Is the Aam Aadmi Party a revolution? French or American?

[sangom]

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water move is for the poor and not for the others. why should others make fun of it . agreed a graded scheme would ha' ve appealed to more. power discount is equally good. both together have put around 1 k in hands of poor without middlemen. a well directed subsidy
we are a nation with a sizeable number of middlemen who serve everyone the poor and the rich included for a price. it enables many undeserving to get what they want for a price. even God cannot get rid of them

Shri krish44,

From various sources I understand that the water subsidy is available only to those who have registered and meters (not tampered with) for the house. This will exclude all the poorest strata and will benefit only the middle class and upper middle class. The poorest people will continue to be under the mercy of the "Tanker Mafias".

 

[krish44]

Does the AAP have the courage to dispense with Reservation? Would it declare that admissions in Universities, Professional courses and employment in Central and State Govt shall be strictly on merit? Would AAP declare that there shall no longer be any concession based on minority community etc as we are all one and we are all Indians? Would it declare that there shall be no party based on caste, class, color or religion, that there shall no party be with names like Dravida, Vanniar, Muslim League, etc, that any party existing with such names shall change their names else face disqualification? Would it declare that applications for employment or for that matter any form shall not contain a field or item requiring Religion, Caste etc?

Reservation policy may require a revisit. many midcastes specially in tamil nadu are well off and their children are 2nd generation learners performing as good as forward castes[there is hardly 1-2 percent difference in their cut off marks in admissions to engg colleges}. IMO only Mbcs,dalits religeous minorities.tribals,adidravidas require reservation it shoud be nominal say 25-30percent. parties such as AAP should ensure meritocracy in education and employment except for a small percent reservation

 

[krish44]

Shri krish44,

From various sources I understand that the water subsidy is available only to those who have registered and meters (not tampered with) for the house. This will exclude all the poorest strata and will benefit only the middle class and upper middle class. The poorest people will continue to be under the mercy of the "Tanker Mafias".

poor with piped connections have a meter given and installed by jal board. others serviced by tanker mafia are serviced free. the tab is picked by the govt

 

[prasad1]

Shri krish44,

From various sources I understand that the water subsidy is available only to those who have registered and meters (not tampered with) for the house. This will exclude all the poorest strata and will benefit only the middle class and upper middle class. The poorest people will continue to be under the mercy of the "Tanker Mafias".

Why should there be subsidies for rich and middle class residents? Where does the subsidies comes from? Who pays for it?

On Christmas day, Kejriwal had vowed to implement the free water scheme in every household within 24 hours of assuming office. Kejriwal had also transferred the CEO of the Delhi Jal Board Debashree Mukherjee and brought in Vijay Kumar in her place.
However, Kejriwal has been criticised for transferring her for pointing out that free water would cost a huge subsidy to the government. "The CEO of Jal Board was transferred because she pointed out losses the government will suffer," former Delhi chief secretary Umesh Sehgal said.

Senior Bharatiya Janata Party leader Arun Jaitely on Wednesday criticised the Delhi Government’s decision to offer a subsidy to consumers for their water consumption. Even as the AAP-led Delhi Government is riding high on the decision to offer free water — 20 kilolitres per month to those with a metered connection- the BJP leader said subsidy is "short term gains."


"…It [subsidy] leaves a debt for tomorrow. A subsidy may prove counter productive for the more vulnerable sections,” Mr. Jaitely said in a statement issued here.


Explaining why subsidy is a bad idea and a populist measure, Mr. Jaitely said: “Subsidies are an unquantified amount given to unidentifiable section of people. Through subsidies a government does not cut down the rates or the cost. It maintains the existing rates and tariffs. It only uses the tax payers money to subsidise a section. The more you subsidise the more you will have to eventually raise the taxes.”


Subsidy, the BJP leader said leaves a debt for tomorrow and may even prove counter productive for the more vulnerable sections. “Take the illustration of the scheme to subsidise water for those consuming less than 20 kilo litre of water through a metered system. Subsidies make the health of the supply organisations vulnerable. The real challenge is that those outside the water supply system must be connected to it. Laying down pipelines in every locality, installation of taps in every house can only be provided by a healthy board and not a financially vulnerable DJB (Delhi Jal Board).”


The subsidy rolled out by the Delhi Government has “ignored” the weakest section of Delhi, Mr. Jaitely alleged.

 

[krish44]

More than subsidies people want efficiency and transparency in service , fairness in rates , proper accountability when it comes to basic utility services and public transport . People wont mind a gradual hike if the service is efficient . They get angry only when you hike the rates when the service is faulty ,unprofessional and when there is lack of transparency and accountability .

you are articulating the aspirations of middle and well off classes. poor want subsidies and freebies and no hikes of any sort .By the way there is a 10percent hike in water charges from 1st jan for those consuming more than 20k litres

 

[Jaykay767]

to me, reservation, even with all its warts,is an unbridled success, for not only it has opened the doors to millions offolks who would never have thought of higher studies. but raised the bar interms of expectations of the parents of the urban poor and dispossed. today'ssweeper potter latrinecleaner toddytapper all tell their children to eschew theancestral professions and urge them to be doctors lawyers ITs and governmentservants.
QUOTE]

Dear Kunjuppu,

Sorry, I have to disagree strongly here. Reservation can & will never be a success. 100s of Millions have died due to the ill effects of reservation – 100s of millions are in dire poverty in villages with absolutely no infrastructure, hospitals, no jobs, no economic activity, incompetent doctors, bureaucrats, unbridled corruption, non existent roads, potholes, highest accident rate across all the countries, massive struggle for companies to setup business & do business even after they grease the pockets etc... so you are only looking at some latrine cleaner’s son doing well.

What about all the 100s of millions in dire poverty, what about the mothers, fathers, sons& daughters who have lost their near & dear ones due to the terrible effects of reservation ?????

Now, lets look at how India would been if we had not got into this mess of reservation and focused on meritocracy.

1. Far efficient bureaucracy – leading to much lower corruption levels.
2. Ease of doing business would have been much better leading to 100s of millions of Jobs
3. Better Infrastructure & Roads leading to dramatic reduction in accidents.
4. WorldClass Doctors – leading to very low incidents of patients dying due to incompoop doctors.
5. Far efficient PDS – Num of poor would have dramatically come down
6. FamilyPlanning – we would not have made the situation from bad to worst !!. from amere 300+ million during 1940s to clsoe to 1.2++ Bil today with over 700 Mil inpoor/poverty category !! we would have had only 300 to 500 Mil like other countries.

So there wouldbe NO latrine cleaners today because all would have benefited from highly efficiency governance by meritocracy & we would be comparable to the west or Korea or Japan !!!

Just because Tam brams are crying hoarse does NOT mean meritocracy is bad & reservations are good !!!

Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

Dear Kunjuppu - If Michael Shcumacher were in India, our incompetent doctors would have declared him dead on arrival - LOL !!!!!. Luckily he has the best of the best of the best doctors working on him !!! Meritocracy is literally the difference between life & death man !! Cheers,

 

[sangom]

Dear Kunjuppu - If Michael Shcumacher were in India, our incompetent doctors would have declared him dead on arrival - LOL !!!!!. Luckily he has the best of the best of the best doctors working on him !!! Meritocracy is literally the difference between life & death man !! Cheers,

I just don't understand why one person in this whole world should be so important just because he drives some racing cars fastest! Will it not be a better world if all people, rich & poor, got even mediocre medical care?

And supposing this man schumacher (german shoemaker) recovers completely, thanks to all those "best of the best of the best doctors working on him", and manages to drive racing cars at supersonic speeds even, of what use will it be to the common man in the indian street?

 

[Jaykay767]

Dear Sangom - Let me clarify, I am not focused on Michael Schumacher, it just so happened at this time he is injured. I am just point out that when it comes to life & death, meritocracy will be the competitive differentiator !. In India, forget about mediocre healthcare, there is NO healthcare for 100s of millions in Villages. By the time, another 50 Mil get Jobs in India, the population would have grown to 2 Bil with another 700 Mil under dire poverty !!!!. It is a hopeless situation for these people !!!. So only Meritocracy can bring the fastest change to all these people's lives !!! Cheers,

 

[kunjuppu]

I just don't understand why one person in this whole world should be so important just because he drives some racing cars fastest! Will it not be a better world if all people, rich & poor, got even mediocre medical care?

And supposing this man schumacher (german shoemaker) recovers completely, thanks to all those "best of the best of the best doctors working on him", and manages to drive racing cars at supersonic speeds even, of what use will it be to the common man in the indian street?

dear sangom, i have given up long ago trying to deal with folks who make remarks like in #57. i have found indians abroad, are the first to scream for fairness justice empathy rights (not obligations though) merit meritocracy and all such stuff. the minute they go back to india, even for short visits, these revert to belief in caste manu and disdain for the NBs.

yesterday i was at a new years gathering of all tambrams. all men there were gung ho on AAP; though all felt sorry that BJP did not win delhi. all if they had a vote in india, would have voted for modi. all hope BJP will scrap quotas. oh well!! i sat among the ladies and had more fun commenting on latest trends in fashion and also on lazy husbands

 

[Jaykay767]

well, I am sure the person who posted above will surely NOT go to the latrine cleaner's son doctor !!. These are the people who ran away from India in the first place & then will sit Abroad taking the best of the medical care there & then comment to others that reservation is great & put them under the knife of latrine cleaner's son with devastating consequences - LOL !!!!!! I mean words are cheap right, that too in a social media forum - LOL !!!

 

[Jaykay767]

Of course the best of the doctors abroad are either the Whites or Tam Brams or Brams - LOL !! Developed countries place premium on meritocracy & will not tolerate incompetence !!

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom - Let me clarify, I am not focused on Michael Schumacher, it just so happened at this time he is injured. I am just point out that when it comes to life & death, meritocracy will be the competitive differentiator !. In India, forget about mediocre healthcare, there is NO healthcare for 100s of millions in Villages. By the time, another 50 Mil get Jobs in India, the population would have grown to 2 Bil with another 700 Mil under dire poverty !!!!. It is a hopeless situation for these people !!!. So only Meritocracy can bring the fastest change to all these people's lives !!! Cheers,

Dear Shri Jaykay767,

Taking just the scenery of doctors, medical care and meritocracy, I have found very incompetent tamil brahmin doctors some of whom were known by nicknames like "killer", "Kalabhairavan" and so on, as also doctors from the (erstwhile) pulaya caste who have become surgeons of repute (one of them a brain surgeon). As you may know the brahmin doctors belonged to the old era when brahmins ( i.e., meritocrats, as usually understood in the Indian context) whereas the SC/ST doctors/surgeons were the products of the reservation system which is usually viewed as synonymous with the very antithesis of meritocracy.

The film actress Sridevi's mother was operated upon in the wrong side of her brain by that heaven of meritocracy, viz., US of A, as per some magazines.

So, imho, complete meritocracy is beyond human achievement.

 

[kunjuppu]

well, I am sure the person who posted above will surely NOT go to the latrine cleaner's son doctor !!. These are the people who ran away from India in the first place & then will sit Abroad taking the best of the medical care there & then comment to others that reservation is great & put them under the knife of latrine cleaner's son with devastating consequences - LOL !!!!!! I mean words are cheap right, that too in a social media forum - LOL !!!

you are wrong sir. when we go to a specialist, we do not care who his parents are. we care only about his ability. to presume that a latrine cleaner's son/daughter cannot be a top notch medical specialist, i would say, is more a reflection of your prejudices than based on any fairness or logic.

why do you bring the issue of emigration here. that has nothing to do with what we are talking here..which is that quotas is a social engineering tool which has been successful in raising the aspirations of the dispossed.

vaa manikandan is an upcoming author. he is a gounder who like our own nara/sangom, frankly evaluates the attitudes of the gounder community. as a result receiver of a fair no of hate mails. here is one such incident today.

quite an eye opener isn't it. the priviliged want to keep the status quo. that is simply not possible. in other countries like russia or france or china, the priviliged lost their lives. indian transformation has been comparatively peaceful. that much kudos to our democratic systems and bureaucracy. both inherited from the british.

 

[Jaykay767]

Let me clarify again !! I have absolutely nothing against a latrine cleaner's son provided he comes through the meritocracy green channel !!, anyone else including our Tam Brams - management quotas, etc.. who do NOT come via meritocracy is not acceptable. yes, there are cases of medical negligence in USA/developed countries but those are very very few exceptional cases compared to what is happening in developed countries. !!

 

[Jaykay767]

Dear Kunjuppu - if India had followed a path of meritocracy from day 1, everyone would have been well off like the west/japan/korea around 300+ Mil & you would NOT have even thought of going abroad !!!. Most of the people who went/go abroad is because of lack of opportunities in their home country !! Cheers,

 

[Jaykay767]

folks - you can never justify the reservation stuff !!. Pl forget about me being a Tam Bram, my prejudices, that I am against lower castes, indoctrination etc... India is bursting on seams on all sides, millions are dying every day, 100s of millions more are under dire poverty with absolute no hope, millions are raped every day, every crime on earth is happening here. Over Bil people have come in dire poverty & gone, in the last 65 yrs !!. so in every which way you see, reservation is a massive disaster !!

 

[Nara]

....vaa manikandan is an upcoming author. he is a gounder who like our own nara/sangom, frankly evaluates the attitudes of the gounder community. as a result receiver of a fair no of hate mails. here is one such incident today.

thanks for citing this, it is indeed encouraging that young free thinkers are rising in dominant and powerful castes. This, along with increasing incidence of ICR, will surely move us towards a caste-free society.

IMO, reservation system (RS) is the backbone of the social revolution that is taking place in India. RS is the key for upward mobility for millions over millions of people who have been oppressed for generations. RS includes minimum cut off. Those admitted must pass public examinations like everybody else to get a degree. Within this framework, distribution of scarce resources in a progressive way is both efficient and effective and is fundamental to moving our society towards justice.

 

[Jaykay767]

Justice is useless if over 700 Mil are under dire poverty without any food, water, shelter & healthcare !!. Slavery for these people with good food / water will be far better than dying in poverty!! of course those who are dishing out the nonsense of reservation as a key justice, are all sitting abroad & taking the services or meritocratic doctors, bureaucracy, world class cities, infrastructure !!. Better to put the words into action, by going to India & getting the treatment from the latrine cleaner's son !!

 

[prasad1]

I just don't understand why one person in this whole world should be so important just because he drives some racing cars fastest! Will it not be a better world if all people, rich & poor, got even mediocre medical care?

And supposing this man schumacher (german shoemaker) recovers completely, thanks to all those "best of the best of the best doctors working on him", and manages to drive racing cars at supersonic speeds even, of what use will it be to the common man in the indian street?

that too he is retired.

Every life is precious and medical profession and society should make effort to save it.
I think major Indian Medical facility will also do the same thing (may be money will be an issue), but Schumacher is rich too.
It is foolish to compare facility in one country with another, that too to show India in bad light.

 

[prasad1]

Of course the best of the doctors abroad are either the Whites or Tam Brams or Brams - LOL !! Developed countries place premium on meritocracy & will not tolerate incompetence !!

Sir,
You reek of prejudice, I do not know what century you are in obviously it is not 21st century. In country like USA, UK, Australia, Canada, there is predominance of so called "White" doctors. But majority of them together with their PIO colleagues are not racist. They are doing their jobs. I do not know where have you been hiding for last 50 years, Indians can match any body given the right motivation.

 

[kunjuppu]

thanks for citing this, it is indeed encouraging that young free thinkers are rising in dominant and powerful castes. This, along with increasing incidence of ICR, will surely move us towards a caste-free society.

IMO, reservation system (RS) is the backbone of the social revolution that is taking place in India. RS is the key for upward mobility for millions over millions of people who have been oppressed for generations. RS includes minimum cut off. Those admitted must pass public examinations like everybody else to get a degree. Within this framework, distribution of scarce resources in a progressive way is both efficient and effective and is fundamental to moving our society towards justice.

..and here is another side of the caste wars. look at all the heritages these guys claim. Veera Naickers these are. no one claims fame due to hard work. it is all conquests and enslavement. apparently these telugus came to tamil nadu, fleeing the muslim conquests, and conquered the then weak tamils, and ruled over the whole southern country. except kerala.

it has been agreed among modern scholars, that the influence of the naiks is profound in the tamil culture of souther TN. there is a separate genre of literature called 'karisal mann' literature. ki rajanarayan is the agreed doyen of this. though today poomani a dalit, is considered to be at his peak.

great revolutions are now happening in tamil literature of today. there are a presence of a few brahmins, but nothing like what it was in the 1950s through 70s. the stories are refreshing and i myself have about 40 books waiting for me in chennai, to be picked up very soon. enough to keep me occupied for about a year i would say.

i am hoping that epublishing would get popular because it is cumbersome to lug books over 3continents and 2 oceans. and there is a loooong wait between trips. the toronto public library has about 25000 tamil books spread over the various branches, thanks to the interest of our sri lankan cousins. but mostly it is pulp selfhelp religious stuff. and a sprinkling of good literature ofcourse. you cant get all you want, as mick jagger said, long ago.

 

[krish44]

dear sangom, i have given up long ago trying to deal with folks who make remarks like in #57. i have found indians abroad, are the first to scream for fairness justice empathy rights (not obligations though) merit meritocracy and all such stuff. the minute they go back to india, even for short visits, these revert to belief in caste manu and disdain for the NBs.

yesterday i was at a new years gathering of all tambrams. all men there were gung ho on AAP; though all felt sorry that BJP did not win delhi. all if they had a vote in india, would have voted for modi. all hope BJP will scrap quotas. oh well!! i sat among the ladies and had more fun commenting on latest trends in fashion and also on lazy husbands

K. saheb NRIs are learning to cope abroad with western concepts of liberalism and pressures of capitalist society by mouthing empty words regarding gender justice,meritocracy,rights of LGBT and equality etc. but they have little faith in them . naturally when they return to india even for a short trip end up with NB .dalit and minority bashing. do in rome as romans do. I am sure modi would have won hands down but for AAP.Might even do so now if AAP is a flop. social justice can be enforced by AAP and maoists and the like . TBs cannot subscribe to such views. At best it can be a lip service depending on where you are. I personally believe most midcastes do not need resrrvation in tamil nadu they are affluent,their kids are second generation learners and perform as well in school education to need quota for education or employment. only totally marginalised like dalitss,adidravida or religeous minorities might require.That too to an extent of about 30 percent of the total . Reservation for castes requires a revisit.

 

[krish44]

Why should there be subsidies for rich and middle class residents? Where does the subsidies comes from? Who pays for it?

On Christmas day, Kejriwal had vowed to implement the free water scheme in every household within 24 hours of assuming office. Kejriwal had also transferred the CEO of the Delhi Jal Board Debashree Mukherjee and brought in Vijay Kumar in her place.
However, Kejriwal has been criticised for transferring her for pointing out that free water would cost a huge subsidy to the government. "The CEO of Jal Board was transferred because she pointed out losses the government will suffer," former Delhi chief secretary Umesh Sehgal said.

Senior Bharatiya Janata Party leader Arun Jaitely on Wednesday criticised the Delhi Government’s decision to offer a subsidy to consumers for their water consumption. Even as the AAP-led Delhi Government is riding high on the decision to offer free water — 20 kilolitres per month to those with a metered connection- the BJP leader said subsidy is "short term

"…It [subsidy] leaves a debt for tomorrow. A subsidy may prove counter productive for the more vulnerable sections,” Mr. Jaitely said in a statement issued here.


Explaining why subsidy is a bad idea and a populist measure, Mr. Jaitely said: “Subsidies are an unquantified amount given to unidentifiable section of people. Through subsidies a government does not cut down the rates or the cost. It maintains the existing rates and tariffs. It only uses the tax payers money to subsidise a section. The more you subsidise the more you will have to eventually rai

Subsidy, the BJP leader said leaves a debt for tomorrow and may even prove counter productive for the more vulnerable sections. “Take the illustration of the scheme to subsidise water for those consuming less than 20 kilo litre of water through a metered system. Subsidies make the health of the supply organisations vulnerable. The real challenge is that those outside the water supply system must be connected to it. Laying down pipelines in every locality, installation of taps in every house can only be provided by a healthy board and not a financially vulnerable DJB (Delhi Jal Board).”


The subsidy rolled out by the Delhi Government has “ignored” the weakest section of Delhi, Mr. Jaitely alleged.

Subsidy of 20kl for the poor with 10 percent rise for others is good economics. Laying of pipes or installation of taps may not be hurt. BJP is realising who their real enemies are -AAP not congress

 

[krish44]

thanks for citing this, it is indeed encouraging that young free thinkers are rising in dominant and powerful castes. This, along with increasing incidence of ICR, will surely move us towards a caste-free society.

IMO, reservation system (RS) is the backbone of the social revolution that is taking place in India. RS is the key for upward mobility for millions over millions of people who have been oppressed for generations. RS includes minimum cut off. Those admitted must pass public examinations like everybody else to get a degree. Within this framework, distribution of scarce resources in a progressive way is both efficient and effective and is fundamental to moving our society towards justice.

while I appreciate the worth of reservation in ensuring social justice, I am against the same for powerful midcastes who are affluent and their kids perform as well in school as meritorius kids. Resevation policy requires a revisit .Except totally marginlised lake dalts ,adidravida ,mbcs ,or STs It should be with drawn for others as it has served its purpose.