Does karma theory make us suffer?

[Jaykay767]

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Hi Raji,

First off, one should live a very righteous life, live in such a way that it does not harm anyone. Remove all the negative energies around you – if you have a running fight with some one – call them, reconcile, peace out !!

Having said that, if one starves for 1 day & feasts for next 30 days, it does not help.

See, when you enjoy, you are exhausting the Good Karma – once the good karma goes out, bad things happen.

Good Karma is your safety life jacket, once the life jacket comes out, you are vulnerable to attacks !!

One has to live life in absolute moderation in everything – whether it is watching movies, drinking, partying, social life, etc… do things that make you uncomfortable ec…

Once you move into a life of absolute moderation, then starving, mouna vratham – being silent for a day or 5 hrs etc.., serving others – going to local temple & giving food to poor etc.. increases your Good Karma. There is NO greater good one can do than giving food to the poor, teaching them, bettering their lives !!.

You can just give money to the beggar when you go out every day, or when you are driving to your work etc…

So in short you have to cut your enjoyment down, do things that make you uncomfortable & do more good to others !!

Give it a try, you will see a big difference. You will suddenly see a reduction or elimination of the bad events.

Cheers,

 

[Vaagmi]

Some people will be able to relate to this and some may not.

That, of course, is the 'given situation' in the thread about which nothing can be done. So no problem with that. Perceptions and understanding as well as the distance traversed differs from individual to individual.

1. It will be hard to accept that a loving Isvara would put someone in this 'birth-death' cycle.. Secondly it will be even more strange for this Isvara to ask his creation to seek refuge to him so that they can get out of the cycle

To understand the SV viewpoint it would first require that God is accepted. Next will follow his scheme of things to be understood. This is a place not for the discussion of all that. So I am not discussing that.

2. It is hard to believe in something that we cannot understand. If I say pray to "jkghghsoioioyi1@#$$" and all your problems will be gone we cannot accept that. I could create stories and portray some imagery to gain acceptance but it is not possible to go for surrender whatever that means.

It is like this: I would say God is capable of taking care of the sanchita, prArabda and Agaami papas and make them nil if you surrender to Him. A question will be asked as to why should He in the first place allow these papas to play a role at all. That would take me to explain what a God idea is. Then a question will come as to why should we bring an external God idea into the picture at all. Then I will have to ask the person to read the scriptures. Then he will ask why should scriptures be the final authority. I will have to answer that this involves understanding what is knowledge and what is the process of thinking/knowing itself and that will take me and him to the area of epistemology. Even after that, depending on the extent of ignorance or the size of the ego or the extent of prior indoctrination embedded, a chasm will remain to be crossed. So it will become a long journey with too many pitfalls and bridges to cross. It is better for one to travel it all by himself with an open questioning mind and find for himself the answers. So I stop with making summary statements like "according to SV sampradhaya this is this".

So ideas of surrender , Isvara,and Jagat all have to be understood including clarity on what problem is being solved. The whole Karma model is a belief and if we need to bring new beliefs and entity like God to resolve those imagined problems it is hard to sustain the beliefs of God for many people except with fear which is what all religions do.

A man on the street who is totally insecure will have fear for everything. Not one who is in search of knowledge. All belief systems are just abstract ideas. If at all they get any authentication it is by scriptures. Now this authenticity can be questioned too by a student who is in search of truth as well as by one who has a tendency to trash everything and march royally towards that hopelessly empty nihilistic jungle. As I have mentioned above, scriptures and their validity are based on clear epistemological arguments which are open to all those who search for answers with a mind to identify and accept an answer when it presents itself without just trashing it . I can only say this much here because this forum may not be the place for a deep and involved argument on scriptures and their validity or western and Eastern epistemology. Moreover, people here may be looking for quick-fix solutions because of attention span difficulties. Some have said so already. So, good luck if you are searching.

 

[Raji Ram]

Yes, it is. Our mathematics is - quarter deducted if one realises that he has done bad deed, another quarter if he decides to do and does a prayaschitta, a quarter if he never repeats the pap karma. A quarter is still left which can be wiped out only by god's grace. Prayachitta contributes to mitigation.

Dear Sarang Sir,

A kitten got run over by my friend's car. She realized immediately that it is a bad deed. She put some money in a temple as

prayaschitha. She may never repeat that paap karma again! So, do you say that ONLY quarter of her bad karma remains to

be wiped out by God's grace?! This sounds rather strange to me!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Jaykay Sir,

My family has been leading a moderate life, as you have described in your post # 51. Added to these absolutely no non veg,

no alcohol ever! We may have to add something like 'EkAdasi vratham', I think. Thanks for your reply!

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vaagmi Sir,

The total surrender to the Almighty helps to develop the mind to accept everything for good. This 'nadappadhellAm nanmaikkE'

attitude will give peace of mind and enable us continue our life without any mental agony! I have heard many elders say, 'ellAm

''avan'' pAththuppAn' whenever they face some problems in their lives! They had at least peace of mind.

Dear RR,

The benefits derived as mentioned by you are "kosuru" in the bargain. The main benefit is that you get God's grace. Surrender helps you in that. "aham madhrakshana baro madhrakshana phalam thathA, na mama sripathErEva idhyAtmAnam nikshibEdbudhaha" said Swami Desikan. Please perceive.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear RR,

The benefits derived as mentioned by you are "kosuru" in the bargain. The main benefit is that you get God's grace. Surrender helps you in that. "aham madhrakshana baro madhrakshana phalam thathA, na mama sripathErEva idhyAtmAnam nikshibEdbudhaha" said Swami Desikan. Please perceive.

Dear Vaagmi Sir,

I am not a Sanskrit scholar. So kindly give the translation. Thank you!

 

[Raji Ram]

Yahoo gives the translation like this:

"Wise ones, knowing this to be Truth, say: The burden of preserving my self is not mine; whatever is to be reaped by self preservation

is never mine. It is the Lord of "Sri" alone who bears and reaps from the burden of my self"

 

[Vaagmi]

Yahoo gives the translation like this:

"Wise ones, knowing this to be Truth, say: The burden of preserving my self is not mine; whatever is to be reaped by self preservation

is never mine. It is the Lord of "Sri" alone who bears and reaps from the burden of my self"

You got it right and that is said as the prelude to surrender.

 

[vaithehi]

That also one of the sufferings...in no way you can escape:scared:

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vaithehi,

It appears you are struggling with the various tools available in this forum to make your posts presentable. If you want to quote a certain post and add your comments to what is said there you can mention the post number and then give your comments. In each post on the right hand side of the blue bar on top you will find the number of the post as #1 or #2 etc., If you want to refer to a particular sentence in a post by someone, you can use your cursor to select the lines and copy paste it in your post. Hope this helps. All the best.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Vaagmi Sir,

Your idea to quote the post number might not be correct at times. Wonder why?

Members tend to delete some posts on second thought! Hence..........

The better way is to click on Reply With Quote seen under that post and then type and send the reply!

P.S: We can delete the unwanted lines in the quote also!

 

[vaithehi]

Thanks for the suggestion sir - rv

Dear Vaagmi Sir,

Your idea to quote the post number might not be correct at times. Wonder why?

Members tend to delete some posts on second thought! Hence..........

The better way is to click on Reply With Quote seen under that post and then type and send the reply!

P.S: We can delete the unwanted lines in the quote also!

Thanks for the same...but usually it is not giving the number...are you irritated by my emote icons? i will hereafter avoid that

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Vaithehi,

Please use the icons. But let us use them aptly! Then it is !

 

[Raji Ram]

...but usually it is not giving the number...

The quoted post will not have the number.

But by clicking the tiny blue box (

) following the poster's name in the quote (View Post) will show the entire post.

 

[Vaagmi]

Thanks for the same...but usually it is not giving the number...are you irritated by my emote icons? i will hereafter avoid that

Dear vaithehi,

Just do not bother what others will think as long as your posts are decent. Be bold with your views and express them here freely. use the emoticons as much as you want if you think that enhances the precision of delivery of the idea. Keep exploring the forum tools. You will master their use in course of time. All the best.

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear Tmt RR

But I don't see any "Blue Box" next to the name of a poster or postee !!!

Would that too fall under " Issues With The Site " in TBF ????

I didn't come across any denim-clad female strippers either !!

Would you call that be my GOOD karma or BAD karma ??

Yay Yem

 

[Raji Ram]

..........1. But I don't see any "Blue Box" next to the name of a poster or postee !!!

Would that too fall under " Issues With The Site " in TBF ????

2. I didn't come across any denim-clad female strippers either !!

Would you call that be my GOOD karma or BAD karma ?? ......

Dear A M Sir,
1. You should search for the tiny blue box (

) only inside a quote! Check near your name in the above quote, please! :spy:

2. I too did not come across female strippers! May be it my GOOD karma and your BAD karma! :lol:

 

[krish44]

Dear vaithehi,

Just do not bother what others will think as long as your posts are decent. Be bold with your views and express them here freely. use the emoticons as much as you want if you think that enhances the precision of delivery of the idea. Keep exploring the forum tools. You will master their use in course of time. All the best.

vaithehi ji keep it up. write what comes to your mind .do not feel apolegetic about your views. you have a right to your views . people in this forum are fairly thick skinned . they will in any case will not hurt a simple traditional conservative TB and that too a lady
with best wishes

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Krish Sir,

Please don't think forum is kind to lady members!

nanga ellam pazham thinnu kottai pOttavA!! :lol:

 

[tks]

1. That, of course, is the 'given situation' in the thread about which nothing can be done. So no problem with that. Perceptions and understanding as well as the distance traversed differs from individual to individual.



2. To understand the SV viewpoint it would first require that God is accepted. Next will follow his scheme of things to be understood. This is a place not for the discussion of all that. So I am not discussing that.



3. It is like this: I would say God is capable of taking care of the sanchita, prArabda and Agaami papas and make them nil if you surrender to Him. A question will be asked as to why should He in the first place allow these papas to play a role at all. That would take me to explain what a God idea is. Then a question will come as to why should we bring an external God idea into the picture at all. Then I will have to ask the person to read the scriptures. Then he will ask why should scriptures be the final authority. I will have to answer that this involves understanding what is knowledge and what is the process of thinking/knowing itself and that will take me and him to the area of epistemology. Even after that, depending on the extent of ignorance or the size of the ego or the extent of prior indoctrination embedded, a chasm will remain to be crossed. So it will become a long journey with too many pitfalls and bridges to cross. It is better for one to travel it all by himself with an open questioning mind and find for himself the answers. So I stop with making summary statements like "according to SV sampradhaya this is this".



4. A man on the street who is totally insecure will have fear for everything. Not one who is in search of knowledge. All belief systems are just abstract ideas. If at all they get any authentication it is by scriptures. Now this authenticity can be questioned too by a student who is in search of truth as well as by one who has a tendency to trash everything and march royally towards that hopelessly empty nihilistic jungle. As I have mentioned above, scriptures and their validity are based on clear epistemological arguments which are open to all those who search for answers with a mind to identify and accept an answer when it presents itself without just trashing it . I can only say this much here because this forum may not be the place for a deep and involved argument on scriptures and their validity or western and Eastern epistemology. Moreover, people here may be looking for quick-fix solutions because of attention span difficulties. Some have said so already. So, good luck if you are searching.

I just named the paragraphs, Sri Vaagmi

1. No comment

2. More than a view point the basis seem to be a belief which is true for most religion based traditions. The question that is relevant in my thinking is how reasonable is that belief, how useful is it and if it does not contradict our current knowledge (or find a satisfactory way to resolve the contradiction if any) . God concept is believed by many in the world. Their definition of this God seem to vary

3. The journey described is understandable. The question is if this jorney is a way all other religions describe to resolve a seeming problem arising out of another belief.

If for example a fear of Papa Karma from prior births ( a belief) is replaced by Original Sin (due to Eve eating a fruit) and if scripture (Veda) is replaced by another (Bible) the arguement to an alien would appear the same. In other words the whole 'logic' after initial injected beliefs causing fear is invariant across religions.

Then a listener has to settle for a given description of God, unconditionally accept a given idea of an injected belief in the tradition and follow stated actions (ike surrender) to remove the fear.

4. I am not searching. I like to understand if someone has deep conviction to learn what causes them to have such a conviction and the basis for that.

 

[SANDHYAV]

DOTT 10, PARACHUTE, MY ANSWER IS no no and never

 

[SANDHYAV]

SORRY AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.

10 LOOKS LIKE a slanting 1, and the 0 looks like the head, i mean the INVERSE OF MUNDAM, bagavane!!!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Sandhya,

Some of your posts make me :twitch: and !
So, I just scroll down to escape from racking my brain! eace:

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Sandhya,

Some of your posts make me :twitch: and !
So, I just scroll down to escape from racking my brain! eace:

Someone appears to be heavily drunk or to have had a sunstroke. LOL

 

[Raji Ram]

Someone appears to be heavily drunk or to have had a sunstroke. LOL

Not me!! :lol:

No spirits and always