Do we follow some norms and ethics in this forum

[Raghy]

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Respectable members,

We do not need to go through the friction between honourable members in every discussion. It is wrong to see Sri. Nara as a controversial person. He like to show the events from a different point of view and different perspective. Often times, the angle choses happens to be diametrically opposite to popular views. Further more, it is perfectly acceptable to have opposing views. He just likes to substantiate his views; that's all. During discussions, we should be careful not say something which we may regret for ever.

For persons who do not know..Sow.Sri.Happy Hindu follows more brahminical life than I personally ever did. Why this 'I' is important?.. I grew up in an orthodox Vada Kalai Vaishnava home. I followed all the 'acharams' at one stage. I read almost all her posts (excepting the ones with Sanskrit grammer discussions. I could not make head or tail of the discussions); I could gather somuch information about that young lady. By the way, she is also very much interested in the betterment of this forum and community.

A personal request to you Sri.RVR sir, Sri.Nara and Sow.Happy Hindu may be critical of so many or even each and every detail of Hindu religion; but they are promoting and strengthening Hinduism...a Hinduism where everyone and everything is equitable. It may be hard to believe, but it is true. You are involved in highly commendable social service; I think you should preserve your energies for developmental projects. Long and hard debating with Sri.Nara and Sow.Happy Hindu is like 'kicking same side goal in a foot ball game'. Kindly recognise that they are part of our team.

Thanks to every one.

Cheers!

 

[kunjuppu]

...
A personal request to you Sri.RVR sir, Sri.Nara and Sow.Happy Hindu may be critical of so many or even each and every detail of Hindu religion; but they are promoting and strengthening Hinduism...a Hinduism where everyone and everything is equitable. It may be hard to believe, but it is true. You are involved in highly commendable social service; I think you should preserve your energies for developmental projects. Long and hard debating with Sri.Nara and Sow.Happy Hindu is like 'kicking same side goal in a foot ball game'. Kindly recognise that they are part of our team.

Thanks to every one.

Cheers!

raghy, i agree. RVR, Nara & Happy Hindu are the most progressive beacons of this forum. same side goal it is.

 

[nachi naga]

To Nachi Naga: Please do not indulge in making fun of other sub-sects (it appears that way) of Brahmins; the ball can come back and hit you.

Dear Nachi Naga:
I am sure you know that I am very fair to everybody on this forum. I have to point out this to you: Please address the Ahobilam Srimat Azhagiya Singar with respect; like any other Hindu Acharya, (or, for that matter, any religious head) he, too, deserves our respect. You wouldn't want someone to address casually the Kanchi Sri Acharya; would you?
I know you are not anti-Vaishnava but your words in writing give that impression. Maybe Shani Bhagwan is the reason!!!

sf,

becoz i am lazy typing titles,i shortened hh singar.nothing to demean the acharya or even offend vaishanavas of their exclusive thinking amongst hindus.as far as the ball coming back to me,i fail to understand it,simply becoz,in my heart i did not mock hh nor did it ever occur to hurt vaishnavas.if at all when i read the forum archives,i see vituperative non-sense was written about kanchi acharyals and nay a single person wrote as how you have addressed to me.only when sai baba was ridiculed,i had some backing,now some of them even left the forum.i am replying to you as a member not to a moderator,hope you take it in the right spirit,and allow me to continue in the forum without invoking your moderator cap.thank you.

 

[nachi naga]

dear raghy,

Nachi Naga said:-

Whenever I stoodup for Sri.Nara, you said I was supporting a fellow Vaishnava; you used abusive languages towards me in that connection.

.

you still are a vaishnavan and you still side all vaishnavites.some of nara's post are provocative and brings out the worst feeling in people namely ANGER & HATE.by siding him or lending your hhelping fingers,by association,i could have mis-understood and used abusive language (as you say).if i ad used such a language,promptly i would have got private message from moderators.in fact,that you come openly now,in the forum,to show your perceived irritation over me,is news to me.bitter truth is,vaishnavas act superior,every Hindu in the world knows it,it's just NOT me.thankfully,i am all inclusive,and i can visit any temple of any diety without restrictions.sorry mate,if i hurt you.

To your sweet information, I do hold a lamp; there are people who have benefitted by the light shown by me. I still hold the lamp; I have no desire to put it down.

Cheers!

i am not sure what you mean by this statement.becoz you are entitled to hold lamp wherever you wish,and as far as i know,i have NOT snatched your lamp nor commanded you to put your lamp down,or even claiming that,I am holding a BRIGHTER LAMP than you,to cow you down.again,sorry mate.

 

[silverfox]

Dear Nachi Naga:
I am sorry to hear some bad stuff was written about Kanchi Acharyals. If this had come to my attention, I would have immediately admonished that person (persons). This forum, while very democratic, has no place for bad-mouthing, foul language or personal attacks. As I said, we must respect all religions/religious heads, even when we don't agree with their views. One should be able to present his/her views without getting personal or use harsh language. As a member, I may have my own views about Sai Baba, but I will not let anybody ridicule him. At the same time, public figures have to be prepared for criticism and accept differing views; again, without crossing the limit.
Nachi Naga, I know you are a good man and that your intentions are in the right place; however, when you write, you have to be very careful in your language on how you express your views. If you are talking to someone in person that is a different matter. In writing it could take on completely different meaning!!
Please re-read your writing before you post; put yourself in the audience's shoes and see how another person might perceive your posting.
Remember, this forum is for ALL brahmins; and we have no place for in-fighting/nit-picking among various sub sects. By making fun of one sub sect will defeat the purpose and, like I said, will come back and hit you in the face. Let us be united for the common goals!
Take care

sf,

becoz i am lazy typing titles,i shortened hh singar.nothing to demean the acharya or even offend vaishanavas of their exclusive thinking amongst hindus.as far as the ball coming back to me,i fail to understand it,simply becoz,in my heart i did not mock hh nor did it ever occur to hurt vaishnavas.if at all when i read the forum archives,i see vituperative non-sense was written about kanchi acharyals and nay a single person wrote as how you have addressed to me.only when sai baba was ridiculed,i had some backing,now some of them even left the forum.i am replying to you as a member not to a moderator,hope you take it in the right spirit,and allow me to continue in the forum without invoking your moderator cap.thank you.

 

[silverfox]

Dear Nachi Naga
There you go again! even though you say you have nothing against the vaishnavas, you yourself have proven that it is NOT so by your own statement. Just what do you mean by "vaishnavas act superior, every Hindu in the world knows it, it's not just me....".
How can you make a blanket statement like that?
Come on, Nachi, how can you make statements like 'every Hindu knows it'..... this is ridiculous, baseless and downright hatred.
I would like you to re-read your posting and apologize to all the Vaishnavas and more so, to all Brahmins/members in this forum.

dear raghy,.

you still are a vaishnavan and you still side all vaishnavites.some of nara's post are provocative and brings out the worst feeling in people namely ANGER & HATE.by siding him or lending your hhelping fingers,by association,i could have mis-understood and used abusive language (as you say).if i ad used such a language,promptly i would have got private message from moderators.in fact,that you come openly now,in the forum,to show your perceived irritation over me,is news to me.bitter truth is,vaishnavas act superior,every Hindu in the world knows it,it's just NOT me.thankfully,i am all inclusive,and i can visit any temple of any diety without restrictions.sorry mate,if i hurt you.



i am not sure what you mean by this statement.becoz you are entitled to hold lamp wherever you wish,and as far as i know,i have NOT snatched your lamp nor commanded you to put your lamp down,or even claiming that,I am holding a BRIGHTER LAMP than you,to cow you down.again,sorry mate.

 

[nachi naga]

Dear Nachi Naga:
I am sorry to hear some bad stuff was written about Kanchi Acharyals. If this had come to my attention, I would have immediately admonished that person (persons). This forum, while very democratic, has no place for bad-mouthing, foul language or personal attacks. As I said, we must respect all religions/religious heads, even when we don't agree with their views. One should be able to present his/her views without getting personal or use harsh language. As a member, I may have my own views about Sai Baba, but I will not let anybody ridicule him. At the same time, public figures have to be prepared for criticism and accept differing views; again, without crossing the limit.
Nachi Naga, I know you are a good man and that your intentions are in the right place; however, when you write, you have to be very careful in your language on how you express your views. If you are talking to someone in person that is a different matter. In writing it could take on completely different meaning!!
Please re-read your writing before you post; put yourself in the audience's shoes and see how another person might perceive your posting.
Remember, this forum is for ALL brahmins; and we have no place for in-fighting/nit-picking among various sub sects. By making fun of one sub sect will defeat the purpose and, like I said, will come back and hit you in the face. Let us be united for the common goals!
Take care

sf,

as my elder,i respectfully yield.secondly,i agree,i do have a handicap in writing otherwise why i shud be mis-understood,thirdly graham's owing to my past or poorva janma karma,will make me look or perceive,the way i am being perceived,whether its the truth or NOT,is immaterial.in my existance in bhu-lokam,one lesson i learnt was, ஊர் வாய மூட முடியாது so,i happily go on with my life,never ever figure out what outside of me whether people,animals,plants...etc perceive of me.thank you,you too take care

 

[nachi naga]

Dear Nachi Naga
There you go again! even though you say you have nothing against the vaishnavas, you yourself have proven that it is NOT so by your own statement. Just what do you mean by "vaishnavas act superior, every Hindu in the world knows it, it's not just me....".
How can you make a blanket statement like that?
Come on, Nachi, how can you make statements like 'every Hindu knows it'..... this is ridiculous, baseless and downright hatred.
I would like you to re-read your posting and apologize to all the Vaishnavas and more so, to all Brahmins/members in this forum.

sf,

before i express myself again,i would like to know,which cap is being worn now.is it member or moderator?

 

[Nara]

Greetings and peace to one and all!

First, true peace is not just cease fire. There are issues that remain unanswered. Reconciliation requires facing the truth, this is why it is Truth and Reconciliation, not just Reconciliation.

In the few months I have been around here, I have not seen anyone better than HH in honesty, integrity, erudition, and everything that this forum must value. It is true, she asked some pointed questions in the past. Instead of answering them, she has been vilified and her very integrity was recently called into question. This has not been addressed yet. I will move on, and I am sure HH will also move on. But, IMO, in our hurry to move on, justice for HH has been pushed under the rug.

If anyone can show, in an unbiased way, personal attack from my side, I will take responsibility for it and apologize with all the sincerity I can muster.

Middle of the road may often be prudent approach, but there comes times when middle of the road is akin to diving the baby into two equal halves.

peace once again ...

 

[nachi naga]

hh in my posts mean his/her holinesses!!!

 

[RVR]

Kizhavenmani incident has come as a Novel by Indira Parthasarathi under the title `Kurudhipunal' and the novel has won the outstanding literary award from `Sahitya Acadami'

Indhira Parthasarathi has also been awarded Padmasri this year by the President of India.

Indira Parthasarathy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Based on the incident, a film has come in Tamil under the title `Aravindham'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aravindhan(1997_film)

A documentary film, Ramiahvin Kudisai (The Hut of Ramiah), was launched in 2006 in Chennai recounting the incident by the survivors of the incident.

All the best

 

[Nara]

Dear Nachi Naga
There you go again! even though you say you have nothing against the vaishnavas, you yourself have proven that it is NOT so by your own statement. Just what do you mean by "vaishnavas act superior, every Hindu in the world knows it, it's not just me....".

Dear Shri silverfox,

This opinion about SVs in general and the observant ones in particular is mostly due to misunderstanding of SV view of what is called அர்த்த பஞ்சகம். Some casual SVs also hold the opinion that it is narrow-minded on the part of those SVs who worship only பெருமாள். To understand the reasons for this, a brief comparative analysis of these five concepts (அர்த்த பஞ்சகம்) between SVs on the one hand, and the Smartha Advaitees (SA) on the other will be helpful.

#1 Nature of self

• SA view is Jiva is non-different from Supreme Brahman
• SV view is Jiva is completely dependent on and subservient to Sriman Narayana, the Supreme Brahman.

#2 Nature of the goal

• SA view is complete understanding of non-difference which will result in Jivan mukti.
• SV view is supreme bliss of eternal service to Sriman Narayana who is the supreme Brahman, they call this கைங்கர்யம்

#3 Hurdles that stand in the way of achieving the goal

• SA view is அஞ்ஞாநம் arising from karma -- i.e. seeing difference when in fact there no difference
• SV view is karma

#4 Means to achieving the goal - மோக்ஷோபாயம்

• SA view is proper knowledge of the non-difference contained in the Vedas
• SV view is complete annihilation of all karma, which can happen only through Bhakti Yoga (Bhakti, Para Bhakti, and then finally Parama Bhakti), or prapatti/saranagati asking Sriman Narayana to stand in place of Bhakti Yoga and remove all karma (there is a difference of opinion on this concept between Vadakalai and Thenkalai)

#5 The nature of the result (பலம்) of achieving the goal

• SA view is pure consciousness with no difference whatever
• SV view is pure bliss equal to that of Supreme Brahman -- this is what SVs call Sayujyam

Please note, this அர்த்த பஞ்சகம் analysis can be applied to even secular activities.

Now, apply this to going to temples. The SA world view is the truth is non-difference. Vishnu, Sivan, Shakthi, they all are ultimately the same thing. So, they see no reason to exclude any deity from their worship.

But, for SVs all deities are real and each have powers and limitations. Sriman Narayana is the ultimate authority if you will, the Supreme Brahman, and his powers are unlimited. He can give everything -- if you ask for moksham he will give moksham, if you ask for anything else, he will that also. While other devathas may have power to give some material benefits, only Sriman Narayana can give moksham. Since moksham is the only ultimate objective, and since only Sriman Narayana can give that, SV do not worship any other devatha but Sriman Narayana. Even if lesser goods are desired, Sriman Narayana will give that too. This is exemplified by நம்மாழ்வார்'s "உன்னையல்லால் ஏதும் குறைவேண்டேன்".

This is the detailed explanation. But, Acharyas often times give short instructions, like, go only to பெருமாள் கோவில். Many understand the reasons, and many don't. Those who don't understand the reasons may act in a haughty way, like we only go to பெருமாள் கோவில்.

There is another thing for which many get offended, that is some orthodox SVs refuse to eat or drink anything even from other Brahmin households. There is a reason for this as well. Really orthodox SVs will not eat anywhere outside of their own home. Some don't even eat in SV Matams. They have to prepare the food in a particular way, using particular vessels, and complete திருவாராதனம் in the prescribed way, and eat only the food that is offered to பெருமாள் during திருவாராதனம். This is possible only at home and that is why they don't eat anything outside of their own homes.

Folks, I am presenting all this only as information.

Cheers!

 

[RVR]

Kizhavenmani is just 15 KMs from my native village. I was a college student when this barbaric incident happened during Christmas holidays. At that time my village was also part of Nagappattinum Taluk. My father and other relatives are also agriculturists but were not part of the agricultural association since it was controlled by big land lords with militant approach. These big land lords use to take law into their hands and use to terrorize the farm labour.

Those days the entire area was part of composite Tanjore district and our area was known as East Tanjore under the administration of a sub-collector positioned at Nagappattinum

Nagappattinum parliment constituency those days use to consist of six assembly constituencies - Nagappattinum, Tiruvarur, Nannilam, Thiruthuraipoondi, Mannargudi and Kottur. Both the communist parties CPM and CPI were very strong in that area. Noted communist leader Manali Kandasamy use to get elected from Tiruthuraipoondi repeatedly without virtually no opposition. Nagappattinum and Tiruvarur use to be bagged by CPM.

Daliths are the majority in our area and most of the constituencies were reserved for SC. Even today Nagappattinum parliament constituency is a reserved constituency for SC. Most of the daliths belonged to either of the communist parties.

Big land lords such as Vadapathimangalam Mudaliar, Poondi Vaandayar, Kabistalam Mooppanar, Ukkadai Thevar use to dominate the district as uncrowned kings. They use to keep big land holdings violating Agricultural Land Cieling Act under benami names. They know the trick of keeping the benamies under their control. Our community use to have small holdings within the permitted limit of land ceiling laws.

There use to be dispute between land lords and farm labour almost every year. Communists will not allow harvest to go smoothly without extracting higher wages.

DMK, DK and Congress use to be strong in towns. Our present Chief Minister Karunanidhi hails from Tiruvarur. Popular DK leaders of that time like A T Panneerselvam, Tiruvarur Thangarasu are all from that area only.

Congress will not create any problem for our community but at the same time will not protect us also. Communists use to be a shield for our community from the attack of DK activists. More over poor brahmins in our village were members of communist party and hence the communist leaders use to visit our residential locality regularly.

My father and my other relatives were very much disturbed when this incident happened. Local communist leader incharge of Nagappattinum Taluk Kannappa Gurukkal explained the incident in detail to my father and other relatives. I had the opportunity to listen the full story through him. I have not seen my father weeping till that moment. Even when my grandmother expired, he didn't weep publicly, may be since she was around 84 years. That was the first time I saw my father shedding tears instantaneously. He didn't take food properly for few days. He donated some money to Kannappa Gurukkal on the spot and also told my relatives to donate something immediately.

There use to be usual dose of advice regularly those days that I should study well and move out of the village. That day the dose was much stronger than usual and I silently listened.

Let us all hope that it is the last barbaric act against human in our life time.

All the best

 

[suraju06]

Dear Shri RVR, Greetings!



Yet they revere EVR, and hate Brahminists, why? Think about that.

dear mr nara,

It would be fair if you present some documentary evidence for this.

 

[nachi naga]

Dear Shri silverfox,

This opinion about SVs in general and the observant ones in particular is mostly due to misunderstanding of SV view of what is called அர்த்த பஞ்சகம். Some casual SVs also hold the opinion that it is narrow-minded on the part of those SVs who worship only பெருமாள். To understand the reasons for this, a brief comparative analysis of these five concepts (அர்த்த பஞ்சகம்) between SVs on the one hand, and the Smartha Advaitees (SA) on the other will be helpful.

#1 Nature of self

• SA view is Jiva is non-different from Supreme Brahman
• SV view is Jiva is completely dependent on and subservient to Sriman Narayana, the Supreme Brahman.

#2 Nature of the goal

• SA view is complete understanding of non-difference which will result in Jivan mukti.
• SV view is supreme bliss of eternal service to Sriman Narayana who is the supreme Brahman, they call this கைங்கர்யம்

#3 Hurdles that stand in the way of achieving the goal

• SA view is அஞ்ஞாநம் arising from karma -- i.e. seeing difference when in fact there no difference
• SV view is karma

#4 Means to achieving the goal - மோக்ஷோபாயம்

• SA view is proper knowledge of the non-difference contained in the Vedas
• SV view is complete annihilation of all karma, which can happen only through Bhakti Yoga (Bhakti, Para Bhakti, and then finally Parama Bhakti), or prapatti/saranagati asking Sriman Narayana to stand in place of Bhakti Yoga and remove all karma (there is a difference of opinion on this concept between Vadakalai and Thenkalai)

#5 The nature of the result (பலம்) of achieving the goal

• SA view is pure consciousness with no difference whatever
• SV view is pure bliss equal to that of Supreme Brahman -- this is what SVs call Sayujyam

Please note, this அர்த்த பஞ்சகம் analysis can be applied to even secular activities.

Now, apply this to going to temples. The SA world view is the truth is non-difference. Vishnu, Sivan, Shakthi, they all are ultimately the same thing. So, they see no reason to exclude any deity from their worship.

But, for SVs all deities are real and each have powers and limitations. Sriman Narayana is the ultimate authority if you will, the Supreme Brahman, and his powers are unlimited. He can give everything -- if you ask for moksham he will give moksham, if you ask for anything else, he will that also. While other devathas may have power to give some material benefits, only Sriman Narayana can give moksham. Since moksham is the only ultimate objective, and since only Sriman Narayana can give that, SV do not worship any other devatha but Sriman Narayana. Even if lesser goods are desired, Sriman Narayana will give that too. This is exemplified by நம்மாழ்வார்'s "உன்னையல்லால் ஏதும் குறைவேண்டேன்".

This is the detailed explanation. But, Acharyas often times give short instructions, like, go only to பெருமாள் கோவில். Many understand the reasons, and many don't. Those who don't understand the reasons may act in a haughty way, like we only go to பெருமாள் கோவில்.

There is another thing for which many get offended, that is some orthodox SVs refuse to eat or drink anything even from other Brahmin households. There is a reason for this as well. Really orthodox SVs will not eat anywhere outside of their own home. Some don't even eat in SV Matams. They have to prepare the food in a particular way, using particular vessels, and complete திருவாராதனம் in the prescribed way, and eat only the food that is offered to பெருமாள் during திருவாராதனம். This is possible only at home and that is why they don't eat anything outside of their own homes.

Folks, I am presenting all this only as information.

Cheers!

nara & sf,

like your presentation of comparison between SA and SV.Now i am told,there is Vaishnava Advaithees too.I am yet to befriend one though,but vaguely recollect,lot's of iyengar's being in the premises of Mahaswamigal,dunno how it is now,in Kanchi Peetham.

incidently,a cow thinks god is a cow,the name of the cow is kamadhenu,and she say's,she created all of the things we know,we see,..etc with sense perception.I humbly bow down to kamadhenu go matha.(This is NOT a joke,nor a mockery=disclaimer).

 

[kunjuppu]

where is that t.r.ramamurthy who started this thread?

is a sincere contributor? or another of those jokers, who enjoys teasing the children and watching the fun. sure enough much ado has been done here about trivials.

the way i understand rvr, i am very much aligned with him on almost all issues. we care for the poor of our community, abhor the orthodox and discriminative casteism, suspicious of priesthood, but support priest as a vocation because it satisfies a need, enjoy the conviviality of the forum and very much a community leader. he is in no way a casteist, but when is cornered and blackened by the casteist accusation, has no choice to defend the baby & the bathwater. anyway this is how i take it.

happy hindu is the essence of the future of hinduism as i wish it to be. she is erudite, and in the best of terms, a true modern practising brahmin, if ever there could be one. this may be due to the interchangeability of varna, and the brahmin is the erudite, thinking and innnovative in her approach. kudos.

nara, we all know, to be among the most deeply learned, and a adherent who has opted out of sri vaishnavism due to the way it is practised now. myself, am attracted to the original tenets of sri vashnavisim, and more than one occassion, i had to talk to him to remain, stay and enrich his with his views. his uncompromising centred attacks on the worst aspects of casteism, is from that of an ex insider, and even though he may view me as a middle of the road guy, i am more radical than he gives me credit. but cannot and would not follow his approach.

on the whole, i think, these three, are swirling themselves deeper and deeper into a mire here, from which none of whom are able to get out. so much energy wasted over trivialities. nitpicking. wordsmithing. all in all, if people are to be termed black and white, these above are pleasant shades of gray, humanitywise, and i cannot fathom, what it is and whatever it is, that they are fighting about.

wish i could raise my cane, spank them three lashes each, and urge them to rub their lower chin with their thumbs and say பழம் பழம்

back to my first lne. where IS t.r. ramamurthy?

 

[Nara]

... but when is cornered and blackened by the casteist accusation, has no choice to defend the baby & the bathwater. anyway this is how i take it.

Just for the record, I never called RVR a castiest. All I said was he successfully organized castiest swayamvarams, which they were, all across Tamilnadu and still claims Brahmins live in fear. If I am meant as the one doing the "cornering" and "blackening" by accusations of "castiest" please show me the courtesy of telling me on what basis this judgment is arrived at.

thanks ...

 

[nachi naga]

kunjuppu,

as i comprehend

happy hindu = brahmins in particular are root cause of castes in india,especially kanchi acharyals.

nara = ex-SV,now evolved rationalist,again brahmins are root cause,for caste in India.

rvr = excepting for mahaswamigal,all god men/women are charlatans.

me = uppukku chappani.

y ou = sv with a difference,brahmins need to change.

sangom = brahmin dasan,but whips now and then scriptures,quetions them?

ss = merged with jothi as jotisham.

praveen = diplomat,successful biz entrepreneur.avoids caste discussion as much as possible.

renu = disgusted with sai baba bashing.

amala = wisdom too a young an age.

tbs = nera kudam.

saptha = hiatus priyan.

raghy = anti-caste,but will get offended if pointed out his caste.

sf = dunno when moderator and when member?

still many more to go....sometimes wonder if chintana is posting with different name !

krs = american patriot,no indian shud comment about americans

it's posted with good banter,so take it lightly...

 

[happyhindu]

I went thru this thread from page 26 to page 27.

Shri RVR, i wud like to apologise to you. I do not know if you will accept. But i hope we can bury the hatchet and move on. Sir, i do not know if you will beleive me, but i have always had high regard for you for the work you do.

On my part, i might want to see some small reforms from religious leaders. On your part, you may want to leave the religious folk aside, and concentrate on developmental work. Yours is the most practical path and most applicable path at present. Eventually over the years i hope the expectations of folks like me from the religious leaders are also met with.

---
Shri RVR, wud also like to thank you for the detailed post on Kizhavenmani. Am not able to imagine how extremely gruesome it must have been. Hope justice is finally done to the 'dalits'.

You have mentioned about benami accounts. I too have heard about it.

Some of my mother's most recent ancestors belonged to a part of erstwhile Tanjore. It seems the british had already seized all their lands by the 1860s and there was constant struggle on the ownership. Instead of having to depend on income from agriculture means, they preferred education and employment. So they left the place and moved to Madras city. By 1920 am told everyone had moved to madras city.

It turns out that around 1930 some of their lands did come back in the names of some of their family members (from the british). However, these family folk were not very enterprising and did not pay attention to their lands (since the men cud not travel back and forth from madras city to tanjore often). Their absence proved crucial. To compensate for their absence, they continued to depend on some enterprising farmers (of an other telugu community that i shall not name here) to supervise things. These supervisor-famers were already supervising the lands as mini landlords previously when the british had taken over the land ownership.

Anyways, by 1960, after the land reforms act, most of the lands then moved into the hands of the indian government. Am told some of my family folk tried to retain ownership thru benami means by registering lands on the names of farmers (the ones who used to supervise their lands in their absence). These supervisor-farmers had always enjoyed considerable local support. Notwithstanding the benami ownership, they soon fashioned themselves as the new owners of the land with fake claims of belonging to erstwhile zamindaris. They used to make such claims even they were working as supervisor-farmers for the british anyways.

Land ownership, at that time (pre-indepence period), i think was a battle of wits and brains, more than that of brawn. And fashioning genelogy i think was not too tuf either. Even tamilian farmers have switched castes, affiliations and equations of their "belonging-ness". New caste equations have always been dissolved with new ones being created. Therefore each time i come across caste claims wrt to land ownership, i take it with a pinch of salt. And i hardly ever believe the descent claims. Anyways, we live in a different world with a totally diff set of equations now.

Regards.

 

[silverfox]

Dear Nachi Naga

What difference will it make whether i am writing as a member or as a moderator? The fact still remains that you have accused Vaishnavas and hurt their feelings. If i am writing as a member, i would indicate as such. I am still waiting.......

 

[tbs]

hi NN sir,

tbs = nera kudam.

thank u so much for ur commenting....ur analysis may be right....every rule has an exceptions....every excepton has a rule...\

ur judgement is perfect...but im stilll learning....adiyenukku therinthathu kai alavu....kallathathu malai alavu...life is learning journey.....

death is not an dead end.....its thodarkathai....to new form on a new body.....

any way milkka nanri....

ps...like chintana...many old wines in new bottle.....only name changed....many old wines are still here...atma the same...different jivatmas here.....

regards
tbs

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Nachi Naga Ji,

You are partly correct in your statement. Yes, I am unabashedly pro american, because I became willingly the citizen of this country about 30 years ago. The second part of your statement is wrong, because I do not have any authority 'not to allow' anyone to post anti american postings.

All most all the anti american postings in this Forum are from people, like yourself, who have no clue about America. You, sir, represent the extreme, because, you tend to generalize without any intelligent knowledge.

When you say that America is 'Christian' you are partly correct. But, you do not understand this special country in the world whose founding fathers were not only smart but had deep wisdom to make a country that in a large part a beneficient country in the world.

You readily denigrate SV, because of your tendency (perhaps intelliigence?) in not understanding and grasping the differences between Advaitham and Visishtadwaitham. These are major philosophical concepts of our majestic religion and they are both equally valid within our religion, because they both have logical support from our Srutis.

You seem to not understand this.

Nachi Naga: A person with coarse tendencies, using filthy language at times, while blissfully ignorant of our religion.

Sir, please behave.

Regards,
KRS

 

[KRS]

Folks,

I love Srimathi HH Ji as a sister. I believe I was the first one to tell her that she is a 'brahmin' in her conduct in this Forum.

I had tangled with Prof. Nara before, probably because he misconstrued my words and probably also because I was not careful with my words, but that is now history.

Sri RVR Ji and I went to the same college in India, and we are aligned in our outlook except on a couple of issues. But those issues carried enough weight and the circumstances surrounding them forever have altered our relationship and unfortunately, now I am leery of any association with his efforts to better our community. This does not mean that his efforts are not worthwhile, it is just that I do not wish to be a part of his efforts as he and I do not have any trust between us.

Sri Kunjuppu Ji is another matter altogether. We started off with I thought were full agreement on our views. But unfortunately that turned out to be not the case. Anyways, I do not anymore consider him to be my friend and likewise, he probably reciprocates my feelings.

The reason I am enumerating all this,is because what I want to say next:
From what I can see, the tiff between Srimathi HH, Prof. Nara Ji on one side and Sri RVR Ji on the other.

The only comment I would make is this: While this a TB Forum, this is open to everyone in the globe. Sri Praveen Ji would agree with my view that a brahmin is defined by the content of his/her charecter rather than birth.

The other is this: Let us not use this Forum to wantonly drive away others just because we think that they are following some philosophy we do not agree with. I do not see a particular vibrant contributor to this Forum from Malaysis anymore here. This is exactly because some one insisted on calling a person charlatan while the person mentioned viewed that person as divine. Who is right? Who knows? But what all I know is that today we have one less valuable member.

Regards,
KRS

 

[nachi naga]

hi NN sir,

tbs = nera kudam.

thank u so much for ur commenting....ur analysis may be right....every rule has an exceptions....every excepton has a rule...\

ur judgement is perfect...but im stilll learning....adiyenukku therinthathu kai alavu....kallathathu malai alavu...life is learning journey.....

death is not an dead end.....its thodarkathai....to new form on a new body.....

any way milkka nanri....

ps...like chintana...many old wines in new bottle.....only name changed....many old wines are still here...atma the same...different jivatmas here.....

regards
tbs

tbs,

ok,comprehension on my part is ok with you.danks.

 

[nachi naga]

dear silver fox,

Nachi Naga, I know you are a good man and that your intentions are in the right place; however, when you write, you have to be very careful in your language on how you express your views. If you are talking to someone in person that is a different matter. In writing it could take on completely different meaning!!

i am reading and re-reading my entire 1394 posts here,so please wait,before i decide to express further,with my limited english language skills .Untill i do that,i am NOT going to participate in any threads or reply any post addressed to me.Thank You very much,for your patience and faith,in me.