Is Religion Itself Maya?

[renuka]

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I was just wondering if Religion itself is the much mentioned Maya?

I did not want to hijack the Anti India Legislation Thread but from that thread I could make out that many do not want to admit truth and rather play the blame game and white wash lots of facts.


In this thread I am not planning to talk about caste at all.

I would like members to share their opinion if Religion is actually the greatest Delusion in the world..Maya??

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

Situation song: VAZHVE MAAYAM

When the life on earth itself is mAyA, religion has to be also mAyA.

 

[tks]

What is not Maya, what is Maya , Is Maya also Maya?

 

[sarang]

We have no religion - only sidhdhantam and matham. Matham has no maya issue. Sidhdhantam, some not all, may dabble with maya.

There is no maya in my sidhdhantam.

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dr Renu

No, she's the ex-chief minister of UP and the cause of migraine to Delhi.

That's why we have a PM who looks like he's going to cry any moment.

Yay Yem

 

[sarang]

migraine as well as balm, as the occasion demands.

Dr Renu

No, she's the ex-chief minister of UP and the cause of migraine to Delhi.

That's why we have a PM who looks like he's going to cry any moment.

Yay Yem

 

[sangom]

I was just wondering if Religion itself is the much mentioned Maya?

I did not want to hijack the Anti India Legislation Thread but from that thread I could make out that many do not want to admit truth and rather play the blame game and white wash lots of facts.


In this thread I am not planning to talk about caste at all.

I would like members to share their opinion if Religion is actually the greatest Delusion in the world..Maya??

Some time ago, I had occasion to remark that you seemed to have started thinking in the right direction for getting "knowledge about the Self" or ātmajñāna (mind you, this is not brahmānanda - that is different).

Now you seem to have come to a milestone in the correct path—i.e., you have got this doubt whether "religion itself is delusion or māyā? My sincere answer is a resounding YES.

One definite characteristic of all (man-made) religions - because we don't have any proven god-given religion - is that there is a god outside yourself and that god does practically everything which the priesthood says that IT does or will do. And these are (to be) accepted without question. One other example of similar unquestioning trust which the religionists often used to cite was the paternity of anyone which is accepted from one's mother's words, blindly; but today there is genetics coming to help if someone has a doubt in this regard.

This blind, unquestioning belief is what most religions want and those religions do not insist on this just for philosophical debates; they want the believers to shell out their hard-earned money to the establishment called religion so that places of worship and their managers fatten themselves on such exploitation.

If you calmly contemplate, this whole world, nay this universe itself, is māyā and we experience this universe more or less uniformly because the principle of LIFE which makes us living entities, works the same way through very similar apparatuses called physical bodies. If all that we experience, is itself a kind of make-believe or fantasy, then how can religion, god, etc., be the exceptions? No, not possible.

The mystery lies in the feeling of "I" and "mine" vs "you" and "not mine" which, due to reasons yet unknown, automatically arise in the living being. If you, Smt. Renuka, are able to contemplate deep into this then I am sure you will come to realize that religion, gods, etc., just like everything else in this world is essentially unreal but we have to behave as if these are all realities, finish our acting - guided by our inner light - and then the bubble of life bursts and there is only a decaying corpse left. The more you realize, the greater will be your amazement at the inner god which is one and the same in the Rishi, Svapaaka etc.

 

[renuka]

If you calmly contemplate, this whole world, nay this universe itself, is māyā and we experience this universe more or less uniformly because the principle of LIFE which makes us living entities, works the same way through very similar apparatuses called physical bodies. If all that we experience, is itself a kind of make-believe or fantasy, then how can religion, god, etc., be the exceptions? No, not possible.

The mystery lies in the feeling of "I" and "mine" vs "you" and "not mine" which, due to reasons yet unknown, automatically arise in the living being. If you, Smt. Renuka, are able to contemplate deep into this then I am sure you will come to realize that religion, gods, etc., just like everything else in this world is essentially unreal but we have to behave as if these are all realities, finish our acting - guided by our inner light - and then the bubble of life bursts and there is only a decaying corpse left. The more you realize, the greater will be your amazement at the inner god which is one and the same in the Rishi, Svapaaka etc.

Dear Sangom ji,

This is what I was thinking about...that when our very existence itself is cloaked by Maya starting right from the Big Bang..then how come only words of Vedas etc is real?

How can there be even a fraction of "Real" in this apparent Unreal?

If this is true that Vedas /Religion/Matam/Words of Rishis etc is real and it leads to Self Realization that would only prove that Maya does have some exceptions and does not cloud everything from us..so doesn't that itself goes against the function of Maya?

Imagining the Unreal as Real would not make me any different from a person with delusion..the more one reads..the more one senses discrepancy..so finally all we have is our own self to fall back upon... a man can only help himself and no one else can help him realize.

 

[SANDHYAV]

Religion is not maya. confusion from obtaining meaning from very old scriptures is maya. Religion is an institution, which helps the layman and kids differntiate some life practices from 'REAL MAYA' like ghosts, demons, fairies, sami-pudichi adaradhu!!.

 

[auh]

I was just wondering if Religion itself is the much mentioned Maya?

...I would like members to share their opinion if Religion is actually the greatest Delusion in the world..Maya??

I tend to see your doubt itself with some skepticism, as it seems to me, that you want to define the well while sitting inside it.

Maya is a word that belongs to a religion and specific to a philosopy. You cannot take that out separately and use it to paint a meaning to religion.

The above question seems to me that

1) you dont want to believe (or have a doubt about the veracity of) in religion but are able to accept something called maya, which by itself is a term used in religion (to elucidate a philosophy).

2) you are certain that there IS maya (how you arrived at that conclusion, I am unaware) which of course makes religion itself subject to this maya, and by the very fact maya IS NOT!

3) you are uncomfortable with certain aspects of religion and comfortable with certain others, and hence want to pick and choose.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Mam,

I wish to share the following story which I read today:

One night a fisherman went into a garden and cast his net into the lake in order to steal some fish. The owner heard him and surrounded him with his servants. They brought lighted torches and began to search for him. In the meantime, the fisherman smeared his body with ashes and sat under a tree, pretending to be a holyman. The owner and his men searched a great deal but could not find the thief. All they saw was a holyman, covered with ashes, meditating under a tree. The next day, the news spread in the neighbourhood that a great sage was staying in the garden. People gathered there and saluted him with offerings of fruit, flowers and sweets. Many also offered silver and copper coins. 'How strange!' thought the fisherman.'I am not a genuine holyman, and still people show such devotion to me. I shall certainly realise God if I become a true sadhu. There is no doubt about it'. If a mere pretence of religious life can bring such spiritual awakening, you can image the effect of real sadhana. In that state, you will surely realize what is real and what is unreal. God alone is real, and the world is illusory.


With regards

Source: Book titled 'From The Unreal to The Real' - By Swami Bhashyananda

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

Maya it seems is among the most misunderstood concepts. It is almost always given a negative connotation which I think is not correct. Of course it is illusion. That illusion exists because people are supposed to learn the truth from it. I think it is an ingenious way of nature to make you believe in and follow the truth. So it is not something that tries to dupe you in a negative sense. It tempts you and leads you into vices but then makes you realize from your experiences that they not only don't lead to real happiness but inevitably lead you to sorrow and doom.

I think it is how enlightenment happens.

 

[auh]

...That illusion exists because people are supposed to learn the truth from it. I think it is an ingenious way of nature to make you believe in and follow the truth. So it is not something that tries to dupe you in a negative sense. It tempts you and leads you into vices but then makes you realize from your experiences that they not only don't lead to real happiness but inevitably lead you to sorrow and doom. .

Dear Sravna, I think the above is the most convoluted descrption of maya that I have come across so far...

 

[zebra16]

What is not Maya, what is Maya , Is Maya also Maya?

I have been a member of this site since 2008. What is *MAYA* to me is that there have been umpteen number of threads and discussions on this topic without any one even attempting to give a broad-line, leave alone a definition, of what maya or reality or the grey area in between these two entities is.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri auh,

Concisely: Maya deludes you only to enlighten you.

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear Zebra 16

Ref your post # 14. I haven't been around that long, but your post is absolutely precise.

That is what I was trying to get across in my post # 5.

Yay Yem

 

[prasad1]

I agree with Mr. Auh's post#10.

When in a dream there is no concept of "outside-the-dream". But the moment you wake up, you go to a different plane of thought. Of course you do not change your physical location with respect to space and time (if you were sleeping on your bed, you wake up in your bed) but your thought, your consciousness, your awareness, moves to a different plane where you realize that the dream was not real and the waking state is the reality. You, in the woken-up state, understand the triviality of everything in the dream state including your feelings (fears, sorrows, joys).

 

[prasad1]

It is matter of semantics.
Maya: it may be defined as ignorance.
Religion: Religion is a belief system that uses symbols to allow people to explore their spirituality. Religions usually rely on narratives and symbols that are used to offer a meaning to life or to explain things like who the universe was created. In addition most religions have an ethical component that teaches people how they are expected to live. There is a lot of variation within this as can be seen by the number of religions that exist in the world. In fact there is no firm agreement about what constitutes a religion and what does not.Religion is a belief system that uses symbols to allow people to explore their spirituality. Religions usually rely on narratives and symbols that are used to offer a meaning to life or to explain things like who the universe was created. In addition most religions have an ethical component that teaches people how they are expected to live. There is a lot of variation within this as can be seen by the number of religions that exist in the world. In fact there is no firm agreement about what constitutes a religion and what does not.
Let me give you an example:
Physics: The dictionary definition of physics is “the study of matter, energy, and the interaction between them”
So if you are ignorant of energy or confused about energy, you might say it is magic, but that does not mean physics is magic. That person can learn about physics and get over his confusion.

So you are saying that you do not understand Religion, but that does not make religion as maya.
"Maya" is your IGNORANCE. Your ignorance is not a reality(ie permanent) as you can overcome ignorance by acquiring knowledge of the subject.

 

[Nara]

I have been a member of this site since 2008. What is *MAYA* to me is that there have been umpteen number of threads and discussions on this topic without any one even attempting to give a broad-line, leave alone a definition, of what maya or reality or the grey area in between these two entities is.

Narayan, how about you attempting to give one???

 

[sangom]

Mam,

I wish to share the following story which I read today:

One night a fisherman went into a garden and cast his net into the lake in order to steal some fish. The owner heard him and surrounded him with his servants. They brought lighted torches and began to search for him. In the meantime, the fisherman smeared his body with ashes and sat under a tree, pretending to be a holyman. The owner and his men searched a great deal but could not find the thief. All they saw was a holyman, covered with ashes, meditating under a tree. The next day, the news spread in the neighbourhood that a great sage was staying in the garden. People gathered there and saluted him with offerings of fruit, flowers and sweets. Many also offered silver and copper coins. 'How strange!' thought the fisherman.'I am not a genuine holyman, and still people show such devotion to me. I shall certainly realise God if I become a true sadhu. There is no doubt about it'. If a mere pretence of religious life can bring such spiritual awakening, you can image the effect of real sadhana. In that state, you will surely realize what is real and what is unreal. God alone is real, and the world is illusory.


With regards

Source: Book titled 'From The Unreal to The Real' - By Swami Bhashyananda

Dear Shri Balasubramani,

If the fisherman found that people "saluted him with offerings of fruit, flowers and sweets" even though he was a fake holy man, then naturally and by commonsense, that fake holy man must have thought " 'I am not a genuine holyman, and still people show such devotion to me and give such offerings of fruits, flowers and sweets. I shall certainly receive much more such gifts and, may be, money and such other offers if I become a true sadhu. There is no doubt about it."

What is said in the story is an unnatural and contrived twist in order to bring in the pre-concieved moral into the story. It sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Dear Shri Balasubramani,

What is said in the story is an unnatural and contrived twist in order to bring in the pre-concieved moral into the story. It sticks out like a sore thumb.

Sir,

It is a story. How can you expect it to be natural? This was the response expected from you. Thanks.

 

[renuka]

I tend to see your doubt itself with some skepticism, as it seems to me, that you want to define the well while sitting inside it.

Maya is a word that belongs to a religion and specific to a philosopy. You cannot take that out separately and use it to paint a meaning to religion.

The above question seems to me that

1) you dont want to believe (or have a doubt about the veracity of) in religion but are able to accept something called maya, which by itself is a term used in religion (to elucidate a philosophy).

2) you are certain that there IS maya (how you arrived at that conclusion, I am unaware) which of course makes religion itself subject to this maya, and by the very fact maya IS NOT!

3) you are uncomfortable with certain aspects of religion and comfortable with certain others, and hence want to pick and choose.

Dear Auh ji,

Let me explain..I am not denying the existence of a Universal Consciousness.

My thoughts and questions are shaped as I go on exploring..If you had known me since I first joined Forum you would know that my thoughts and questions have changed..

BTW if I want to deny the existence of anything I need to be very sure before I make any judgment or statement.

That is why I am seeking feedback from members here.

Ok let me get very simple..Most revered Swamijis of the past including deified ones went with the theory of the Aryan race as a separate race from the rest of the Non Aryan inhabitants of the Indian Subcontinent and majority of people believed it.

I still remember a very famous Swamiji..I cant remember whom whether it was Swami Vivekananda or Swami Sivananda who once wrote that while travelling in Kashmir he happened to see a young Kashmiri girl in a field and he remarked that this was the Aryan race in the purest form whose complexion was as white as milk with a drop of blood in it.He clearly saw Aryan as a race and not a definition which just meant "Noble one".

Now after scientific advancement with DNA and all..now everyone is singing a different tune.

Ok you see..if these Swamiji's are supposed to be spiritually advanced..how come they did not get direct revelation from God that the Aryan Dravidian theory is some so called White man made up theory?

Why only after DNA studies came into being that this was disproved??

So if those so called spiritually advanced Gurus did not get this right....that only shows that their knowledge is from text books just like anyone of us isnt it?

So what is the difference between us and the so called spiritually advanced?

How am I supposed to believe any religious text is 100% right in that case??... after all it was compiled by humans.

Next..my question about Maya..you see I am not rejecting any theory here..I am being logical and going step by step.

I am not picking and choosing either..I am not unhappy with anything..otherwise I wont spend so much time daily reading up text etc to aid my understanding.

I want to know more and not just accept anything just becos some guy said so and be a Ba Ba Black Sheep and just echo Yes Sir Yes Sir Three Bags full.

I hope you understand that I want to know more and not pick or choose.

I believe in the All or None Phenomenon..that is it either makes sense or it does not.

Hence my question "Is Religion Itself Maya?"

 

[sarang]

We all know dress maketh a man; if one wears a western suit he is worshiped and gets a handshake from a villager. His real worth is not known now; but he change finding the adoration he gets because of his dress and may strive to make his behaviour too more 'respectable'. The villager who showed adoration and courtesy is instrumental in changing the behaviour of the 'dorai'. Of course all such stories are useful only for the sincere and improvement oriented type. Negative souls will only see the manure in a fertile field, and will miss the green trees and flowers.

Recently in a samskrit university, one first ranker was not allowed to collect his degree and seven gold medals, because he refused to wear the convocation gown and wanted to be in traditional dress. The vice chancellor of the university, for his part added that the convocation gown was like the dress worn by kings. The university wanted the gold medalist to dress like a king, but he preferred to be a commoner - perhaps paijama-jibba or panchakatcham-uththiriyam!

What is said in the story is an unnatural and contrived twist in order to bring in the pre-concieved moral into the story. It sticks out like a sore thumb.

 

[renuka]

Negative souls will only see the manure in a fertile field, and will miss the green trees and flowers.

Isn't negativity a perception??

What has the soul got to do with this??

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

Maya it seems is among the most misunderstood concepts. It is almost always given a negative connotation which I think is not correct. Of course it is illusion. That illusion exists because people are supposed to learn the truth from it. I think it is an ingenious way of nature to make you believe in and follow the truth. So it is not something that tries to dupe you in a negative sense. It tempts you and leads you into vices but then makes you realize from your experiences that they not only don't lead to real happiness but inevitably lead you to sorrow and doom.

I think it is how enlightenment happens.

Dear Sravna,

Isn't that like throwing a person in prison for a crime he had not yet committed so that he will learn that in future he should not commit crime?

I guess the only way to escape from the prison would be recite this???

Om Asato Maa Sad-Gamaya |
Tamaso Maa Jyotir-Gamaya |
Mrtyor-Maa Amrtam Gamaya |
Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||