Is "Conservativeness" Camouflaged Sexuality?

[CHANDRU1849]

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When society was very conservative, extremely religious and custom oriented, and women were enjoying less freedom, such things were quite common, as such activities were thought to be necessary by earlier generations. Probably, until 1950, almost all smartha brahmin ladies, who were married and home makers, would have been in Madisar. This was almost compulsory. Now, how many married Smartha brahmin ladies of the above category, first of all know, the importance of Madisar, let alone wear.

Changes in the society, economic independence etc. modified the outlook of ladies completely. Ten years ago we could see girls, middle aged women wearing Churidhar, using tuppata. Now how many are using it. Possibly after ten years, women may laugh at some of the practices followed by their counterparts in the earlier generations.

Change are inevitable.


A popular dialogue in K Balachander's controversial film 'ARANGETRAM' comes to my mind:

When reminded the heroine Pramila that pallu was not in order, the reply was 'MARATHU POCHU'. But the character was portrayed differently. This dialogue has nothing to do with the subject discussed.

 

[renuka]

Namaste Renuka,

Honestly I find this topic to be 'judgemental' of someone's intentions from just mere superficial observation. You said that lady professors in India are judging foreign students by their outfits. How different is your topic here from them?

Dear JR,

I fail to see where I am judgmental. Let me explain.

Camouflaged sexuality is not anything bad or good.

Its just a state of mind...in fact the entire existence of human society is based on desire which stems from "sexual" energy.

Sexual energy is not to be confused with the act of sexual intercourse or lust.

Sexual energy is Kundalini...the energy that maintains the Chakras in the body.

If it flows upwards than there are different experiences.

If it stays in the Mooladhara Chakra then it is mainly desire based and the sexual energy gets converted to basic instinct of a self protective kind where another is seen as a threat.

So in some cases this protective mechanism tends to overtly react to external stimuli even before any action potential is recorded from the external stimuli.

Therefore in presence of a male..a female who has this well developed protective mechanisms tends to get jump into action to cover herself fearing the male.

So the final analysis is..Body Consciousness stems from Sexual Awareness and the word Camouflaged is used here to denote the effect of Illusion of the mind into identifying another as a potential sexual offender and we do not even realize that sexual awareness has streaked past our mind..that is the Camouflaged I was talking about.

I hope you understood my explanation.

Its technical but might be misunderstood as "judgmental" so I can understand why you missed my point.

Coming to the lecturers...That is a Holier Than Thou Attitude.

My post is not anyway like this..in fact my post can even be "judged" as "Unholier Than Thou".

 

[JR]

Ah! I see... you are discussing sexuality from a scientific perspective... I did not get that, I thought you were saying they (conservative females) meant to do something wrong... now I see what your saying. Thanks for the explanation.

Sorry about my Q.

 

[prasad1]

Modesty , in its broad sense, represents a mode of moral conduct that is related to humility. A person who behaves modestly refrains from extroverted behavior that is supposed to speak of him- or herself. This expansive view also includes sexual modesty.
The only other appearance of this root is in Proverbs (11:2): “[...] but wisdom is with the unassuming,” that also is understood as humbleness (“who conceal themselves out of their great humility” ; or as referring to those who possess excellent self-discipline in their search for wisdom and who employ strict methodological rules in this quest.

Are we talking of sexuality as if it is modesty. I think there is a difference between the two words.

Modesty is a mode of dress and deportment intended to avoid encouraging sexual attraction in others; actual standards vary widely. In this use, it can be considered inappropriate or immodest to reveal certain parts of the body. A modest person would behave so as to avoid encouraging the sexual attention of others. In some societies, modesty may involve women covering their bodies completely and not talking to men who are not immediate family members; in others, a fairly revealing but one-piece bathing costume is considered modest when other women wear bikinis. In some countries, exposure of the body in breach of community standards of modesty is also considered to be public indecency, and public nudity is generally illegal in most of the world and regarded as indecent exposure.

Human sexuality is the capacity to have erotic experiences and responses. A person's sexual orientation may influence their sexual interest and attraction for another person. Sexuality may be experienced and expressed in a variety of ways, including through thoughts, fantasies, desires, beliefs, attitudes, values, behaviors, practices, roles and relationships, which may manifest by way of biological, physical, emotional, or spiritual aspects.

The lady might be showing modesty by adjusting her appearance, the onlooker may still have erotic experience. So you can not blame the lady.

 

[renuka]

Ah! I see... you are discussing sexuality from a scientific perspective... I did not get that, I thought you were saying they (conservative females) meant to do something wrong... now I see what your saying. Thanks for the explanation.

Sorry about my Q.

Dear JR,

There is no need to apologize about your question.

It was an honest query from your side.

In fact may be I should have explained it in the beginning of my thread itself to clear any doubts.

Its indeed a pleasure to have a meaningful conversation with you becos I do feel we have lots in common and would like to share more with you as time goes on.

Thank you for giving me this opportunity to interact with you.

 

[renuka]

The lady might be showing modesty by adjusting her appearance, the onlooker may still have erotic experience. So you can not blame the lady.

Dear Prasad ji,

You might be right in calling it Modesty as that is what is appears to the outside world.

Its just that I wanted to explore the depth of even that modest behavior..to know the basis of such actions.

So from what I can conclude it still has sexual awareness as the substratum


When I say sexual awareness it does not mean any erotic experience..but rather a feeling of alertness and awareness to the presence of the opposite sex..for a female to be alert to a male..she needs to feel that she is female and the male is her polar opposite and there is some 'sexual awareness" in even actions of modesty.

 

[JR]

Dear JR,

There is no need to apologize about your question.

It was an honest query from your side.

In fact may be I should have explained it in the beginning of my thread itself to clear any doubts.

Its indeed a pleasure to have a meaningful conversation with you becos I do feel we have lots in common and would like to share more with you as time goes on.

Thank you for giving me this opportunity to interact with you.

That's a very sweet expression, Renuka! You made my day (night ). Thank you.

 

[renuka]

That's a very sweet expression, Renuka! You made my day (night ). Thank you.

Dear JR,

Thank you.

Day or Night there is no difference for time stands still when happiness is shared.

 

[biswa]

Though the opening post described the issue from the point of conservative females, I think the premise still holds regarding conservative men. It has been so, so often that some conservative men turn out to be lechers. The stridently anti-gay person turns out to be homosexual. The high road morality church preacher or temple priest turns out to be having affairs with the congregation. In the US, the "family values Republican" engages in acts of debauchery. I think it is basic hypocrisy and defensiveness. These people probably feel guilty about their acts and put out an aggressive front to deflect any criticism.

 

[renuka]

Though the opening post described the issue from the point of conservative females, I think the premise still holds regarding conservative men. It has been so, so often that some conservative men turn out to be lechers. The stridently anti-gay person turns out to be homosexual. The high road morality church preacher or temple priest turns out to be having affairs with the congregation. In the US, the "family values Republican" engages in acts of debauchery. I think it is basic hypocrisy and defensiveness. These people probably feel guilty about their acts and put out an aggressive front to deflect any criticism.

Good point...yes you are welcomed to debate regarding conservative men too.

It will give a wider perspective to the current topic.

I do agree to what you wrote ..in fact I believe to know someone truly we have to know what they dislike or hate. Many a times a dislike is a secret obsession.

Its like this..."tell me what you hate and I will tell you what you love"

 

[krish44]

I have a theory . it is the camouflaged sexuality of conservative ladies that shapes conservative men . the men are forced to behave that way to catch the eye and favour

of conservative ladies, these make men lead double lives , lecherous by instinct and action and conservative by appearance. as pointed out by biswaji.

they are only conforming to newtons law.

 

[renuka]

I have a theory . it is the camouflaged sexuality of conservative ladies that shapes conservative men . the men are forced to behave that way to catch the eye and favour

of conservative ladies, these make men lead double lives , lecherous by instinct and action and conservative by appearance. as pointed out by biswaji.

they are only conforming to newtons law.

Now the discussion is getting interesting.

I have to quote a Taoist theory of Yin and Yang here.

The 2 poles Yin and Yang are complementary and antagonistic.

Yin and Yang attract each other in perfect synchrony to reach a perfect balance of union.

So lets apply that theory here.

Ok the male and female by nature see each other as polar of opposites yet in the "oppositeness " there is magnetic "attraction"

Then this goes one step further where both the male and female modulate their external behaviour to complement each other.

What starts of as antagonism finally becomes amalgamation.

So finally the whole Universe is but an orgasmic orchestra!LOL

 

[krish44]

in terms of modulation of behavour,would conservative ladies try to shed their tag by change of dress and actions making /forcing men to become their true selves

instead of posturing. it will lead to all round good.all can be as they are than masquerading as someone/something else

 

[renuka]

in terms of modulation of behavour,would conservative ladies try to shed their tag by change of dress and actions making /forcing men to become their true selves

instead of posturing. it will lead to all round good.all can be as they are than masquerading as someone/something else

No..they wont shed their tag.

Its their greatest protective mechanism. The same hold's good for a conservative male.

Its like a fort built around one's self.

No one knows what lies beyond the fort..but this is one fort no arrow can pierce through.

Lord Shiva could destroy the Three Cities every so quickly by using arrows..becos He knew what lies behind the fort that protected the three cities.

But here the conservative male himself is not sure what lies behind his own fort and he would have no idea what lies behind the fort of the conservative female.

So both will only live in the periphery happily ever after without knowing the core of themselves or the other.

 

[krish44]

No..they wont shed their tag.

Its their greatest protective mechanism. The same hold's good for a conservative male.

Its like a fort built around one's self.

No one knows what lies beyond the fort..but this is one fort no arrow can pierce through.

Lord Shiva could destroy the Three Cities every so quickly by using arrows..becos He knew what lies behind the fort that protected the three cities.

But here the conservative male himself is not sure what lies behind his own fort and he would have no idea what lies behind the fort of the conservative female.

So both will only live in the periphery happily ever after without knowing the core of themselves or the other.

You know renukaji

Many conservative ladies make their girl child dress and behave differently.They condon the action of their daughters if they fall in love openly and encourage them to take potshots at inlaws.

what they were not able to do ,they make their children do.

some male like me encourage sons to chase skirts for which we neither had the courage nor the enterprise.lol

so many are regretting their conservative status and unable to come out of the mould into which they poured themselves

they continue perhaps to suffer in silence . with more encouragement they might develop courage and change ..

 

[renuka]

You know renukaji

Many conservative ladies make their girl child dress and behave differently.They condon the action of their daughters if they fall in love openly and encourage them to take potshots at inlaws.

what they were not able to do ,they make their children do.

some male like me encourage sons to chase skirts for which we neither had the courage nor the enterprise.lol

so many are regretting their conservative status and unable to come out of the mould into which they poured themselves

they continue perhaps to suffer in silence . with more encouragement they might develop courage and change ..

Dear Krish ji,


I know about females giving unwanted advise to newly weds.

I too had my fair share of good for nothing well wishes(some old ladies known to the family) where they will regurgitate their experiences and tell a newly wed how to not be too nice to inlaws blah blah blah..

they will say "O' I was a fool to be nice blah blah blah"

I never listen to such stories..becos another person's experience does not has to become my experience and why should I take a defensive stand when nothing has happened?

So for me everyone is innocent until proven guilty..this rule holds good for my parents and in laws.

So I wont ruin any relationship with anyone unless the other ruins it for reasons best known to them.

 

[rishikesan]

You have all expressed the feelings of both Men & women of both conservative and liberal. We may take the case of youngsters who are in majority having reached their late Twenties & looking for suitable life partners , & are in the process of settling in life, both in India & mostly in foreign countries. They choose their own partners & the trened is that Parents mostly get convinced of the choice because the son or daughter has chosen & the parents go ahead with action to get the marriage celebrated with their consent & their wishes without questioning much . Since I have the recent case wherein Parents of Iyer girl & my relative Iyengar Boy celebrated with no hassels. All are happy & the couple have left for Then- Nilavu to an Island 2 days back.
Regarding Sexual aspect of bot the the Man & Woman ( they are no more Boys/ Girls ? Mostly they would be discussing Sex privately in the course of getting familiar with each other. I expect that they are quite smart & any sexual short comings would be overcome in course of getting more & more intimate.
More over there is absolutely not much scope even for the girl;s Mother to educate her daughter ? If there are serious problems ( that is exception ) it will come out sooner than later .
So sexual behavior or learning to be closer to have Max. Orgasm is left to both . There is total privacy & lot of time to have full understanding & will be blessed with a child & the Visits of Parents on either side start , to make all happy & prosperous more so because there is no dearth of Finance ?
Rishikesan

 

[krish44]

renukaji
there is no need to be self defensive.

this is universal behaviour of all conservative ladies.

if only they will develop courage to be themselves , they can be far happier.

they can feel freedom, breathe fresh air and make their own choices and exercise their own preferences.

the change can be done bit by bit not overnight to be noticeable.

over a period of time , they can be happier .

will they ever try?

 

[renuka]

You have all expressed the feelings of both Men & women of both conservative and liberal. We may take the case of youngsters who are in majority having reached their late Twenties & looking for suitable life partners , & are in the process of settling in life, both in India & mostly in foreign countries. They choose their own partners & the trened is that Parents mostly get convinced of the choice because the son or daughter has chosen & the parents go ahead with action to get the marriage celebrated with their consent & their wishes without questioning much . Since I have the recent case wherein Parents of Iyer girl & my relative Iyengar Boy celebrated with no hassels. All are happy & the couple have left for Then- Nilavu to an Island 2 days back.
Regarding Sexual aspect of bot the the Man & Woman ( they are no more Boys/ Girls ? Mostly they would be discussing Sex privately in the course of getting familiar with each other. I expect that they are quite smart & any sexual short comings would be overcome in course of getting more & more intimate.
More over there is absolutely not much scope even for the girl;s Mother to educate her daughter ? If there are serious problems ( that is exception ) it will come out sooner than later .
So sexual behavior or learning to be closer to have Max. Orgasm is left to both . There is total privacy & lot of time to have full understanding & will be blessed with a child & the Visits of Parents on either side start , to make all happy & prosperous more so because there is no dearth of Finance ?
Rishikesan

Dear Rishikeshan Ji,

Well written posts..you have covered all topics from the basic instinct right up to cultural instincts and values.

Thank you.

 

[JR]

Conservativeness in our Indian society is given over-emphasis. I hate it when in movies, they show a woman busy doing her daily chores (most likely she will be the maid drawing 'kolam' or sweeping the floor), her sari pleats will be slightly off and she will reveal a 'cleavage' and a 'mama' who is her master will be drooling at it! This is such a blasphemy, ladies such as maids doing hard-labor cannot be expected to watch over slight mishaps as this and it is a pity movies choose such scenes to sensationalize! Such scenes highten one's self-consciousness and taint even an innocent mind with vulgarity.

 

[biswa]

in terms of modulation of behavour,would conservative ladies try to shed their tag by change of dress and actions making /forcing men to become their true selves

instead of posturing. it will lead to all round good.all can be as they are than masquerading as someone/something else

Good one, Krish ji. Hence the existence of the nudist colony.

 

[renuka]

Conservativeness in our Indian society is given over-emphasis. I hate it when in movies, they show a woman busy doing her daily chores (most likely she will be the maid drawing 'kolam' or sweeping the floor), her sari pleats will be slightly off and she will reveal a 'cleavage' and a 'mama' who is her master will be drooling at it! This is such a blasphemy, ladies such as maids doing hard-labor cannot be expected to watch over slight mishaps as this and it is a pity movies choose such scenes to sensationalize! Such scenes highten one's self-consciousness and taint even an innocent mind with vulgarity.

Dear JR,

The mammary glands and its intermammary space has always been close to everyone's heart.

Deep down inside the mammary gland reminds a person of infancy and give a sense of security.

So it is quite normal to see drool of any kind when mammary glands are displayed.

Its just like the Pavlov experiment..where the denervated specimen would drool saliva on hearing the bell which reminded it of food.

Like wise..its a reflex here..Mammary....drool...Mammary...drool.

So I wont be too harsh on males here.

Now the next is one starts to wonder "why when a Maama has a Maami why does he still needs to drool when seeing a maid ?"

The answer is:

1)Familiarity breeds contempt.

2)Frequent visits cause disinterest.

 

[biswa]

Good one. But some of your explanations seem too medical!

I think the conservative maamis have this problem. There is only one thing worse than being noticed. That is not being noticed at all!

 

[renuka]

Good one. But some of your explanations seem too medical!

I agree with you that some of my explanation tends to be a bit too medical at times or may be even all the time!LOL

So how would you like my posts to be? More slang words?LOL

 

[rishikesan]

Dear Dr Renuka, I really thank you for the positive comments from the leading lady Veteran of this Forum. Brahmin women to be married.. & already married have one thing in common , that is Shyness . Is it not a fact that only the Male , whether he is in love or in the process of getting married, or even happen to meet umpteen times in U.S. before marriage will not dare talk Sex ? No woman would allow & the man has to wait till _______ ?
There is no comparison on this aspect of shyness of our generation & what is reality now a days. Do you dare conclude that, if the 2 lovers , waiting to be Married & dates fixed would DARE to have Sex ? I am sure they will not women will resist because she would
think of consequences & the future. The women is dormant, & she has to be prepared for sex , even if it is her hubby of long years .
I am still analysing the aspect of sex as to the knowledge the cou[ple married , to be married ? perhaps there are avenues to learn & discuss between themselves ?
Since the respective parents some how feel helpless & choose the path of least resistance / meaning Let them Enjoy .
The lead for Sex if taken by the female it will not be Natural . will it be ? So the man has to ensure lot of Coxing/ fore-play & what not-- to arouse the feelings, it would be the same anyday, with more clarity of open discussion in their honey moon intimacy ?
Rishikesan