Shri Rajprasad,
Interesting topic. Saw this just now or wud have posted something earlier.
Considering the mixing, churning, reinventing, wars, and so on, IMO gotras only have a cultural value and an academic value these days. IMO it wud be ridiculous to claim biological descent based on gotras, kootams, clans or any such concept in present times.
Having said this, hope we can follow up your post as an academic exercise. I request Sangom sir and other knowledgable people to kindly correct things which are wrong below.
I am sorry that has no scientific bearing. I meat a Rajput in Jaipur, a Katri in Jalandhar, and a Reddy in Hydrabad all with the same gothram is mine. I can assure you we can not have any ancestor in common.
I have not heard of the concept of gotras prevailing amongst reddys. If you say it exists, please cud you provide some reference for it.
Wikipedia is not an authority you can quote as reference. 99% of the world does not know their Gothram. Only Brahmain carry this a badge of honor to humiliate others in puja by asking for this. No one knows what is true gotram, we just go with what was told to us. If you are so sure of your facts tell me the gothram of Pandavas. And how would you determine their gothram, would it of the Kuru Vansh?
Perhaps it is possible that the Kurus came from a system which did not follow gotras. And hence the kurus did not mention their gotras in the Mahabharat (??). I suspect the kurus were following the system of clans and clan-based divisions during that time and not the system of brahmanical gotras (possibly the system of brahmanical gotras were not created during that time).
It is hilarious that we carry this gothram thing as if it is scientific. In ISKON every convert is given a Gothram, please dont tell me that their is a male lineage.
I feel perhaps ISCKON is following the buddhist concept of assigning gotras "based on spiritual lineage" but is instead using names of 'vedic' rishis...In case anyone thinks brahmanical gotras are the same as Buddhist gotras, please let me mention this excerpt from
here :
The word gotra is frequently used in the literature of Mahayana Buddhism to denote categories of persons classified according to their psychological, intellectual, and spiritual types. The chief types usually mentioned in this kind of classification are the Auditors making up the irdvaka-gotra, the Individual Buddhas making up the pratyehabitddha-gotra, and the Bodhisattvas making up the bodhisattva-gotra... Each of the first three categories is thus comprised of persons capable of achieving a particular kind of maturity and spiritual perfection in accordance with their specific type or class, the Auditor then attaining the Awakening (bodhi) characteristic of the Sravaka and so on...
In Tamil Nadu the Vellar also have gothram
AFAIK Velalars have kootams, a concept based on clans (kulams), and clan-divisions. It is claimed (on blogs and caste sites) that they derive their name from Vel (lance), and hence have a so-called 'kshatriya' tradition of gotras/kootams.
It must be remembered that Vellalas were classed as Keezhor in the Tholkappiyam. Its not possible that a set of farmers facing troubles with the Chola establishment as agricultural slaves suddenly end up as elite soilders and army commanders of the Chola kingdom.
IMO vellalars had remained farmers in the Chola domains, but there was an other set of Vellalars (Velirs akin to kaikollars) who arose from the Velams (harems) and served as elite military people. However this structure must have broken down after cholas were defeated.
Subsequently, over time, the velalar farmers must have merged with the Velam outputs. And thus enjoined upon themselves the system of Kootams and Pangalis. Prior to this, the system of kootams may have only belonged to the velirs or velam outputs owning lands and dividing lands as pangalis (shareholders).
Quite possibly only in times much later to this breakdown did sanskritisation events led to kallars, maravars, agamudiayars being elevated as vellalars. Therefore imo, the concept of Kootams, (or so called 'gotras') amongst various groups claiming to be Vellalars, is not a very clear cut form of descent (as they claim it to be).
The same situation must have prevailed in other southern indian states. We must also remember that before the situation of warfare and formation of kingdoms, peasantisation / sanskritisation events of tribals converting into 'castes' may have caused them to adopt a 'gotra' based on the village in which they settled.
Since a village signified a clan's breakaway settlement, thus tribals wud have got absorbed into a clan as well. In this manner, so called blood-based kinship structures may have been created with older structures getting destroyed at different periods in historical times. So the concept remained, and got propagated like a cultural transplant but the innards always kept changing.
All the same, we must remember that the concept of clans, exogamy, village settlements are all tribal concept and it is difficult to date back totemic observances. Therefore the system of kootams (clan-based division) could be an ancient concept (older than the concept of gotras) though it got corrupted over time.
Now the whole concept of gotras is puzzling. Firstly, there is no concept of gotras as male lineages in the vedas and vedanta texts. AFAIK there are no gotras in the brahmanas (texts), aranyakas, either.
The concept of gotras male lineages are first mentioned by Yaska and Panini. Question is why and how was the concept of gotras derived based on rishis long after the vedic period. Is it possible that the brahmanas (texts) were formed just a few centuries before the period of Yaska and Panini; and therefore during the period of Yaska and Panini, it became necessary to list out gotras to demarcate and enumerate which one was arsha and which one was non-arsha (non-brahmanical) ??
The Ashtadhyayi of Panini says Vamsya is the founder of a family (that is, one from whom a family derived its lineage and surname) and thus the term Vamsya is inclusive of the word Vriddha and Gotra [Ref: "Gotras in Pāṇini: an exposition with a critical text of the Gotras in the Ashṭādhyāyī" published by the Banaras Hindu University]. So the Vamsa (clan concept) was inextricably linked to gotra.
Gothra is not exactly a family-based lineage, but rather refers to many lineages emerging from the same village. In the olden days of the rishis or seers, people of many castes and communities would place themselves under the tutelage of a teacher or set of teachers, who would instruct each family on the portions of the Vedas that applied to their specific interests in terms of career, vocational skills, marriage, spirituality, and so on. The village would be named after the leading rishi, and the people belonging to that village would take upon that Rishi's name as a means of identifying themselves when they travelled. Many of the descendants of these original peoples have held onto this 'gothra' out of sentiment and tradition.
I request you to provide some basis on which you have mentioned the above. AFAIK, the concept of gotras is supposed to date to the period when there was a 'merger' between the aryan tribes with others. Perhaps you will find this excerpt interesting from a book "Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics" by John Selbie, p.355:
The Bhargavas and Angirasas, in virtue of their relation to the Atharvaveda, were more closely allied to the warrior than to the Brahman caste; even according to the brahmanical tradition they belong, together with the Kashyapas and the Vashistas, to the mulagotrani, the original and truly ancient gotras; while the other gotras as the Mahabharata puts it became great by the merit of their works. In this passage we light once more upon the antagonism that prevailed between certain gotras - an antagonism which was in no sense confined to the matters of ritual already referred to, but made itself felt also in political life. That rivalry for political supremacy was the main factor in the conflicts between the Vashistas and the Vishwamitras need hardly be doubted. The former were in the secret possession of a doctrine, a brahmanam - the twenty nine stomabhaga maxims - and it was on this account that the Bharatas always chose their purohitas from among the Bharatas.
People not knowing their gothra, or those outside of this system such as Westerners, will generally refer to themselves as belonging to Vishnu gothra, since Vishnu, the All-pervading spirit of the Universe, rests in the heart of all beings, and as a result belongs to all Gothras.
Maybe this will interest you:
As against Varsinivrddha (KB vii 4) the sutra lists all have Visnuvrddha a form which is further suported by later inscriptions. Here the replacement of Vrsni - by the better known Visnu - may have been assisted by a semi-prakritic form *visni-
Read more here about divergences in sutra lists -
The Early Brahmanical System of Gotra and Pravara (p.xiii).
In Kamma community if you know your last name you can find your Gotram. Kappu community even have website to determine your gothram.
Surnames and Gotralu
This kapu list differs from the list professed by the ones settled in tamilnadu (the ones settled there since a very long time). In any case, please do not beleive this nonsense.
Anyways, perhaps this could interest you :
The gotra of the Kaundinyas, which traces its descent from Vasistha, and to which belonged, as we saw above, the wife of Mahavira, the founder of the Jain sect, takes its name, as does the gotra of the Kapis, from the ape; and in the passage of the Kacchapajataka where it is said to the tortoise which had fastened upon the genital parts of an ape, ''Tortoises are Kasyapas, apes are Kaundinyas ; Kasyapa let go the Kaundinya, thou has effected copulation'' - we have an allusion - in terms of the beast-fable - to the matrimonial relations subsisting between the two human families..
[Ref: Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, p.358].
Regards.
