourself.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Shri Balasubramani,

If you have still not realized/understood the futility in going to temples, taking dip in sacred ponds,rivers,etc., and trying to find "GOD" through close-quarter-vision of the decorated idols in the temples, etc., then even that God cannot help you; this is the message that the temple-gods are trying to tell you because the stone idols cannot speak, nor hear.

It is not true that you cannot have darshan of your god if you have only bhakti and mind; what you want is equality with the rich who have been made rich by the very same god. So, you also make all efforts to become richer and then you will be able to see the god's idol from very close quarters and even touch it, possibly.

That is why the cinema song says —
"இருக்கும் இடத்தைவிட்டு இல்லாத இடம் தேடி எங்கெங்கோ அலைகின்றார் ஞானத்தங்கமே
அவர் ஏதும் அறியாரடி ஞானத்தங்கமே"

God is within you, within each one of the living beings. Try to find him at your closest quarters - within yourself.

Sri Sangom Ji,
I have already mentioned the following Sivavakkiar Siddhar padal in my earlier posting, which is self explanatory:
நட்ட கல்லை தெய்வம் என்று
நாலு புஷ்பம் சாத்தியே
சுற்றிவந்து மொணமொணன்று சொல்லும் மந்திரம் ஏதடா!
நட்ட கல்லும் பேசுமோ..நாதன் உள்ளிருக்கையில்!
சுட்ட சட்டி சட்டுவம் கறிச்சுவை அறியுமோ!

But such realisation comes only at the later stage of my life. And going to the temple, praying the Almighty on important days is an inborn thing and I believe such habit will continue till I breath my lost.

 

[sangom]

Sri Sangom Ji,
I have already mentioned the following Sivavakkiar Siddhar padal in my earlier posting, which is self explanatory:
நட்ட கல்லை தெய்வம் என்று
நாலு புஷ்பம் சாத்தியே
சுற்றிவந்து மொணமொணன்று சொல்லும் மந்திரம் ஏதடா!
நட்ட கல்லும் பேசுமோ..நாதன் உள்ளிருக்கையில்!
சுட்ட சட்டி சட்டுவம் கறிச்சுவை அறியுமோ!

But such realisation comes only at the later stage of my life. And going to the temple, praying the Almighty on important days is an inborn thing and I believe such habit will continue till I breath my lost.

Dear Shri Balasubramani,

If you are sure that your habit (of going to the temple, praying the Almighty on important days) will continue till you breathe your last, it means then that Siva vAkkiyar's words have and will have no effect whatsoever on you. Surprising!!

I suggest that you consider the truth hidden in such verses and think about them also. If not how such realization can come even at a later stage of your life?

Secondly, if the point is that you want to go to temple to find your Almighty, why not select a not-famous temple where few people go, in some rural area/suburbs, so that you won't have the problem raised in the OP?

If you feel that only a famous swami is powerful and can be Almighty, are you not doing some kind of hero worship and not really praying to Almighty?

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Shri Balasubramani,

If you are sure that your habit (of going to the temple, praying the Almighty on important days) will continue till you breathe your last, it means then that Siva vAkkiyar's words have and will have no effect whatsoever on you. Surprising!!

I suggest that you consider the truth hidden in such verses and think about them also. If not how such realization can come even at a later stage of your life?

Secondly, if the point is that you want to go to temple to find your Almighty, why not select a not-famous temple where few people go, in some rural area/suburbs, so that you won't have the problem raised in the OP?

If you feel that only a famous swami is powerful and can be Almighty, are you not doing some kind of hero worship and not really praying to Almighty?

sangom,

personally, i go to kapali temple, do not pay anything for archanai, and sit in the arena, and soak in the atmosphere. i avoid fridays and any other time of crowds. except now, i have a desire to visit the temple for one session of annual arupathi moovar and ther.

same goes here in toronto, where we visit as a family, on sunday afternoons, when there is hardly anybody in the temple. on festival days, the temple is crowded, nowadays almost all sri lankans, as the tambrams have once again, found a need to be exclusive, and have gone to patronize another temple. which incidentally was built out of corruption, and is privately managed. enough said.

when i was young, we never went to temples. but then my dad got into his namesake God venkatachalapathi, though at the urgings of the marwadis with whom he did business i think. he only had sundays to spare, and he would leave early morning by bus from madras, pay the needful money to bypass all the queues, have a darisanam, and be back the same night. thoroughly satisfied, and oblivious to my arguements, that a true darshan, deserves some pain for the gain

i have heard that today sri rangam is almost as popular in tamil nadu as thirupathi, and just as strata driven ie the more money you shell out, the quicker you witness the lord. so be it. not for me, but for many, vaishnavaites and smarthas, this appears to be ok.

i would still find peace at any odd wayside temple. the last visit to chennai, i went to the one at maduravoil, outside of chennai. one of our own members is a prominent trustee there. i found it devoid of any pretensions, and the overall atmosphere so spiritual, that i was reluctant to leave it. all this, right in the middle of thiruvottiyur high road, which makes it, all the more wonderful.!!

 

[vishviyer]

​Respects to all,

In my younger days I used to think why go to temple when God is within you. Why go on specific days and times like say, Vaikasi Visakam, Aadi Krithikai etc., when you can have peaceful darshan at other times.

Now I have come to this realization. While it is physically inconvenient to go in a crowd and be pushed around, the impact of that darshan at that specific time is far more than other times. How to have darshan and in which line you stand is an individual prefence. And that is a measure of population explosion and one's own desire for personal comforts. However much one stays at home and meditates, one cannot achieve the same effect as one would in a temple. The same applies to a spiritual journey with the blessings of a Guru like say Mahaperiyava.

I would still go to Sabarimalai rather than another Ayyappa temple, I would still move to Tamilnadu to be in the presence of the multitude of divine temples rather be in the US - just waiting to retire, that's all.

Just think that you have to go through the physical discomfort because of karmic influence.

Thus let us separate the physical discomforts from the effect of visiting temples that are power houses to help us move on in our life journey. Let us stay focused.

Asatho Ma Sath Gamaya (From untruth to truth)
Thamaso Ma Jyothir Gamaya (From darkness to brightness)
Mrithyor Ma Amritham Gamaya (From mortality to immortality)

Vish Iyer MS FRCS

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Sangom Sir,

Whether the real realization comes are not, I have heard some elderly persons, who are unable to go out

on their own, usually say, 'KadavuL namakkuLLEyE irukAr!' :angel:

 

[Raji Ram]

I do not go to temple every day. And I go to the Shakthi Vinayakar temple in our colony ONLY on uncrowded days!
I find peace only then. On crowded days, hearing :gossip: can not be avoided, with lots of mAmis around! :grouphug:

P.S: Somehow, gossiping is an inborn habit for many women. They can't stop while they are in temples,

concert halls and even in hospitals!

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Dear Shri Balasubramani,

If you are sure that your habit (of going to the temple, praying the Almighty on important days) will continue till you breathe your last, it means then that Siva vAkkiyar's words have and will have no effect whatsoever on you. Surprising!!

I suggest that you consider the truth hidden in such verses and think about them also. If not how such realization can come even at a later stage of your life?

Secondly, if the point is that you want to go to temple to find your Almighty, why not select a not-famous temple where few people go, in some rural area/suburbs, so that you won't have the problem raised in the OP?

If you feel that only a famous swami is powerful and can be Almighty, are you not doing some kind of hero worship and not really praying to Almighty?

Sri Sangam Ji,
You are kindling my thoughts Sir. I fervently believe that இறைவன் மனதில் இருக்கிறார், கோவிலில் இருக்கிறார், தூணிலும் இருக்கிறார், துரும்பிலும் இருக்கிறார்.
I do nightya pooja in our Pooja Room. Do visit Sri Kailasanadhar temple located near my place on Pradhosham days to chant Sri Rudhram where there will be hardly twenty to twenty five devotees on such important day. Beside this, during visit to famous temples the agony one Bhaktha experiences is inexplicable. The agony of physical hardships, prevailing corruption, thefts, pilferages, etc etc cannot be simply wiped out. Why such evil things at the abode of the Almighty God? Since we opt for this, is it necessary to pay the price? Can’t we evolve a better system to improve the situation. Most may argue it is impossible. But we have studied about great men who have made impossible things possible. I believe, still believe in that, being the Member of this Forum which is a bundle of Veterans, Super Moderator, etc who are very erudite.
Good day.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Balu Sir,

I understand your anguish! Corruption is deep rooted in India and till the politicians and black money is around,

nothing is going to change for the better. The corrupt leaders are shown 'poorNa kumba' welcome in famous temples

and God is silently watching all these. The veterans in our forum are only 'writers'. To achieve something practical is

almost impossible for them. :ballchain:

 

[Raji Ram]

Don't we know that such gifts are NOT bought with the money earned by fair means?

Photo courtesy: Google images.

Source: ttd news

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

VR Madam, You are right that by sitting and praying at our pooja room, we taste the bliss.
But for reasons of paragaram, fulfilling vow, etc we go on pilgrimage to popular temples and stand in queue for hours together unminding the scorching sun and other discomforts for Dharshan of the Murthi. The priviliged section will avail the special dharshan thro’ High Class ticket. Adding fuel to fire, suddenly a VIP either a local politician, or a Minister, Judge, Celebrity, etc will turn up and bakthas who are very patiently waiting will be stopped abruptly. Visiting a temple and getting dharshan of Almighty God is something like a Paramapatham game where you will have ladder and snakes. Those who have High Class Ticket will avail ladder and the penniless will have to wait for hours together and have dharshan, if lucky enough, experienceing all hurdles.
சூரியனின் கதிர்கள் ஏழை, பணக்காரன் என்ற வேறுபாடு பார்ப்பதில்லை, வெண்ணிலவும், தென்றல் காற்றும் பாகுபாடு பார்ப்பதில்லை. அட ஆண்டவனே உன்னை தரிசிப்பதற்கு பக்தியும், மனமும் இருந்தால் மட்டும் போதாது, பணமும் கரக்கிரார்களே என்னத்தை சொல்ல!!

I can give a useful hint sir, the one I usually follow.

Whenever I take a vow, it will be something

I can do by myself, in my own home, within own means,

and keeping in mind my own physical limitations.

(I can't climb steps, walk long distances, stand in serpentine Q etc)

So it will be paaraayanam of a famous work like Sundara kaandam,

Full Ramayanam, Devi mahatmyam, Sriman naaraayaneeyam etc)

to be completed in a fixed time and it usually takes me about

2+ hours per day to do that.

I need not look for a travel companion, nor book tickets, nor spend the

hare earned money, nor get distracted by the crowd and the nudging and

"jeragandi" and "poikko!" but BE at peace all the time.

I think of God and ONLY GOD and complete my vow in the silence and

serenity of my own pooja room. Worship can be at different levels, of

mind, of words, of thoughts and of actions.

Since I chant loud enough to be heard by myself, I engage my eyes, my

tongue, my ears and my mind in these vows.

My vows have been very successful always. :hail:...:angel:

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Ref # 15.



853a. உண்டார் மேனி கண்டால் தெரியும்.

853b. Prosperity is prominent.

http://veenaaramani.wordpress.com/east-meets-west/quotes-851-to-860/

---

 

[V.Balasubramani]

I can give a useful hint sir, the one I usually follow. Whenever I take a vow, it will be something I can do by myself, in my own home, within own means,and keeping in mind my own physical limitations.(I can't climb steps, walk long distances, stand in serpentine Q etc)So it will be paaraayanam of a famous work like Sundara kaandam, Full Ramayanam, Devi mahatmyam, Sriman naaraayaneeyam etc)to be completed in a fixed time and it usually takes me about 2+ hours per day to do that. I need not look for a travel companion, nor book tickets, nor spend the hare earned money, nor get distracted by the crowd and the nudging and "jeragandi" and "poikko!" but BE at peace all the time.I think of God and ONLY GOD and complete my vow in the silence and serenity of my own pooja room. Worship can be at different levels, of mind, of words, of thoughts and of actions.Since I chant loud enough to be heard by myself, I engage my eyes, my tongue, my ears and my mind in these vows.My vows have been very successful always. :hail:...:angel:

VR Madam, Your pratice of worship appears to be quite simple and practical. IMHO Worshiping is an act of speaking to the Almight God. We can thank him for the blessings. We can express our grievance and request for redressing the same. I believe that our prayers are always answered. Only thing is we need to wait for our turn. We need to taste the love of God. I think I am blessed in lot of ways one being my association with the Forum. Thank God.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Dear Balu Sir,The veterans in our forum are only 'writers'. To achieve something practical is almost impossible for them. :ballchain:

RR Madam, The first sentence is quite damaging. While I admire at all the Veterans, your defining them as mere 'writers' is not acceptable for me. I have reverence for everyone. Probably it may be your opinion. As for the Second sentence, I admit that it is quite impossible. But how Great people like Raja Ram Mohan Rai fought against Sati practice and won!! Really great people whom we forget.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom Sir,

Whether the real realization comes are not, I have heard some elderly persons, who are unable to go out

on their own, usually say, 'KadavuL namakkuLLEyE irukAr!' :angel:

Is there a small barb in the above? I hope not.

I cannot speak for others, but I knew of my senior officer's father, a man aged 80+ who did not even come to the vASal to witness the procession of the local deity on capparam. My officer used to say that his father (a tabra with kuDumi, panchakaccham, vibhoothi and all that and with a majestic look) was well-versed in our scriptures through gurukulam and had also read a lot about our religion, vedanta and so on.

Perhaps that venerable old man was much beyond my stage. I now understand rationally (as rationally as 5 x 5 =25) that the god as taught to us by religion is but a mirage. Hence there is no point in going to temples. I also understand, somewhat like a school lesson, that god is the very thing which makes us as live beings out of this basically inanimate and perishable body. I personally feel "realizing god", "brahmajnAnam", "brahmAnandam" etc., are humanly unreealizable.

Just my pov please.

 

[sangom]

Dear Balu Sir,

I understand your anguish! Corruption is deep rooted in India and till the politicians and black money is around,

nothing is going to change for the better. The corrupt leaders are shown 'poorNa kumba' welcome in famous temples

and God is silently watching all these. The veterans in our forum are only 'writers'. To achieve something practical is

almost impossible for them. :ballchain:

Corruption is not only with the politicians but with 99% of the population (leave aside very small kids who are still innocent). I say this is caused by our religion. And since the people are very much into religion whether sincerely or only sham, they all practice corruption in one way or another. Brahmins are no exception to this; those who successfully practice large-scale corruption can and do become political leaders or religious gurus/babas. If we want to be a corruption-free nation, we will have to replace bhakti with fear of god and retribution, in the minds of the people but, somehow, bhakti has become the in-thing, especially in the last 100 or 200 years and hence only a fiendish regime like the Taliban will possibly bring back "fear of retribution" into the minds of the people. But a slow beginning seems to be there (?Taliban? diktat in Uttar Pradesh: 100 whips for night wedding | Deccan Chronicle).

 

[sangom]

RR Madam, The first sentence is quite damaging. While I admire at all the Veterans, your defining them as mere 'writers' is not acceptable for me. I have reverence for everyone. Probably it may be your opinion. As for the Second sentence, I admit that it is quite impossible. But how Great people like Raja Ram Mohan Rai fought against Sati practice and won!! Really great people whom we forget.

Dear Shri VB,

Raja Rammohun Roy fought for changing a certain social custom with the then colonial masters viz., the British who banned Sati practice and this was implemented truly. But the malpractices in/of the temples cannot be fought because people like you will be hard put if there is a ban on temple going.

A hotel's business ends when customers stop visiting it. Sadly, but honestly, the position of temples is no different; if there is no visitor (customer), the temple goes down. But will the gullible public allow this to happen? That is the crucial question.

 

[Raji Ram]

Is there a small barb in the above? I hope not............

Dear Sangom Sir,

Not at all. I am writing about the elderly persons I see around me and NOT anyone in our forum.

Hope I am clear.