ISKCON Bangalore: How do Tamil Brahmins feel?

[indianassault]

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absolutely...the place where I visited , a church stood there before and this temple has been built. raises suspicions. ashwin_ash can answer this better, if he was here..

 

[renuka]

Dear Sri Dinesh and Renukaji,

Both of you have mentioned in your posts that you do not subscribe to ISCKON. Can you explain what is the ideology that ISCKON stands for or propagates? I want to know your perception of the organization and its ideology. I can get what they want to tell about themselves by googling. That is not the requirement of me. Will you both tell me? Thanks.

Dear Vaagmi ji,

Sorry for very late reply becos I only saw this post today..

Well I feel ISCKON is some sort of extremism and highly dualistic and totally anti advaita.

The favorite words in any ISCKON book is Demi God and Mayavadin.

They tend to only focus on bhakti being the only means to salvation and feel advaita or jnaana marg is dry and heartless.

Actually there are also like Vaishnavas(Iyengarism)!LOL but Vaishnavas who hold Lord Vishnu as Supreme do not go around brain washing others like ISCKONites too.

So that way a Vaishnavas is less fanatical than an ISCOKONite.

I like freedom in prayer(not that I pray anymore) but I like the freedom to swing from tree to tree in my understanding of God and religion.

The monkey in me loves freedom..the monkey in me can not be restrained..so ISCKON is not for me..becos ISCKON puts you in a cage.

But I have donated to their Akshaya Patra project..thats fine becos its for kids to get a mid day meal.

But whatever said and done..ISCKON does things with style and is well organized.

 

[sarang]

In west many abandoned churches were converted to temples, one in birmingham UK. In scandinavian countries some unused churches are converted to shopping malls. I believe ISKCON operated from a church in moscow; now they have built a new temple as the church premises was taken back.

absolutely...the place where I visited , a church stood there before and this temple has been built. raises suspicions. ashwin_ash can answer this better, if he was here..

 

[krish44]

People I came in contact with in bangalore were talking highly of ISKCONs Akshyapatra project for feeding school children

such mass production of food and distributing it for those who need it is a good initiative.

their temples in marble though immaculately clean and well maintained does not give a feel of place of worship. it looks like a commercial enterprise the way they

sell their books and pictures.even indian followers of ISKCON there appear to be people who have spent a lot of time abroad talking in strange english accent. one

feels a bit out of place.

I can appreciate it as a tourist place and cannot reconcile to it as a place of worship.

 

[renuka]

their temples in marble though immaculately clean and well maintained does not give a feel of place of worship. it looks like a commercial enterprise the way they

.

???????

I dont get it..you would like a place of worship to be not clean?

 

[mkrishna100]

I can appreciate it as a tourist place and cannot reconcile to it as a place of worship.

In Bangalore it is designed and run as a tourist place like a Krishna Disney Land

their temples in marble though immaculately clean and well maintained does not give a feel of place of worship. it looks like a commercial enterprise the way theysell their books and pictures

Yes True .Their Temples are neat and clean and they are a run as a commercial enterprise only .

 

[sangom]

I have a tragic case of Iskconism in my larger family circle. One young man, who had a very high-paying job, married and after getting a son, suddenly got attracted to iskcon. As many people may know, iskcon is the brainchild of Bhaktivedanta, a Bengali, Gaudeeya vaishnavite. For them Krishna, and perhaps, even as important as krishna, Radha are the twin supreme godheads. There are no other godheads and all the rest of the larger hindu pantheon are either demigods or demons!

This young man was so keen on putting his (only) child in the iskcon school/nursery, that his wife ultimately went away with the child and now divorce proceedings are going on. The young man has become an iskcon sanyasi, but he is not ready even to look after his bedridden old mother (father died of mental shock after getting to know that his son was going down the iskcon drain!).

The gaudeeya is a branch spun out of vaishnava schizm. The Brahmavaivartha Purana is their most sacred scripture. It says that Radha along with krishna, her lover, is the Supreme godhead in the entire universe and krishna created vishnu, brahma and Siva. Curiously, Ganesha, son of Shiva and Parvathy gets one full canto of this purana, called Ganesha Khanda. Anyway, as some people firmly believe, Vyasa Maharshi himself composed/wrote this purana also, in Banga Desa, in order to educate the devout people (throughout bharatavarsha) in the correct moral ways of life!

Jayadeva's Ashtapadee describes this Radha-krishna relationship, which includes oral sex as also a scene in which Radha places her foot on krishna's head as part of their love-play. iskconites treasure all these stuff as the sure-shot way to final liberation. During Jayadeva's times it was more a tantric cult with unlimited and free-for-all sex as a method of enlightenment (and Osho caught upon this idea and propagated it, successfully.). The ruler of Kalinga proscribed Jayadeva and his work from his kingdom, because he felt Jayadeva was a threat to public morality.

But this kind of Radhe-krishna worship caught on still further north in Bengal, Brindavan, Mathura, etc., areas. The present Brindavan with its krishna, Radha temples and many widows, etc., is only a sad reminder of the erstwhile Radhe-krishna cult and widows trying to emulate the supreme Radha. In Bengal, this bhakti-madness went to the very extreme of devout men observing menstruation (of course, falsely) and the untouchability connected with it etc., in the hope that they had become one with Radha; thanks to the British, this nonsense was exterminated with an iron hand, but some isolated fringe-groups within the very lowest castes, who fled the British territory then, are reportedly continuing this madness even now.

 

[renuka]

Jayadeva's Ashtapadee describes this Radha-krishna relationship, which includes oral sex .

Dear Sangom ji,

I think you had written about this before and the Sanskrit word used for the alleged act is Mukharati.

Is Mukharati meaning only oral intercourse?

becos the same word Mukharati also appears in Shiva Mahimnah Stotram which as in Mukharayati meaning to speak resonantly.


After all Mukh means mouth and Rati means an attraction to it..so how does it ever mean a sexual act? It should poetically means something about "speaking" I guess.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[sarang]

As usual unusual experiences are strung to bad mouth an organization and radha-krishna bhakti culture which extends beyond ISKCON. That does not diminish the merit and existence and expansion of such institutions and paths.

I have a tragic case of Iskconism in my larger family circle. One young man, who had a very high-paying job, married and after getting a son, suddenly got attracted to iskcon. As many people may know, iskcon is the brainchild of Bhaktivedanta, a Bengali, Gaudeeya vaishnavite. For them Krishna, and perhaps, even as important as krishna, Radha are the twin supreme godheads. There are no other godheads and all the rest of the larger hindu pantheon are either demigods or demons!

This young man was so keen on putting his (only) child in the iskcon school/nursery, that his wife ultimately went away with the child and now divorce proceedings are going on. The young man has become an iskcon sanyasi, but he is not ready even to look after his bedridden old mother (father died of mental shock after getting to know that his son was going down the iskcon drain!).

The gaudeeya is a branch spun out of vaishnava schizm. The Brahmavaivartha Purana is their most sacred scripture. It says that Radha along with krishna, her lover, is the Supreme godhead in the entire universe and krishna created vishnu, brahma and Siva. Curiously, Ganesha, son of Shiva and Parvathy gets one full canto of this purana, called Ganesha Khanda. Anyway, as some people firmly believe, Vyasa Maharshi himself composed/wrote this purana also, in Banga Desa, in order to educate the devout people (throughout bharatavarsha) in the correct moral ways of life!

Jayadeva's Ashtapadee describes this Radha-krishna relationship, which includes oral sex as also a scene in which Radha places her foot on krishna's head as part of their love-play. iskconites treasure all these stuff as the sure-shot way to final liberation. During Jayadeva's times it was more a tantric cult with unlimited and free-for-all sex as a method of enlightenment (and Osho caught upon this idea and propagated it, successfully.). The ruler of Kalinga proscribed Jayadeva and his work from his kingdom, because he felt Jayadeva was a threat to public morality.

But this kind of Radhe-krishna worship caught on still further north in Bengal, Brindavan, Mathura, etc., areas. The present Brindavan with its krishna, Radha temples and many widows, etc., is only a sad reminder of the erstwhile Radhe-krishna cult and widows trying to emulate the supreme Radha. In Bengal, this bhakti-madness went to the very extreme of devout men observing menstruation (of course, falsely) and the untouchability connected with it etc., in the hope that they had become one with Radha; thanks to the British, this nonsense was exterminated with an iron hand, but some isolated fringe-groups within the very lowest castes, who fled the British territory then, are reportedly continuing this madness even now.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom ji,

I think you had written about this before and the Sanskrit word used for the alleged act is Mukharati.

Is Mukharati meaning only oral intercourse?

becos the same word Mukharati also appears in Shiva Mahimnah Stotram which as in Mukharayati meaning to speak resonantly.


After all Mukh means mouth and Rati means an attraction to it..so how does it ever mean a sexual act? It should poetically means something about "speaking" I guess.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

"mukhara" means talkative, loquacious, garrulous, noisy, making any continuous or tedious sound (said of birds and bees and tinkling ornaments); sounding, resonant or resounding with. "mukharaya" originates from this and means make noisy or resonant. These two words are not connected AFAIK with mukharati, although the first three letters are the same.

Mukharati may mean "speaking" as you derive, but many sources I have read do not think so. The dictionary (Monier Williams) does not give this word.

If you have more info. pl. share.

 

[sangom]

As usual unusual experiences are strung to bad mouth an organization and radha-krishna bhakti culture which extends beyond ISKCON. That does not diminish the merit and existence and expansion of such institutions and paths.

The above was neither unusual nor is iskcon an organization with a clean record. Something is rotten in that organization, that in the US many cases of unnatural sex, financial jugglery, cruelty to children, etc., have already come to light. The entire gaudeeya cult itself is a very bad way of religion. The idea of Radha (who is the aunt of krishna) and krishna in embrace of love itself is a disgusting idea. Above all, do you agree that Krishna created Vishnu?

So, please be little more mentally balanced and don't be overcome with the zeal to put down somebody because you don't like that person.

 

[mkrishna100]

Jayadeva's Ashtapadee describes this Radha-krishna relationship, which includes oral sex as also a scene in which Radha places her foot on krishna's head as part of their love-play. iskconites treasure all these stuff as the sure-shot way to final liberation. During Jayadeva's times it was more a tantric cult with unlimited and free-for-all sex as a method of enlightenment (and Osho caught upon this idea and propagated it, successfully.). The ruler of Kalinga proscribed Jayadeva and his work from his kingdom, because he felt Jayadeva was a threat to public morality.

In Bengal, this bhakti-madness went to the very extreme of devout men observing menstruation (of course, falsely) and the untouchability connected with it etc., in the hope that they had become one with Radha; thanks to the British, this nonsense was exterminated with an iron hand, but some isolated fringe-groups within the very lowest castes, who fled the British territory then, are reportedly continuing this madness even now.

The entire gaudeeya cult itself is a very bad way of religion. The idea of Radha (who is the aunt of krishna) and krishna in embrace of love itself is a disgusting idea. Above all, do you agree that Krishna created Vishnu?

 

[CHANDRU1849]

The idea of ISKCON, it seems, to change the very fundamental structure of Hinduism from polytheism to monotheism, which may lead to intolerance, suppression of women, targeting weak, fanatical thinking, high level of superstition, restriction in freedom of expression etc.

Though the two major Abrahamic Religions are also more or less having monothestic approach, the messiahs are preaching peace, love, oneness etc. at least as per their Holy Books.

However, in the case of Krishna, it is totally different. Stress is laid on war and romance and even the holy book (it is said so) contains verses narrated at the time of a war.

ISKCON may survive in India with large following by giving importance to romance (!!!!) in the name of real bhakthi, but its survival is questionable in the Science savy West and fairly non-controversial / organized but aggressive Muslim countries if it is not disciplined in its approach.

It is surprising to note from Sangom Sir that Radha is the aunt of Krishna. If it is true, did Krishna marry his aunt? Is it permissible in the present day Hindu Religion? However, Iyers are so ecstatic in performing Radha Kalyanam, whenever occasion arises.

Now, a time has come for Hindu believers to have constant debate of Hindu works at National as well as State level, and shun those works which are not in conformity to modern thinking. This will clean the Hindu Religion and pave way for its spread.

 

[sarang]

Every organization whether religious or secular has some bad apples; vatican must be dismantled and pope dethroned if one were to follow mud throwers. If some mlas or mps see videos inside the assembly or a president allows an office assistant to indulge in private acts, does not lead to the conclusion that all these institutions deserve dissolution; purification yes. There are laws and writs to take care of such excesses or patently unlawful acts.

Amazing to draw universal negative conclusions from personal experiences, told or revealed by relatives, friends and acquaintances and sympathetic thinkers; sanatana dharma-bad, hindus-bad, tamil brahmins-bad, scriptures-bad, india-bad and so on.

Where is the question of personal like or dislike? For mental balance one must not accuse left and right a whole civilization.

What was banned by the british?

thanks to the British, this nonsense was exterminated with an iron hand,

The above was neither unusual nor is iskcon an organization with a clean record. Something is rotten in that organization, that in the US many cases of unnatural sex, financial jugglery, cruelty to children, etc., have already come to light. The entire gaudeeya cult itself is a very bad way of religion. The idea of Radha (who is the aunt of krishna) and krishna in embrace of love itself is a disgusting idea. Above all, do you agree that Krishna created Vishnu?

So, please be little more mentally balanced and don't be overcome with the zeal to put down somebody because you don't like that person.

 

[krish44]

???????

I dont get it..you would like a place of worship to be not clean?

have you seen a very clean temple in india meeting the standards of ISKCONor Birla group, both using white marble stones .some jain temples of gujarat also belong to this category

It is not issue of my choice.

I only remarked that I have not come across many belonging to this category.

most of us go to well known temples which are centuries old and renovated which are visited by thousands of people of various walks of life .

in view of very large number of footfalls, cleanliness goes for a toss.

in ISKON the visitors are fewer in numbers and hence they are able to maintain a high degree of cleanliness. the temple is patronised mostly by higher classes.

 

[sarang]

have you seen a very clean temple in india meeting the standards of ISKCONor Birla group, both using white marble stones .some jain temples of gujarat also belong to this category

Renovation of the srirangam temple is on now. The committee has taken the decision to remove marble and other types of stones used over a period and restore old/traditional granite slabs during renovation.

 

[indianassault]

The Ayyappan temple near Trichy court complex is also frequented by lots of people, but it remains the same now as 20 years ago. Noone speaks onc you enter the temple Srirangam temple also IMO is clean compared to other temples.

 

[prasad1]

The Ayyappan temple near Trichy court complex is also frequented by lots of people, but it remains the same now as 20 years ago. Noone speaks onc you enter the temple Srirangam temple also IMO is clean compared to other temples.

I have not seen a Hindu temple that is not clean. The approach and the access roads are filthy, but the temple itself is clean. The birla Mandir or Iskcon temple is better maintained as they have more money. Every Balaji temple is clean for the same reason. Money Talks.

People and children in particular do talk, but that is our culture.

We have a lot of dilapidated Temple, particularly Shiva Temples. We should try to restore them. My wife's family renovated and supports a temple in their ancestral place. It is Shiva Temple, and it is now thriving. Fortunately the town is expanding in that direction, and new devotees are frequenting the temple.

 

[renuka]

"mukhara" means talkative, loquacious, garrulous, noisy, making any continuous or tedious sound (said of birds and bees and tinkling ornaments); sounding, resonant or resounding with. "mukharaya" originates from this and means make noisy or resonant. These two words are not connected AFAIK with mukharati, although the first three letters are the same.

Mukharati may mean "speaking" as you derive, but many sources I have read do not think so. The dictionary (Monier Williams) does not give this word.

If you have more info. pl. share.

Dear Sangom ji,

Vaman Apte Dictionary has given the meaning of Mukhrata as Garrulous.

It is also seen in some Shiva Mantras as meaning garrulous for example as below:

Mantra-VI

Sanskrit wording:English wording:

Dharoovam Kashchit sarvam sakalamparastavdhoooravmidam paro Dhroyayadhroyae jagti gadti vayastvishae, samasteapatesamin purmadhan Tavarsamit ev, satuvan givihami tavam na khalo nanoo Dharishta mukhrata.​

O Destroyer of Pura, some say that the whole universe is eternal, while others say that all is transitory. Yet others maintain that all these are eternal and non-eternal–having different characteristics. Bewildered, as it were, by them I do not feel ashamed to praise Thee. Indeed this garrulity indicates my audacity.​

In fact when I searched online...Mukharati is also a surname of some North Indians.