well said nannilam sir.
i repeat one cannot negate an unknown thing logically.
but can believe anything atheists are are believers of an inferior quality .
shunya vadam sollravan yar ? atmava niratmava?
Shri HRHK sir,
I do not know if we can always say that "an unknown thing cannot be negated". Are there not instances to the contrary in science? I am not sure but just wanting to know. Secondly, if a thing is "known", how then can it be negated (i.e., how can we say or prove that such a 'known' thing just does not exist?)
The root problem here in this thread is that it (the OP) tries to establish the existence of a God outside of Man (or living beings) whereas Buddhism, Jainism, Advaita etc., propose that there is no such separate God. The Theistic Religions depend crucially on such a proposition (i.e., an outside God whose authorized agents are the priesthood, temples and their priests, etc., not to speak of swamijis and gurus including some Godmen and God-women).
Atheists today mostly fail to be convinced by this latter "outside God". No attempt seems to have been made to find out their reactions to the real advaita.
. Dear Renu even i also cant see anything.....LOL . I will try to post in again later.Dear Brahin,
I am not able to see any image.It comes to my email as image posted but I can't see anything.
I don't know may be it's only me who can not see it or everyone else too can not see it.
. Dear Renu even i also cant see anything.....LOL . I will try to post in again later.
Dear Renu i totally agree with u still lot of reforms r needed to be done.Taken from USBrahmins yahoo groups
HOW TO RESUSCITATE SANATANA DHARMA.
Brahmins are supposed to be custodians of Sanatana Dharma.
From times immemorial, it is they who have either guided or misguided the people on this.
Even now, people hold them responsible for whatever bad has been happening in the community.
Hinduism is facing problems from many directions.
The very basics of the religion are being questioned and several of the followers are being weaned away from the fold. Youngsters question the various malpractices and there has been no convincing answers.
If this trend continues for some more years, the whole country may not continue even with the present status.
Whatever bad things are happening in Kashmir could repeat every where else also.
Under these circumstances, if we go on trying to justify all those practices which have been universally condemned, do you think we are serving the religion in any way?
Is it not the responsibility of the leaders of public opinion (the Brahmins) to admit mistakes and try to correct the situation?
The secret of the survival instinct of Hinduism is the scientific spirit exhibited throughout history. Whenever there was an upheaval, it has responded vigorously, intelligently and prudently. It is this vitality that gave birth to the various reform movements.
REFORM MOVEMENTS:-
The Upanishadic sages were the first reformers.
When the Rigvedic religion deteriorated to a maze of sacrifices, the sages rejected them and advised meditation and knowledge of the Atman.
Lord Krishna was the second reformer.
He brought out a balance and harmony among the Jnaana, Bhakti and Karma disciplines. His declaration of the nishkaama karma concept was his greatest contribution.
The third in this line was by Mahaaveera and Buddha.
They substituted dry logic with simple moral and ethical principles in order to achieve peace and joy here and now. However, these were misunderstood and it resulted in the desertion of vedic religion.
Shankara took birth at this stage to resuscitate and reestablish sanatana dharma.
Next stage was a series of invation by outside invadors.
There was a lot of change because of this in the social and religious fields.
In this critical period, several spiritual leaders came up and protected our religion by bringing in several new concepts like bhakti movement etc.,
This is the fifth reform movement.
With the advent of the British, there was a planned import of the cultural and religious ideas from the west.
Then, the sixth reform movement became necessary.
Raja Ram mohan Roy, Swami Dayanand Saraswati, Mahadev Goind Ranade, Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Swami Vivekananda were some of the important leaders.
So, Sanatana Dharma regained balance.
This effort continued under Ramana Maharshi, Aurobindo and a few institutions like Ramakrishna Mission, Chinmaya Mission, Divine Life society etc.
THE PRESENT PROBLEM
During the recent past, Hindu society has not been capable of raising to the required levels.
Caste animosities including the practice of untouchability are rampant.
The rise of Indian Nationalism is not upto the mark.
Infatuation with the glamour of western nations has resulted in aping their customs and manners at the cost of old and time tested values.
Family bonds are getting loosened.
There is damage to the psyche of children and the aged are being neglected.
There has been an aggressive posture by Semetic religions.
Proselytisation is uprooting the cultural and national moorings.
Hindu society has become a soft target for aggressive propagatorsof these religions.
There is an urgent need to provide a new look to the Hindu society.
Hindus have to be HINDUISED.
It is also necessary to remove the irrelevent aberrations. It is in this context that I was mentioning about removal of weeds in our beliefs. Some of them have already been removed by our ancestors and some more are still there. The people who can think have to consider these.
WHAT IS DHARMA ?
I had tried sometime back to provide the various definitions for the word Dharma.
The word is used in various senses down the ages and the meaning and scope have enlarged.
dhaaraNaat dharmam ityaahuh dharmO dhaarayatE prajaah
(it is dharma that upholds people).
Religious rites, ceremonies and observances , principles of conduct, privileges, duties and obligations of a man, even rules of law, customs and manners of society etc., can be included in the term dharma.
Mahaanaaraayana Upanishat says, dharmO vishvasya jagatah pratishtaa
(dharma is thefoundation on which the entire universe stands).
Dharma here means righteous behaviour based on truth and capable of bringing good to the whole creation.
DHARMA IN VEDAS/ UPANISHATS.
It is said that the term dharma occurs in Rigveda 56 times. Here, it has been used as duty or action which helps to sustain the world ( jagaddhaaraka karma).
In our journey towards perfection, while passing through several stages of spiritual development, in each stage, there will be certain duties and code of conduct. ChandOgya says,
“ trayO dharmaskandaa yajnOdhyayanaam daanamiti prathamaah ( performance of sacrifices, study of scriptures and giving gifts-the first).
The taittareeya Upanishad clearly uses the word to mean “obligatory works” (dharmam chara).
DHARMA IN THE EPICS
raamO vigrahavaan dharmaha (Rama is dharma personified).
To speak the truth and to keep up promises is the key note of dharma in the Ramayana.
He had set up new norms of dharma by accepting the hospitality of Guha and Shabari, by refusing to have more than one wife, by forcing Vibheeshana to perform the last rites of Ravana etc.,
The Mahabharatha gave the definition for dharma as “dhaaraNaat dharmamityaahuh.
Virtues like satya, and ahimsaa are extolled. The stories of Dharmavyaadha, Tulaadhaara etc., eulagise the performance of duties. It is here that worldly life and pursuits were given a decent place in the scheme of life.
The concept of “aapat dharma” was introduced here wherein relaxation of the well known moral standards in times of distress was allowed. THIS SHOWS THE ROBUST COMMON SENSE OF THE AUTHOR!!
DHARMA IN SMRITIS AND DHARMASHAASTRAAS.
Detailed instructions about the way of life helping us to be in tune with dharma are given in the smritis. These have a sociological bias.
Yaajnavalkya smriti interestingly gives an interesting instruction.
“srutih smritih sadaachaarah svasya cha priyamaatmaanaha smyaksankalpajaha kaamO dharmamoolam idam smritam”
(Vedas, smritis, usages of good men what is agreeable to oneself and desire born of deliberation – are recognized as source of dharma).
The concept of dharma has undergone an evolution over the years always keeping the core meaning.
DHARMA IS NOT A STAGNANT CONCEPT.
One may observe that the social laws, customs and manners have been constantly changed depending on the needs of the times.
Manu goes to the extent of saying that when a dharma is hated or disliked by people it must be given up. (Manu 4.176.)
We may see that over the years, the rules and regulations have changed to suit the tastes and needs of the people keeping the central spiritual principles in tact. Criticism of vedic ritualism in the upanishats, changes in the anulOma marriages and foods, kalivarjya principles (like animal sacrifice etc.) indicate that Hindu society was always dynamic and not stagnant. The sages were endowed with a lot of common sense.
Thus, we see that dharma has always been dynamic and a real force to reckon with in our national life. If this fact is kept in mind all could live in peace and happiness. Then, the vyasa’s saying, “DharmO rakshati rakshitah” would be true.
It is true that certain practices which initially came with a purpose might have lost all meaning during the modern times when conditions have changed. My point is that whatever is found to be unreasonable beyond doubt, have to be removed.
My request is to be able to view the religion apart from the mythological, ritualistic and sociological forms in which Hinduism is embedded.
Vedanta has to be interpreted as a religious philosophy independent of the caste system or mythology or rites and ceremonies. What really matters is the the philosophy based on spiritual experience and not the particular social arrangements or the beliefs in particular deities. The soul of a religion is different from its body. While the soul is imperishable, the body is perishable. The various myths, rites etc., are parts of the body.
Please consider the following with a calm mind.
The social reform movement started with Raja Ram Mohan Roy's agitation against Sati.
Today, Sati has become an incredible thing of the past.
Child marriages and polygamy have become illegal.
Widow marriages have been made possible.
There is provision for divorces.
Foreign travel has become very common.
There is no ban for inter caste dining.
Caste system has become less rigid.
The demon of untouchability is almost dead.
Women have become educated and are occupying highest offices.
The list can go on.
That shows that the ice has been broken in all directions and further progress is necessary. We cannot go back to the evil customs and harmful restrictions of the age of decadence.
There is a dire need to adjust the teachings of Hinduism to the scientific thought and the political and social philosophies.
The contemporary scientific knowledge which in their time they interpreted to arrive at the various darshanas are now largely obsolete. Knowledge of the world has increased tremendously, society has grown infinitely more complex and the ideas of the rights and duties of men have undergone a thorough change.
So, in the twenty first century, it is necessary to reinterpret the religion in terms of our new knowledge. In a way, a beginning was made by Dr. Radhakrishnan in his book, THE REIGN OF RELIGION AND AN IDEALISTIC VIEW OF LIFE. Herein, he has reviewed all the contemporary scientific and philosophical systems of the west in the light of Vedantic idealism and interpreted that in relation to developments.
Then, we could see that the Upanishadic philosophy comes home with a new meaning and fresh application to our own social problems.
It is also necessary to bring a feeling that the whole Hindu society in all the states of India is one community with common temporal and spiritual interests. This was perhaps seen for the first time when Vivekananda came back from Chicago when the whole society rose as one man to honour the great patriot- monk.
Unity is indeed the crying need of the hour. Lack of unity among Hindus has been the cause of all the misfortunes from times immemorial.
THE BANE OF HINDU SOCIETY
Let me now take one problem first.
If a christian missionary were to ask a Hindu whether he believed in one God or many Gods, whether he believed in fate or free will, in existence of a heaven and hell, he cannot answer. If he goes to a family priest for clearing his doubts, the priest does not know anything beyond the round of ritual and mechanical conducts.
Priests in general should be centres of light and learning on religious matters.
So, there is a need for devising suitable schemes of religious education for the youth and proper training for the priests.
The present practice of teaching obscurantist and bigoted type of religion(by some others) is fraught with great danger.
A qualified priest should be a man of general culture and should be able to explain the significance of the ritual he conducts and point out its vital connection with the philosophy of Hinduism. Temples should also become places of religious instruction. Bigoted, caste ridden, narrow minded pundits cannot provide proper instructions.
The English clergy attracts some of the most brilliant men to enter the church and become leaders of religious thoughts. This should be followed by offering good remuneration to the priests. It is only when the highly educated and properly qualified men join the priestly orders that the various cobwebs of superstition could be removed and a contact would be established between the philosophy and rituals.
It is necessary to realise that rituals and learning are only aids to religion. The essence of religion is in the constant awareness of the presence of God and of loving fellowship with Him. There cannot be religious man without being Moral. Strength of character is more important that religiosity.
The basic rite of the vedic religion was Yajna(sacrifice). It became pooja (worship) where God is represented by an icon sanctified by special rites. Whereas temples played no part in vedic religion, the country has become a land of temples now.
The animal sacrifices of the vedic period gradually disappeared. It should be remembered that there was a practice of human sacrifice also in the middle ages. The tantric, shaaktic followers had various other practices. Some of the Tantric rites had broken all taboos of Hinduism. Brahmins also followed some of these practices especially in eastern India.
In its long history reaching back to unrecorded history, Sanatana dharma has had its share of sects and doctrines, of reformations and revivals. But the essential part of the core is unchanged.
This core can be summarised as follows:
1. God exists.
2.He can be realised.
3. The supreme goal of human existence is this realisation.
4.There are different ways to achieve this.
There are several beliefs amongst us which have scientific reasons. At the same time there are several others which have none and are to be considered as superstitions. These require to be removed too if we have to satisfy the youngsters who are also science and logic oriented. If someone says that we have to maintain every thing that is old, it does not impress the thinking mind.
Shivashankararao
In its long history reaching back to unrecorded history, Sanatana dharma has had its share of sects and doctrines, of reformations and revivals. But the essential part of the core is unchanged.
This core can be summarised as follows:
1. God exists.
2.He can be realised.
3. The supreme goal of human existence is this realisation.
4.There are different ways to achieve this.
There are several beliefs amongst us which have scientific reasons. At the same time there are several others which have none and are to be considered as superstitions. These require to be removed too if we have to satisfy the youngsters who are also science and logic oriented. If someone says that we have to maintain every thing that is old, it does not impress the thinking mind.
Shivashankararao
Dear Renu i totally agree with u still lot of reforms r needed to be done.