How much do parents owe their children for bringing them into this world?

[kunjuppu]

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South Korea's rapid economic rise leaves many of its elderly facing poverty

this story in the guardian weekly is from south korea. their culture, was atleast, till recently similar to ours. beliefinhardwork education discipline respectforelders takecareofelders parentsspentalltheirmoneyforeducation and such.

the country today ranks among the first world in terms of prosperity technology lifestyle loneliness speedofthings and much more. but the youth chasing these dreams, or forced to chase these by their parents, have moved so far away from their roots, that today taking care of parents is not even in their agenda of 'to do's.

i suspect all of us here, are fairly well off, to the extent we educated our children, sent our sons to usa, married off our daughters and still have a wee bit left for our livelihood. not all. but most of us. no?

how many of us depend on our sons monetarily? how many sons (with blessing of dil) are willing to provide support financially? how many are wholly and freely willing to host their parents in their old age?

which comes to my point here. the white folks, do not pay, as a rule, for their children's university education. the kids work part time, get grants, and borrow money to meet the gap. it is a rare white kid, who comes out of university without a debt. compare that to indian kids in india/usa and chinese kids .. where mommydaddy pay not only for their education, but also for their entertainment. in fact it is considered an entitlement in these cultures.

i dont know now, but i had relatives, who scraped the bottom of their PF to marry off their daughters, and had to ask for 5 one rupee coins, to give their grandchildren at vishu time.

most of us are past. but should we suggest to those of us in their 40s, not to burn their entire wealth on their children and forced to go with a begging bowl in their old age.

what price is success? i know, my mom, would have wished, that i had not 'succeeded' to such an extent, to leave india. how many parents, here with their children in the usa, wish the same?

a close relative with two daughters, specifically asked for grooms in the usa as he was convinced that india was bound for goonda raj and did not wish his daughters to be living there. he was confident of spending alone his old age in india with his wife. a few months ago, he applied to immigrate to usa. i figure we have an inherent need to live close to our children when we age. if not with them. atleast within our sight. no?

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

In the life of a man, childhood is an important phase that influences to a large extent his personality. The influence of the parents is the most at that time. So it is the responsibility of the parents to sow into the mind of the child, the seeds of maturity. If every parent can do this successfully , they have done enough for bringing the children into the world. Then the sons and daughters I am sure would take care of themselves after a certain stage very capably.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

In the life of a man, childhood is an important phase that influences to a large extent his personality. The influence of the parents is the most at that time. So it is the responsibility of the parents to sow into the mind of the child, the seeds of maturity. If every parent can do this successfully , they have done enough for bringing the children into the world. Then the sons and daughters I am sure would take care of themselves after a certain stage very capably.

You got be kidding. Have you seen the movie Baghban.

An elderly couple wish their children to care for them in their old age. But their children see and treat them as a burden, and they must struggle to regain their worth and dignity to themselves and others.

That is the reality in most cases.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

In the life of a man, childhood is an important phase that influences to a large extent his personality. The influence of the parents is the most at that time. So it is the responsibility of the parents to sow into the mind of the child, the seeds of maturity. If every parent can do this successfully , they have done enough for bringing the children into the world. Then the sons and daughters I am sure would take care of themselves after a certain stage very capably.

dear sravana,

i have to agree with prasad1 post #3 on this. wishful thinking. tit for tat you say. sorry friend it does not work that way. dont put yourself in this position and suffer the anguish sir. plan to be self sufficient. God Bless.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Kunjuppu and Shri Prasad,

Both of you got me wrong. I did not say that parents depend on their children but only that the children would take care of themselves after a certain stage if they are properly brought up by the parents.

 

[biswa]

I am of the opinion that one should not expect anything from one's children. One should save enough to get into a retirement facility and then hospice. Whatever you get from children, money or companionship is bonus.

That's why when my wife goes overboard for the kids, I try to tell her, no point doing so much for them, they wont really care. She gets upset, but I think such people are setting themselves up for disappointment.

 

[renuka]

I am of the opinion that one should not expect anything from one's children. One should save enough to get into a retirement facility and then hospice. Whatever you get from children, money or companionship is bonus.

That's why when my wife goes overboard for the kids, I try to tell her, no point doing so much for them, they wont really care. She gets upset, but I think such people are setting themselves up for disappointment.

I fully agree with what you wrote.

The best is not to hope to depend on anyone cos firstly we cant leech upon our kids later on in life cos they also have a life to lead and with increased cost of living etc it wont be fair to them too.

So a responsible parent should know to safe up for old age and not to burden their kids.

And also as Biswa rightly said..do NOT go overboard with anyone including kids..we have no idea how the future will be..so best is do our duty right..give the right amount of love and always think of best case scenario and worst case scenario and mentally prepare ourselves for both so when either one comes we are not down and out (in worst case scenario) or get carried away(in cases where everything turns out fine)

But sadly... hardly any female agrees with this ..mostly think that a mother should be just blindly loving their kids and anyone who does not do "blind love" for kids is lacking in maternal instincts.

There is no harm using our brains cos its good for the kids and us too.

 

[sravna]

I fully agree with what you wrote.

The best is not to hope to depend on anyone cos firstly we cant leech upon our kids later on in life cos they also have a life to lead and with increased cost of living etc it wont be fair to them too.

So a responsible parent should know to safe up for old age and not to burden their kids.

And also as Biswa rightly said..do NOT go overboard with anyone including kids..we have no idea how the future will be..so best is do our duty right..give the right amount of love and always think of best case scenario and worst case scenario and mentally prepare ourselves for both so when either one comes we are not down and out.

But sadly hardly any female agrees with this ..mostly think that a mother should be just blindly loving their kids and anyone who does not do blind love for kids is lacking in maternal instinct.

There is no harm using our brains cos its good for the kids and us too.

Dear Renuka,

Don't you think we are going the reverse way? When we should not only try to build even relationship other than parent kids , husband wife, we are trying to dilute and keep a distance even in a naturally strong relationship.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

Don't you think we are going the reverse way? When we should not only try to build even relationship other than parent kids , husband wife, we are trying to dilute and keep a distance even in a naturally strong relationship.

Dear Sravna,

We can go anyway..reverse..forward..sideways etc.

But reality is totally different from what we imagine.

I on my own enjoy my personal space and I also like to give others their personal space.


There is no question of diluting anywhere if we do our duties right..be a good spouse..be a good parent and a responsible citizen.

The problem arises when there is undue attachment and undue expectations.

Many people as they age impose themselves on their kids and make life of their kids difficult and some kids take undue advantage of their parents too.

For me its simple..I am quite "animal" like in thinking..I get my mate..procreate..survive..bring up the kids fine..teach them survival skills..they are on their own and let me find my own way.

 

[sravna]

The problem arises when there is undue attachment and undue expectations.

Dear Renuka,

I definitely agree with the above. I was saying problems will also arise if we try not to nurture the relationship. By that I do not mean depriving one of his personal space but only you have a constructive attitude towards the relationship.

As far as I am concerned my position on a relationship does not change because of the behavior of the other person.It is all in the mind finally.

 

[krish44]

South Korea's rapid economic rise leaves many of its elderly facing poverty

this story in the guardian weekly is from south korea. their culture, was atleast, till recently similar to ours. beliefinhardwork education discipline respectforelders takecareofelders parentsspentalltheirmoneyforeducation and such.

the country today ranks among the first world in terms of prosperity technology lifestyle loneliness speedofthings and much more. but the youth chasing these dreams, or forced to chase these by their parents, have moved so far away from their roots, that today taking care of parents is not even in their agenda of 'to do's.

i suspect all of us here, are fairly well off, to the extent we educated our children, sent our sons to usa, married off our daughters and still have a wee bit left for our livelihood. not all. but most of us. no?

how many of us depend on our sons monetarily? how many sons (with blessing of dil) are willing to provide support financially? how many are wholly and freely willing to host their parents in their old age?

which comes to my point here. the white folks, do not pay, as a rule, for their children's university education. the kids work part time, get grants, and borrow money to meet the gap. it is a rare white kid, who comes out of university without a debt. compare that to indian kids in india/usa and chinese kids .. where mommydaddy pay not only for their education, but also for their entertainment. in fact it is considered an entitlement in these cultures.

i dont know now, but i had relatives, who scraped the bottom of their PF to marry off their daughters, and had to ask for 5 one rupee coins, to give their grandchildren at vishu time.

most of us are past. but should we suggest to those of us in their 40s, not to burn their entire wealth on their children and forced to go with a begging bowl in their old age.

what price is success? i know, my mom, would have wished, that i had not 'succeeded' to such an extent, to leave india. how many parents, here with their children in the usa, wish the same?

a close relative with two daughters, specifically asked for grooms in the usa as he was convinced that india was bound for goonda raj and did not wish his daughters to be living there. he was confident of spending alone his old age in india with his wife. a few months ago, he applied to immigrate to usa. i figure we have an inherent need to live close to our children when we age. if not with them. atleast within our sight. no?

A brilliant post kunjuppuji
most of us would like to educate our children beyond our means so that they have a good career and life
not many think of retirement and life on retirement when we do such things.
it is very difficult for most to have a balanced finance portfolio and provide for themselves in old age in addition to educating and marrying of children in style. in most cases ,parents assume children will take care of them in the same way they took care of them.
it is wonderful to say become self sufficient and not go near children for support.ultimately it is the economics and physical need for help in old age. how many can survive on their own without children support someway or the other. they would like to be near them if not in the same house and have a lifestyle similar to their children
I know single income family where parents are in doldrums and wait in banks for remittance from US of A. in the beginning of every month. if you go to nanganallur nationalised banks in first week you will find lots of old brahmin men poorly dressed boasting about their children and anxiously looking for the monthly dole. the old ladies wait for a call from sons/dil so that they can go to US to serve them for pregnancy and the like. if you go coimbotore retirement homes you will get scores of brahmins discarded by their children. some children have even left money for last rites so that they are not disturbed on death of parents
this craze for dollars has broken up scores of brahmin families. even indian in US well off do not have the decency to care for the parents. they are treated as baggages to put up with. in delhi lot of old men are illtreated. you find them in milk queues early morning in peak winter,. old ladies cook for DILs so that they can go for work.
the family system has broken down. it is only husband and wife let parents be damned
those who were wise to purchase flats and opt for pension instead of PF are the lucky few who can survive on their own with a slightly degraded life style. for others it is only misery

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

I definitely agree with the above. I was saying problems will also arise if we try not to nurture the relationship. By that I do not mean depriving one of his personal space but only you have a constructive attitude towards the relationship.

As far as I am concerned my position on a relationship does not change because of the behavior of the other person.It is all in the mind finally.

Dear Sravna,

I did mention that one needs to do his/her duty right..be a good spouse..good parent..good citizen etc.

So by doing our duties right we do nurture the relationship..like how we water the plants to make sure they grow well.

When we use the word DUTY many people mistake it as being cold and sans emotions but in reality a person who does his duty right is a very loving person who does not take anyone for granted or let relationships be in auto pilot mode and expect it to last.

Now coming to personal space..one can be surrounded by hundreds of friends and relatives but yet the person can actually have a personal space in his/her mind..that is never hold on too tight to anyone..always prepare the mind for the good,the bad and the ugly.

We need to equip ourselves as how to face success and failures and also plateaus in life and relationships and be reasonable in expectations and results and if Plan A fails always have a Plan B and Plan C and so.

 

[ashwin_ash]

I know people who haven't come back to India even for performing their parents' last rites for fear of losing their 'status' in the US. It's a cold and selfish world, we have to get used to reality.

 

[sravna]

We need to equip ourselves as how to face success and failures and also plateaus in life and relationships and be reasonable in expectations and results and if Plan A fails always have a Plan B and Plan C and so.

Dear Renuka,

Frankly I do not feel the need for planning in a relationship. When you have no expectations from it where is the need to plan? So I prefer to stick to one plan which is not going to change

 

[tbs]

hi renumma,



We need to equip ourselves as how to face success and failures and also plateaus in life and relationships and be reasonable in expectations and results and if Plan A fails always have a Plan B and Plan C and so.


personally i feel like this......PLAN A.....PLAN B ......PLAN C.....PLAN D.....plan A means.....planning relationship according to own

choice.....plan B means some adjustments.....plan C means more compromises....plan D means destiny....our own karma....

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

Frankly I do not feel the need for planning in a relationship. When you have no expectations from it where is the need to plan? So I prefer to stick to one plan which is not going to change

Dear Sravna,

There are people who do not plan anything but make life for others hell in that process..they rule by iron fist!LOL

Ok Sravna..lets be practical:

In life we at least need to have these plans:


1) In case marriage fails...we need to make sure we have a a steady source of income for ourselves and kids...so its important for a woman to have a job.

2) In case we die..we need to make sure our dependents do not suffer..so make a will and safe up some so that our kids and spouse will have some money.

3)In case spouse dies..we need to make sure a steady source of income for ourselves and kids...so always make a will so that no relatives will contest anything in court.

4)In case our health fails..we need to have medical insurance.

5)In case in old age we get kicked out of the house by kids..so make sure they only inherit property upon our death..hence make a will.

6)In case we cant stand our daughter in law or son in law or cant stand the idea of grandkids running around making noise..make sure we locate a good home with facilities to keep us happy..for a good old age home we need to have some money..so safe up from now.

 

[renuka]

hi renumma,



We need to equip ourselves as how to face success and failures and also plateaus in life and relationships and be reasonable in expectations and results and if Plan A fails always have a Plan B and Plan C and so.


personally i feel like this......PLAN A.....PLAN B ......PLAN C.....PLAN D.....plan A means.....planning relationship according to own

choice.....plan B means some adjustments.....plan C means more compromises....plan D means destiny....our own karma....

Actually there is plan Z too!LOL

 

[ashwin_ash]

Actually there is plan Z too!LOL

And what's that plan Z? Adopt more kids so you can experience more disappointment?!

 

[krish44]

Dear Sravna,

There are people who do not plan anything but make life for others hell in that process..they rule by iron fist!LOL

Ok Sravna..lets be practical:

In life we at least need to have these plans:


1) In case marriage fails...we need to make sure we have a a steady source of income for ourselves and kids...so its important for a woman to have a job.

2) In case we die..we need to make sure our dependents do not suffer..so make a will and safe up some so that our kids and spouse will have some money.

3)In case spouse dies..we need to make sure a steady source of income for ourselves and kids...so always make a will so that no relatives will contest anything in court.

4)In case our health fails..we need to have medical insurance.

5)In case in old age we get kicked out of the house by kids..so make sure they only inherit property upon our death..hence make a will.

6)In case we cant stand our daughter in law or son in law or cant stand the idea of grandkids running around making noise..make sure we locate a good home with facilities to keep us happy..for a good old age home we need to have some money..so safe up from now.

renukaji
the post is cold bloodedly practical
most people see only good side of life and do not think of bad times
you are talking of planning for contingencies
people plan for good living and not death, health failure,old age,marriage failure,incompatible next generation though they are real possibilities. it might be a good idea to set apart 10percent or so of our income for such contingencies

 

[krish44]

hi renumma,



We need to equip ourselves as how to face success and failures and also plateaus in life and relationships and be reasonable in expectations and results and if Plan A fails always have a Plan B and Plan C and so.


personally i feel like this......PLAN A.....PLAN B ......PLAN C.....PLAN D.....plan A means.....planning relationship according to own

choice.....plan B means some adjustments.....plan C means more compromises....plan D means destiny....our own karma....

most would fall in between planB and C. they would be lucky if this happens and not depend on destiny planD

 

[krish44]

Dear Renuka,

Frankly I do not feel the need for planning in a relationship. When you have no expectations from it where is the need to plan? So I prefer to stick to one plan which is not going to change

It would be great if we have no expectations from any relationship. you have to be a little saintly for it. most relationships are on give and take ,only some are more give and less take.as with next generation.hence the misery and need of contingency plans of renukaji

 

[renuka]

renukaji
the post is cold bloodedly practical
most people see only good side of life and do not think of bad times
you are talking of planning for contingencies
people plan for good living and not death, health failure,old age,marriage failure,incompatible next generation though they are real possibilities. it might be a good idea to set apart 10percent or so of our income for such contingencies

Dear Krish ji,

Each time I travel abroad ..I hand over all important details including business details to spouse and parents so that in case I do not come back alive they know what to do.

Its just being practical..we can never know when death comes knocking.

 

[renuka]

And what's that plan Z? Adopt more kids so you can experience more disappointment?!

No idea..havent reached plan Z yet!

 

[krish44]

Dear Krish ji,

Each time I travel abroad ..I hand over all important details including business details to spouse and parents so that in case I do not come back alive they know what to do.

Its just being practical..we can never know when death comes knocking.

you are too young for all this.
I hae been a little smarter. I have handed over upto 75percent of whatI haveto spouse and children . only 25percent I have can take care of me for couple of lifetimes and I fully live it up.I do not worry about contingencies . the left overs others -whomsoever is smart can take it . no will or ill will etc

 

[renuka]

you are too young for all this.
I hae been a little smarter. I have handed over upto 75percent of whatI haveto spouse and children . only 25percent I have can take care of me for couple of lifetimes and I fully live it up.I do not worry about contingencies . the left overs others -whomsoever is smart can take it . no will or ill will etc

Age is no bar when it comes to being practical.

Its also being responsible so that others do not suffer when we are dead.