Divorce rearing its ugly head among Tambrahms

[Raji Ram]

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My answers in blue

disputes in kitchen would be a silly reason for families to break up.

Not really silly sometimes! One working m i l eats out three times a day and wanted her d i l to prepare

her own food, if she wanted home food. It ended up in a divorce because the guy is ammA kOndu!

a few career women, not all, would prefer to abstain from kitchen.

Krish Sir writes often that he has a cook! May be, he wants all career women to keep away from kitchen !

most women, including the career ones, love kitchen.

Depends. If appreciated by husband, they love the kitchen; otherwise it IS only a duty! :sad:

we have numerous such women-colleagues who love to bring variety of cuisines they have tried eager to get our feedback.

We females NEED appreciation for the food we prepare.

:gossip: I cook better, when my siblings visit me - they all appreciate my short cut method of tasty cooking! :thumb:

a conditioned and programmed mindset reluctant to adapt to changes and to adjust, breaks up families.

male-chauvinism is also another cause for divorce.

Agreed! Ego clash + male-chauvinism are the main causes of divorce.

 

[Raji Ram]

Only a few women are good at multi tasking! I really miss Renu in this thread. She is one of the best women

in multi tasking and manages her job and home very well, without any domestic help, living in Malaysia. :thumb:

:yo: to her.

 

[krish44]

My answers in blue

Some career women say that they are good at multi tasking. I do not buy this theory. These women end up not doing full justice to either career related work and cooking

home.Most such types pass some home burdens to husbands or outsource food once or twice a week, have some part time help at least to wash the dishes.Some claim that

they are working from home at workplace and take the day off instead.These women are the most compromised and end up giving up one of the two-career or house work.

2. One must love cooking to turn out a good meal. If one thinks it is only a duty, then it shows in end product.Appreciation can artificially boost women who cook.But the task itself is a bit of drudgery

3. It is mostly women in middle class who file for divorce. They try upsetting an entrenched order where male has the upper hand and get hurt in the process.But a

vengeful female can cause a lot of damage -using 498A to fix husband and inlaws, besides claiming huge amounts as alimony.Marriage as an institution has ceased to

matter to most educated well off males and females. In most cases it is the individual aspirations and fulfilling them at all costs.This open calls for gender equality and

justice is hurting women more than men.

 

[Raji Ram]

Some career women say that they are good at multi tasking. I do not buy this theory. These women end up not doing full justice to either career related work and cooking ........

Hmm .. You are YET to see efficient women!

 

[krish44]

Hmm .. You are YET to see efficient women!

Thank God for that.

I am at peace with the women around me.

They are wonderful if not efficient.

Who wants efficient women?

They would be a nuisance .

 

[Raji Ram]

The outlook of life for the new generation has changed a lot. Most of them think this way:

Prepare yummy food = Being an unpaid cook for the family.

Washing clothes = Being an unpaid dhobhi for the family.

Driving the car = Being an unpaid chauffeur for the family.

Cleaning the kitchen = Being an unpaid servant for the family.

Keeping parents in law in the same house = Intrusion of privacy!

Moral: ONLY if caring and sharing is there between the couple, the marriage will survive.

 

[krish44]

My upvote for the above.

Parents in law have abdicated their role in new india.

They are not ready to cook,wash clothes, maintain the kitchen or look after the children of their son or daughter.

So career girls without inlaws support are in soup.

They try to put their husbands to work on some of the above jobs.

Things go on with fights and shouts in every home on daily basis.

 

[Raji Ram]

Almost all the Ambis settled abroad are ABLE to help in the daily chores. In laws can't stay for ever (in the U S of A), unless they

get a green card. Don't know about other countries. Those who live in India still consider doing household chores as menial job,

meant ONLY for females and end up fighting. It is necessary for the males to learn what have been branded as 'female jobs' by

the older generations. When women go for work, drive the vehicle, earn money for the family, why NOT men render their helping

hand at home? Ladies of my generation have to grin and bear the male chauvinism, because we are USED to it. :lol:

 

[Raji Ram]

My upvote for the above. .

:yo:

 

[krish44]

Indian work place for women is not like the US. The working hours are erratic. The rules are a combination of western in terms of output and indian in terms of behaviour of

seniors towards juniors. Women do not have income parity in all jobs including IT. They get discriminated in work place without redressal mechanisms in place. Once the girls

are married ,they are automatically sidelined , are not considered for good assignments if they get pregnant. Also most employers hold a grudge that they get maternity

leave for a few months.Most girls prefer to work from home more than once a week and many times drop out unable to put up with stressful work place.

The conditions being what they are how can they be expected to combine career with running of homes.

Indian problems can have only indian solutions.

India has plentiful women who are semi educated and less skilled. They can become add on to existing homes of well off career women as cooks, part time helps ,baby

sitters. They are available for a pittance if one compares with western countries. Why not employ them instead of bothering husbands, inlaws and misusing them for house

work as unpaid helps?.

 

[krish44]

Then there is something called indian culture. Young Women being forced into respecting the seniors[inlaws] by abject surrender, falling at their feet, forced to maintain

temples home and perform ritualistic worship to multiple Gods and goddesses, Temple going routine on fridays.So a way of living besides dressing is thrust on them. A

paternalistic order stifles them and makes them conform to ways that older women in the family have observed.

This conflict of the old and traditional home life and modern work life is deadly combination taking a toll on career women

Most would like to escape to US where there there is better life-work balance

 

[Raji Ram]

There is something called culture, Krish Sir, which parents have taught us and we would like our children to follow. Daily prayers

and visits to temples are NOT criminal activities to keep away! They are to be followed to be a good human. If you are against even

prayer to Gods and Goddesses and respecting elders, then I give up the argument! :tape:

FYI, many girls in my family do the daily prayer with electric lamps and some neivEdhyam like milk and fruits. . As I said, it is all

mind set and does not vary in whichever part of the globe one lives!

There are many mAmAs in India, who don't care to do the sandhya vandhanam or wear the sacred thread or do srAddham for parents! :sad:

 

[krish44]

Prayers to Gods and Goddesses , visiting temples , performing sandhyavandanam , wearing or changing thread or death rituals are issues youngsters can take a call

themselves as they are mature enough. Seniors using it as a weapon to fix youngsters and pulling them up for non observance smacks of authoritarianism.

We should leave everyone to find his own God if he is a believer . no harm if he is agnostic or atheist.Religion is personal to everyone. Why force and make it a noisy group

activity with loud speakers blaring and disturbing peace.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

There is something called culture, Krish Sir, which parents have taught us and we would like our children to follow. Daily prayers

and visits to temples are NOT criminal activities to keep away! They are to be followed to be a good human. If you are against even

prayer to Gods and Goddesses and respecting elders, then I give up the argument! :tape:

FYI, many girls in my family do the daily prayer with electric lamps and some neivEdhyam like milk and fruits. . As I said, it is all

mind set and does not vary in whichever part of the globe one lives!

There are many mAmAs in India, who don't care to do the sandhya vandhanam or wear the sacred thread or do srAddham for parents! :sad:

madam,

are we following the culture our forefathers of ten centuries ago followed? doesn't culture change gradually with generations passing? is it not hypocrisy to impose our culture on our progeny under the pretext of maintaining our culture?

the world of our children is many times larger than ours. they have too many intellectual food to broaden their thinking. they don't want to live in a shell like we did. they have too much exposure. they are being taught to question everything and not take anything for granted just because forefathers observed or followed something. they are not living in agraharams like we did. they are living in apartments, in flats, in a multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, multi-linguistic and a lot of multi-this and multi-that environment. they play with children of multiple backgrounds unlike us. they think beyond worshipping gods and goddesses and respecting elders. they more than worship gods and more than respect elders, barring a few exceptions who prove the rule.

we need to change our mindset. it is our mind which is conditioned and programmed to think in a narrow way. we, and not them, need to change our mentality and mindset. else we can witness more divorces among tbs.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Gnanam,

I strongly believe that children should be molded by the parents. There is a saying 'aindhil vaLaiyAdhadhu aimbadhil vaLaiyumA?'

Children learn faster than we can imagine. Unless guided properly, they will go astray. I am sure about this. People can argue that

parents are 'forcing' children to pray or respect elders. The basic culture has to be taught while they are young. When they grow

older, they will learn 'all' by themselves. Till then, it is the parents who need to teach the children.

It is sad fact that many parents are NOT fit to be role models to their children.

I don't want to write any more because I think this is MORE than enough!

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Dear Gnanam,

I strongly believe that children should be molded by the parents. There is a saying 'aindhil vaLaiyAdhadhu aimbadhil vaLaiyumA?'

Children learn faster than we can imagine. Unless guided properly, they will go astray. I am sure about this. People can argue that

parents are 'forcing' children to pray or respect elders. The basic culture has to be taught while they are young. When they grow

older, they will learn 'all' by themselves. Till then, it is the parents who need to teach the children.

It is sad fact that many parents are NOT fit to be role models to their children.

I don't want to write any more because I think this is MORE than enough!

madam,

I can't agree more on this that parents need to mould children. in fact TBs are doing it no doubt. but I think we have stretched it excessively to impose on them certain outdated, obsolete practices which are of no relevance to their times nor to their environs.

I think we are expecting too much from them when it comes to being conservative, observing austere severities. it is just not there in their dictionary. they don't want them to be in their life.

it is good to guide them. indeed we must guide our children. who else will guide. but in the pretext of guidance we are trying to thrust in them certain things they don't relish.

we expect them to imitate us instead of expecting them to emulate us.

we expect them to obey us instead of setting an example and good precedent to follow us as role models.

we are trying to mold them externally instead of molding their character and conduct.

 

[prasad1]

madam,

I can't agree more on this that parents need to mould children. in fact TBs are doing it no doubt. but I think we have stretched it excessively to impose on them certain outdated, obsolete practices which are of no relevance to their times nor to their environs.

I think we are expecting too much from them when it comes to being conservative, observing austere severities. it is just not there in their dictionary. they don't want them to be in their life.

it is good to guide them. indeed we must guide our children. who else will guide. but in the pretext of guidance we are trying to thrust in them certain things they don't relish.

we expect them to imitate us instead of expecting them to emulate us.

we expect them to obey us instead of setting an example and good precedent to follow us as role models.


we are trying to mold them externally instead of molding their character and conduct.

I agree with you.
Well written post. Well said.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

I agree with you.
Well written post. Well said.

Thank you sir!

 

[krish44]

Well will all this reduce divorces among TBs ?

Pious well meaning posts are just that and nothing more.

Affluence and aspirations for good living have given rise to individualism,need for private space for doing their own things.

Joint families ,for that matter nuclear families are under strain and are getting further subdivided.

There are many married who are single mentally and physically sharing nothing except the roof for economy , safety and society.

They present a normal front to society at large.

If one digs further, the unpleasant skeletons come out of every closet.lol

 

[tbs]

madam,

I can't agree more on this that parents need to mould children. in fact TBs are doing it no doubt. but I think we have stretched it excessively to impose on them certain outdated, obsolete practices which are of no relevance to their times nor to their environs.

I think we are expecting too much from them when it comes to being conservative, observing austere severities. it is just not there in their dictionary. they don't want them to be in their life.

it is good to guide them. indeed we must guide our children. who else will guide. but in the pretext of guidance we are trying to thrust in them certain things they don't relish.

we expect them to imitate us instead of expecting them to emulate us.

we expect them to obey us instead of setting an example and good precedent to follow us as role models.

we are trying to mold them externally instead of molding their character and conduct.

hi

i agreed sir...well said...

 

[biswa]

Ooh, unpopular truths!

Well will all this reduce divorces among TBs ?

Pious well meaning posts are just that and nothing more.

Affluence and aspirations for good living have given rise to individualism,need for private space for doing their own things.

Joint families ,for that matter nuclear families are under strain and are getting further subdivided.

There are many married who are single mentally and physically sharing nothing except the roof for economy , safety and society.

They present a normal front to society at large.

If one digs further, the unpleasant skeletons come out of every closet.lol

 

[Krishnan.vp]

Hello..

I only visited this forum to update my thread "My Pursuit" in the following link.

https://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=34648

Unfortunately, I found that the thread was closed and I dont have a clue why this is the case. So I created a new thread "My pursuit 2" in which I was seeking help from the admin or atleast clarification on why my thread was closed. Unfortunately, till now my post has not been published. Therefore, I spent time reading all your posts from the first page to the current 15th.

Now.

I am a middle-aged Tamil Brahmin man who is still single and have travelled the world for work and education. Therefore, I have views of my own.. I am sharing some of them here.

Part 1 - Timing of marriage :

In our earlier generations, the kids were married by the age of 16-18 and so, their first love was essentially their partner. This made it soooo much easier to adjust to each other since you truly loved your counterpart. I hope all of you will agree that you would have taken better care of, or, loved more, the person who was your first love which happened in your teenage if you had been married to them. But this is not the case with todays generation, we have all had our first love and first crush on someone else. Someone we all lost in the mists of time. Now we are trying to create an attachment to another person out of nowhere in the name of marriage.

This is what one of my seniors suggested to me when I was discussing with him about marriage these days..

he said ..

" Thennan kanna eduthu transplant panni natta adhu kudumbathoda serndhu valarum.. ana panamaratha eduthu transplant panni vecha adhu enga kudumbathoda valarum? pattu thaan pogum."

basically if you transplant a budding tender coconut plant, it will grow along with the other plants.. but if you try to transplant a palm tree, it will only die and also cause soil disruption all around it when it falls down.


I am not campaigning for child marriage here. I am merely stating the intelligence of our earlier generations.

2. Gender Equality :

There was some mention of gender equality also in the preceding pages.. There was an argument in the thread which correlated men not wanting to do kitchen work to male chauvinism. I personally believe that this had me stupified by the asininity of the argument. I believe that current families have quite happily employed a cook or a utensil washing person to take care of these chores if the wife is working. But the wife fighting simply because of the male not helping with the kitchen and utensils is the problem of the wife. A helper should be employed if there is a need. What is the lady trying to prove by forcing the husband to do what she herself is unable to do? Isn't the problem due to the fact that both are working? Or is the argument for the case where the husband is sitting at home and the wife is a cost accountant?

I believe it is only in India that women have started to not want to do household work. They think it is menial. This culture which is developing only in india is not really the 'gender equality' that other women across the world are fighting for. ' Gender equality ' is umpteen times more delicate that this. I have personally seen scores of white american women who do kitchen work and take care of kids with pride.

Irrespective, I have also lived with indian couples with kids where both the parents worked as they had to pay for kids education in a foreign country. My current australian roommates are a case to site. The lady irrespective of whether she works or not takes it upon herself to cook and the husband also partakes in the cooking activities when he comes early enough from work.

I am also aware of what some had mentioned earlier that the ambis nowadays have started to silently clean utensils an change diapers without a whimper so that the marriage is without problems. This should not be the case as the answer to the problem should be found rather than suppressing the problem like the d i ls of yesteryears. And the answer to the problem is a paid kitchen helper or cook.

So, my opinion on the topic of gender equality, sharing of work and such things (with specific relation to current divorce scenarios) is that the current crop of indian females are more chauvinistic than even the so called male chauvinists. This is the reason for the jump in divorce rates.


3. Girls Parents:

Sweet Dear Lord Almighty... Are the parents of todays girls stuck-up or what?

I am not even going to try to explain the situations that I have been in during the course of my bride hunting. It is so damn puke-inducing combined with the girls heavy-handed attitudes that I have decided to be single given the current times and the prospective d i ls that are available now.

It is no wonder that S Ve Shekhar who made the original 'manal kayiru' movie (where the boy protagonist lays conditions for the girl) also felt the need to make a part 2 of the same movie as 'manal kayiru 2' where the girl protagonist lays conditions for the boy.

Nope.

Nada.

Sorry.

I will not be trying to pull some anti-gravity moves to defend what I have said here. You can happily bash me for all I care.

Krishnan

 

[vgane]

Elders who are supposed to be role models for their children are floundering in their own lives! The OP father & son (mother is no more) used to fight with each other on some trivial matter! There was no trust between themselves! They tried to control the new girl but in vain!! She kept quite all along and now is boiling!! So each divorce case has a separate story to tell!! But the common threat is lying, deception, breaking the trust, putting unreasonable demands, and disrespecting!!

 

[krish44]

Elders who are supposed to be role models for their children are floundering in their own lives! The OP father & son (mother is no more) used to fight with each other on some trivial matter! There was no trust between themselves! They tried to control the new girl but in vain!! She kept quite all along and now is boiling!! So each divorce case has a separate story to tell!! But the common threat is lying, deception, breaking the trust, putting unreasonable demands, and disrespecting!!

In many families, father and son are at loggerheads. Normally mother is the binding force , the compromising glue that holds families together. Absence of Mother can be a

big blow.Now when a new girl enters the family, she is left with the unenviable task to make peace between husband and FIL.All girls want control. If that is denied, she is

caught in a domestic war between husband and FIL.Such relationships are doomed from the beginning.

 

[prasad1]

Elders who are supposed to be role models for their children are floundering in their own lives! The OP father & son (mother is no more) used to fight with each other on some trivial matter! There was no trust between themselves! They tried to control the new girl but in vain!! She kept quite all along and now is boiling!! So each divorce case has a separate story to tell!! But the common threat is lying, deception, breaking the trust, putting unreasonable demands, and disrespecting!!

Vganeji,
You are stating the true problem. But it is not exclusive to TB, this is the universal reason for the majority of the divorce. Actually, it is also the reason for the breakdown of relation, partnership, friendship etc.