Iyer's Corner

[natkaushik]

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The Vanishing Iyers
Sometime back, I saw in Sankara TV, the Inauguration of a Vedic Patasala at the ancestral home
of Paramacharya by Swami Jayandra Saraswati,who was received with due devotion by the local
Iyers.His Holiness must have been aware that none of the children of the congregation present
would be sent to the patasala.It will be only the refuge of Children of poor Bhramins hoping to
better their lot.
Day by day, the study of Samskritham, is receiving less and less attention from Iyers. Gone are
the days when the Iyers were scholars of Tamil and sanskrit,equaly facile with both ,in addition to
English. Nowadays ,it is only the sound of American English, which rules the air.Fortunately,
study of Sanskrit is well encouraged in western countries, and will survive even if it vanishes from
iyer community.
It is tragic to see that sanskrit is being written in the Tamil script with its attendent drawbacks.
The Iyers used to write sanskrit in Grantha Script till 60 years back. They wrote treatises on
Dharmasastras,upanishads in sanskrit using Grantha.Today Grantha has all but disappeared.
While hundreds of practically unused scripts have their Unicode, Grantha is not coded.No Iyer is
even aware of it and if he is,he has no interest in reviving the script. The only grantha font has
been coded by a foreigner.
In short, the Tamil Iyer has completely kicked away the his moorings and become a rootless
person.

 

[renuka]

The Vanishing Iyers
Sometime back, I saw in Sankara TV, the Inauguration of a Vedic Patasala at the ancestral home
of Paramacharya by Swami Jayandra Saraswati,who was received with due devotion by the local
Iyers.His Holiness must have been aware that none of the children of the congregation present
would be sent to the patasala.It will be only the refuge of Children of poor Bhramins hoping to
better their lot.
Day by day, the study of Samskritham, is receiving less and less attention from Iyers. Gone are
the days when the Iyers were scholars of Tamil and sanskrit,equaly facile with both ,in addition to
English. Nowadays ,it is only the sound of American English, which rules the air.Fortunately,
study of Sanskrit is well encouraged in western countries, and will survive even if it vanishes from
iyer community.
It is tragic to see that sanskrit is being written in the Tamil script with its attendent drawbacks.
The Iyers used to write sanskrit in Grantha Script till 60 years back. They wrote treatises on
Dharmasastras,upanishads in sanskrit using Grantha.Today Grantha has all but disappeared.
While hundreds of practically unused scripts have their Unicode, Grantha is not coded.No Iyer is
even aware of it and if he is,he has no interest in reviving the script. The only grantha font has
been coded by a foreigner.
In short, the Tamil Iyer has completely kicked away the his moorings and become a rootless
person.

Dear Sir,

Instead of feeling sad why don't you do something to revive Sanskrit and Grantha Lipi?

Why don't you start to focus on the practical aspect of Sanskrit as in conversation like how Samskrita Bharati does?

Once a language is spoken it is easy to grasp the grammar and one does not need to sit down cracking one's head to understand the Asthadhyayi.

So start using simple words in conversations at home and you can revive the usage of Sanskrit eventually at least within your family circle and this will eventually become a habit.

Grantha Lipi books are hard to find and very few and Devanagari script is actually much easier to read and to write.

Grantha Lipi writing does not involve much lifting up of the "pen"...so I guess it must have flourished at the times where inscriptions must have been written on stone or wood to have a continuous flow of alphabets.

I feel we should not blame anyone in the Glanir(decline) of the study of Sanskrit cos each person has different interest in life and if a person wants to study it he should go ahead and study it without the need to lament that others are not studying it.

 

[natkaushik]

Vanishing iyers

Thank you for taking time to post your response. The fact that only you bothered to respond among the 50 odd viewers (itself a small number) shows that it is a herculean task to bring together a group of highly individualistic iyers. Just for curiosity I give here the tamil-grantha version of a sloka.

This will facilitate chanting slokas accurately. This belongs to us, and not naagari lipi.

 

[P.J.]

The Vanishing Iyers
Sometime back, I saw in Sankara TV, the Inauguration of a Vedic Patasala at the ancestral home
of Paramacharya by Swami Jayandra Saraswati,who was received with due devotion by the local
Iyers.His Holiness must have been aware that none of the children of the congregation present
would be sent to the patasala.It will be only the refuge of Children of poor Bhramins hoping to
better their lot.
Day by day, the study of Samskritham, is receiving less and less attention from Iyers. Gone are
the days when the Iyers were scholars of Tamil and sanskrit,equaly facile with both ,in addition to
English. Nowadays ,it is only the sound of American English, which rules the air.Fortunately,
study of Sanskrit is well encouraged in western countries, and will survive even if it vanishes from
iyer community.
It is tragic to see that sanskrit is being written in the Tamil script with its attendent drawbacks.
The Iyers used to write sanskrit in Grantha Script till 60 years back. They wrote treatises on
Dharmasastras,upanishads in sanskrit using Grantha.Today Grantha has all but disappeared.
While hundreds of practically unused scripts have their Unicode, Grantha is not coded.No Iyer is
even aware of it and if he is,he has no interest in reviving the script. The only grantha font has
been coded by a foreigner.
In short, the Tamil Iyer has completely kicked away the his moorings and become a rootless
person.

Some threads like yours are not worth replying; People just post without actually doing nothing!! What did you do ? did you send your children or grand children to these Veda Pada Salas?

Like renukaji said , are you conversing in Sanskrit at your home with your wife and children or relatives?

You are like a Atta Kathi...

 

[Brahmanyan]

The Vanishing Iyers
Sometime back, I saw in Sankara TV, the Inauguration of a Vedic Patasala at the ancestral home
of Paramacharya by Swami Jayandra Saraswati,who was received with due devotion by the local
Iyers.His Holiness must have been aware that none of the children of the congregation present
would be sent to the patasala.It will be only the refuge of Children of poor Bhramins hoping to
better their lot.
Day by day, the study of Samskritham, is receiving less and less attention from Iyers. Gone are
the days when the Iyers were scholars of Tamil and sanskrit,equaly facile with both ,in addition to
English. Nowadays ,it is only the sound of American English, which rules the air.Fortunately,
study of Sanskrit is well encouraged in western countries, and will survive even if it vanishes from
iyer community.
It is tragic to see that sanskrit is being written in the Tamil script with its attendent drawbacks.
The Iyers used to write sanskrit in Grantha Script till 60 years back. They wrote treatises on
Dharmasastras,upanishads in sanskrit using Grantha.Today Grantha has all but disappeared.
While hundreds of practically unused scripts have their Unicode, Grantha is not coded.No Iyer is
even aware of it and if he is,he has no interest in reviving the script. The only grantha font has
been coded by a foreigner.
In short, the Tamil Iyer has completely kicked away the his moorings and become a rootless
person.

I agree with the points raised in this post, but we should ponder over the reason and ask the question "why this should happen?". The answer is obvious and simple. In the present day world, Study of Sanskrit alone has no economic value for the student to earn his livelihood. Iyers alone are not responsible for this decadence of Sanskrit studies. In the previous century after the demise of the Hindu kingdoms, the merchant communities especially Nagarathaar and Mudaliars took over the responsibility of running Veda Patasalas in South India. British Government helped in keeping the teaching of Sanskrit in their educational system. When I was young our Municipal School used to teach Sanskrit language, where boys and girls of all communities took the subject for study. It continued in Colleges also. Only after independence we lost this facility slowly due to lack of interest in the Study of Sanskrit.

Well, In western Countries and Americas Sanskrit is taught as a Language in the Universities and academies. In our country also Universities and Academies offer facilities to learn Sanskrit. There are some good Veda Patasalas run by trusts which offer modern education apart from Vedic studies. They do offer stipends to the students who come out successfully till they get good placements in jobs. But these institutions are few.

These are Social changes that are bound to happen,in the changing world, we cannot do anything about them.

 

[sarang]

We have lost a lot in the past century. Two statements made by BJP leaders have not reached the discerning public. In his address to the students, Modi said "we need modernization without westernization'; and rajnath singh 'english is not bad, but anglicization is to be avoided'. As usual, the media studiously refuse to quote full sentences, and give intentional twists to divert and score 'secular' points.

Only purohits perhaps know grantha as many prayogam books are in grantha script. There are thousands of printed grantha books, and a large number of unpublished manuscripts in grantha script. Anyway technology is coming to our rescue; indian government has recommended a standard for unicode grantha; this will facilitate digitising, transliterating and preserving grantha books. It is claimed that srilanka, thailand and myanmar grantha is used.

 

[sarang]

Just for information: Deccan Education Society, started by Tilak and three others, runs several colleges and schools,

"Like Ovi, 700 other students at the Nyayamurti Ranade Balak Mandir, a kindergarten based in Shaniwar Peth, Pune, begin their day with Sanskrit — a compulsory module across playgroup, junior and senior KG classes.

Run by the Deccan Education Society (DES), the compulsory spoken Sanskrit module encompasses storytelling, recitation, poetry and prayers, and students are taught to greet each other in Sanskrit.

The reason for this, say school authorities, is not only to preserve Sanskrit but also to improve students’ speech and pronunciation skills at an early age. School principal Varsha Joshi, said, “The idea was conceived as a collective decision of the teaching staff and management in order to ensure that students learn more effectively and that their linguistic skills get honed in their formative years.

The syllabi have been designed keeping the developmental, intellectual and linguistic capacities of the students in mind.” Joshi added that the curriculum at the first level of playgroup entails mere introduction to some Sanskrit greetings as the students are in the age group of two to five years.

In the next level of junior class, the students are gradually made to deal with alphabets, words, numbers and days of the week and so on followed by the senior level, where children actually learn prayers, ‘stotras’ or hymns and are made to engage in fundamental dialogues, she said.

Keeping the tongue free of twisters with preschool Sanskrit, News - Latest - Pune Mirror,Pune Mirror

These are Social changes that are bound to happen,in the changing world, we cannot do anything about them.

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Ref.: OP

You are concerned about "Iyer's corner". I am concerned that Iyers are cornered. Neither hanging to Sanskrit nor shunning of it would make any difference to the situation (of Iyers being cornered).:scared:

 

[kunjuppu]

I agree with the points raised in this post, but we should ponder over the reason and ask the question "why this should happen?". The answer is obvious and simple. In the present day world, Study of Sanskrit alone has no economic value for the student to earn his livelihood. Iyers alone are not responsible for this decadence of Sanskrit studies. In the previous century after the demise of the Hindu kingdoms, the merchant communities especially Nagarathaar and Mudaliars took over the responsibility of running Veda Patasalas in South India. British Government helped in keeping the teaching of Sanskrit in their educational system. When I was young our Municipal School used to teach Sanskrit language, where boys and girls of all communities took the subject for study. It continued in Colleges also. Only after independence we lost this facility slowly due to lack of interest in the Study of Sanskrit.

Well, In western Countries and Americas Sanskrit is taught as a Language in the Universities and academies. In our country also Universities and Academies offer facilities to learn Sanskrit. There are some good Veda Patasalas run by trusts which offer modern education apart from Vedic studies. They do offer stipends to the students who come out successfully till they get good placements in jobs. But these institutions are few.

These are Social changes that are bound to happen,in the changing world, we cannot do anything about them.

dear brahmanyan,

much of this thread is news to me re sanskrit. my own family, for 3 generations we have been wage earners of some kind, and nobody knew sanskrit. the closest was a cousin, who took sanskrit as second language, to help her get high marks. so i really cannot relate to all the fuss and anguish about this language.

i dont know if sanskrit was ever a language of the masses and died down due to conquests or whether it was one the language of the courts or just one of the literary ones. during the islamic rule of delhi, persian was the court language for many a hundred years but today it is almost non existent in india.

it is only a matter of time before china replaces india as the place with the largest number of english speakers. this is because of the eagerness of the world to communicate with each other, and thanks to the accidents and forces of history, english appears to be the language of the future.

in this context, i think the preservation of sanskrit in the universities of the world should ensure that it will not entirely disappear from the face of the earth. but whether it will be resuscitated and brought to life and everyday usage, like the way modern israel did to hebrew, i dont know.

is there a will for that? it appears that many tambrams here have an emotional link to sanskrit, same as muslims to arabic. muslims learn quoran byheart, without going to understanding the modern arabic parlance. same as me, who used to mumble the sanskrit prayers during shraddhams etc. so that i can recite them along with the vathyars.

today, my personal prayers are more in tamil or english, a language, i feel more versed than any other. ..

re veda patasala, i used to see one, in passing, near the sanskrit college in luz. and never gave it a second look or thought. so did all my tambram friends. so i think, to some or maybe even many of us, it is an unfamilar institution.

 

[P.J.]

kunjuppu

I completely agree with you; even languages are not necessary.

 

[sangom]

Thank you for taking time to post your response. The fact that only you bothered to respond among the 50 odd viewers (itself a small number) shows that it is a herculean task to bring together a group of highly individualistic iyers. Just for curiosity I give here the tamil-grantha version of a sloka.
View attachment 2932
This will facilitate chanting slokas accurately. This belongs to us, and not naagari lipi.

"Crying over spilt milk" is what I will say about the OP. Even this one small slOkam has not been written correctly.

கஜானனம் பூதகணாதிஸேவிதம்
கபித்தஜம்பூ பலசார பக்ஷிதம்
உமாசுதம் சோக (ख)வினாசகாரணம்
நமாமி விக்(ग्)னேச்வர பாதபங்கஜம்

'śoka' has become "śokha" and 'vighneśvara' has been wrongly written as "vigneśvara". If this is the situation, what hope can be there?

 

[Brahmanyan]

dear brahmanyan,

much of this thread is news to me re sanskrit. my own family, for 3 generations we have been wage earners of some kind, and nobody knew sanskrit. the closest was a cousin, who took sanskrit as second language, to help her get high marks. so i really cannot relate to all the fuss and anguish about this language.

i dont know if sanskrit was ever a language of the masses and died down due to conquests or whether it was one the language of the courts or just one of the literary ones. during the islamic rule of delhi, persian was the court language for many a hundred years but today it is almost non existent in india.

it is only a matter of time before china replaces india as the place with the largest number of english speakers. this is because of the eagerness of the world to communicate with each other, and thanks to the accidents and forces of history, english appears to be the language of the future.

in this context, i think the preservation of sanskrit in the universities of the world should ensure that it will not entirely disappear from the face of the earth. but whether it will be resuscitated and brought to life and everyday usage, like the way modern israel did to hebrew, i dont know.

is there a will for that? it appears that many tambrams here have an emotional link to sanskrit, same as muslims to arabic. muslims learn quoran byheart, without going to understanding the modern arabic parlance. same as me, who used to mumble the sanskrit prayers during shraddhams etc. so that i can recite them along with the vathyars.

today, my personal prayers are more in tamil or english, a language, i feel more versed than any other. ..

re veda patasala, i used to see one, in passing, near the sanskrit college in luz. and never gave it a second look or thought. so did all my tambram friends. so i think, to some or maybe even many of us, it is an unfamilar institution.

Dear Sri Kunjuppu,

You have analysed the subject very well. It is also my belief that Sanskrit has never been a language of masses for communication. It is a language of high literary value used by scholars.Various dialects of Prakrit and Pali through out North India and Dravidian Languages in South India, prior to Sanskrit. Even Sanskrit has undergone notable metamorphosis from what it was in Vedic period and what it is now. Recently I read an interesting well documented Article on Sanskrit, wherein the author quotes a source which says "The word`Sanskrit' does not occur anywhere in the Vedas. Not a single verse mentions this word as denoting a language". " The Vedic language was referred to as Chandasa even by Panini himself and not as `Sanskrit'."
Other statements about Sanskrit found in the Article were:

"The first epigraphic evidence of Sanskrit is seen in 150 AD and this inscription is in the Brahmi script. (Encyclopedia Britannica, 1982).
From the fifth century A.D. classical Sanskrit is seen to be the dominant language in the inscriptions.
The use of Sanskrit as a language was first observed in the Ramayana (Sundarakanda, 30/17-18)".
(However I have not gone into original documents quoted by the author for its authenticity.)

Students who wish to follow Vedic traditions can join the Veda Patasalas and study, and those who wish to study Sanskrit can join Universities and other educational institution which impart that language.


Regards,

 

[renuka]

Thank you for taking time to post your response. The fact that only you bothered to respond among the 50 odd viewers (itself a small number) shows that it is a herculean task to bring together a group of highly individualistic iyers. Just for curiosity I give here the tamil-grantha version of a sloka.
View attachment 2932
This will facilitate chanting slokas accurately. This belongs to us, and not naagari lipi.

Dear Sir,

The Shloka of the Gajananam Bhoota Ganaadhi Sevitam..you gave is not 100% Grantham Script...it is only a few alphabets here and there that are Grantafied to replace the some absent letters in modern Tamil.

BTW I am a Non Brahmin from Malaysia who made the attempt to study Sanskrit purely out of personal interest to get a better understanding of religious text.(I feel from your reply you could have mistaken me to be an Iyer)

BTW sir..I wonder why you feel the Grantha Lipi belongs to "us" and not Devanagari.

When it comes to scripts and languages I would not like to see anything as "Mine" or "Yours".

I have no problems using even Arabic Jawi script to write anything.

Language is all about phonation that involves the vocal chords,glottis,lungs,tongue and hearing.

Early man spoke and did not have a script to write..later on man developed scripts and started documenting his thoughts.

Even the Vedas was passed by word of mouth and ear(Shruti) before writing became a norm.

A Script(Lipi) just aids the formation of words in our mind and also helps us document our thoughts.

I feel we should not have any feeling that this is mine and that is yours when it comes to knowledge in any form be it from any part of the world.

BTW to get some grantham books one can visit this website:

:: Swarnapuri.in ::

 

[natkaushik]

It is tragic that the iyers responding in this thread' think that study of sanskrit is a waste of time. Without sanskrit there is no brahminism.Just chanting mantras and stotras,without knowing their meanings will make the community a laughing stock and a pitiable cultureless group.If people want to be 'liberal' and do not want to be identified with brahminism then they should not be members of a website devoted to Brahmins' social and religious customs.

 

[P.J.]

The Vanishing Iyers
Sometime back, I saw in Sankara TV, the Inauguration of a Vedic Patasala at the ancestral home
of Paramacharya by Swami Jayandra Saraswati,who was received with due devotion by the local
Iyers.His Holiness must have been aware that none of the children of the congregation present
would be sent to the patasala.It will be only the refuge of Children of poor Bhramins hoping to
better their lot.
Day by day, the study of Samskritham, is receiving less and less attention from Iyers. Gone are
the days when the Iyers were scholars of Tamil and sanskrit,equaly facile with both ,in addition to
English. Nowadays ,it is only the sound of American English, which rules the air.Fortunately,
study of Sanskrit is well encouraged in western countries, and will survive even if it vanishes from
iyer community.
It is tragic to see that sanskrit is being written in the Tamil script with its attendent drawbacks.
The Iyers used to write sanskrit in Grantha Script till 60 years back. They wrote treatises on
Dharmasastras,upanishads in sanskrit using Grantha.Today Grantha has all but disappeared.
While hundreds of practically unused scripts have their Unicode, Grantha is not coded.No Iyer is
even aware of it and if he is,he has no interest in reviving the script. The only grantha font has
been coded by a foreigner.
In short, the Tamil Iyer has completely kicked away the his moorings and become a rootless
person.

If you are really interested to learn Sanskrit, here is one opportunity for you.

 

[kunjuppu]

It is tragic that the iyers responding in this thread' think that study of sanskrit is a waste of time. Without sanskrit there is no brahminism.Just chanting mantras and stotras,without knowing their meanings will make the community a laughing stock and a pitiable cultureless group.If people want to be 'liberal' and do not want to be identified with brahminism then they should not be members of a website devoted to Brahmins' social and religious customs.

if i may say so, it is none of your business to pass judgement, let alone preach who should be members and non members of this forum. if you have not done it already, and which you should have, read the constitution of this forum, to which you signed. such arrogance!!! added to ignorance on top of it...

 

[Brahmanyan]

Iyer's corner.

It is tragic that the iyers responding in this thread' think that study of sanskrit is a waste of time. Without sanskrit there is no brahminism.Just chanting mantras and stotras,without knowing their meanings will make the community a laughing stock and a pitiable cultureless group.If people want to be 'liberal' and do not want to be identified with brahminism then they should not be members of a website devoted to Brahmins' social and religious customs.

Dear Sri "natkaushik",

I do not understand how you have come to the conclusion that the members "responding to this thread think that the study of Sanskrit is a waste of time". Neither I understand what exactly is this Brahminism ? As a Brahmin by birth, I do not follow any "ism", neither I want to be identified with Brahminism just because of my birth. Due to this if I am branded as "a pitiable cultureless person", I don't care, neither I wish to have a certificate from anyone. I will be happy and pleased to be a humanist first and last. Who should be a member of this Forum is decided by the owner and moderator of this Forum, and not by any other individual member.
According to me politeness, humility and Bhakthi are the paramount characters of a Brahmin,and not all the learning in the world.
"Bhajagovindam bhajagovindam
Govindam bhaja muudhamate
Sampraapte sannihite kaale
Nahi nahi rakshati dukrijnkarane.."

Worship Govinda, Worship Govinda,
Worship Govinda. Oh fool!
Rules of Grammar will not save you
At the time of your death."
says Sri Sankaracharya.

With Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[natkaushik]

Dear Shri Brahmanyam,
It sounds nice to say"Politeness,humility and Bhakti are the paramount charactes of a Brahmin" .Do you think other communities do not have these qualities??? Just quoting some some high sounding matter does not make one a scholar. If one wants to be respected as brahmin he should know sanskrit (Hi! PJ! I have studied Sanskrit upto+2, have you???). Of course a person with the qualities you have mentioned will be respected as a good soul but not a brahmin..One should not proudly say that for three generations we have not studied Sanskrit (except Sri kujuppu!) and expect reverence.

everybody refers 'Samskritha Bharathi' as the resource for sanskrit learning. It is only spoken(!!) sanskrit of kindergarden level. Further we need not learn 'spoken' sanskrit. Tamil is our mother tongue and and not sanskrit. As it is English has displaced Tamil from our public life. So friends! if you have ideas on rejuvenating sanskrit education among brahmins please do so.Let us do something about it
pranams

 

[Nara]

....It sounds nice to say"Politeness,humility and Bhakti are the paramount charactes of a Brahmin" .Do you think other communities do not have these qualities???

.. I don't share his views on any other issue, but on this one, I must say, natkaushik is right on... politeness,humility and unfortunately Bhakti are to be found in equal measure across all human beings, irrespective of caste or religion ....

 

[Raji Ram]

.......... everybody refers 'Samskritha Bharathi' as the resource for sanskrit learning. It is only spoken(!!) sanskrit of kindergarden level. Further we need not learn 'spoken' sanskrit. Tamil is our mother tongue and and not sanskrit. As it is English has displaced Tamil from our public life. So friends! if you have ideas on rejuvenating sanskrit education among brahmins please do so.Let us do something about it .....

Dear Sir,

Sanskrit is taken as the second language by many brahmin students ONLY to score good marks to get into a good college.

They also forget the language very soon! With the reservation policy of our govt., Sanskrit helps some brahmins for sure.


And Good sAsthrigaLs mint money; there is no doubt about it. The charges by a Bangalore based sAsthrigaL for conducting
a wedding at Delhi is Rs. 50,000/ + air ticket to and fro Delhi + accommodation in a five * hotel for two days. opcorn:

 

[renuka]

everybody refers 'Samskritha Bharathi' as the resource for sanskrit learning. It is only spoken(!!) sanskrit of kindergarden level. Further we need not learn 'spoken' sanskrit. Tamil is our mother tongue and and not sanskrit. As it is English has displaced Tamil from our public life. So friends! if you have ideas on rejuvenating sanskrit education among brahmins please do so.Let us do something about it
pranams

Dear Sir,


You are purely mistaken...Samskrita Bharati spoken Sanskrit is not Kindergarten level.

Have you seen their publications? Did you attend the World Sanskrit Fair in Bangalore in 2011 organized by them?

Surely not Kindergarten level and it is much much more than the Plus 2 syllabus.

I don't get it yaar...you feel no one wants to learn Sanskrit but at the same time you say one need not learn how to speak Sanskrit becos it is not your Mother Tongue...then why even bother to read and learn Sanskrit?? For what??

I feel one fully masters a language when one speaks it well.

That is why Samskrita Bharati emphasizes on speaking it instead of mugging up rules of grammar.

Once a language is spoken..everything else falls into place.

When I was at Samskrita Bharati once..a little kid there..one of the staffs daughter asked her father "Pita aham payohimam icchami"....the little girl wanted to eat ice cream and wanted her father to go buy it for her.

BTW the staffs children there recite Paninis Ashthadyayi by heart.

So I rather not dub Samskrita Bharati "kindergarten level".


But even though as a person who has a fair knowledge of Sanskrit when I read more and more all that rings in my mind is as what Brahmanyan Ji said in his post above:

bhajagovindam bhajagovindam
govindam bhajamuudhamate
sampraapte sannihite kaale
nahi nahi rakshati dukrijnkarane​

Last but not least I would like to quote this Sanskrit saying:

"Anantasastram bahu veditavyam,
Svalpascha kalo bahavascha vighnah,
Yat sarabhutam tadupasitavyam,
Hamso yatha ksheeramivambumadhyat.


The Sastras are endless; there is much to be known;
time is short, obstacles are many; that which is essence should be grasped,
just as the swan does in the case of milk mixed with water. "

So since time is very short..I guess kindly do not waste it in finding fault with others.

 

[biswa]

I think that maybe we should clarify the first order logic.

A implies B (A => B) does not necessarily mean that B => A

So Brahmin => Politeness (ideally) does not necessarily mean that Politeness => Brahmin.

If A => B does really mean that B => A, then we say that A is equivalent to B.

It did not appear to me (personally) that Mr. Brahmanyan was claiming the equivalence of Brahminness and Politeness (that is everybody who is polite is a Brahmin and vice versa).

 

[Nara]

And Good sAsthrigaLs mint money; there is no doubt about it. The charges by a Bangalore based sAsthrigaL for conducting
a wedding at Delhi is Rs. 50,000/ + air ticket to and fro Delhi + accommodation in a five * hotel for two days.

Good for him Mrs. RR, why must only the wannabe TBs of Delhi and not the Bangalore based sasthikal partake on the good fortune of USA driven IT boom.

 

[Delhi6]

Good for him Mrs. RR, why must only the wannabe TBs of Delhi and not the Bangalore based sasthikal partake on the good fortune of USA driven IT boom.

Why do you call TBs of Delhi as wannabe?

 

[kunjuppu]

Why do you call TBs of Delhi as wannabe?

no. i think you misunderstood.

raji meant two groups, TBs and wannabeTBs who live in delhi. the local TB go for the unionized vathiars, where i believe there is a strict hierarchy, as per all unions, and union rates, and union level of competence

so, if you want a vathiar who probably knows a little more mandhrams or has a little more panache style (read private enterprise) one goes to bangalore. please note that it is not chennai or thanjavur or kumbakonam, as these are considered 'naattupporam' by the wannabeTBs.

i would think, for example, a wannabeTB of mumbai would be siddharth kapoor who married our combined heart throb vidya balan. .. similarly i presume there are equivalents among the highups of delhi