GOD - What is the benefit for him/her/it ??

[sravna]

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Aiyyo Sravna,

Thats actually not my concept... I read it in some text.
You can even Google search and you will find many sites with the same word "Desireless Desire" used.

As it is I have been "accused" of a "crime" I didnt commit.
The crime of so called cooking up a terminology!!LOL

Renuka,

But you have brought up a good point. In a sense it answers, Ashoks question that God need not have a benefit to create the world.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sravana Ji,

Again, I am mystified by your response. In Hinduism there is no such thing as what is 'better' in absolute sense. It is all relative, based on a 'soul's' journey in the current life, based on it's purva karma.

So, nothing is better or worse - it all depends on the stage of one's jivatma, vis-a-vis it's journey towards the final realization.

I really think, it would be good if you find a Guru, who would bestow his graces on you. I think you will benefit from that.

Regards,
KRS

Dear Shri KRS Ji,

Yes the concept of dharma in Hinduism is not absolute. But you can always go one level higher and decide which among the dharmas is the best. So the answer to the question whether egoless state is better or not than the egoistic one , it is a YES. Whether it can accomplish as much as or better than the latter, the answer is again a YES. I think this is what we are debating.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravana Ji,

Again, I am mystified by your response. In Hinduism there is no such thing as what is 'better' in absolute sense. It is all relative, based on a 'soul's' journey in the current life, based on it's purva karma.

So, nothing is better or worse - it all depends on the stage of one's jivatma, vis-a-vis it's journey towards the final realization.

I really think, it would be good if you find a Guru, who would bestow his graces on you. I think you will benefit from that.

Regards,
KRS

Dear Shri KRS Ji,

Do you mean to say that a soul that is closer to self realization is no better than the one that is steeped in worldly desires? This is what I would call as a mystifying response. There might not be spelling out of which is better or worse. But surely one can understand.

 

[Raji Ram]

........ (vidiya vidiya raamayanam kettu...!!!) I hope, you can understand!!!

S! We understand very well. But, I am reminded of one of the recent thread's title.

Do you get it? Ok... No suspense!
'Chummaak kidandha sangai .......' ound:

 

[Ashokindeed]

chummak kidantha sangai oothalaiye ...!!!

en kitta iruntha sangathaan oothinen !!!!

ange oothi keduthan Andi...???

inge oothi petraan(knowledge) Ashok..!!

lot of differences ..!! ' ound: *

hmmm ... (LOLZ)

S! We understand very well. But, I am reminded of one of the recent thread's title.

Do you get it? Ok... No suspense!
'Chummaak kidandha sangai .......' ound:

 

[ozone]

Extremely Sorry !! (vidiya vidiya raamayanam kettu...!!!)

I hope, you can understand!!!

Dear Sri Ashok,
I am unable to understand and seek some explanation if you dont mind.
Which one are you referring to as raamayanam? who are the listeners?
(and of course the doubt around vidiya vidiya, which I can skip)

 

[Ashokindeed]

OZONE sir,

That sentence is not related to any of our post..!!! I was just trying to say, everyone explained about what they think about the question I raised. But I have not got the any straight answers. Hence I was referring that proverb,, !!

nothing else sir. !!!

 

[ozone]

OZONE sir,

That sentence is not related to any of our post..!!! I was just trying to say, everyone explained about what they think about the question I raised. But I have not got the any straight answers. Hence I was referring that proverb,, !!

nothing else sir. !!!

You didnt get an answer?
or are you not convinced with any of the answers?
Or, are you looking for a specific answer?

 

[Ashokindeed]

Or, are you looking for a specific answer?

Yes,more specific ..??? !!!

 

[sarma-61]

Respected elders,

I started this thread just clarify certain subject & with great respect to all, I am sincerely thank you so much for your contribution.

Now, this thread has taken up a new direction/ dimension & new thoughts pouring in from you people.

like, I want to mention " desireless desire " Ahamkara, (Renuka Mam`s exceptional philosophies....!!!)

By the way, still I did not have a straight answers from anyone !!! I am analysing every post which has been posted here. But one or other way I could not able to make it.

Extremely Sorry !! (vidiya vidiya raamayanam kettu...!!!)

I hope, you can understand!!!

Shri Ashokindeed sir,

I feel you have not read my posting #29 in this thread.

To refresh, this God is the thing which activates your body and makes each cell therein perform its functions properly, until some serious breakdown happens to the body when this power of life is no longer able to operate. But unlike man-made machines and gadgets repair to the body after it is dead (i.e., after the life power leaves it completely) is impossible as of today; the body has to be junked.

Since this life-power or energy is a ஜடசக்தி in reality, it has nothing to benefit from this world. It is also to be noted that this life power may simply be giving us a mirage-like experience of a three-dimensional universe which appears solid and real to us but is in reality non-existent. Even if this is not true, we can have no idea as to who created this universe and for what. We are powerless in the matter.

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Asoke,
I believe that you asked this question in sincerity.

Suddenly I raised my hand and asked him " having said that, god has created us and he is directing us, WHAT IS THE BENEFIT HE/SHE/IT is going to get out of it?

What is the benefit for the sun to burn itself? Why is there energy? Why is there space? These questions can not be answered by our limited senses. Similarly I do not believe that we can answer your question at this time. The question for us is why we are here? That is the question we all are finding out for ourselves. Our purpose is to find our destination and progress towards it.

If you are farmer your job is to find out the best seed, and get the best yield. But if you get bogged down by the question of why was the seed born in the first place you are not going to be any good at producing the crop.

I know I did not give you a one line answer, and may be that is what every other poster is trying to tell you.

 

[Ashokindeed]

Now, I got your point of View sir.

Thank you

Shri Ashokindeed sir,

I feel you have not read my posting #29 in this thread.

To refresh, this God is the thing which activates your body and makes each cell therein perform its functions properly, until some serious breakdown happens to the body when this power of life is no longer able to operate. But unlike man-made machines and gadgets repair to the body after it is dead (i.e., after the life power leaves it completely) is impossible as of today; the body has to be junked.

Since this life-power or energy is a ஜடசக்தி in reality, it has nothing to benefit from this world. It is also to be noted that this life power may simply be giving us a mirage-like experience of a three-dimensional universe which appears solid and real to us but is in reality non-existent. Even if this is not true, we can have no idea as to who created this universe and for what. We are powerless in the matter.

 

[Ashokindeed]

Yes, I have raised this question in a very sincere manner.

What is the benefit for the sun to burn itself? Why is there energy? Why is there space? These questions can not be answered by our limited senses. Similarly I do not believe that we can answer your question at this time.

I got your point of view. yeah, of course, some of the mystery can not be revealed by us with our limited sense.

It was a try to tap out some thing out of it & that was a prime objective. I do believe that when I am thinking alone can not make things happen, the reason being I put in front of all.

Now as I said, some of our friends have given some different direction to it.

From all perspective, we will analyze and we will debate.

Thank you for your assistance.

With Warm regards
Ashok

Mr. Asoke,
I believe that you asked this question in sincerity.



What is the benefit for the sun to burn itself? Why is there energy? Why is there space? These questions can not be answered by our limited senses. Similarly I do not believe that we can answer your question at this time. The question for us is why we are here? That is the question we all are finding out for ourselves. Our purpose is to find our destination and progress towards it.

If you are farmer your job is to find out the best seed, and get the best yield. But if you get bogged down by the question of why was the seed born in the first place you are not going to be any good at producing the crop.

I know I did not give you a one line answer, and may be that is what every other poster is trying to tell you.

 

[Raghy]

Dear Sri.KRS, Greetings.

After a long block of shifts, my day off started today. I was spending the day with my wife. The wedding went very well. If I have to copy Hanuman's short, sweet, to the point style of convying a message like 'கண்டேன் சீதையை !', then I should say 'அடைந்தேன் இன்னொரு மகளை!'. I shall write the details tomorrow, please!

Creetings!

 

[Ashokindeed]

With all your Points, during this weekend, I was exploring this question in a larger perspective.



I met one man (Mr. Gurudev, Male 65 years old, he looks like a Sanyaasi, well educated & having a group of 6 people).

He was expressing his point of view . I would like to highlight it here.

The benefit of god is we as a human being only .. +++



He says "ancient days, people were afraid of natural things such as sun,river,moon etc., and when revolution came in to the picture, people were giving lots of dimensions to god, but it is a particle (force) where every lively things are attached to it,

That particle even controls nature, we as a human beings, animals, earth & other planets. He was stressing GOD as "IT"




Around 800 - 1000 years back, people started giving a shape to it, they do not know how to keep it simple, hence they have designed the god such a way that it can looks like a Human being.



That tradition followed even before 200 - 300 years back, whomever did extraordinary activities to protect particular group of people, they started believing him/her as a GOD. After they die, the next generation forms a statue to feel their presence.



To conclude, God is like AIR & temples are like a fans where you can feel the air by your sense. By the by AIR is there everywhere" !!!!!


PS:
Most of our Gods are having Vahanams, weapons, looks like a human being, NAMES ARE ALSO COINCIDES with our human`s name pattern....!!!



Different aspect ???

What do you think about his statement ????!!!!


++++ I was not having much time to defend or counter argue ...!!!

 

[renuka]

With all your Points, during this weekend, I was exploring this question in a larger perspective.



I met one man (Mr. Gurudev, Male 65 years old, he looks like a Sanyaasi, well educated & having a group of 6 people).

He was expressing his point of view . I would like to highlight it here.

The benefit of god is we as a human being only .. +++



He says "ancient days, people were afraid of natural things such as sun,river,moon etc., and when revolution came in to the picture, people were giving lots of dimensions to god, but it is a particle (force) where every lively things are attached to it,

That particle even controls nature, we as a human beings, animals, earth & other planets. He was stressing GOD as "IT"




Around 800 - 1000 years back, people started giving a shape to it, they do not know how to keep it simple, hence they have designed the god such a way that it can looks like a Human being.



That tradition followed even before 200 - 300 years back, whomever did extraordinary activities to protect particular group of people, they started believing him/her as a GOD. After they die, the next generation forms a statue to feel their presence.



To conclude, God is like AIR & temples are like a fans where you can feel the air by your sense. By the by AIR is there everywhere" !!!!!


PS:
Most of our Gods are having Vahanams, weapons, looks like a human being, NAMES ARE ALSO COINCIDES with our human`s name pattern....!!!



Different aspect ???

What do you think about his statement ????!!!!


++++ I was not having much time to defend or counter argue ...!!!

You know there is a saying that goes "Ekam Sat Viprah Bahuda Vadanti" that means.."That which exists is One,the learned call it by various names"

So it really doesnt matter how we define and call God.

Knowing God is like a MCQ(Multiple Choice Question) exam paper with a twist.

You have multiple choices of answers.
All answers are right.
You mark the paper yourself cos you are both the student and the teacher.

 

[Raji Ram]

Sri. Gurudev says the same concept in an elaborate manner:

இறைவன் / இறைவியர் மனித இனத்தால் உருவாக்கப்பட்டவர்கள். உலகம் முழுதும் இறைவனால் படைக்கபட்டது

என்றும், இறைவனே காக்கின்றான் என்றும், இறைவனே அழிக்கின்றான் என்றும் நம்புகிறோம். :decision:

 

[Ashokindeed]

Renu & Raji Mam.... I have gone through this conversation about our subject ...!!!


Professor : You are a Christian, aren’t you, son ?

Student : Yes, sir.

Professor: So, you believe in GOD ?

Student : Absolutely, sir.

Professor : Is GOD good ?

Student : Sure.

Professor: Is GOD all powerful ?

Student : Yes.

Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn’t. How is this GOD good then? Hmm?

(Student was silent.)

Professor: You can’t answer, can you ? Let’s start again, young fella. Is GOD good?

Student : Yes.

Professor: Is satan good ?

Student : No.

Professor: Where does satan come from ?

Student : From … GOD …

Professor: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

Student : Yes.

Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct?

Student : Yes.

Professor: So who created evil ?

(Student did not answer.)

Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they?

Student : Yes, sir.

Professor: So, who created them ?

(Student had no answer.)

Professor: Science says you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen GOD?

Student : No, sir.

Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your GOD?

Student : No , sir.

Professor: Have you ever felt your GOD, tasted your GOD, smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any sensory perception of GOD for that matter?

Student : No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t.

Professor: Yet you still believe in Him?

Student : Yes.

Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?

Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.

Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has.

Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

Professor: Yes.

Student : And is there such a thing as cold?

Professor: Yes.

Student : No, sir. There isn’t.

(The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.)

Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness?

Student : You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?

Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ?

Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how?

Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.

Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.)

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class was in uproar.)

Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain?

(The class broke out into laughter. )

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable.)

Professor: I guess you’ll have to take them on faith, son.

Student : That is it sir … Exactly ! The link between man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that keeps things alive and moving.

P.S.

I believe you have enjoyed the conversation. I did...

By the way, that student was EINSTEIN.

 

[renuka]

Renu & Raji Mam.... I have gone through this conversation about our subject ...!!!


Professor : You are a Christian, aren’t you, son ?

Student : Yes, sir.

Professor: So, you believe in GOD ?

Student : Absolutely, sir.

Professor : Is GOD good ?

Student : Sure.

Professor: Is GOD all powerful ?

Student : Yes.

Professor: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to GOD to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But GOD didn’t. How is this GOD good then? Hmm?

(Student was silent.)

Professor: You can’t answer, can you ? Let’s start again, young fella. Is GOD good?

Student : Yes.

Professor: Is satan good ?

Student : No.

Professor: Where does satan come from ?

Student : From … GOD …

Professor: That’s right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?

Student : Yes.

Professor: Evil is everywhere, isn’t it ? And GOD did make everything. Correct?

Student : Yes.

Professor: So who created evil ?

(Student did not answer.)

Professor: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things exist in the world, don’t they?

Student : Yes, sir.

Professor: So, who created them ?

(Student had no answer.)

Professor: Science says you have 5 Senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son, have you ever seen GOD?

Student : No, sir.

Professor: Tell us if you have ever heard your GOD?

Student : No , sir.

Professor: Have you ever felt your GOD, tasted your GOD, smelt your GOD? Have you ever had any sensory perception of GOD for that matter?

Student : No, sir. I’m afraid I haven’t.

Professor: Yet you still believe in Him?

Student : Yes.

Professor : According to Empirical, Testable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says your GOD doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?

Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.

Professor: Yes, faith. And that is the problem Science has.

Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?

Professor: Yes.

Student : And is there such a thing as cold?

Professor: Yes.

Student : No, sir. There isn’t.

(The lecture theater became very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don’t have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.

(There was pin-drop silence in the lecture theater.)

Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?

Professor: Yes. What is night if there isn’t darkness?

Student : You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and its called darkness, isn’t it? In reality, darkness isn’t. If it is, well you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?

Professor: So what is the point you are making, young man ?

Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.

Professor: Flawed ? Can you explain how?

Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good GOD and a bad GOD. You are viewing the concept of GOD as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, Science can’t even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.

Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

Professor: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.

Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?

(The Professor shook his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument was going.)

Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor. Are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?

(The class was in uproar.)

Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor’s brain?

(The class broke out into laughter. )

Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor’s brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established Rules of Empirical, Stable, Demonstrable Protocol, Science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?

(The room was silent. The Professor stared at the student, his face unfathomable.)

Professor: I guess you’ll have to take them on faith, son.

Student : That is it sir … Exactly ! The link between man & GOD is FAITH. That is all that keeps things alive and moving.

P.S.

I believe you have enjoyed the conversation. I did...

By the way, that student was EINSTEIN.

Dear Ashok,

Now I wonder who really made up this joke..cos sometimes its written that its Einstein and sometimes as Dr APJ Abdul Kalam..dont know yaar which is right but what I know is God Exists and this is a good kick in the rear for anyone who feels there is no one above him/her.