IIT Madras resorts to life skills training to cut campus suicides

[tks]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

Dear Mr. Sangom,

If being selfish is equivalent to being ambitious what you say would be true. In that case being "selfish" is not a crime. It is not as if these brilliant minds are suddenly exposed to IIT while all along, in their schools, they were all carefully preserved in a cocoon. It is in their schools and homes that these brilliant minds pick up their values. If being ambitious and focussed is one such value it is not a greenhouse effect. It is by a conscious choice.

Those who are flabbergasted-as you say-and those who fail to cope up with peer pressures, bullying, study load etc have nothing special in IIT. Even if they had not joined IIT and had joined someother institute would have had the same level of stress. Suicide is a genetic orientation in a large number of cases.

To conclude, my case is that IIT students are as much ordinary students as other students if you keep aside their academic brilliance. Clash of value systems are there every where in every academic institution. People cope with the pressures as best as they can.

My own experience working with many students educated at IITs or other such organizations worldwide seem to be more in line with what you have stated in this posts and other posts. I come into contact with IIT graduates routinely because we have always hired people coming to work place from such schools. My experience is also based on contacts with alumni members of many generations as well as interacting very closely with friends of my children (including those that have completed their undergraduate program at IIT).

 

[sravna]

Entering into IIT requires strong analytical skills. Do such skills also help you in survival in the practical world ? I would say it is a qualified yes. Practical world is a lot more chaotic and the rules of the game are not like the theorems of the academic world. To meet the real pragmatic challenges that the world has to offer you need to possess more than analytical skills. This fact becomes more and more pronounced as your status becomes higher and higher in the society.

 

[prasad1]

Intelligence and life skills are two different things. A person has be strong emotionally to survive riggers of the everyday life.
Asians and in particular Indians put a lot of pressure on the children to succeed in life. Sometimes the children are not able to cope with it. To us failure is not an option. Even in US the suicide rate among Asian kids is higher than the average.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Shri Kunjuppu,

What I am basically saying is that if you are not selfish you are a misfit in today's world. So to go along with the world it would seem you need to be selfish too. Those who are by nature selfish naturally get along. But those who are not would not seem to. So they have to be resourceful.

Let us say that you are the good one and I am selfish. Our reaction, say, when someone close to us does something bad to us, would elicit different responses. While I will not show my emotions but waiting for a chance to get even because I am by nature selfish and am concerned only about my well being. This behaviour the world does not consider abnormal and more or less the way that it expects of people.

On the other hand, you would be affected deeply but would not want to hurt the person. This behaviour is considered soft and you are considered a soft target. This is when people such people with high intelligence feel the need to compromise.

But what you could instead do is, handle the situation without any compromise. You could mustering all your intelligence train yourself to be not impacted by emotions. Though on surface both of us would be acting the same way we are diametrically different. This is because suppressing emotions implies I am holding them for a long time whereas you instantly are relieved of them.

You can react the way suggested above because you basically have the ability to adapt.

Thank You Sravna.

 

[sravna]

Thank You Sravna.

It is my honor to share thoughts with you and with the forum in general.

 

[C RAVI]

Entering into IIT requires strong analytical skills. Do such skills also help you in survival in the practical world ? I would say it is a qualified yes. Practical world is a lot more chaotic and the rules of the game are not like the theorems of the academic world. To meet the real pragmatic challenges that the world has to offer you need to possess more than analytical skills. This fact becomes more and more pronounced as your status becomes higher and higher in the society.

I totally accept your statements, Shri Sravna.

The practical world is indeed lot more complicated and challenging, almost every day-in and day-out, where Academic Intelligence, Logical Intelligence, Rational Intelligence etc..etc..can just be a tool to manage oneself better. Lot more is required personality wise to lead a contented and peaceful life and sharing-motivating-supporting such personality traits among humans matters a lot for a smooth and harmonious living together.

 

[sangom]

I totally accept your statements, Shri Sravna.

The practical world is indeed lot more complicated and challenging, almost every day-in and day-out, where Academic Intelligence, Logical Intelligence, Rational Intelligence etc..etc..can just be a tool to manage oneself better. Lot more is required personality wise to lead a contented and peaceful life and sharing-motivating-supporting such personality traits among humans matters a lot for a smooth and harmonious living together.

Dear Shri Ravi,

It is not a question of contented and peaceful life. The atmosphere in some IITs (I can vouchsafe for BHU and Kaharagpur.) is such that some of our members here who write merely on the basis of their interactions with IIT products and/or IIT faculty members, are unaware of the actual atmosphere there.

For example, and I did not want to bring this out in public here - but am compelled to do so, a cigarette, cola etc., shop just outside the BHU campus was being run by the drug mafia and fortunately one local person advised me about it. He said if you buy single cigarette from there, you will soon fall a prey to drugs. So, I advised my son who successfully completed B.Tech from there, not to buy loose cigarettes from that shop, and in case he was tempted, he may buy full packets after checking the seal etc.

Criminals running away from the police used to barge into the students' hostels throughout BHU and even instigate the students under threat of death, to go on strikes and create mayhem so that they (the criminals) could escape easily from that rambling campus of more than 5000 acres.

Powaii IIT also had its own dangerous pitfalls and I know this from my third son who got his B.Tech from it. A group of students were there trying to lure unsuspecting youngsters through wine, women and drugs, into criminal and underworld gangs.

I was told by a relative boy of mine that IIT kharagpur was thuggy, so to say, and that there were politically and financially mighty student groups who could even get away with murder.

That is why I hold that the students are like from some greenhouse; the colleges for XI and XII standards are far different from these.

Neither the faculty nor the students who come out successfully (including my three sons now) will tell anyone about all these negative and very disquieting atmosphere in IITs. Of course, I am out of touch with the conditions in IITs today, but such conditions did exist at least in one era.

 

[auh]

IITs, IIMs and such niche educational institutes/courses etc are the stepping stones to job assurance. These students have a better chance of grasping complex problems due to their high analytical skills, and hence would be preferred over a non-IIT/IIM. This should not be confused to mean that others cannot compete with an elite force, but just that they have an edge.

I had a colleague who recently did a certificate course in IIM-A. He said that the experience was totally exhilirating, and exhausting. Case studies were discussed with a focus on real life issues. And this will tell on a student who comes out as a finished product.

Emotional maturity would come to the fore in their understanding - of people, their opinions, group behaviour, risk taking ability etc. These are areas which are unique to, the corporate ambience, the individual (value systems), and inter-personal relationship, to name a few and there is no one fit all solution to a problem in such issues.

As far as college campuses go, presence of mafia, local goondas, politics etc have spread like the common cold, and, in fact, more and more educational institutes are built and maintained by such groups only. Such is life.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Shri Ravi,

It is not a question of contented and peaceful life. The atmosphere in some IITs (I can vouchsafe for BHU and Kaharagpur.) is such that some of our members here who write merely on the basis of their interactions with IIT products and/or IIT faculty members, are unaware of the actual atmosphere there.

For example, and I did not want to bring this out in public here - but am compelled to do so, a cigarette, cola etc., shop just outside the BHU campus was being run by the drug mafia and fortunately one local person advised me about it. He said if you buy single cigarette from there, you will soon fall a prey to drugs. So, I advised my son who successfully completed B.Tech from there, not to buy loose cigarettes from that shop, and in case he was tempted, he may buy full packets after checking the seal etc.

Criminals running away from the police used to barge into the students' hostels throughout BHU and even instigate the students under threat of death, to go on strikes and create mayhem so that they (the criminals) could escape easily from that rambling campus of more than 5000 acres.

Powaii IIT also had its own dangerous pitfalls and I know this from my third son who got his B.Tech from it. A group of students were there trying to lure unsuspecting youngsters through wine, women and drugs, into criminal and underworld gangs.

I was told by a relative boy of mine that IIT kharagpur was thuggy, so to say, and that there were politically and financially mighty student groups who could even get away with murder.

That is why I hold that the students are like from some greenhouse; the colleges for XI and XII standards are far different from these.

Neither the faculty nor the students who come out successfully (including my three sons now) will tell anyone about all these negative and very disquieting atmosphere in IITs. Of course, I am out of touch with the conditions in IITs today, but such conditions did exist at least in one era.

Shri Sangom,


Such things happens in many Universities/Colleges and IIT campus probably is not an exception to that even today. There are many young guys who succumb to such atmosphere in which their Academic Brilliance does nothing good to them.

Mostly the students who gradually could sense the mounting pressure and the inability to cope with studies slowly move towards unwanted practices and when, at a certain point of time, they find themselves left behind, into depression due to indulgence in bad habits/involvement with wrong people etc..etc.., end up committing suicide, unable to face the situation and people around them.

Just because IIT is a campus of "Generally" Exceptionally brilliant and competent students, where students from middle and upper class society enroll, all the negativity that you have listed in your post no.32 does not get ruled out.


As you said, IIT being a prestigious institution, the IIT students/passed outs and their family members prefer not to publicly expose the darker sides of the institution.

 

[vgane]

There is always a need for balance between office & family; between the wheeling dealing in Corporate life Vs contented life of the family...Otherwise the pangs created by one will engulf the other

I know for example many women who when taking up Corporate jobs are saddled with additional responsibility of taking care of the kids & kitchen which results in high stress..

There is no substitute for practical experience in managing the complexities of life..You have to get your hands soiled & have to face the harsh realities.. .Everything cannot be taught...

But telling the students that life is not a bed of roses and there are challenges /hurdles all the way which need to be managed is a good beginning IMO..Not just that but also give tips how to manage the differences in opinion which cause strife & tension will go a long way in soothing the emotions of the disturbed....At the same time bringing out hope to these budding stars will help mitigate their feeling of hopelessness..This will alleviate their internal suffering which can be on account of failure/helplessness

We need to empathize with those guys..Identifying them is a big challenge as they seldom open up & share their concerns..They are depressed & hardly vocalize their problems...You have to be pro active in offering the right help and assistance to them

 

[C RAVI]

There is always a need for balance between office & family; between the wheeling dealing in Corporate life Vs contented life of the family...Otherwise the pangs created by one will engulf the other

I know for example many women who when taking up Corporate jobs are saddled with additional responsibility of taking care of the kids & kitchen which results in high stress..

There is no substitute for practical experience in managing the complexities of life..You have to get your hands soiled & have to face the harsh realities.. .Everything cannot be taught...

But telling the students that life is not a bed of roses and there are challenges /hurdles all the way which need to be managed is a good beginning IMO..Not just that but also give tips how to manage the differences in opinion which cause strife & tension will go a long way in soothing the emotions of the disturbed....At the same time bringing out hope to these budding stars will help mitigate their feeling of hopelessness..This will alleviate their internal suffering which can be on account of failure/helplessness

We need to empathize with those guys..Identifying them is a big challenge as they seldom open up & share their concerns..They are depressed & hardly vocalize their problems...You have to be pro active in offering the right help and assistance to them

Absolutely!!!


That's why such personality development work shops are conducted periodically. This off course would help a lot as long as these students give serious attention to these work shops and grasp the significance that it carries to build one's personality.

Other than these, a great great level of family atmosphere / parental skills, proper attention etc with all responsibilities plays a major role in keeping these youths/students in a better shape, always.

 

[SANDHYAV]

The course, comprising activities, projects and workshops, would be taught by experts from different fields during the first semester and assigned two credits (30 hours). It would cover three aspects of living: self-dependence, inter-dependence and independence. With a rise in the number of women students, focus would also be given to gender sensitisation, he added.

self efficiency skills are made mandatory. which is good. there will an odd student everywhere who will have problems. if u can avoid such incidents it is very good. from my own experience i think the IITians are best in the field. i have also known few anna univ students who are good.

to dump IITians in comparison to some marble beau fountain beau dubakoor private eng college is a disgrace. most of the latter ones loathe in their parents money and lack no motivation.

 

[kunjuppu]

to dump IITians in comparison to some marble beau fountain beau dubakoor private eng college is a disgrace. most of the latter ones loathe in their parents money and lack no motivation.

..some marble beau fountain beau dubakoor private eng college is a disgrace. most of the latter ones loathe in their parents money and lack no motivation..

pray help me someone. i am trying to understand this rather deep statement..ie the italics only.. this is my take, as i logically try to parse the disjointed phrases into one meaningful (atleast to me) statement. pray bear with me, i beseech.

beau - beautiful
dubakoor - fake, cheat, sly character (from the web)
latter ones - i guess it mean engg college students attending those with beautiful fountains but fake engineering colleges
loathe in their parents money - if you take away the preposition (thank you mr wren & mr martin ) 'in', it makes sense ie these students actively disdain their parents' wealth
lack no motivation - ie thoroughly motivated

to put it all together,

compared to the iitians, the private engineering college students, those colleges with beautiful fountains but of fake quality, have only contempt for their parent's wealth (which i think is a good thing) and are thoroughly motivated.. which is again good. the only thing that is of moral essence here, is the private eng students are seekers of values, as they seem to loathe wealth (particularly inherited wealth), and appear motivated..

meaning all these are not applicable to iit students, who must be seekers after mammon (if the corollary that they come from poor families can be extended and thanks to the great campuses and facilities, which appear to suck away their motivation. and after graduation, all appear to stand in queue before the u.s. embassy for their T1 (?) or H1 visas! which, as an ex iit-ian, i tend to agree.

definitely a very acute and also an obtuse observation. not sure how many iit admirers here would agree with it. though?

the reason i am scratching my (bald) head to draw blood, is this perfectly sane statement, appears contradictory to a rather passioned paen to the imagined ideals of iit-ians as visioned by nehru. i am missing something i feel, but what? only perhaps, the shadow knows!!!

 

[sangom]

..some marble beau fountain beau dubakoor private eng college is a disgrace. most of the latter ones loathe in their parents money and lack no motivation..

pray help me someone. i am trying to understand this rather deep statement..ie the italics only.. this is my take, as i logically try to parse the disjointed phrases into one meaningful (atleast to me) statement. pray bear with me, i beseech.

beau - beautiful
dubakoor - fake, cheat, sly character (from the web)
latter ones - i guess it mean engg college students attending those with beautiful fountains but fake engineering colleges
loathe in their parents money - if you take away the preposition (thank you mr wren & mr martin ) 'in', it makes sense ie these students actively disdain their parents' wealth
lack no motivation - ie thoroughly motivated

to put it all together,

compared to the iitians, the private engineering college students, those colleges with beautiful fountains but of fake quality, have only contempt for their parent's wealth (which i think is a good thing) and are thoroughly motivated.. which is again good. the only thing that is of moral essence here, is the private eng students are seekers of values, as they seem to loathe wealth (particularly inherited wealth), and appear motivated..

meaning all these are not applicable to iit students, who must be seekers after mammon (if the corollary that they come from poor families can be extended and thanks to the great campuses and facilities, which appear to suck away their motivation. and after graduation, all appear to stand in queue before the u.s. embassy for their T1 (?) or H1 visas! which, as an ex iit-ian, i tend to agree.

definitely a very acute and also an obtuse observation. not sure how many iit admirers here would agree with it. though?

the reason i am scratching my (bald) head to draw blood, is this perfectly sane statement, appears contradictory to a rather passioned paen to the imagined ideals of iit-ians as visioned by nehru. i am missing something i feel, but what? only perhaps, the shadow knows!!!

Dear Kunjuppu,

Your analysis seems correct to me. One thing which you may not agree (since you are yourself an IItian) is that, by and large, the IIT products are like marble statues, very impressive but not equal to a living sample. One well-known Maharashtrian industrialist, Kirloskar, once said that he would never appoint any IIT or IIM product because they will be simply a drain on the company's resources but will have nothing to contribute except some high faluting jargon.

I feel Kirloskar was right to a large extent. When it comes to hands on work and getting clothes soiled, these high status people shirk and I have seen this when I worked in Firestone; one simple matriculate mechanic who got promoted to the No.2 position engineer was the final authority on all engineering matters and problems whereas a foreign trained Chief Engineer (incidentally a tabra who had become as much of an American as possible and had also married a foreign woman) was only an ornament, appointed to please some political powers that be. Even the ordinary plant workers used to respect that mechanic engineer while for the No.1 man their response was "gāṇ māro sāle ko, kuch nahiṃ jāntā voh".

 

[vgane]

Refer post # 39

IIT or non IIT what is required is a hands on approach...Give up fancy jargon ..Know the fundamentals of the domain..Understand the assumptions well...Have the finger on the pulse of the business...Have your numbers right...Go after the target...you will get your results..It is not some magic wand for success in your Business or Corporate world

I know one B.Sc graduate who is responsible for a critical area in a large Bank (MNC), a tambra..He is the authority for his domain..Period..No questions asked...

I also know IIT'ians who are very politically savvy (Manohar Parikkar-CM of Goa and Jayaram Ramesh our UPA Cabinet Minister for Rural development, a Tambra

Let us move forward before it becomes a B/NB conflict..Let us focus on the main thread

 

[biswa]

Emotional maturity and wisdom are not subjects taught in IIT, IIM or any other college for that matter. They are taught by life.

 

[Vaagmi]

Sangom in IIT post #39:

When it comes to hands on work and getting clothes soiled, these high status people shirk and I have seen this when I worked in Firestone; one simple matriculate mechanic who got promoted to the No.2 position engineer was the final authority on all engineering matters and problems whereas a foreign trained Chief Engineer (incidentally a tabra who had become as much of an American as possible and had also married a foreign woman) was only an ornament, appointed to please some political powers that be. Even the ordinary plant workers used to respect that mechanic engineer while for the No.1 man their response was "gāṇ māro sāle ko, kuch nahiṃ jāntā voh".

All the business processes in a business do not need a hands on approach. Rather micro-management of tasks is discouraged at some levels. Delegation is a magic word which is stressed to achieve far better results. If the matriculate mechanic could perform so well that he could feel he was the final authority in a certain task/domain and if every one looked to him for instructions and guidance, it was also the achievement of the IITian who was at the higher level managing the affairs. He must have gone home at the end of the day chuckling and patting himself for achieving what he wanted to achieve, through the mechanic without ever having to micro-manage him or manipulate him. At higher levels the achievement is measured by a very different yard stick. At that level the tasks are different, the processes are different, the time lines are different and rewards too are different.

Vgane in #40:

IIT or non IIT what is required is a hands on approach...Give up fancy jargon ..Know the fundamentals of the domain..Understand the assumptions well...Have the finger on the pulse of the business...Have your numbers right...Go after the target...you will get your results..It is not some magic wand for success in your Business or Corporate world

Hands on-yes. But only at the “dashboard” level and not at the firing cylinder level. There is some one else who is assigned the cylinders and the spark plugs. Jargons come handy some time like when I said dashboard.

I know one B.Sc graduate who is responsible for a critical area in a large Bank (MNC), a tambra..He is the authority for his domain..Period..No questions asked...

“No questions asked” is dangerous. Do you remember the Leeson episode and the Barings Bank crashing or our own security scam(Harshad Mehta) and the huge losses and the number of Funds Managers who were dismissed. These were outcome of “no questions” or “no review” environment in which people(domain experts?) worked. Every critical business process should be subject to review and second authorization.

 

[sravna]

Basically I think control over emotions cannot be accomplished by reason. So I think it is beyond the realm of academic learning. What does really matter is a well developed ability for holistic thinking. Some people possess this type of intelligence and are known to better adapt to their environment and thus succeed even under difficult conditions. The alternative is to master the laws of the jungle just like the westerners have. If neither is possible it does not matter whether you are from IIT or not. You are bound to find the world a formidable place.

 

[sravna]

One interesting conclusion that dawned upon me based on the premises that IITians either have well developed holistic thinking ability or play the rules of the world very well ,is that as a general rule they succeed. I think this is the case in reality also. Any thoughts?

 

[tks]

Not in the top 50, 100 or 200 in the world

IITs provide one of the best education up to Masters in my view and judging by the disproportionate number of successful people it has produced worldwide the institutions have earned respect in the world. That success in the world has to do with learning to excel in a number of dimensions that are not taught in any IITs.

In that sense education in places like IIT teach one how to learn. Most schools in India that I know emphasize memorization and regurgitation and many IIT courses do emphasize problem solving like many western schools. This does enable one to think and learning to think.

The entrance exam is very difficult and the number of qualified students far exceed the number of available seats. Therefore getting into IIT is seen as a big deal.

For most part in all other qualities like physical abilities, emotional intelligence, and abilities to work with others etc., graduates of IIT and other such good schools are no different statistically than the world at large in my experience. The entrance exam and teaching program has enabled IIT graduates on average to develop better problem solving abilities as judged by their success in their profession.

India and IIT education has a long way to go in the world stage when one looks at the world rankings. These rankings tend to be political by the way the criteria are designed. Regardless let us see how IIT education is ranked in the world stage by many ranking organizations.

1. IITs not in the first 100
Academic Ranking of World Universities in Engineering/Technology and Computer Sciences - 2012| 2012 Top 100 Universities in Engineering/Technology and Computer Sciences |ARWU-FIELD 2012




2. IITs not in the first 50
QS World University Rankings by Subject 2013 - Engineering - Mechanical, Aeronautical & Manufacturing | Top Universities


3. Not even in the top 100
World's top 100 universities 2012: their reputations ranked by Times Higher Education | News | guardian.co.uk


4. Not even in the top 200
World's Best Universities; Top 400 Universities in the World | US News


As an IIT alumni and an NRI/PIO or whatever I am called I wish that our crown jewel of institutions show up better.

 

[sangom]

Sangom in IIT post #39:

All the business processes in a business do not need a hands on approach. Rather micro-management of tasks is discouraged at some levels. Delegation is a magic word which is stressed to achieve far better results. If the matriculate mechanic could perform so well that he could feel he was the final authority in a certain task/domain and if every one looked to him for instructions and guidance, it was also the achievement of the IITian who was at the higher level managing the affairs. He must have gone home at the end of the day chuckling and patting himself for achieving what he wanted to achieve, through the mechanic without ever having to micro-manage him or manipulate him. At higher levels the achievement is measured by a very different yard stick. At that level the tasks are different, the processes are different, the time lines are different and rewards too are different.

Shri Vaagmi sir,

Perhaps my post was vague. This matriculate mechanic engineer was with the company for a very long time and ascended the steps slowly, to get the No.2 position in the plant engineering division. The higher level man was not an IITian (I am talking about matters just after IITs were established.) but he was an engineer who had foreign degree. Hence, this No.1 could definitely not have enjoyed the "vaagmi chuckle" at the end of the day, I am sure.

Once a machine which mixes rubber and chemicals, stopped working at the dead of night. The No.1 man was deputed by the MD. He arrived but despite working even at the cost of soiling his "band-box"dry cleaned shirt and pants, the No.1 could not make the mixer start again. The No.2 man who was not provided with company car had to be specially summoned by sending company car, because the plant would completely shut down by afternoon and the labour had to be paid wages at some high piece-rate, because it would have been company's fault. The No.2 man got into the task along with a few workers of the Banbury mixer department and just at the end of the day he put the machine working once again.

Since I am not knowledgeable about the finer details, the talk was that the No.1 did not know anything about the intricate details of how that machine worked and he was merely trying, all the time, to rotate the mixer proper.

So, dashboard, delegation, micro-management and similar other jargons apart, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. One who can make things work again is definitely more an asset to a profit-oriented company. For the Nehruvian public sector companies, perhaps jargons might have counted more and decentralization could have gone even to the extent of today's outsourcing.

 

[vgane]

Sangom in IIT post #39:



Vgane in #40:



Hands on-yes. But only at the “dashboard” level and not at the firing cylinder level. There is some one else who is assigned the cylinders and the spark plugs. Jargons come handy some time like when I said dashboard.



“No questions asked” is dangerous. Do you remember the Leeson episode and the Barings Bank crashing or our own security scam(Harshad Mehta) and the huge losses and the number of Funds Managers who were dismissed. These were outcome of “no questions” or “no review” environment in which people(domain experts?) worked. Every critical business process should be subject to review and second authorization.

who said that dashboard or KPI are not required...It is an euphemism for Metrics...You can call it any name but we need to follow the process & obtain the results..Do we require IIT tag for that

Regarding the "no questions asked", I meant he was the authority on the subject...He knew in & out of the domain..Reviews are mandatory & he used to be very meticulous in following the rules..He is considered a wizard and task master in his area

 

[kunjuppu]

One interesting conclusion that dawned upon me based on my premises being IITians either have well developed holistic thinking ability or play the rules of the world very well ,is that as a general rule they succeed. I think this is the case in reality also. Any thoughts?

my take on the whole thing, is that in a country of 1.2 billion, there is an element of extremely gifted folks. these folks will prosper contribute innovate and cause wealth to be created, i think, irrespective of where these study to acquire some book skills and knowledge.

we used to call these folks, as having 'fundas', meaning, that they understood the principles from ground up, and need not do any mugging, of the style that i was brought up with, and much to my disadvantage at iit. i could identify, 'mediocres' when i see one, and in a class of 60, about 60% were such, including moi. but, we had some skills to bat, and these got us in, and once in, i could not get out, even though i was a misfit (only 3 people quit within weeks - 1 from andhra, 1 from madras both because they felt they were misfits, and the third, because he got a medical seat).

so all in all, my schoolmates who went to guindy, a.c. tech, rec trichy, cit, psg etc were as good or better than me. they did well in life too.

now, i hear, the iit factories of andhra pradesh, started by chandrababu naidu, is mass producing iit students. i visited my old ganga hostel, and 95% of the students were telugus - not that i am against telugus, but these were the product of the factories. one little chat and i saw, that these were not the wholesome folks, which we talk about here. these were wedded to their PCs in groups, and focused only on marks, and one way ticket to USA.

and atleast to me, all of these, had the personality of a donkey in a suit..i dont mean to insult donkeys here.

even when i was here, late 60s to early 70s, if the dept head was from one state, all the teaching assistants and ass profs were from the same. in this case it was all from andhra again, and most of them from guntur engineering college, who could not even speak grammtical english, let alone understand the concepts, which they were trying to teach.

again, i think, iits, upto dot com revolution, were only recognized in a few usa universities. after the dotcom and the resulting millionaires, their fame shot up, and along with it, the abuse of entrance exams - now i think there are 3 levels and kids spend one full year coaching. al this is ridiculous, i think. for a good student, can always shine, anywhere no matter what.

none of my nephews or nieces qualified for iits, and they all went to the marble fountained dubakoor engineering colleges that have sprung up in chennai suburbs, and all bar one are in the usa, earning handsome salaries in google, apple and intel, to name a few name brands. the one in india, is earning 6 lakhs per month in mumbai, and he is 29 years old. so there must be something more than dubakoor in these colleges, or back to my point, that good students can make it any where with mediocre book learning. though that too may be stretching it.

incidentally all my nephews and nieces, never felt ashamed of their parents' wealth either, ie these are 1st generation nouveau riche, and flaunted their pseudo western lifetstyle in india shamelessly, though when it came to marriage, all of them played it safe, and stuck to their iyer cohorts. with much relieved parental blessings

not to think that i support the dubakoor engg colleges. i think nachimuthu gounder or jeppiaar or the late kiruttinan, are best confined to their natural talents in goondaism, and should not have been allowed to venture into starting educational institutions. but the corruption of higher education through reckless privatization (though it is good for tambrams, as they all get seats without any effort now) along with almost non existent quality primary govt schools anywhere in tamil nadu, indeeds presents a bleak future for the future of education in tamil nadu - particularly the poorer underclasses of society.

this weeks' neeya naana, has an episode on the blind fascination on engineering, and also the fee gouging of the dubakoor engg colleges. if you have some time, kindly give it a view. thanks.

neeya-naana-14-07-2013-vijay-tv.html

 

[sravna]

Thanks Shri. Kunjuppu for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Vaagmi]

Shri Vaagmi sir,

Perhaps my post was vague. This matriculate mechanic engineer was with the company for a very long time and ascended the steps slowly, to get the No.2 position in the plant engineering division. The higher level man was not an IITian (I am talking about matters just after IITs were established.) but he was an engineer who had foreign degree. Hence, this No.1 could definitely not have enjoyed the "vaagmi chuckle" at the end of the day, I am sure.

Once a machine which mixes rubber and chemicals, stopped working at the dead of night. The No.1 man was deputed by the MD. He arrived but despite working even at the cost of soiling his "band-box"dry cleaned shirt and pants, the No.1 could not make the mixer start again. The No.2 man who was not provided with company car had to be specially summoned by sending company car, because the plant would completely shut down by afternoon and the labour had to be paid wages at some high piece-rate, because it would have been company's fault. The No.2 man got into the task along with a few workers of the Banbury mixer department and just at the end of the day he put the machine working once again.

Since I am not knowledgeable about the finer details, the talk was that the No.1 did not know anything about the intricate details of how that machine worked and he was merely trying, all the time, to rotate the mixer proper.

So, dashboard, delegation, micro-management and similar other jargons apart, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. One who can make things work again is definitely more an asset to a profit-oriented company. For the Nehruvian public sector companies, perhaps jargons might have counted more and decentralization could have gone even to the extent of today's outsourcing.

Dear Mr. Sangom,

I enjoyed reading your post with a chuckle. That reminds me of a story we keep hearing again and again in Management schools. That is about how a problem that cropped up in a production line in a mfg co. was solved. The story goes like this. It was a Japanese Company (Management Schools like only Japanese Companies these days to take as an example) which was manufacturing some thing which used to be filled in bottles, sealed, put in a card board container sealed and then made into cartons for transporting to stocking godowns. All this was done mechanically in a production line. They had a problem. Some of the cartons were getting sealed without getting the bottle in. They tried to solve this problem by installing a scanner and then a laser beam and a detector in tandem. But this did not work satisfactorily. A worker came and suggested a simple solution. He directed the stream of air from a fan at the moving column of cartons and those which were empty got blown away and fell into a separate container. The problem was solved. The worker was suitably rewarded and the company moved on. The students too finished their MBA programme and went home realising the benefit of lateral thinking. The story did not say that the worker concerned had a halo around his head, or that he was given the position of the head of the Engineering Department. If any of this had happened he might well have been a failure in that position. People have various levels of maximum inefficiency, says Peter's principle, and they rise upto that level in an organization.