Interview about Spirituality

[renuka]

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Here are some more thoughts. Since spiritual energy is a harmonising energy you cannot do anything negative with it but it is possible that you use it in a selfish way, that is for one's own good. The balance between good of self and good of others increase with more and more power until a point is reached after which one uses it in a perfectly balanced way. So eventually, one and all are benefited

Harmonizing energy....true...it releases endorphins.

Can not do anything negative...in a way true...cos its actually a creative force.

Yes..slightly selfish at times cos it has shades of personal pleasure!

Whatever balancing act it does..the fact is it does increase with more and more power until a point is reached!

True..everyone benefits with an after glow immaterial if it was a solo effort or a group effort.


Hey Sravna..you just described the sexual act! Masha Allah!

 

[Vaagmi]

Harmonizing energy....true...it releases endorphins.

Can not do anything negative...in a way true...cos its actually a creative force.

Yes..slightly selfish at times cos it has shades of personal pleasure!

Whatever balancing act it does..the fact is it does increase with more and more power until a point is reached!

True..everyone benefits with an after glow immaterial if it was a solo effort or a group effort.


Hey Sravna..you just described the sexual act! Masha Allah!

Yah Allah!!

Intha ponnukku nalla buththiya kuduppaa.

Sravnaavai inthapponnukitterunthu kaappaaththuppa.

 

[renuka]

Yah Allah!!

Intha ponnukku nalla buththiya kuduppaa.

Sravnaavai inthapponnukitterunthu kaappaaththuppa.

Narayana!

Cintanam Ma Karoti Bhavan.

 

[sravna]

Harmonizing energy....true...it releases endorphins.

Can not do anything negative...in a way true...cos its actually a creative force.

Yes..slightly selfish at times cos it has shades of personal pleasure!

Whatever balancing act it does..the fact is it does increase with more and more power until a point is reached!

True..everyone benefits with an after glow immaterial if it was a solo effort or a group effort.


Hey Sravna..you just described the sexual act! Masha Allah!

Renuka,

I understand, reality is one. It is what you see and describe that differs

 

[renuka]

Renuka,

I understand, reality is one. It is what you see and describe that differs

Ekam Sat Pamarah Bahuda Vadanti.

 

[auh]

Nowadays I try to steer clear of Sravna's threads as I feel completely lost in a maze. But this one, I couldnt help...

post # 15 for reference

I believe the more the spiritual power the more it is likely that is used exactly in alignment with nature.

Nature is both creation and destruction. It is selfish, and generous. Stable and unstable.

Your interpretation of nature and the "harmony of spiritual power with nature", in a way, reveals your mistaken perception of it all. Nature is nature. Unrelenting. Trying to find a wee bit of it to suit a pet theory is not spirituality.

It all lies with the unproven presumption that nature follows a pattern that is always harmonious(?). A loaded premise.

 

[sravna]

Nowadays I try to steer clear of Sravna's threads as I feel completely lost in a maze. But this one, I couldnt help...

post # 15 for reference Nature is both creation and destruction. It is selfish, and generous. Stable and unstable.

Your interpretation of nature and the "harmony of spiritual power with nature", in a way, reveals your mistaken perception of it all. Nature is nature. Unrelenting. Trying to find a wee bit of it to suit a pet theory is not spirituality.

It all lies with the unproven presumption that nature follows a pattern that is always harmonious(?). A loaded premise.

Dear Shri Auh,

It is hard to reconcile two diametrically opposite views. But let me say, there is the school of thought that says that real state of nature is one of harmony and all of us are trying to reach that state of harmony. There is no prima facie reason to support your view of nature but I am open to argument.

 

[auh]

Dear Shri Auh,

It is hard to reconcile two diametrically opposite views. But let me say, there is the school of thought that says that real state of nature is one of harmony and all of us are trying to reach that state of harmony. There is no prima facie reason to support your view of nature but I am open to argument.

It is not my view but what we see. Nature is just nature and does not confirm to anything that you or me think. We are only trying to find a predictable pattern in its unpredictability.

 

[sravna]

It is not my view but what we see. Nature is just nature and does not confirm to anything that you or me think. We are only trying to find a predictable pattern in its unpredictability.

Dear Shri Auh,

Trying to experiment and make predictions may be the path of science. It is my belief and also the belief of many others that the real purpose of birth and rebirths is to gain total knowledge about reality. A lot of great sages in the past have endeavoured on that path and have given us valuable knowledge about nature. So there is this quest to know about nature absolutely.

 

[auh]

Dear Shri Auh,

Trying to experiment and make predictions may be the path of science. It is my belief and also the belief of many others that the real purpose of birth and rebirths is to gain total knowledge about reality. A lot of great sages in the past have endeavoured on that path and have given us valuable knowledge about nature.

Dear Sravna,

AFAIK, predictions are out of the realm of science. If you are talking probability, it is a different matter. When you talk about a particular hypothesis, you cannot prove it with another hypothesis. You are just piling up hypothesis without bothering to PROVE them.

And in such a meandering, your case is simply lost.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

AFAIK, predictions are out of the realm of science. If you are talking probability, it is a different matter. When you talk about a particular hypothesis, you cannot prove it with another hypothesis. You are just piling up hypothesis without bothering to PROVE them.

And in such a meandering, your case is simply lost.

Dear Shri Auh,

I try to present my case in an intuitive way. I do not want to establish that 2+2=4 with voluminous proofs. That is when you really get lost. Though that is the way some prefer, I personally prefer the intuitive approach.

 

[Vaagmi]

It is not my view but what we see. Nature is just nature and does not confirm to anything that you or me think. We are only trying to find a predictable pattern in its unpredictability.

This statement may not be very correct. Please study Chaos Theory. You may change your views.

 

[auh]

This statement may not be very correct. Please study Chaos Theory. You may change your views.

I have nibbled the surface of the theory when browsing for other references, but since you mentioned it specifically I googled for it.

http://fractalfoundation.org/resources/what-is-chaos-theory/

[h=5]Principles of Chaos[/h]

• The Butterfly Effect: This effect grants the power to cause a hurricane in China to a butterfly flapping its wings in New Mexico. It may take a very long time, but the connection is real. If the butterfly had not flapped its wings at just the right point in space/time, the hurricane would not have happened. A more rigorous way to express this is that small changes in the initial conditions lead to drastic changes in the results. Our lives are an ongoing demonstration of this principle. Who knows what the long-term effects of teaching millions of kids about chaos and fractals will be?

• Unpredictability: Because we can never know all the initial conditions of a complex system in sufficient (i.e. perfect) detail, we cannot hope to predict the ultimate fate of a complex system. Even slight errors in measuring the state of a system will be amplified dramatically, rendering any prediction useless. Since it is impossible to measure the effects of all the butterflies (etc) in the World, accurate long-range weather prediction will always remain impossible.

• Order / Disorder Chaos is not simply disorder. Chaos explores the transitions between order and disorder, which often occur in surprising ways.

• Mixing: Turbulence ensures that two adjacent points in a complex system will eventually end up in very different positions after some time has elapsed. Examples: Two neighboring water molecules may end up in different parts of the ocean or even in different oceans. A group of helium balloons that launch together will eventually land in drastically different places. Mixing is thorough because turbulence occurs at all scales. It is also nonlinear: fluids cannot be unmixed.

• Feedback: Systems often become chaotic when there is feedback present. A good example is the behavior of the stock market. As the value of a stock rises or falls, people are inclined to buy or sell that stock. This in turn further affects the price of the stock, causing it to rise or fall chaotically.

• Fractals: A fractal is a never-ending pattern. Fractals are infinitely complex patterns that are self-similar across different scales. They are created by repeating a simple process over and over in an ongoing feedback loop. Driven by recursion, fractals are images of dynamic systems – the pictures of Chaos. Geometrically, they exist in between our familiar dimensions. Fractal patterns are extremely familiar, since nature is full of fractals. For instance: trees, rivers, coastlines, mountains, clouds, seashells, hurricanes, etc.

At the bottom was an interesting quote from Einstein

As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.”

Now I think you are arguing in my favour !

 

[raysundar]

Sravna,
Have you ever thought of a way of measuring spiritual energy?

As a scientific parallel, we only talk of electron as a particle revolving around the nucleus.
No one has till today seen an electron. If you try to see it it will move away when a photon impinges on it.
In fact its particle nature and its mass has only been computed as an equivalent to it energy using the mass-energy equation proposed by Einstein.

With your extensive Spiritual insights you should be able to do something similar. May be use Neuron volts as the unit of measure!

 

[raysundar]

Another Q. Similar to speed of light, is there a speed of thought and does it have a limit in whatever ultimate medium it travels?

 

[sravna]

Sravna,
Have you ever thought of a way of measuring spiritual energy?

As a scientific parallel, we only talk of electron as a particle revolving around the nucleus.
No one has till today seen an electron. If you try to see it it will move away when a photon impinges on it.
In fact its particle nature and its mass has only been computed as an equivalent to it energy using the mass-energy equation proposed by Einstein.

With your extensive Spiritual insights you should be able to do something similar. May be use Neuron volts as the unit of measure!

Dear Raysundar,

I think one can measure spiritual power in terms of physical power. A setting that I can imagine is to employ spiritual energy to make a human body resistant to the effects of physical energy. One can find the power that breaks the interconnectedness of the body i.e., when the physical energy starts producing effects and the measure of physical power required to produce the effects would be a measure of spiritual power.

 

[sravna]

Another Q. Similar to speed of light, is there a speed of thought and does it have a limit in whatever ultimate medium it travels?

In my view thoughts transcend space and are everywhere the instant they are produced since their reality is a level higher than the reality of physical energy.

 

[raysundar]

Sravna,
After I posted the Q's I went your website and read your writeup on Logical Understanding and Applications of Spirituality

It is fairly clear that Spirituality and Science are +inf and -inf meaning they are infinitely far apart or infinitesimally close.
You say measure Spiritual power via a conversion to physical power.

I have only heard of stories about such things.
Long back there was this political leader, Morarji Desai, who I think became PM of India and even visited US. He claimed to drink his own urine for health benefits, and people in America joked that the US President should propose a toast to him with Urine!
Anyway, the story goes that when he was imprisoned, I believe by Indira Gandhi during her emergency rule, the guards who were watching him in prison say they saw him performing Yoga and lifting up his physical body by defying gravity through meditative power of Yoga and trying to escape from an opening above!

I dismissed that as total nonsense unless it can repeated in front of Scientific audience.

Is that what you mean by conversion of spiritual power to physical power.

 

[renuka]

Another Q. Similar to speed of light, is there a speed of thought and does it have a limit in whatever ultimate medium it travels?

Good question...speed of thought in a healthy human is actually hard to decipher cos thought process too needs substrate for energy source and is the mind actually capable to transmit thought waves without a medium?

For example in vacuum or in space...can thought waves of a person orbiting in space be transmitted to another person on earth?

 

[sravna]

Sravna,
After I posted the Q's I went your website and read your writeup on Logical Understanding and Applications of Spirituality

It is fairly clear that Spirituality and Science are +inf and -inf meaning they are infinitely far apart or infinitesimally close.
You say measure Spiritual power via a conversion to physical power.

I have only heard of stories about such things.
Long back there was this political leader, Morarji Desai, who I think became PM of India and even visited US. He claimed to drink his own urine for health benefits, and people in America joked that the US President should propose a toast to him with Urine!
Anyway, the story goes that when he was imprisoned, I believe by Indira Gandhi during her emergency rule, the guards who were watching him in prison say they saw him performing Yoga and lifting up his physical body by defying gravity through meditative power of Yoga and trying to escape from an opening above!

I dismissed that as total nonsense unless it can repeated in front of Scientific audience.

Is that what you mean by conversion of spiritual power to physical power.

Dear Shri Raysundar,

Reread my previous reply and if you are still not able to understand, I will try to explain it in due course. Kindly be patient.

 

[raysundar]

Dr. Renuka,
After seeing your other postings I see that you are in real life a Medical Doctor, well versed in Sanskrit and our Vedic Scriptures.
My salutations and congratulations to you for your intelligence and knowledge.

I believe some research is going in the field of human thought and whether it can be transmitted between two humans.
With regard to this though, I first of all have a more fundamental thought.

A person born completely blind, with eye as a sensory organ completely shut off, what does the blind person perceive as the colors, like red, blue, green etc. Because all that wee sense is interpreted by our thoughts to correspond to some stored info in the brain.
So that may be a cue to understand how thought can be transmitted and what is its medium.
Now that I am retired I am free to focus on this interesting subject of Science and Spirituality in this thread line of discussions.

 

[renuka]

Anyway, the story goes that when he was imprisoned, I believe by Indira Gandhi during her emergency rule, the guards who were watching him in prison say they saw him performing Yoga and lifting up his physical body by defying gravity through meditative power of Yoga and trying to escape from an opening above!

.

But if someone who has this much power why would he want to break out of jail unlawfully?

Does not seem right somewhere.

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,


Question : Since you say you depend more on intuition..what is the percentage of error in you using spiritual powers?

 

[raysundar]

But if someone who has this much power why would he want to break out of jail unlawfully?

Does not seem right somewhere.

The reporting was done by the guard so this is the observation of the guard and his assumption is that the reason he was practicing his Yoga to lift up defying gravity(which he claimed he saw) was for escaping. I am not sure if Morarji Deasi was asked about this yogic feat or what he said about it. Remember these are all just hearsay info. I was not witness to that.
This is where the faithful who believe in the power of Yoga as method for converting "Spiritual Power" to "Physical power" will believe this to be true and even quite possible.

I think this is the subject of Sravna's research at present!
As he suggests I will wait eagerly/patiently for his (contd) writings on the subject.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,


Question : Since you say you depend more on intuition..what is the percentage of error in you using spiritual powers?

The difficulty is mostly in estimating the exact time frame for the solution. If you remember I have been mentioning that I feel the power is increasing constantly and the reduction or the total disappearance of ailments that I have been having seems to be a testimony to that, So I think after a certain level of power most of the problems can be solved by thoughts alone.