Iyer's Corner

[Haridasa Siva]

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I feel shy to respond to the comments of two people I rever - Sangom sir and Nara sir. I am sure both of you do know that I hold you in high esteem. Having said that, my opinion is that bhakthi has got nothing to do with knowledge and vice versa. Learning a language (Sanskrit, in the instant case) improves one's knowledge but does not have to reflect on one's level of bhakthi. I strongly disagree that lack of Sanskrit knowledge would make a Brahmin (by birth) inferior. We have heard of many qualities of a Brahmin (iron like strength and butter like compassion, etc.) but I don't think Sanskrit defines "Brahminism" (if there is one). Sanskrit is not the property of any one community or group.

Let me reiterate that at a personal level I do regret that I do not know Sanskrit and I am still willing to learn the language.

 

[renuka]

Learning a language (Sanskrit, in the instant case) improves one's knowledge but does not have to reflect on one's level of bhakthi. I strongly disagree that lack of Sanskrit knowledge would make a Brahmin (by birth) inferior.

Dear Haridas,

I agree with you.

In fact the definition of the word Brahmana itself is self explanatory.

Brahmana is defined as " Knower of Brahman"..no where it mentions that a Brahmana is a Knower of Sanskrit.

 

[natkaushik]

இந்த thread ல எழுதறவாளுக்கு ஸம்ஸ்க்ருதம் நன்னாவே தெரியும்னு தோணறது.அதனாலதான் ஸம்ஸ்கருதம் படிக்கறது வ்யர்த்தம்னு சொல்றா. அந்த பாஷை தெரியாதவா வருத்தப்படுவா அது வேண்டாம்னு சொல்லமாட்டா.

நிற்க

இந்த forum ல, ஸம்ஸ்கருதம் நன்னா தெரிஞ்சவா மூணு நாலு பேர் சேந்து ஒரு group ஆரம்பிச்சு, ஒரோரு ஸ்லோகமா( உதாரணமா ப[SUB]4[/SUB]கவத் கீ[SUB]3[/SUB]தையிலிருநது) எடுத்து word by word அர்த்தம், இலக்கண சிறப்புகள் பற்றி எழுதினா என் போன்றவர்களுக்கு அரைகுறை ஞானத்தை விருத்தி செஞசுக்க உதவியா இருக்கும்.

ஈச[SUB]2[/SUB]வர சித்தம்.

 

[renuka]

இந்த threadல எழுதறவாளுக்கு ஸம்ஸ்க்ருதம் நன்னாவே தெரியும்னு தோணறது.அதனாலதான் ஸம்ஸ்கருதம் படிக்கறது வ்யர்த்தம்னு சொல்றா. அந்த பாஷை தெரியாதவா வருத்தப்படுவா அது வேண்டாம்னு சொல்லமாட்டா.

நிற்க

இந்த forumல, ஸம்ஸ்கருதம் நன்னா தெரிஞ்சவா மூணு நாலு பேர் சேந்து ஒரு group ஆரம்பிச்சு, ஒரோரு ஸ்லோகமா( உதாரணமா ப[SUB]4[/SUB]கவத் கீ[SUB]3[/SUB]தையிலிருநது) எடுத்து word by word அர்த்தம், இலக்கணசிறப்புகள் பற்றி எழுதினா என் போன்றவர்களுக்கு அரைகுறை ஞானத்தை விருத்தி செஞசுக்க உதவியா இருக்கும்.

ஈச[SUB]2[/SUB]வர சித்தம்.

Isn't there Tamil words for Thread,Forum,Group,Word by Word??

What is this yaar??

 

[sangom]

I feel shy to respond to the comments of two people I rever - Sangom sir and Nara sir. I am sure both of you do know that I hold you in high esteem. Having said that, my opinion is that bhakthi has got nothing to do with knowledge and vice versa. Learning a language (Sanskrit, in the instant case) improves one's knowledge but does not have to reflect on one's level of bhakthi. I strongly disagree that lack of Sanskrit knowledge would make a Brahmin (by birth) inferior. We have heard of many qualities of a Brahmin (iron like strength and butter like compassion, etc.) but I don't think Sanskrit defines "Brahminism" (if there is one). Sanskrit is not the property of any one community or group.

Let me reiterate that at a personal level I do regret that I do not know Sanskrit and I am still willing to learn the language.

Dear Shri Siva,

Thank you for your very kind words about myself.

I hope you will realize and agree that your "life as a brahmin" is not taken up only by the so-called bhakti component or emotion. Rituals like oupaasanam (which you may perhaps be doing as a brahmin), tarpanam, Sraaddham, why even the nithyapooja, have many components which are not usually done with bhakti as the predominant element in it/them. Understanding well what we utter or say, is as much important and integral as doing certain parts of the religious rites with bhakti, perhaps.

I do not know whether you will agree that for a braahmana not only iron-like strength and butter-like compassion is prescribed but also a trust in the vedas. While Bhakti can be done even by shudras and Panchamas, the learning of the vedas is not allowed to them as per our scriptural injunctions. So, unless you are one of the post-modernist braahmanas who, like the Chaarvakas of yore, treat the vedas as useless, it is necessary to abide by the vedic belief that knowledge of what is uttered is as important as what is uttered. For example, if some stranger were to call you, with affection, love etc., oozing out "you scoundrel, bastard!" will you give importance to that love, affection (bhakti) sentiment or take the literal meaning as more important? Just think. God is no different because god is within you.

If, of course, you bet on a life of complete bhakti without any claims to being a brahmin, of course I will agree 100% with you that sanskrit knowledge is not necessary for such a person and such a life-plan. But even here you will observe that barring the vaishnavite bhakti literature of the south, almost all bhakti literature in most native languages are the works of sanskrit-knowing people, B or NB.

 

[Nara]

I feel shy to respond to the comments ....

HS, now you are making me shy ! I appreciate your kind comment.

Perhaps we are talking about two different things, you are focusing on Bhakti for which knowledge of Sanskrit is not required, and I am talking about avoiding falling prey to superstitions for which again knowledge of Sanskrit is not required. So, we have agreement coming from two different starting points.

I don't think deep knowledge of Sanskrit offers anything useful to the average person. Sanskrit has never been a widely spoken language anyway. Sanskrit has a place in the world the same way Latin does, but for common folks like us nothing is lost by the lack of knowledge in Sanskrit.

regards ...

 

[sarang]

Samskrit will help one to access scriptures, vedantic works, slokas, and general literature in original, uncoloured by translations. It is an ancient, noble, and versatile language. As in tamil proverb, asaiku and aastikku, english for asai, samskrit/tamil as aasti, treasure to be preserved and passed on to succeeding generations.

 

[renuka]

Samskrit will help one to access scriptures, vedantic works, slokas, and general literature in original, uncoloured by translations. It is an ancient, noble, and versatile language. As in tamil proverb, asaiku and aastikku, english for asai, samskrit/tamil as aasti, treasure to be preserved and passed on to succeeding generations.

Dear Sarang ji,

I think it is normal human nature when anything becomes too readily available..people might not know its value....for example there is a saying that goes..."a person staying at the Prayag but takes bath from a well"

So you see..in India Sanskrit is readily available and Gurus are by the thousands..so this makes it seem too readily available that people lose the value for it.

Those who are staying in other countries outside of India face the trouble to get information and even a Guru and we work extra hard to acquire the knowledge cos we know its value since it is not readily available.

But let me add too..that those in India who are dealing with Sanskrit too have a very complacent attitude when it comes to Sanskrit.

Try dealing with any University in India offering MA Sanskrit by distance education..and you will know what I mean.

The staff there seem so lethargic and even the Head of Departments do not reply Emails and and they expect you to call their mobile numbers and when you call them all they say is 'Ok Ok Madam..no problem.." but never even give basic info and they do not realize that time is a constrain for those living abroad and payment for the degree can only be paid by cash that too only thorugh the State Bank of India University branch.. and not anywhere else!

Imagine a person has to take a flight just to make a payment and I got to know from a person here in Msia who also did his MA Sanskrit that many a times the university lost all his assignments which he posted to them and then after 2 months say they found it..they do not even keep a proper track of assignments sent!

Believe me..it is hard to deal with these guys..so dont blame anyone if people show lack of interest in Sanskrit...these Universities dont seem to keen even to do their job..very few of them keep time and honour appointments of those who come from other countries.

So for now I have dropped the idea of the MA even though I have finished the 2 year pre MA foundation course cos it is just too tiresome dealing with Indian Universities with regards to Sanskrit.

One Uni said that since I am a foreign citizen I have to use a local persons address and use that persons name for postal and that person should post all the material to me cos they cant deal directly with a foreign citizen per university rules.

See how user unfriendly..no one is thinking of spreading Sanskrit..everyone is so tied up with red tape!

But Thank God I bought up the whole MA syllabus from Rasthriya Sanskrit Sansthan back in 2010 and will study that on my own without the need to enroll in any University after all I want is knowledge and not a degree behind my name.

So you see..tell me..how will Sanskrit prosper??

 

[kunjuppu]

sanskrit institutes around the worldl

renu,

is there any reason, why you go for sanskrit long distance, from india alone? apparently there may be other places in the world which might provide the same service. and easier to access. here is a list of some of those places. maybe usa or germany might be good option.

or closer to home...australia

best wishes...

 

[renuka]

sanskrit institutes around the worldl

renu,

is there any reason, why you go for sanskrit long distance, from india alone? apparently there may be other places in the world which might provide the same service. and easier to access. here is a list of some of those places. maybe usa or germany might be good option.

or closer to home...australia

best wishes...

Dear Kunjs,

Thanks for the link..I will consider that too.

I have practically given up with India...it feels bad that India is a treasure of Sanskrit knowledge but those in charge of it do not seem motivated.

So right now I have put my plans on hold...just study what I can with the material I have..my son will be entering college in 5 years time..so after that I can take a break from my medical practice and be a full time sanskrit student in India.

Thanks for the link anyway.

 

[natkaushik]

The difficulty Dr Renuka has faced in trying to enrol for a Sanskrit course in a university shows that there is no avenue to increase one’s Sanskrit knowledge beyond what is learnt at school. What about those who do not or did not have that opportunity? It is a frightening thought that the Brahmins coming after two generations from now would have lost an important legacy, unless the Bahmins of today do something about it.
May be we can present Sanskrit books to boys during Upanayanam. May be a CD/flash drive containg Sanskrit Lessons together with sandyavandanam, Upakarma mantras. No doubt tabras will come up with more and better suggestions.BUT SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE AND DONE QUICKLY.

 

[Brahmanyan]

The difficulty Dr Renuka has faced in trying to enrol for a Sanskrit course in a university shows that there is no avenue to increase one’s Sanskrit knowledge beyond what is learnt at school. What about those who do not or did not have that opportunity? It is a frightening thought that the Brahmins coming after two generations from now would have lost an important legacy, unless the Bahmins of today do something about it.
May be we can present Sanskrit books to boys during Upanayanam. May be a CD/flash drive containg Sanskrit Lessons together with sandyavandanam, Upakarma mantras. No doubt tabras will come up with more and better suggestions.BUT SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE AND DONE QUICKLY.

It is a good suggestion to gift Sanskrit Books and CD/flash drive to children on birthdays and other special occasions for learning the language. But it would be helpful and proper to learn the language from a Teacher. In Karnataka most of the religious institutions like Mutts of Saiva, Vaishnava, Madhwa and Veerasaiva teach Sanskrit in their institutions. as a regular subject. Similarly educational institutions in other states also should revive teaching of Sanskrit.

 

[sangom]

It is a good suggestion to gift Sanskrit Books and CD/flash drive to children on birthdays and other special occasions for learning the language. But it would be helpful and proper to learn the language from a Teacher. In Karnataka most of the religious institutions like Mutts of Saiva, Vaishnava, Madhwa and Veerasaiva teach Sanskrit in their institutions. as a regular subject. Similarly educational institutions in other states also should revive teaching of Sanskrit.

Tamil brahmins have mostly given up learning of sanskrit. Though the Upanayanam ceremony is done with lot of money-spending, even the vatu's father who gives Brahmopadesam cannot teach the boy the first mAdhyaahnikam or even the simple "abhivaadaye". I have seen this personally in many cases of PIO parents and also very Indian parents of the next generation.

So, the scope, if any, for sanskrit is among the lowest classes only. Probably the Kerala govt. has become aware of this and are introducing sanskrit study in the primary classes from the next school year. But no Tabra child worth its salt (?) goes today to any government school in Kerala !

 

[natkaushik]

ஸங்கே2 சக்தி: கலியுகே2

There is no doubt that Sanskrit is offered as a subject in schools run by Brahmin mutts (Sringeri, Ragavendra etc.) in Karnataka.But as a result of compulsory kannada policy of the state government, Sanskrit will be fourth choice of students (no economic value!) after English,Kannada and Hindi. In Tamil Nadu due to the two langauage policy, it is Tamil or Sanskrit as second language. only in CBSE schools, Sanskrit is offered as a third language. Teaching Sanskrit from class one will have no takers.

Only if the tabra parents persuade their children to take Sanskrit as second language (in Tamil Nadu, and learn Tamil privately) and second or third language in other states will our future generation be able to keep alive their moorings. The alternative is to create an institution (on the lines of Hindi Prachar Sabha) managed by tabras to teach Sanskrit. If members of this Tamil Brahmins’ Forum can not do it the future is bleak.

 

[prasad1]

It is a good suggestion to gift Sanskrit Books and CD/flash drive to children on birthdays and other special occasions for learning the language. But it would be helpful and proper to learn the language from a Teacher. In Karnataka most of the religious institutions like Mutts of Saiva, Vaishnava, Madhwa and Veerasaiva teach Sanskrit in their institutions. as a regular subject. Similarly educational institutions in other states also should revive teaching of Sanskrit.

Sir,
The formal education is for commercial world. One has to earn their living on the basis of the degree they have. If Sanskrit was the language like HTML. Java or what ever is the most current language, there will be many takers.

If you earn a PHD in Sanskrit, what is market value of that degree?

 

[Brahmanyan]

Sir,
The formal education is for commercial world. One has to earn their living on the basis of the degree they have. If Sanskrit was the language like HTML. Java or what ever is the most current language, there will be many takers.

If you earn a PHD in Sanskrit, what is market value of that degree?

Dear Sri Prasad,

I am with you that learning Sanskrit alone has no market value unless we go for research or teaching . But learning a classical language for its literary value is different. I studied Sanskrit as a second language in school and college upto intermediate level, that gave me basic knowledge in the language to understand some of the literary works with the help of authentic translations. Just as we listen to good music,or travel all the way to visit places of heritage value, reading our ancient literature is for own inner enjoyment. We cannot measure it in mere commercial value.
Earning money is different, it is only a means for living. It is my view that as a seeker of knowledge, learning has to continue till the end of our life.

Warm regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Sri Prasad,

I am with you that learning Sanskrit alone has no market value unless we go for research or teaching . But learning a classical language for its literary value is different. I studied Sanskrit as a second language in school and college upto intermediate level, that gave me basic knowledge in the language to understand some of the literary works with the help of authentic translations. Just as we listen to good music,or travel all the way to visit places of heritage value, reading our ancient literature is for own inner enjoyment. We cannot measure it in mere commercial value.
Earning money is different, it is only a means for living. It is my view that as a seeker of knowledge, learning has to continue till the end of our life.

Warm regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

I am with you 100%. I do admire Renekaji's determination and perseverance in learning Sanskrit. I regret that I did not learn Sanskrit, and I have to depend on others for translation.
Most of our formal education is for earning a living (?) wage, and somehow Sanskrit does not figure in it.

 

[mkrishna100]

I agree with Sri Brahmanyan's post #66 .

 

[Brahmanyan]

I am with you 100%. I do admire Renekaji's determination and perseverance in learning Sanskrit. I regret that I did not learn Sanskrit, and I have to depend on others for translation.
Most of our formal education is for earning a living (?) wage, and somehow Sanskrit does not figure in it.

Dear Sri Prasad,

You can always learn a language with determination. Age is not a bar. With the wide ranging facilities available today you can start learning Sanskrit at any time. Initially you may need a qualified teacher to guide you. Yes I too have high regard for Dr. Renuka for her love and perseverence in learning Sanskrit.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[natkaushik]

For Brahminss Sanskrit knowledge is an identification mark, like poonool.If Sanskrit is unnecessary so is the other. A person having Ph.D in Sanskrit is of more value to Tabras Community, than Java-knowing computer Geeks.I think that Brahmins have the capacity to learn one extra language in addition to what is necessary for economical sustenance.

 

[sangom]

For Brahminss Sanskrit knowledge is an identification mark, like poonool.If Sanskrit is unnecessary so is the other. A person having Ph.D in Sanskrit is of more value to Tabras Community, than Java-knowing computer Geeks.I think that Brahmins have the capacity to learn one extra language in addition to what is necessary for economical sustenance.

Shri Natkaushik sir,

I don't know your age or your sanskrit proficiency. So, kindly excuse me if any of my statements which follow causes hurt to you; the following is my honest opinion in the matter.

I agree that brAhmaNyam without a deep understanding of the Sanskrit language is like chaff, no grain inside but only a (useless) cover. But we tabras have forsook sanskrit and took up English education for the sake of escape from utter poverty and starvation, about 3 or 4 generations ago, depending on the declining financial circumstances of each family. Kerala-based tabras like myself, are able to grasp our ordinary slokas, sahasranaamams etc., to a greater extent than TN-based brahmins simply because Malayalam has a larger sanskrit content and its alphabets have all the Devanagari letters plus the zha and Ra sounds from Tamil also.

Today's efforts to spread simple day-to-day conversational sanskrit will not, in my opinion, suffice the minimum needs of a brAhmaNan. It is for our community associations to teach sanskrit of a higher level. They now have the internet route and in addition they can also organize local students' groups in order to increase the chances for conversation, interaction, etc. But, unfortunately, the organizations like *******, Kerala Brahmin Association (KBA) etc., are not interested in this matter.

I suggest that you start a new thread in this forum for sanskrit teaching and I am sure there will be good response, even from old people like myself. In case you find it inconvenient for any reason, kindly find our someone who will willingly take up that responsibility. From my part I assure all my support, as a would-be learner/student.

 

[prasad1]

For Brahminss Sanskrit knowledge is an identification mark, like poonool.If Sanskrit is unnecessary so is the other. A person having Ph.D in Sanskrit is of more value to Tabras Community, than Java-knowing computer Geeks.I think that Brahmins have the capacity to learn one extra language in addition to what is necessary for economical sustenance.

Welcome to the forum.
So I see you have new soapbox to stand and crow. So you will sacrifice your lively hood for the "tabra Community", or you want a sacrificial lamb.
Please read other posts before jumping in with both feet in an empty pool.

 

[natkaushik]

Dear Mr Sangom

I am old enough (born in the year ‘Chtrabhanu’) to regret not passing on the legacy of Sanskrit knowledge and ‘Sraddha’ in performance of ‘nitya’ and ‘naimitya’ karmas to the next generation. I am also old enough to have developed a thick skin, insulating me from reacting to any perceived criticisms, intended or otherwise.

I am gratefull for your offer of guidance when a thread on Sanskrit Learning is started. The effort of course has to include more enthusiasts to plan the course of action before it can take off. My knowledge of Sanskrit is +2 levels in school, supplemented by further readings with the help of a dictionary, Sabdamanjari, Dhaturoopa Manjari, and laghusidhdanta kaumudi- woefully inadequate for carryig out the propagation of Sanskrit but hopefully good enough to contribute something worthwhile to the effort.
Some of the threads started in this forum dealing with social concerns of Tabras, have degenerated to a slugfest, and to downright calumny stopping, fortunately, just short of questioning the ancestry. I hope and pray that it does not happen here.

 

[mkrishna100]

Very much appreciate the thoughts of Sri Sangom via Post No: 71 .
I am a beginner to Sanskrit and yet to develop a strong commitment to study Sanskrit seriously though I have deep interest in understanding our Vedic Culture and Advaita Philosophy and right now relying on the English books related to the same and studying Sanskrit through self study by bits and pieces and this thread has really got my interest to restudy Sanskrit seriously and so thanks for the people who have directly/indirectly brought the subject of studying Sanskrit in this thread .

 

[Brahmanyan]

Very much appreciate the thoughts of Sri Sangom via Post No: 71 .
I am a beginner to Sanskrit and yet to develop a strong commitment to study Sanskrit seriously though I have deep interest in understanding our Vedic Culture and Advaita Philosophy and right now relying on the English books related to the same and studying Sanskrit through self study by bits and pieces and this thread has really got my interest to restudy Sanskrit seriously and so thanks for the people who have directly/indirectly brought the subject of studying Sanskrit in this thread .

Dear Friend,
At the outset I wish to say that there is nothing wrong in reading our systems of Philosophy with the help of good books available to us. If we have some basic knowledge of Sanskrit it will help us more in understanding the wonderful letrature and poems available in that language. To study Vedas we need proper guidance, better to undergo training in Patasalas as full time students.

Regards,