Intra human Marriages

[Chintana]

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Clarification

I meant all your views pertaining to this thread, this issue. I realize there have been several sub-issues and other meanderings, hence the term 'all your views'.

If you want to use an example to illustrate the issue in this thread please make your example relevant to this particular topic.

I only answered your question.

You asked me



You asked about "all my views", "how they contribute" and "what issue I am singling out as a problem".So i had to explain it with some examples.

 

[Chintana]

On counting your vote

Dear Sri KRS,

When I checked the ids of the posters who contributed to the development of this thread before my posting #60 on this thread I did not find yours. As it is not fair for a non-contributor to decide if a thread should be kept open or not, your vote was not counted.

Thank you for giving me a chance to clarify.

By the way, I voted to continue this thread, but Sri Chintana Ji must not have added it as I put in in a thread.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[Chintana]

We are interested in maintaining our sense of community

It looks like you are advocating a point of view that will dissolve our community. Anybody who has tried "eradicating jathis" has failed in the past including Mahatma Gandhi. We believe that given current conditions eradicating jathis is not an option open to any caste group in our society. We need to rely on our community for all kinds of things.

In today's context almost every caste group has an association and is keen on promoting the interests of its own members. This forum does not see why our community should be an exception.

Love marriages can take place even within a single caste group. One does not have to eradicate caste to have love marriages.

I'd like for you to recognize that this forum, as a whole does NOT support the idea that caste CAN be eradicated.

I will let this posting stand as it has given me an opportunity to establish what the forum is about and what it is not about.

But any more 'caste/jathi eradication' ideas from you will not find a place here, i.e., I will remove that posting. If you want to advocate that view I am sure you will find plenty of other avenues. We will be sorry to see you go but if you give us no other option we will exercise it.

KRS sir,

Your posts always stress human freedom and that reflected in your vote.The one difference I see from your posts and that of others is that you try to integrate the past with the present.Others refuse the present and try to go back to the past.You try to analyze how the present life makes sense with past values.You try to reform religion by religion and that is why it is a learning experience for me who is a little bit skeptic about organized religions.

As you said, love marrieges on their own will not eradicate jathis.But I believe that in the long run, they can.Minds hardened by casteism can only be opened by love.That doesnt mean that I am advocating it as a remedy for all problems that plague our society.I am also not forcing it on all.How can anyone force love on anybody?

I only stress that people should have an open heart.Elders should really respect the choice of youngsters.It is their world, their future.India is not going to turn upisde down in one day.Not all are going to rush to love marriages even if they get that freedom.I believe that even after a 100 more years, arranged marriages will out number love marriages in India.But hopefully we will become much more open as days go on.

 

[gurumurthyji]

You did not say this before.....

Sri.Chintana Sir,

Dear Sri KRS,

When I checked the ids of the posters who contributed to the development of this thread before my posting #60 on this thread I did not find yours. As it is not fair for a non-contributor to decide if a thread should be kept open or not, your vote was not counted.

Thank you for giving me a chance to clarify.

Your did not say this before. More over whether I contribute to any thread or not, I certainly go through all the postings. As long as I feel I do not have anything worthwhile to contribute, I normally do not post. So Chintanaji is this norm is going to be the future methdology? Please think over this again.

GURUMURTHYJI

 

[mrifan]

Finally..

Finally a Brahmana forum that favors Brahmanas. Maybe things are turning around. Good decision. I guess I will cancel my subscription to countercurrents.org. I was beginning to find more pro-Brahmana articles there!

It looks like you are advocating a point of view that will dissolve our community. Anybody who has tried "eradicating jathis" have failed in the past including Mahatma Gandhi. We believe that given current conditions eradicating jathis is not an option open to any caste group in our society. We need to rely on our community for all kinds of things.

In today's context almost every caste group has an association and is keen on promoting the interests of its own members. This forum does not see why our community should be an exception.

Love marriages can take place even within a single caste group. One does not have to eradicate caste to have love marriages.

I'd like for you to recognize that this forum, as a whole does NOT support the idea that caste CAN be eradicated.

I will let this posting stand as it has given me an opportunity to establish what the forum is about and what it is not about.

But any more 'caste/jathi eradication' ideas from you will not find a place here, i.e., I will remove that posting. If you want to advocate that view I am sure you will find plenty of other avenues. We will be sorry to see you go but if you give us no other option we will exercise it.

 

[mrifan]

Seems fair

If someone actually goes to the trouble of logging in and posting, it is only fair that they influence the decision. If readers do not agree, they can also post their views. So this seems fair to me.

Sri.Chintana Sir,



Your did not say this before. More over whether I contribute to any thread or not, I certainly go through all the postings. As long as I feel I do not have anything worthwhile to contribute, I normally do not post. So Chintanaji is this norm is going to be the future methdology? Please think over this again.

GURUMURTHYJI

 

[hariharan1972]

Relieved | Few Points

When i logged in today, i was half-expecting a post on why Indo - Pak Intra Human marriages are a must given the fact that :

a) They are now officially the same jathi - jathi of first round world cup exiters

b) Such an alliance would create a world beating team.

Anyways !!!!!

Chintana,

You have been doing a fabulous job as a moderator. I also request your intervention to :

a) Steer the thread towards some beneficial discussion.

b) Avoid over emphasizing a point & getting stuck.

Ofcourse keeping in mind that this cannot be done real time.

Perhaps you could consider creating a voting screen where valid users could vote. I feel both contributors & non contributing members' views can be considered on issues requiring a vote since the decision can be taken on a larger base.

 

[Chintana]

Point noted

Thank you. I am indeed looking at this issue. An answer will evolve soon enough and this question will be answered.

Sri.Chintana Sir,



Your did not say this before. More over whether I contribute to any thread or not, I certainly go through all the postings. As long as I feel I do not have anything worthwhile to contribute, I normally do not post. So Chintanaji is this norm is going to be the future methdology? Please think over this again.

GURUMURTHYJI

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri KRS,

When I checked the ids of the posters who contributed to the development of this thread before my posting #60 on this thread I did not find yours. As it is not fair for a non-contributor to decide if a thread should be kept open or not, your vote was not counted.

Thank you for giving me a chance to clarify.

Dear Sri Chintana Ji,

I did not read your voting instructions properly and therefore voted! Sorry for the confusion and more work for yourself that I caused.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[Chintana]

Thank you

My responses to hariharan are in maroon italics below:

When i logged in today, i was half-expecting a post on why Indo - Pak Intra Human marriages are a must given the fact that :

a) They are now officially the same jathi - jathi of first round world cup exiters

b) Such an alliance would create a world beating team.

Anyways !!!!!

I hear you. Sorry that you, as several others, became exasperated in the process.

Chintana,

You have been doing a fabulous job as a moderator.

Thank you. I am glad that my contributions have been useful. It is not an easy job.

I also request your intervention to :

a) Steer the thread towards some beneficial discussion.

I can post suggestions. If they are useful then posters can go with it. If they want something else, so be it. As long as.... (by now I think you'd know what I'd say here )

b) Avoid over emphasizing a point & getting stuck.

Unfortunately not everybody gets it the first time. Even if they do, some people might believe that we will not follow up our words with action (in typical apathetic, Indian government style).

So I explain why their ideas are unacceptable. Giving fair warning is part of my job.

That gives them a chance to reorient themselves. And I'd welcome that. Afterall this forum does not want to alienate its own kind.

But if they persist they can be sure that every promised action will be followed every inch of the way.

We'd like to see a sense of community responsibility in our members, even amongst those who do not currently have such a stong sense.

But it takes time to establish that irresponsibility towards community will NOT be rewarded. NOT here; NOT by us.

Repetition seems like a small price to pay for such big gains.


Ofcourse keeping in mind that this cannot be done real time.

Perhaps you could consider creating a voting screen where valid users could vote. I feel both contributors & non contributing members' views can be considered on issues requiring a vote since the decision can be taken on a larger base.

It is definitely a thought. I will run it by the rest of the team for a resolution.

But for now, it seems fair to decide that non-contributors should probably be included in the voting process but contributors votes should somehow have more value. How does this sound? - One contributor's vote is equal to two non-contributors' votes.

 

[Chintana]

Probable direction for this thread?

I am acting upon Sri Hariharan's (posting #107) suggestion.

Posters, would you like to discuss how marriage itself can be a form of community service? (Please avoid discussing the obvious point of producing children and taking care of the elderly).

What are some of the things prescribed for us? How much of that can we do today?

At the end of the discussion, your point-counterpoint should have produced an idea which should appear on our volunteering agenda.

Would you like to try this line of thought?

 

[gurumurthyji]

It is difficult ....

But for now, it seems fair to decide that non-contributors should probably be included in the voting process but contributors votes should somehow have more value. How does this sound? - One contributor's vote is equal to two non-contributors' votes.

Again it is difficult to define what is one's contribution. And one can always send a small contribution to make the eligibility. Then the whole issue will be diverted from the main topic to meaningless discussion. Democracy and voting in the present form is always difficult to practice. (chennai corporation election )

GURUMURTHYJI

 

[Chintana]

Surmounting difficulties

We can't refrain from having a solution simply because it is a difficult problem.

Do you have other suggestions in mind?

Again it is difficult to define what is one's contribution. And one can always send a small contribution to make the eligibility. Then the whole issue will be diverted from the main topic to meaningless discussion. Democracy and voting in the present form is always difficult to practice. (chennai corporation election )

GURUMURTHYJI

 

[Chintana]

Why again?

Mrifan!! Why are you bringing up this issue again? We have decided that we are not going to have postings of this sort (I am referring to your Kashyap quote) on this thread.

If you want to suggest that we should think of counseling activities then just say so and leave it at that. Please don't undo all the good work that has been done so far in picking up a direction for this thread.

My question in the posting suggesting a new direction (#111) was - how is marriage considered as an institution that helps society?

Any solution/suggestion should come AFTER this issue (or something similar) is debated out.

If you want to get to suggestions straight, please post them in the volunteers thread.

This was very sad to read, a promising life cut short. People in many cases do not realize that other than parents, no one else has as much experience, and as much interest in the welfare of their child. They will always be there, even if the child makes a mistake, and sacrifice their lives to do so.

Maybe, this website could create a marriage counseling section where such stories could be posted. I think something like this would be very important to underline the fact that marriage due to infatuation, and crossing traditional cultural lines, while successful in some cases, requires a lot of careful thinking to prevent ending up like this. Instead it is probably best to keep relations friendly and public in college or the workplace.

 

[gurumurthyji]

'Pro-active' - that is welcome.....

You are right 'something under the full control' not necessarily acceptable to all is required. You can have a list of writers who are good, impartial and above personal likes & dis likes. Private opinion from such people of our samaj should be acceptable to all. In voting even if majority votes for a opinion which is not good for the samj is also bad. And even if only one vote for a opinion which is good for the samaj can be ignored.

GURUMURTHYJI

 

[kashyap]

How marriage contribute to the community/society/nation.

I am just quoting Gururmurthy(not the one from this forum but who writes in Express) here

The divorce rate in the US has doubled between 1960 and 1998. Don’t dismiss it as merely a cultural fall. It is economic as well. The state had to step in to fill the void in families. So the social security cost, that is the cost of caring for the aged and the infirm, unemployed and others, has skyrocketed. Many in the West are frightened of this time bomb ticking under their economies. Some of the best minds in the US fear that the emerging ‘Fatherless America’, as one writer put it, will bankrupt the country.

In contrast, the entire social security cost is privatised in India through the traditional family mechanism. But for such traditional families the Indian state would have gone broke long ago.

This was from one of his articles. Thus I see a stable marriage contributes to a stable socisety and country and helps its economy too.

 

[gurumurthyji]

Sri. Chintana ji,

My post No. 115 under this thread is not in order. I am sorry for this. This is due to my slow typing speed and something went wrong with my cut and paste operation. What I wish to say is this.

You are right, we can’t refrain from finding a solution because it is difficult. I suggest that some solution must be there and that must be ultimately under the full control of the admin side. Based on your experience, you have to draw a list of writers from this samaj who are good, impartial and above personal likes & dislikes and give a balanced view whenever the admin solicit ‘in private’ about a particular issue. Such opinions from our samajic persons have to be accepted by all. Take the case of Voting method. Even if there is a majority voting for a particular issue and that is not good for the samaj that cannot be accepted. So also if there is a Single Vote only for a opinion and that is good for the samaj that cannot the rejected. After all we have come together for a good cause of our samaj and everything should be taken in the best interest of the samaj only.

GURUMURTHYJI

 

[Chintana]

Under consideration

Thank you for your suggestion. As a few other posters have requested a 'Samaj' type of arrangement discussions are currently underway on the subject.

Sri. Chintana ji,

My post No. 115 under this thread is not in order. I am sorry for this. This is due to my slow typing speed and something went wrong with my cut and paste operation. What I wish to say is this.

You are right, we can’t refrain from finding a solution because it is difficult. I suggest that some solution must be there and that must be ultimately under the full control of the admin side. Based on your experience, you have to draw a list of writers from this samaj who are good, impartial and above personal likes & dislikes and give a balanced view whenever the admin solicit ‘in private’ about a particular issue. Such opinions from our samajic persons have to be accepted by all. Take the case of Voting method. Even if there is a majority voting for a particular issue and that is not good for the samaj that cannot be accepted. So also if there is a Single Vote only for a opinion and that is good for the samaj that cannot the rejected. After all we have come together for a good cause of our samaj and everything should be taken in the best interest of the samaj only.

GURUMURTHYJI

 

[kudumi]

My view on marriages- the caste part alone.

Friends,
I see a lot of discussions going on about the interhuman marriages, stuff like that.
I as a brahmin do not believe in caste. I will be happy if my son or daughter marries a brahmin, but would not be concerned if they marry someone who does not believe in caste either.
Allow me to elaborate.....assume they wanted to marry an america, or a Japanese, or a British, or a Norwegian...anybody apart from an Indian, I would agree that as a true casteless marriage as these guys honestly dont know what caste is.
I will never agree them marrying any desi outside our own caste because, all Indians are casteist. Let us be honest. Caste runs deep in our blood. Even if brahmins are willing to ignore caste, others are not. So the concept of intercaste marriage to eliminate caste does not arise because, deep down we are all casteist.
With regards,
Kudumi.

 

[Chintana]

Clarification

Dear Posters,

It occured to me that a few clarifications (following the matter in my quote) may be in order.

Our stance on intercaste marriage is as follows:

1. We recognize that several of our members may already be married, some within the caste and some outside. We DO NOT PASS JUDGMENT against any member who has married outside the caste as those persons thought it was the right thing to do at the time. We respect that decision. We value all members including those who have married outside the caste as the intention behind their membership is to help the community in some way. We welcome that.

2. We recognize that marriage is a personal choice. However our 'community building' intention prompts us to suggest to our unmarried members to consider persons within the community if that seems like a good option that is still open for you.

3. We'd like to move forward in our activities from where things currently are. And that means we accept you for who you are and we are glad you are here.

We hope our association is of mutual benefit and I wish you many fruitful moments.

It looks like you are advocating a point of view that will dissolve our community. Anybody who has tried "eradicating jathis" has failed in the past including Mahatma Gandhi. We believe that given current conditions eradicating jathis is not an option open to any caste group in our society. We need to rely on our community for all kinds of things.

In today's context almost every caste group has an association and is keen on promoting the interests of its own members. This forum does not see why our community should be an exception.

Love marriages can take place even within a single caste group. One does not have to eradicate caste to have love marriages.

I'd like for you to recognize that this forum, as a whole does NOT support the idea that caste CAN be eradicated.

I will let this posting stand as it has given me an opportunity to establish what the forum is about and what it is not about.

But any more 'caste/jathi eradication' ideas from you will not find a place here, i.e., I will remove that posting. If you want to advocate that view I am sure you will find plenty of other avenues. We will be sorry to see you go but if you give us no other option we will exercise it.

 

[KRS]

Folks,
This is an interesting article - any comments?

Pranams,
KRS

Hindu groups demand action against inter-religion marriage

Bhopal, April 9 : [COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hindu[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] rightwing organisations here Monday demanded that a Muslim boy who had reportedly run away with a Hindu girl and [COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]married[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] her be arrested and the girl handed over to her parents.

The organisations threatened to launch an agitation if authorities failed to arrest the boy.

Omar, 22, had Thursday reportedly run away with Priyanka, 21, and the two got married after the boy converted to Hinduism.

However, the girl's parents are not prepared to accept the [COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]relationship[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] and have lodged a First Information Report (FIR) charging the boy with kidnapping their daughter.

Describing it as a case of 'religion transformation', the activists of several Hindu outfits including the Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP), Bajrang [COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Dal[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR], Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) swung into action soon after getting the information and protested against the police for being lax in taking action against the boy's [COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]family[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR].

"In Bhopal, Hindu girls are being lured by Muslim boys of and on and this has become a routine. We will not tolerate it anymore," said Bhagwandas Sabnani, former BJP district president.

Meanwhile, the girl is said to have told some of her relatives over phone that she was not kidnapped or lured by anyone but had gone with Omar of her own accord and married him.

She also said that she had not been forced to [COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]convert [/FONT][COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]to [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Islam[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR]. "Instead, my husband (Omar) has adopted Hinduism before marrying me. But my parents and relatives are making it an issue because our relationship is not acceptable to them."

Speaking to a [COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]local [/FONT][COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]news[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] channel from some unknown destination, Priyanka has also accused her family members of taking advantage of their political connections and harassing her in-laws in Bhopal.

"Omar's elder brother Sabir has been detained in a Bhopal police station for the past four days, which is not fair," she said.

Earlier, the activists had surrounded the SP's office and demanded that a case of [COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]religion[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] transformation be registered, instead of kidnapping.

They have also threatened to intensify the agitation if their demand was not met.

Meanwhile, the police have dispatched a team to locate the [COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]couple[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] after registering a case of abduction. </FONT dmVX0="0">
--- IANS

 

[born_again_aiyer_maami]

Dear KRS-ji,
That is a thought-provoking news item.
Allow me to share my thoughts ...
Legally Priyanka has reached the age of majority. She is 21, and she is at liberty to prosecute her life as she pleases. Her parents, extended family, and political factions have no business intruding upon her personal freedom and liberty.
In response to an earlier post, you chose to personalize your argument. Pray allow me to put my position in context.
On this thread I earlier wrote:
"I beg to differ - despite the fact that there was a time when I subscribed to your point of view."
I will explain this statement in three phases - each of which might shed light on the development of my present position.
Phase I: As a young teenager I read 'Memoirs of a Dutiful Daughter' by Simone de Beauvoir. The death of Zaza left a deep impression on my adolescent mind. (For those not familiar with the book: Zaza, Simone's dearest friend, is a devout Catholic. Zaza's parents disapprove of her love for a young man. Zaza dies of a broken heart. The book is autobiographical, and factual.)
Phase II: I have a cousin sister. My aunt died when my cousin was eleven years old. Her father was a good man, but he was an alcoholic. My cousin at 19 or 20 eloped with a Muslim chap of similar age. She converted to Islam and changed her name. Our extended family subsequently hosted a social gathering, gave her gifts (pattu podavai and thirumangalyam) and recognized the union. The husband had two successive accidents, and was badly injured on both occasions. My cousin worked for a living, nursed him through his disabilities, and paid his hefty medical expenses. Neither was well educated, or well-employed. They had a child which died of SIDS. In the interim her father died of cirrhosis. The husband was unfaithful and they eventually divorced. I love my cousin, but she is now estranged from me and the rest of our family. Her life experiences have caused her to lose faith in emotional ties altogether.
Phase III: Six months ago, I had the misfortune to sit through a divorce and custody trial. Through this experience I learnt that the legal system has everything to do with due process and nothing to do with justice. I learnt that domestic violence is perpetrated on men. I learnt that men cannot raise the issue in court, because the mention of domestic violence automatically prejudices the case against the man. I learnt that it is very difficult to adduce legally admissible evidence of domestic violence. And finally I learnt that in a vast majority of cases, unless a woman is an alcoholic/ drug-user/child-molester child custody is awarded to the woman.
In this case the woman was accorded custody. The man was required to pay child-support, but was accorded visitation rights.

These experiences led me to write: At best, these marriages are as good/as bad as the arranged marriages ...

I think parents act based upon what they believe are in the best interests of their child. I readily concede that such belief may be misplaced.

I am aware that marriages today are less a 'social contract', and more a 'legal contract'. Legal contracts are all in a day's work for judges and lawyers. They are paid to adjudicate and advocate - it is a living.
For the parties concerned the trial is a life-changing, heart-rending, gut-wrenching process.
The parents (of the parties) suffer heart-break, and endure the attendant emotional, social and financial costs for years.
Members of this forum are free to label me a 'bleeding-heart liberal filly' turned 'stodgy, right-leaning conservative maami'. My experiences inform my positions. No apologies!

Pranams,
born_again_aiyer_maami

Folks,
This is an interesting article - any comments?

Pranams,
KRS

Hindu groups demand action against inter-religion marriage

Bhopal, April 9 : [COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Hindu[/FONT][/FONT][/color][/color] rightwing organisations here Monday demanded that a Muslim boy who had reportedly run away with a Hindu girl and [COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][COLOR=blue! important][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]married[/FONT][/FONT][/color][/color] her be arrested and the girl handed over to her parents.

The organisations threatened to launch an agitation if authorities failed to arrest the boy.

Omar, 22, had Thursday reportedly run away with Priyanka, 21, and the two got married after the boy converted to Hinduism.

 

[KRS]

Dear Srimathi born_again_aiyer_mami Ji,

I guess you replied in the 'Who are we?' thread. There I 'personalized' because of a response to Chintana Ji.

I am not a 'liberal'. But at one time I was. As the saying goes, 'if you are not a liberal when you are young, you have no heart; and if you are not a conservative when you are old, you have no brain'. I do not look down upon orthodoxy. My only point is that we should apply all relevant cultural/societal/religious principles for the CURRENT well being of folks.

This is why the above story is interesting to me. A Hindu girl marrying a muslim and vice versa is probably happening now and then in modern India. The girl, who is an adult obviously strayed from home. But my question is about the behaviour of the parents. In my opinion, they are not supporting her properly for her to succeed. The parents have an obligation to do that, because they are the elders. Am I mistaken in this?

Pranams,
KRS

 

[GGR]

After reading thro 13 pages of this thread, I am very interested to post my comments, but most of my thoughts have already been posted here, more by born_again_aiyer_mami than anyone else. I cannot say too much about arranged marriage, as mine was not.

All I can say is I have seen arranged marriages crumble and I have seen love-marriages crumble. One cannot label something to be good or bad based on statistics, but one needs to consider both the parties in the coalition of marriage, are they commited, are they loyal and are they ready to compromise. If they are, then their marriage will be a success, if not, somewhere down the line, one person will detest the other, with all the pent-up potential from the start of the marriage.

Nice thread, keep those views flowing !!

-GGR

 

[born_again_aiyer_maami]

Dear KRS-ji,
Here is how I analyze the issue:
In any situation, one human being cannot induce another to do his/her bidding unless there is a power imbalance.
In the old days, people lived in small communities, everybody knew everybody else. It was possible to exert social pressure (as a collective) on an individual. This social pressure was a form of power - because it was impossible for the individual to survive alone, in the face of social ostracism/excommunication. Ideally one hopes that the social group exerted their collective power for the greater good - to hold the marital union together. One also hopes that parents (being part of the social group), and being vested in their children, advised them wisely. On occasion this may have been to the detriment of one/both partners - but the children, if any, had a home, and did not become a social liability.
Today in the metropolitan situation, it is possible to live alone (in anonymity) in the face of ostracism/excommunication. Now, we have vested power in an anonymous judiciary. That judiciary has no vested interest in the survival/dissolution of the marital union (or its happiness!). Its sole concern is that the children do not become a tax-burden.
So we have handed over our (personal) familial authority, to the (anonymous) state. This is exemplified in the above union.
Once Priyanka (or my cousin) invited the Muslim youth into their heart & hearth, the parents and family, who were the 'in-group', were transformed into the 'out-group'. The Muslim youth, at the moment of her acceptance and assent, was transformed into the 'in-group'. Now the parents and family have 'no means' to protect her. She has disarmed them of their power/ability to protect/support her.
How would you protect your daughter from herself?
The only thing they can do, is accept her decision, accept their fate, and hope (fearfully?) that things will turn out well.
We tried to protect my cousin, but we could not ward-off the inevitable ...
The thing I find rather peculiar/objectionable - is drawing the RSS/VHP into a family affair ...

Dear Srimathi born_again_aiyer_mami Ji,
The girl, who is an adult obviously strayed from home. But my question is about the behaviour of the parents. In my opinion, they are not supporting her properly for her to succeed. The parents have an obligation to do that, because they are the elders. Am I mistaken in this?

Pranams,
KRS