IIT Madras resorts to life skills training to cut campus suicides

[sravna]

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IITs provide one of the best education up to Masters in my view and judging by the disproportionate number of successful people it has produced worldwide the institutions have earned respect in the world. That success in the world has to do with learning to excel in a number of dimensions that are not taught in any IITs.

In that sense education in places like IIT teach one how to learn. Most schools in India that I know emphasize memorization and regurgitation and many IIT courses do emphasize problem solving like many western schools. This does enable one to think and learning to think.

The entrance exam is very difficult and the number of qualified students far exceed the number of available seats. Therefore getting into IIT is seen as a big deal.

For most part in all other qualities like physical abilities, emotional intelligence, and abilities to work with others etc., graduates of IIT and other such good schools are no different statistically than the world at large in my experience. The entrance exam and teaching program has enabled IIT graduates on average to develop better problem solving abilities as judged by their success in their profession.

India and IIT education has a long way to go in the world stage when one looks at the world rankings. These rankings tend to be political by the way the criteria are designed. Regardless let us see how IIT education is ranked in the world stage by many ranking organizations.

One significant factor that works in favor of those graduating from the IITs is the relative ease with which they are accepted for their ability compared to the rest. So more opportunities are forthcoming for them than for a REC graduate or a CIT graduate.

It is debatable whether IIT teaches you to think though it makes you think. A diligent student in any other institute can think and learn as much as the ones in IITs do. The same reasoning can be applied to success in the workplace.

I think what Indian education mainly needs is promotion and support for research. The government has to make research as a high priority and to get really ahead in research we need to follow our own model, to an extent the Japanese had done earlier. The government should also encourage bright students to remain in the country.

 

[kunjuppu]

One significant factor that works in favor of those graduating from the IITs is the relative ease with which they are accepted for their ability compared to the rest. So more opportunities are forthcoming for them than for a REC graduate or a CIT graduate.

It is debatable whether IIT teaches you to think though it makes you think. A diligent student in any other institute can think and learn as much as the ones in IITs do. The same reasoning can be applied to success in the workplace.

I think what Indian education mainly needs is promotion and support for research. The government has to make research as a high priority and to get really ahead in research we need to follow our own model, to an extent the Japanese had done earlier. The government should also encourage bright students to remain in the country.

absolutely correct!! iit is a great door opener. but once in, everyone is equal i guess.

 

[tks]

It is debatable whether IIT teaches you to think though it makes you think..

How do you know it is debatable? I am speaking from personal experience, experience of those that have graduated over the years that I have hired and know as leaders in many profession, knowledge of my class mates, knowing the curriculum, and personally knowing the teachers in many IITs that are my classmates. There is nothing to debate unless you have some other facts.

Not all students may gain from teaching and one does not have to attend IIT to learn to think.

The program is designed for 'learning to learn' and teach people not to shoot from the hip or rely on memorization.

 

[sravna]

How do you know it is debatable? I am speaking from personal experience, experience of those that have graduated over the years that I have hired and know as leaders in many profession, knowledge of my class mates, knowing the curriculum, and personally knowing the teachers in many IITs that are my classmates. There is nothing to debate unless you have some other facts.

Not all students may gain from teaching and one does not have to attend IIT to learn to think.

The program is designed for 'learning to learn' and teach people not to shoot from the hip or rely on memorization.

Dear Shri TKS,

By thinking you mean trying to be creative, I am sorry IIT I am sure cannot claim to teach one to think. On the other hand if only some mechanical process is learnt I don't find much value in it and as you say you do not need IIT to teach you that.

That is the reason I said it is debatable because it depends on what you mean by teaching to think.

 

[tks]

Dear Shri TKS,

By thinking you mean trying to be creative, I am sorry IIT I am sure cannot claim to teach one to think. On the other hand if only some mechanical process is learnt I don't find much value in it and as you say you do not need IIT to teach you that.

That is the reason I said it is debatable because it depends on what you mean by teaching to think.

Creativity has nothing to do with learning to think.. It is being able to analyze, understand, abstract, learn to figure out..etc
Based on your past posts, I honestly do not think you will be able to understand so I will stop further debate from my side at this point.

 

[sravna]

Creativity has nothing to do with learning to think.. It is being able to analyze, understand, abstract, learn to figure out..etc
Based on your past posts, I honestly do not think you will be able to understand so I will stop further debate from my side at this point.

When I said thinking is creative in nature I meant, one cannot be taught to think because it is not a mechanical process that happens step by step. How we think is not a well understood area. You even cannot say this is step 1, this is step 2 or first you analyze, then you understand and so on. Even if you can say that, implementing these steps faithfully ,that is the ability to analyze or understand is highly individualistic. So how can one claim that thinking can be taught?

 

[vgane]

When I said thinking is creative in nature I meant, one cannot be taught to think because it is not a mechanical process that happens step by step. How we think is not a well understood area. You even cannot say this is step 1, this is step 2 or first you analyze, then you understand and so on. Even if you can say that, implementing these steps faithfully ,that is the ability to analyze or understand is highly individualistic. So how can one claim that thinking can be taught?

No Sir...Suppose you are given a passage & you have to comprehend the passage and respond to the questions...It involves application and there are no direct answers from the passage...What will you do...Are you not forced to think

IIT Unit tests/exams do not lay emphasis on memory or responding verbatim from book...You have to wear the thinking hat before you respond..So IIT's do play an important role in kindling the spirit of thinking

 

[sravna]

No Sir...Suppose you are given a passage & you have to comprehend the passage and respond to the questions...It involves application and there are no direct answers from the passage...What will you do...Are you not forced to think

IIT Unit tests/exams do not lay emphasis on memory or responding verbatim from book...You have to wear the thinking hat before you respond..So IIT's do play an important role in kindling the spirit of thinking

Dear Shri Vgane,

As I pointed out in an earlier post, the debate is not about whether IIT curriculum forces you to think but whether it teaches you to think. I think there is a difference between the two

 

[vgane]

Dear Shri Vgane,

As I pointed out in an earlier post, the debate is not about whether IIT curriculum forces you to think but whether it teaches you to think. I think there is a difference between the two

In a formal school there are various ways we educate a small kid..Is it only by teaching in class?...No there are various additional things that the student is asked to do so that he learns it effectively..By asking the child to read, write (class work & home work) & make a presentation..So unless you make the child do all of this you cannot say teaching is complete

In similar terms, IIT curriculum is teaching you to think by forcing you to use your brain in various ways....There cannot be a thinking session as such....It cannot be part of formal classroom training ever..At best critical thinking can be taught outside class rooms in informal sessions

Pl read following article

Critical Thinking Is Best Taught Outside the Classroom: Scientific American

 

[sravna]

In a formal school there are various ways we educate a small kid..Is it only by teaching in class?...No there are various additional things that the student is asked to do so that he learns it effectively..By asking the child to read, write (class work & home work) & make a presentation..So unless you make the child do all of this you cannot say teaching is complete

In similar terms in IIT curriculum is teaching you to think by forcing you to use your brain in various ways....There cannot be a thinking session as such....It cannot be part of formal classroom training ever..At best critical thinking can be taught outside class rooms in informal sessions

Pl read following article

Critical Thinking Is Best Taught Outside the Classroom: Scientific American

Dear Shri Vgane,

An informative article. It basically talks about the ability to ask questions as crucial to learning to think. If you read it carefully you find the aspects of thinking that actually improve in quality are the ability to better frame the problem and the ability to better understand the solution. I agree that these aspects can improve because all you need to do is to follow a step by step approach to them.

But the heart of thinking which is getting at the solution is basically intuitive in nature and will elude any step by step approach. This is especially applicable to the area of higher education and research where success is largely dictated by innate thinking capabilities than by acquired skills.

 

[tks]

When I said thinking is creative in nature I meant, one cannot be taught to think because it is not a mechanical process that happens step by step. How we think is not a well understood area. You even cannot say this is step 1, this is step 2 or first you analyze, then you understand and so on. Even if you can say that, implementing these steps faithfully ,that is the ability to analyze or understand is highly individualistic. So how can one claim that thinking can be taught?

Sri Sravana

Since you are asking a question - clarification or otherwise I can engage. I don't like to debate opinions or beliefs or statements not supported by facts or statements that may show lack of critical thinking.

In general as human beings we are endowed with powers to think logically in a step by step manner and also think in an intuitive manner. The former I am told is a 'left brain' activity and later is a 'right brain activity'.

Innovation, 'learning to learn' and learning to ask critical questions can often be taught. What may appear to be a result of a creative genius is often output of methodical learning (left brain), and intuitive understanding (right brain) supported by a strong character (e.g., honesty in research, emphasis to not 'shoot from the hip' without doing due diligence, deal with reality and truth as findings happen etc).

I am sure you have heard Edison's quote " Genius is one percent inspiration, 99% perspiration"

Programs such as IIT emphasize problem solving that makes people think about how to construct solutions sometimes in unchartered territories.


When my daughter was in 10th grade there was a class where the students were asked to come up with an idea and then make it happen. She came up with two projects as suggestion without any real help from anyone (basically made up some ideas without looking at feasibility etc.) . One was to design a pen to write in three dimension in space and the other was to photograph a nearby galaxy .

The teacher assigned the later (photographing the Andromeda Galaxy) and said "make it happen, the school cannot help much but you have to figure out how to get this done". I had no time to personally help as I was traveling a lot internationally on business.

Now she had to devise a plan and make this happen in the next 3 months.

Such projects make students think and develop thinking skills beyond some technical work that is amenable to description in terms of several steps.


Let me give a reference that show that left brain activities (methodical and step by step) supports significantly the creative output of the right brain. Therefore all these are subject to learning in a right program.

Exploring the Neural Correlates of Visual Creativity


Regards

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri TKS,

I do agree that you can design programs that can help improve on certain aspects of your thinking skills. But I doubt if enhancement of the skills can be substantive. Thinking is not something that will change qualitatively with experience. Why do you think an aptitude test is an indispensable part of the admissions process to colleges and universities? Or why do you think accomplishing AI proves to be such a challenge?

 

[mskmoorthy]

Sorry for continuing the digression from the main topic of this thread.

I think there is a confusion whether thinking can be made algorithmic - May be it could be - Currently it (algorithmic conversion of thinking) has not been that successful. However humans can learn to think - not clear how humans accomplish this (even some animals can do) (Understanding how that could be done algorithmically is still an outstanding research problem). If one gets exposed to a large number of problems, one learns some strategies and develops his/her own problem solving methods. By no means this is an easy task. It may take a long time for some (only thing is that person should not lose hope and confidence - that is where the teachers, family members, mentors and peers come into play - to help in time of need).

Here are a few references that may be helpful - some for high school, some for middle school, and some for undergraduate students
http://tinyurl.com/nsgdm9y
Art of Problem Solving (AoPS)
AMC 10/AMC 12/AIME Videos
https://www.khanacademy.org/
https://www.udacity.com/
https://www.coursera.org/
MIT OpenCourseWare | Free Online Course Materials

http://www.math.hmc.edu/~su/papers.dir/leitzel.pdf

Here is a math test I/We composed to expose some problem solving to 6th, 7th grade students in a municipal school in Sembakkam (near Tambaram) - We even gave chocolates to all the students taking the test and gave prize money to high scoring students (after consulting with the school principal - who was very receptive) - Most of the students who attend this school come from an economically disadvantaged society (where education takes secondary importance - may be rightly so)

http://tinyurl.com/lxl582n



(My apologies for Tamil spelling mistakes)

Here is a maker camp from Google
https://plus.google.com/communities/107377046073638428310

There are a plenty of opportunities - One needs patience, tenacity, hard work and a little bit of luck.

I have given plenty of links - If you have known/seen all/some of them my apologies.

 

[tks]

Dear Shri TKS,

I do agree that you can design programs that can help improve on certain aspects of your thinking skills. But I doubt if enhancement of the skills can be substantive. Thinking is not something that will change qualitatively with experience. Why do you think an aptitude test is an indispensable part of the admissions process to colleges and universities? Or why do you think accomplishing AI proves to be such a challenge?

Sri Sravana

What you agree or disagree is actually irrelevant to discussions since many of the posts are not about beliefs or opinions but factual data from scholarly articles or data from actual experience.

I do not have any comments on your opinions.

Sri mskmoorthy has provided excellent summary and has answered the source of your questions with many references.

In my view, I think it is time for you to process all the information provided by many members in this thread.. All the best

 

[vgane]

An interesting presentation on how suicides are tackled at Purdue University...Please read Pages 16-18 especially...I got this from the net

View attachment suicide prevention.pdf