How to counter brahmin bashing??

[KRS]

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Dear Sri T.S. Sankara Narayanan Ji,

Criticism based on correct information is the backbone of any democracy.

Any valid criticism with appropriate language is welcome, especially if it is going to advance Hinduism in general and our condition as TBs in particular.

Instead of doing that sometimes you involve yourself in unsbstantiated rumours and vilify some people. Saying things about a person who recently passed away like the way you did should not be and will not be permitted in any decent Forum.

Now to the unsubstantiated rumours, passed on as 'fact': You said: "YSR gave encouragement to Mathew company (a Keralite Christian)to prepare Laddus in Thirupathy.This is flashed in all News Papers. That Mathew Company,instead of doing their jobs of Preparing Laddus issued Bit Notices in praise of Christ."

I was quite perturbed on hearing this and did some research. Now look at this news item: Tirupati temple eyes commodity futures!
Seems like the 'Mathew Company' you refer to has just installed commodity tracking systems in the temple. Nothing to do with 'laddu making'. See how an innocuous little thing mushrooms in to laddu making by Christians, where it is warned they may even add poison to it. My suspicion is that some folks in some right wing Hindu organization spun a story to create feelings against Christians deliberately. By repeating such nonsense you lose your credibility as well.

On the contrary, if you have some credible news account on turning over the laddu making to Christians by TDD, you are welcome to post it.

This is a challenge to substantiate your claim and we expect to see information that reflects the truth from a person none other than our great revolutionary's grandson. Wouldn't you agree?

Regards,
KRS

 

[RVR]

Please read the following news item.

Story of Tirupati laddu-2

http://archives.chennaionline.com/columns/variety/2005/04tirupati.asp

I understand Sri Kalyanam Iyengar is preparing Laddu and other items. I don't see any other news that Mathew company is preparing these items.

All the best

 

[venkatpasupathy]

DearSuper moderator,
I do not know whether the AP government gave a contract to Mr. Mathew for making laddus. I also read the post by Shri Venkataramniji where in it has been state that one Ramesh is preparing the laddus presently. So far so good. I understand from some source that the Andra Predesh government did make a liquor baron as Chairman of of the TTD. this can be verified. All is not hunky dory in AP. There have been many scandals in running and managing TTD guest houses. My point is that let us not overtly condemn Shri TSS and take only facts into account.Venkat

 

[Siddhanta]

This is a challenge to substantiate your claim and we expect to see information that reflects the truth from a person none other than our great revolutionary's grandson. Wouldn't you agree?

KRS Ji,

I do respect your feelings toward Christians, but as Hindus most people have seen the Christian's interests in "forcing" their faiths on us and trying to convert us into Christians. THIS IS AN UNDENIABLE FACT. They try to keep doing it as if it is vitally important to their survival.

I will just want to pass a bill in our constitution. That missionaries who "convert" Hindus from now on should send those converted Hindus to those rich and prosperous countries in the west that are funding them. Indeed it is an act of honor. There is too much population here in India and converting people in our country is turning "brother against brother" this led to scandals and people who are Indians are fighting among themselves on Religion.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Venkat Ji,

Sri Adikesavulu who was appointed recently as TTD Chairman by YSR is indeed a liquor baron. So what? Are people involved in lawful liquor business somehow lesser than others to worship the Lord?

By the way, the same man was appointed for TTD Chairman by Chandra Babu Naidu administration for two years during their rule. Was it okay then, not okay now?

These appointments have been and will continue to be political.

By the way, no one is 'overtly condemning' Sri TSS Ji. We want folks in this Forum to post the truth, not indulge in posting items that unnecessarily raise passions. Why would you term such a call for maintaing the standard as 'overtly condemning'?

If there are substantiated news about misdeeds from others towards our religion, then, by all means, post them. Just posting some unsubstantiated rumours as truth won't do.

Regards,
KRS

DearSuper moderator,
I do not know whether the AP government gave a contract to Mr. Mathew for making laddus. I also read the post by Shri Venkataramniji where in it has been state that one Ramesh is preparing the laddus presently. So far so good. I understand from some source that the Andra Predesh government did make a liquor baron as Chairman of of the TTD. this can be verified. All is not hunky dory in AP. There have been many scandals in running and managing TTD guest houses. My point is that let us not overtly condemn Shri TSS and take only facts into account.Venkat

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri siddhanta Ji,

With all due respect, your posting here is irrelevant to what I am talking about. As a Hindu I have regards for all other valid religions. But that has nothing to do with my questioning Sri TSS Ji's post here.

About conversions, I appreciate your view. Please go in to past threads where this was discussed extensively in this very Forum. Thank you.

Regards,
KRS

KRS Ji,

I do respect your feelings toward Christians, but as Hindus most people have seen the Christian's interests in "forcing" their faiths on us and trying to convert us into Christians. THIS IS AN UNDENIABLE FACT. They try to keep doing it as if it is vitally important to their survival.

I will just want to pass a bill in our constitution. That missionaries who "convert" Hindus from now on should send those converted Hindus to those rich and prosperous countries in the west that are funding them. Indeed it is an act of honor. There is too much population here in India and converting people in our country is turning "brother against brother" this led to scandals and people who are Indians are fighting among themselves on Religion.

 

[T.S.Sankara Narayanan]

I thank every one of you for you have accepted the entry of Mathew company in Thirupathy.If he is making Laddu or Bomb that is not a matter.But he is encouraged to enter Thirupathy by YSR that is the point.Also very important that he is purposely inserted by YSR.
A small Flash back in my fathers Railway Service : My father was working as Station Master in Pamban during 1960s.At that time a gentleman by name Mr Paul a christian was the Station Master in Rameswaram.On those days all VVIPs visiting Rameswaram on Pilgrimage will be very close to SMs.Once a lady M.P from West Bengal,(I have forgotten her name) visited Rameswaram on her Pilgrimage.On those days no bus,no car,no auto in Rameswaram.So everyone has to depend on Jutkas to reach the temple who ever may be.
She enquired Mr Paul the way to Temple as she preffered to go by a walk.Instead of showing her the way to Temple Mr Paul showed her the way to Sea Shore out of cruel nature.Accordingly the lady reached the Sea Shore and wandered at last finally assisted by a fishermen to reach the temple.As soon as she returned to Delhi she made a complaint to Lal Bahadur,the Rly Minister that the Railway has Pained the rituals of Hindus by placing a Christisn in Rameswaram.Finally my father was replaced in Rameswaram instead of Mr Paul.

Sandilyans Story : While Mahindra varma pallava constructed Mahabalaipuram during 7 th or 8 th century he constructed a temple with no idols of any god in one temples Garba Graha.All scholers went and argued that it is not a good symptum for the country.The king replied.," I came to know that a God by name Jesus Christ has existed in Foreign Countries.No body knows his appearance.So I send many spys and envoys to inspect the appearance of that God.After the arrival of the spys and envoys we can make an idol of that God and place it on the Garba Graha."

Tolerance to other Religion is the gean running in the blood of every Hindu.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri TSS Ji,

So in your book no one other than a Hindu should have anything to do with Tirupathy? So, let us see. If people who offer gold etc. to offer to the Lord should not buy them from any jewellers other than Hindus? If this 'Mathew company' offers the best commodity trading system in the country, that should not be used, but rather a Hindu owned company should be used, irrespective of it's quality?

You again did not answer my challenge about 'laddu making'. You have alleged that this 'Mathew Company' id doing the laddu making. Which is patently false. And now you change your story to 'YSR' inserting this company. Sir you have lost credibility. Are you not ashamed at propagating lies as truth? You could have said what you say here - about YSR 'inserting' a Christian company - but instead to make maximum emotional effect, you lied. Is this not so?

Now because of this, people like me are not going to listen to your otherwise what may be pertinent stories.

By the way, what does your story about the SM illustrate? That all Christians show the beach to visitors instead of the temple? What is the point?

Regards,
KRS

 

[anandb]

Honestly, I am not a subscriber of the noble theory "thou not speak ill of the dead" when the dead had caused considerable ill while they were alive. Things about YSR and what he did are pretty much known to everyone. This one article below summarizes everything. But I don't know how much of this will meet Shri. KRS approval as I am supposedly sympathetic towards the left and what they say. Any way people can arrive at their own judgment after reading this.

Vijayvaani.com

I am ashamed to read about TTD indulging in commodity trading. Whether run by a Hindu or Christian does not matter to me. I had once read a book by Navaratna Rajaram about how the Vatican peddles into everything other than spirituality and was proud that our Hindu institutions were not made that way. Don't have much to say now.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri anadb Ji,

As I have said, posting credible information about someone's record against Hinduism is welcome. I have no position on YSR - I have not read anything substantial about him before his death. I will read this with an open mind - usually bloggers tend to slant their stories to correspond to their point of view.

Let us not confuse this with posting vulgar sentiments about his personna. That is what Sri TSS did. Let us also not confuse this with what Sri TSS posted as 'truth'. So, please do not confuse the issue.

My terming you having 'leftist' ideas came from your arguments about USA and Israel. Nothing to do with the topic discussed here.

Regards,
KRS

Honestly, I am not a subscriber of the noble theory "thou not speak ill of the dead" when the dead had caused considerable ill while they were alive. Things about YSR and what he did are pretty much known to everyone. This one article below summarizes everything. But I don't know how much of this will meet Shri. KRS approval as I am supposedly sympathetic towards the left and what they say. Any way people can arrive at their own judgment after reading this.

Vijayvaani.com

I am ashamed to read about TTD indulging in commodity trading. Whether run by a Hindu or Christian does not matter to me. I had once read a book by Navaratna Rajaram about how the Vatican peddles into everything other than spirituality and was proud that our Hindu institutions were not made that way. Don't have much to say now.

 

[sreekanthgc]

I feel there are two different topics discussed in one thread.

Discrimination against Brahmins: It has happened and will continue to happen, it’s a real life, and all of us had faced this in certain time frame. To conquer this we can only argue, because some people will argue for sake of arguing and it may not be a healthy discussion.
Why we alone should be blamed? Because we are the architects of Hinduism

Discrimination against Women: Unfortunately still happening, even from women side also. (Mamiyar)

 

[happyhindu]

Why we alone should be blamed? Because we are the architects of Hinduism

Shri Srikanth,

Hinduism is far too broad-based to be called as something that was "architected" by brahmins or present-day brahmins alone...

Perhaps it is misinformation of this sort that has unfortunately encouraged antibrahmanism...

 

[anandb]

Dear KRSji,

Dear Sri anadb Ji,

As I have said, posting credible information about someone's record against Hinduism is welcome. I have no position on YSR - I have not read anything substantial about him before his death. I will read this with an open mind - usually bloggers tend to slant their stories to correspond to their point of view.

Let us not confuse this with posting vulgar sentiments about his personna. That is what Sri TSS did. Let us also not confuse this with what Sri TSS posted as 'truth'. So, please do not confuse the issue.

My terming you having 'leftist' ideas came from your arguments about USA and Israel. Nothing to do with the topic discussed here.

Regards,
KRS

No problems, Sir and no offence meant. I find Vijayvani interesting because it posts from a variety of sources across both national and international issues. And the analysis is generally in depth. The editors of Vijayvani Sandhya Jain, Radha Rajan and Haran, no doubt, speak a lot for Hinduism but they have also been critical of BJP and the RSS for being a let down for the Hindus. The archives have a lot of stories about this. I do read mainstream but I don't find in depth analysis in there. I also suspect that a lot of the articles represent the orientation of the editor or the organisation behind it. Definitely, the bloggers do bring their own biases but a lot of times you find opposing view points within the same forum. So I can read both and come to my own conclusion. Apologies for diverting from the crux of this thread.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri anandb Ji,

I do come across Sow. Sandhya Jain's opinions now and then and I do like her stand. A few years ago, I had met Srimathi Radha Rajan in Adyar and had lunch and I was totally impressed by her. She is an Iyengar but she clearly told me that what the Lady CM did to the Kanchi Swamy's then was a great sin. She was the one who opened my eyes towards the nexus between the leftists and the jihadists in the academic circles in the USA. By the way, this lady is very unique. She is taking care of all the stray street dogs in the Adyar/Besant Nagar neighbourhood in Chennai.

Thank you for your response.

Regards,
KRS

 

[anandb]

Dear KRSji,

Dear Sri anandb Ji,

I do come across Sow. Sandhya Jain's opinions now and then and I do like her stand. A few years ago, I had met Srimathi Radha Rajan in Adyar and had lunch and I was totally impressed by her. She is an Iyengar but she clearly told me that what the Lady CM did to the Kanchi Swamy's then was a great sin. She was the one who opened my eyes towards the nexus between the leftists and the jihadists in the academic circles in the USA. By the way, this lady is very unique. She is taking care of all the stray street dogs in the Adyar/Besant Nagar neighbourhood in Chennai.

Thank you for your response.

Regards,
KRS

Thanks very much for this extra bit of news on Smt. Radha Rajan. I love her writing. Very incisive and no beating around the bush. Hope to meet her some day.

 

[kunjuppu]

...........The editors of Vijayvani Sandhya Jain, Radha Rajan and Haran, no doubt, speak a lot for Hinduism but they have also been critical of BJP and the RSS for being a let down for the Hindus. The archives have a lot of stories about this...........

anand,

i thought that bjp and rss were right wing enough.

here we have these ladies finding them not sufficiently radical.

i am aware of your religious feelings anandb. to me the best of hindus are rajaji, gandhi, kamaraj, c.subramanian, sanjeeva reddy etc.

these were fervent hindus but did not carry their religion on their shoulders like a weight, to be swung about as weapons against fellow indians.

again, i agree, that not all, in all groups are saints.

but don't you think, that we should support like minded decent folks in other groups, than ganging up with riff raff groups, because the others have them too.

certainly sir, you can do better, i think.

 

[RVR]

Hinduism doesn't require any protection from any body. The liberal attitude itself is the biggest protection for Hinduism. If we start dictating terms like mullahs and churches, we will have more problem.

Muslim girls once get educated wants to marry Hindu boys and convert to Hinduism. Muslim girl's parents are highly worried to send their daughter for higher education fearing that they will get out of their religion. I have seen lot of cases happening regularly.

In the Nadar community, most of the younger generation Nadars wants to get out of christianity. Already marriages are happening between Hindu & Christian nadars. But christian nadar girls prefer hindu nadar so that they can get out of the clutches of the church and parents are also encouraging the same. Since 70% of the christians in India are daliths, they don't want to get identified with christianity. These are all practical instances happening at ground level without being noticed.

The freedom offered by Hinduism has no parallel

All the best

 

[anandb]

Shri Kunjippu,

I think you should go through the archives. These ladies are not suggesting anything radical. They have only been critical of the BJP and RSS whenever they have been wishy- washy about their support of Hindus. And supporting Hindus does not mean killing other religions. Repeatedly, their articles only talk about strengthening the fortress of Hindus and not attacking other religions.

And here I am not ganging up with or against anyone. All I am doing is reading different view points. I don't think the threat against Hinduism is something imaginary or illusionary. A lot of forces are at work and sometimes Hindus themselves are responsible for this state. Whether we do something about it or not just to be aware of them would do us a lot of good.

I am pretty confident that my love for Hinduism would not make me take a radical view about people belonging to other religions because in the end I am for peace.

 

[Siddhanta]

With all due respect, your posting here is irrelevant to what I am talking about. As a Hindu I have regards for all other valid religions. But that has nothing to do with my questioning Sri TSS Ji's post here.

KRS Ji,

You have concern for valid Religions. I would like to clarify a doubt regarding one Religion, the Christian Religion. This Religion claims that whomsoever gets converted into their Religion will have their sins forgiven, and going to heaven after death, while those who do not get converted will burn in the lake of fire (Hell) forever. How could you explain this logic and validity?

When this question is asked to Christians(this is clearly mentioned in their philosophy), they will say just beleive and they continue with their preaching. Their preaching is illogical and a lot of issues are there in Religions which needs to be bashed.

But in Hinduism, everything has a divine logic and nothing is illogical. But still there are forces which aims at brainwashing and telling this logic is wrong.

The philosophy i mentioned is clearly depicted here.

Somebody Loves You? - Anti-Tract!

 

[Iyer@Infosys]

KRS Ji,

You have concern for valid Religions. I would like to clarify a doubt regarding one Religion, the Christian Religion. This Religion claims that whomsoever gets converted into their Religion will have their sins forgiven, and going to heaven after death, while those who do not get converted will burn in the lake of fire (Hell) forever. How could you explain this logic and validity?

When this question is asked to Christians(this is clearly mentioned in their philosophy), they will say just beleive and they continue with their preaching. Their preaching is illogical and a lot of issues are there in Religions which needs to be bashed.

But in Hinduism, everything has a divine logic and nothing is illogical. But still there are forces which aims at brainwashing and telling this logic is wrong.

The philosophy i mentioned is clearly depicted here.

Somebody Loves You? - Anti-Tract!

Beloved Brother Siddhanta

Greetings.

I have read the Bible and I have discussed this matter with some Pastors, Evangelists and Missionaries. I wish to clarify as below.

Firstly the Lord Jesus Christ never preached any religion. He never founded any so-called religous institution. He never founded any of the plethora of christian denominations existing in the world. He never founded the religion which is popularly known as christianity in the English language,. You will not find anything that can be termed as religion in the teachings of Jesus which is found in the Bible.

Contrary to popular belief in India, Jesus was not born in the West, nor in any of the European country nor in Vatican. Many Indians are ignorant of the fact that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, in Israel, in the Jewish community. Jesus never left Israel.

The teachings and message of Jesus, popularly referred to as the Gospel, was brough to India by none other than Apostle Thomas, a direct disciple of Jesus, as early as 2000 years ago, centuries before it was preached in any of the European countries or the west.

The core message of the Gospel is "Salvation is by Grace and not by works of righteousness". John 3:3-5 quotes "Unless you are born again in water and Spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

Shall be continued....

 

[RVR]

Sri Iyer@Infosys

I really appreciate your knowledge about christianity and Bible. Catholics learn our Vedas as part of their regular curriculam. I have seen Father Ignachimuthu quoting from Rig Vedha regularly in his writings.

Keep it up

All the best

 

[Iyer@Infosys]

Clarification on Jesus

Beloved Brother Venkataramani,

Thank you for your appreciation. In all humility, I do not know much about christianity. Whatever little I know I have shared. My intention was only to clear misgivings about the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ whom I hold in the greatest esteem. My concern is every one must know and understand the pure, original, pristine message of the Gospel. My concern is whoever is not a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ may please not jump to any wrong conclusion or prejudice about Jesus. Please do not misunderstand the message of Jesus who has been projected by the so-called christians wrongly. The best way to understand Jesus is to read the Bible ourselves and know Him, rather than hearkening to the sermons of the so-called christian preachers, the white-skins from the west.

We Indians have an inherent shortcoming. We always believe the white-skins as authentic. But the westerners are not always so. They may be advanced in Science and Technology, but when it comes to Spiritual matters, they are sadly far behind the Indians. This applies also to understanding the Bible. The Bible was originally written in Hebrew and Greek, the Old Testament in Hebrew and the New Testament in Greek. Parts of the New Testament is also written in Aramaic, the language spoken in Israel during the times of Jesus. Bible in any other language is a translation. It is interesting to note that the Bible was translated in Tamil, long before it was translated in any of the European languages. There are numerous versions in the English translations viz Authorized King James, New King James, NIV, Amplified etc. Every translation in English was made by different teams of people at different points of time in history with an attempt to be accurate. But none of the English translations, for that matter of any of the European language translations, match the accuracy of the Tamil translation. Therefore the message of Gospel can be better understood by reading the Tamil Bible than English Bible.

There is plenty of confusion regarding conversion. We have been so conditioned and programmed in our minds to perceive any concept of God as Religion, and acceptance of any alien belief-system as conversion, that we are not able to understand the genuine mission of the some missionaries. Conversions to christianity indeed happened during the imperial times, beginning from the portugues to the British. What the Europeans brought was religion indeed but not the pristine Gospel. Gandhiji once quoted, "I accept the message of the Lord Jesus Christ, but I do not accept the attitude of the Christians". Gandhiji was right indeed. You cannot understand the Lord Jesus by studying the life the so-called christians. They do not manifest or represent Christ in their lives.

In India, most Indians, especially Hindus are aware only of the faith system of the Roman Catholics, who are headquarted in Vatican with Pope as their supreme head. I wish all Indians turn the pages of History and learn the events during the Reformation movement started by Martin Luther of Germany in the 16th Century. This event is a landmark event not only in the history of the Church, but it rocked the entire Europe, shaking the foundations of the RC institution. It would do us a lot better to know the cause, events and consequences of this movement. It is very important to know the sale of "Letters of Indulgences" by the then Pope Leo, which unmasked the hypocrisy of the RCs. In spite of the Reformation movement, most European countries remain Catholic, which is much to speak about their spiritual backwardness. Many Indian Catholics themselves are ignorant of this shameful deed, which if they know they will not remain catholics. Many leaders in the catholic community who know this episode, diplomatically and conveniently hide this, lest they are exposed, lest the eyes of their members be opened and they leave the institution. Whoever studed SSLC in CBSE during the 70s and early 80s will be aware of the Reformation movement, since it was an essential part of the History curriculum. Martin Luther who despised the Pope's activities, who doubted his soveriegnity, who was truly convicted in his conscience, secretly read the original Bible, uncovered the truth that the RC in Vatican is not founded on Biblical principles and exposed it to the world. He suffered persecution as a result. Unfortunately the so-called protestant institutions which evolved later, which were initially founded on Biblical principles also deviated from the truth and degenerated into mundane institutions.

As for the hyper link provided by Brother Siddhanta, this happens to be one of the sites of the so-called Satanic Church members, who are antagonistic to the message of the Gospel.

I have so many things to write, but this thread may not be the proper forum.

My exhortation to the Brahmin community in particular is, better read the original messages from the original scriptures and then form reasonable opinions and conclusions. Please do not jump to hasty conclusions. Please do not misunderstand the message of the prophets by studying the life of the self-styled champions of any faith.

Thanks
Iyer@Infosys.

 

[RVR]

Monks of Ramakrishna Mutt read scripts of other religion and probably master it also. Their philosophy is `Like a bee which collects honey from different flowers, let us collect the best things out of all faiths'.

In fact Rig vedaa says the same thing which appears at the bottom.

All the best

 

[kunjuppu]

iyer,

i think, you are cross referencing a lot of issues in your post. to me this is not coherent.

let me try to parse it in a way i understand.

the foremost message from your post is the message of jesus christ and the gospels. so be it.

i would recommend that you read the aims and protocols of this forum. in that context, i think, it would behoove well of yourself, to familiarize yourself with the best of the tenets of hinduism, whatever aspect that interests you.

otherwise, to me, your post reads like a recorded message of some unenlightened propaganda, which i am sure, you are not. i think, you need to do further analysis of comparative religions, as ultimately you might find they have all more in common.

the other part, is my forte. medieval european history, reformation, luther, henry VIII, counter reformation, inquisition and the whole bit.

this is wide and interesting area, which is a great lark and fun to read. you might have noticed there is a current bbc serial on the tudors of england, who brought in and instituted the permanence of the church of england.

i think, you should not confuse your biblical bibliophilism with what happened in europe 13th through 17th century. this is intenrnal church politics, and one which i am sure, if discussed in this forum, must be under history.

i would doubt if there are many who are interested in such european medieval stuff. fyi, there are myriads of forums spread internationally. do a google search, and you will find companionship there.

finally, as an ordinary member here, i request you to re read the forum goals and aims, and ensure that your posts are within the decorums and values which this forum holds - ie the benefit and welfare of tamil brahmins.

you need not be a tamil brahmin to be here. you need to be a wellwisher of our community, and there should be a broad consensus here that you appear to be thus, in the broadest sense.

no place for purveying of parochial, narrow minded, one track values here though. that would be impolite, and insult to your intelligence. and incidentally, also ours.

thank you.

 

[Nara]

This Iyer@Infosys seems too slick by half. Come out and be honest Mr. Iyer.

Couple of citations to just put things in perspective.

Jesus of Nazareth:

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)
​

Martin Luther on Jews:

Our Lord also calls them a "brood of vipers"; furthermore in John 8 [:39,44] he states: "If you were Abraham's children ye would do what Abraham did.... You are of your father the devil. It was intolerable to them to hear that they were not Abraham's but the devil's children, nor can they bear to hear this today.

For more visit: Martin Luther's dirty little book ​