Legalising lgbt is blasphemy of hinduism

[renuka]

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if a pair of lgbtq wish to be married as per hinduism, how would the hindu priests get them married?

are there mantras to that effect?

could an lgbtq wedding be conducted ceremonially?

Why would the ceremony matter?
Its just a ritual..more important is legality.

 

[prasad1]

Hindu priests regularly marry Hindu- non-Hindu weddings, they also marry on days that are convenient to the couple, sometimes even in the evening. It is all question of money if you have money, I will find you a priest. Sometimes legal but even illegal. Does Balajee complain if He gets black money?


Hinduism does not have one origin, nor does it needs a champion who has a very narrow and limited view.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Mr Prasad opened the Pandora’s box in respect of black money in Balaji Temple.

Counter is awaited.

 

[prasad1]

does hinduism permit/approve or condemn/object same-sex marriage?

is there evidence of any hindu same-sex marriage having been conducted? has there been a precedence?

If you question that choice, how about extramarital relations? Does Hinduism permit/approve it? Obviously, it did. Case in Point Kunti had multiple relations. Even Pandu, Dritarastra, and Vidur were the result of extramarital affairs.

 

[prasad1]

he term homosexuality and the laws prohibiting ‘unnatural’ sex were imposed across the world through imperial might. Though they exerted a powerful influence on subsequent attitudes, they were neither universal nor timeless. They were – it must be kept in mind – products of minds that were deeply influenced by the ’sex is sin’ stance of the Christian Bible. With typical colonial condescension, European definitions, laws, theories and attitudes totally disregarded how similar sexual activity was perceived in other cultures.

There never has been across geography or history a standard expression of, or a common attitude towards sexual acts between members of the same sex. Love of a man for a boy was institutionalised in ancient Greece, amongst Samurais in Japan, in certain African as well as Polynesian tribes. Amongst some Native and South American tribes, erotic relationships between men was acceptable so long as one of the partners was ‘feminine’. For Arabs, so medieval travellers claim, ‘women were for home and hearth, while boys were for pleasure’. These cultures offer no synonym for same-sex intercourse. It was perhaps a practice that did not merit definition, categorization or even condemnation. So long as it did not threaten the dominant heterosexual social construct.

http://devdutt.com/articles/applied-mythology/queer/did-homosexuality-exist-in-ancient-india.html

 

[prasad1]

Construction of Hindu temples in stone began around the sixth century of the Common Era. Construction reached climax between the twelfth and the fourteenth century when the grand pagodas of eastern and southern India such as Puri and Tanjore came into being. On the walls and gateways of these magnificent structures we find a variety of images: gods, goddesses, demons, nymphs, sages, warriors, lovers, priests, monsters, dragons, plants and animals. Amongst scenes from epics and legends, one invariably finds erotic images including those that modern law deems unnatural and society considers obscene.

Curiously enough, similar images also embellish prayer halls and cave temples of monastic orders such as Buddhism and Jainism built around the same time.

The range of erotic sculptures is wide: from dignified couples exchanging romantic glances, to wild orgies involving warriors, sages and courtesans. Occasionally one finds images depicting bestiality coupled with friezes of animals in intercourse. All rules are broken: elephants are shown copulating with tigers, monkeys molest women while men mate with asses. And once in a while, hidden in niches as in Khajuraho, one does find images of either women erotically embracing other women or men displaying their genitals to each other, the former being more common (suggesting a tilt in favour of the male voyeur).

These images cannot be simply dismissed as perverted fantasies of an artist or his patron considering the profound ritual importance given to these shrines. There have been many explanations offered for these images – ranging from the apologetic to the ridiculous. Some scholars hold a rather puritanical view that devotees are being exhorted to leave these sexual thoughts aside before entering the sanctum sanctorum. Others believe that hidden in these images is a sacred Tantric geometry; the aspirant can either be deluded by the sexuality of the images or enlightened by deciphering the geometrical patterns therein. One school of thought considers these images to representations of either occult rites or fertility ceremonies. Another suggests that these were products of degenerate minds obsessed with sex in a corrupt phase of Indian history. According to ancient treatises on architecture, a religious structure is incomplete unless its walls depicts something erotic, for sensual pleasures (kama) are as much an expression of life as are righteous conduct (dharma), economic endeavours (artha) and spiritual pursuits (moksha).

Interpretations and judgements aside, these images tell us that the ‘idea’ of same-sex and what the colonial rulers termed ‘unnatural’ intercourse did exist in India. One can only speculate if the images represent the common or the exception.

http://devdutt.com/articles/applied-mythology/queer/did-homosexuality-exist-in-ancient-india.html

 

[prasad1]

More common are stories of women turning into men and men turning into women. In the Mahabharata, Drupada raises his daughter Shikhandini as a man and even gets ‘him’ a wife. When the wife discovers the truth on the wedding night, all hell breaks loose; her father threatens to destroy Drupada’s kingdom. The timely intervention of a Yaksha saves the day: he lets Shikhandini use his manhood for a night and perform his husbandly duties. In the Skanda Purana, two Brahmins desperate for money disguise themselves as a newly married couple and try to dupe a pious queen in the hope of securing rich gifts. But such is the queen’s piety that the gods decide to prevent her from being made a fool; they turn the Brahmin dressed as a bride into a real woman. The two Brahmins thus end up marrying each other and all ends well.

According to a folk narrative from Koovagam in Tamil Nadu, the Pandavas were told to sacrifice Arjuna’s son Aravan if they wished to win the war at Kurukshetra. Aravan refused to die a virgin. As no woman was willing to marry a man doomed to die in a day, Krishna’s help was sought. Krishna turned into a woman, married Aravan, spent a night with him and when he was finally beheaded, mourned for him like a widow. These stories allow women to have sex with women and men to have sex with men on heterosexual terms. One may interpret these tales as repressed homosexual fantasies of a culture.

Perhaps the most popular stories revolving around gender metamorphoses are those related to Mohini, the female incarnation of Lord Vishnu. They are found in many Puranas. Vishnu becomes a woman to trick demons and tempt sages. When the gods and demons churn the elixir of immortality out of the ocean of milk, Mohini distracts the demons with her beauty and ensures that only the gods sip the divine drink. In another story, Mohini tricks a demon with the power to incinerate any creature by his mere touch to place his hand on his own head. Mohini is so beautiful that when Shiva looks upon her he sheds semen, out of which are born mighty heroes such as Hanuman (according to Shiva Purana) and Ayyappa (according to the Malayalee folk lore). One wonders why Vishnu himself transforms into a woman when he could have appointed a nymph or goddess to do the needful. However, devotees brush aside even the suggestion of a homosexual subtext; for them this sexual transformation is merely a necessary subterfuge to ensure cosmic stability. He who is enchanted by Mohini’s form remains trapped in the material world; he who realizes Mohini’s essence (Vishnu) attains liberation.

In the Brahmavaivarta Purana, Mohini tells Brahma, “Any man who refuses to satisfy a willing woman in her fertile period is a eunuch.” This idea is explicit in the Mahabharata when Arjuna is deprived of his manhood after he spurns the sexual attentions of the nymph Urvashi. Consequently, the mighty archer is forced to live as a ‘eunuch dance teacher’ called Brihanalla in the court of King Virata for a year. All this suggests that in ancient India, men who were ‘unlike men’, unwilling or incapable to have intercourse with women, were deprived of their manhood and expected to live as women in the fringes of mainstream society. Perhaps this explains the existence of the hijra community in India. Like Brihanalla of Mahabharata, hijras have served in the female quarters of royal households for centuries.

http://devdutt.com/articles/applied-mythology/queer/did-homosexuality-exist-in-ancient-india.html

 

[prasad1]

An overview of temple imagery, sacred narratives and religious scriptures does suggest that homosexual activities – in some form – did exist in ancient India. Though not part of the mainstream, its existence was acknowledged but not approved. There was some degree of tolerance when the act expressed itself in heterosexual terms – when men ‘became women’ in their desire for other men, as the hijra legacy suggests. The question that remains now is: how does attitudes towards homosexuals in ancient India affect modern-day attitudes? Is our approval or disapproval of same-sex affection and intercourse dependent on ancient values? And while we ponder over the questions, we must remind ourselves that the ancient sources that censure homosexual conduct, also institutionalised the caste system and approved the subservience of women.

http://devdutt.com/articles/applied-mythology/queer/did-homosexuality-exist-in-ancient-india.html

 

[a-TB]

A TB,
I am fed up with your needling forays here. Try to mature and stop being a baby.
You may offer hugs but accepting or refusing is my right particularly when the hugs come with a wink like our upstart neta did in parliament.
Stop bringing in Srimannarayana here in your childish outpourings. You do not know what is Srimnnarayana. Anyway it is not a stick to beat others with.
I do not have to prove to you that my mind is corruption free and hatred free.
Your frequent screams of Narayana and that new one you have found "Ayyangarval" smacks of Veeramani's obnoxious influence.
Stop doing it when you engage me here or else I will have to report your mischief to Moderator .
This is the last post in which I have chosen to engage you. From now on you will be just ignored.

This is an open forum dear friend. If you are fed up, be mature and stop whining. Better yet ignore like you promise to do.

I have no idea what you are talking about a neta in parliament. I do not harbor ill will towards anyone here or anywhere.

Ayyanagrval is a respectful means to address a person from that faith. I do not know what you are talking about. Who is Veeramani anyway? Another one of your imagination or avatar like Theeppori Munusami??

You dont have to prove anything to me or anyone. Re-read my original statements. I made generic statements about those who harbor ill will about people who are born in a certain way (like LGBTQ). In your response you took ownership to that statement and hence I engaged with that flow.

Sriman Narayana is not your patented idea. You are not an expert based on how you deal with others here. I shared what my understanding is. If someone has hatred towards people who are different, and their ego is always on the watch for others, such a person gets nothing by screaming Narayana.

If you disagree, fine. If you have substance to challenge this do that. Otherwise, stop whining, for Narayana's sake

Only in private chats does one engage another. Here all discussions are open and is an engagement with the whole forum readership.
'
There is no mischief but if there are hate messages of any kind from you , even implied messages I will call that out.

Stop making threats and let us not drag a fine person such as our moderator into this. He has better things to do than deal with your tantrums.

With all this said, I still offer my hand in friendship.

LOL.

 

[Janaki Jambunathan]

What about Shankaranarayan - Gay Union? We even have Nara Simha man & animal avatar! No taboos for our Gods What is true for Narayana is true to his devotee as well - Where is the blasphemy in Hindu religion?

 

[renuka]

what about shankaranarayan - gay union? We even have nara simha man & animal avatar! No taboos for our gods what is true for narayana is true to his devotee as well - where is the blasphemy in hindu religion?

lol!

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Psychology..it comes under psychology and human sexuality.

It doesnt come under.any disorder since it does not require treatment.

is not lgbtq a perversion in behaviour and hence a behavioral/psychic/eccentric condition like nymphomania, warranting psychiatric treatment/therapy?

 

[a-TB]

is not lgbtq a perversion in behaviour and hence a behavioral/psychic/eccentric condition like nymphomania, warranting psychiatric treatment/therapy?

There is nothing called normal and abnormal. If one is seriously indoctrinated in religion like Christianity one can become a psychiatric case talking about morals etc. In creation you find homosexuals, bisexuals etc and no creation is abnormal or mental case. I only worry about those that feel and spread hatred to be the psychiatric cases.

 

[a-TB]

What about Shankaranarayan - Gay Union? We even have Nara Simha man & animal avatar! No taboos for our Gods What is true for Narayana is true to his devotee as well - Where is the blasphemy in Hindu religion?

Dear Janaki Madam:

You always come up with the most apt and humorous response.

There are mythological stories about Vishnu becoming Mohini. Does it mean Vishnu was transgender for a while? Arjuna was a transvestite for a while .

If Vishnu was a Mohini, what happened to Lakshmin in his/her heart. Does it mean Lesbianism is recognized in these stories.

Vishnu doing both can be called bisexual.

I am not sure what our dear holy man has to say about all these besides whining ... LOL

 

[renuka]

is not lgbtq a perversion in behaviour and hence a behavioral/psychic/eccentric condition like nymphomania, warranting psychiatric treatment/therapy?

Nymphomania?
I never feel it needs therapy if a person can handle it.

Ok...lets get things straight.
What about straight men/ women watching porn?
I am sure you must have logged in to watch at least at some point in your life.

Abnormal or therapy needed?
Nope...UNLESS it becomes an obsession that one shirks from other activities in life and affects him/ herself and others.

Ok..LGBT between consenting partners 2 is not perversion.

Its not hard to understand this..just ask yourself..can you ever be attracted to a male even if you are locked up in prison with a Greek God looking male?

Your answer would be No.

Likewise a homosexual male can never be attracted sexually even if he locked up in prison with Aishwarya Rai.

Just think this...by default you are atrracted to females..
Some others by default are attracted to their own sex or both.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

There is nothing called normal and abnormal. If one is seriously indoctrinated in religion like Christianity one can become a psychiatric case talking about morals etc. In creation you find homosexuals, bisexuals etc and no creation is abnormal or mental case. I only worry about those that feel and spread hatred to be the psychiatric cases.

madam,

it is the so-called christian nations like the united states of america who decriminalized lgbtq.

if lgbtq is anti-christian why did christian nations legalize/decriminalize it?

the europeans who are predominantly christians, nakedly indulge in lgbtq.

could you provide evidence that lgbtq is condemned in christian doctrines?

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Nymphomania?
I never feel it needs therapy if a person can handle it.

Ok...lets get things straight.
What about straight men/ women watching porn?
I am sure you must have logged in to watch at least at some point in your life.

Abnormal or therapy needed?
Nope...UNLESS it becomes an obsession that one shirks from other activities in life and affects him/ herself and others.

Ok..LGBT between consenting partners 2 is not perversion.

Its not hard to understand this..just ask yourself..can you ever be attracted to a male even if you are locked up in prison with a Greek God looking male?

Your answer would be No.

Likewise a homosexual male can never be attracted sexually even if he locked up in prison with Aishwarya Rai.

Just think this...by default you are atrracted to females..
Some others by default are attracted to their own sex or both.

madam,

imho, a man getting attracted to a woman and vice versa is natural/normal basal instinct.

in every species, the male getting attracted to female and vice versa is a natural/normal basal instinct.

this natural basal instinct is essentially required for copulation, reproduction and multiplication of species. you know this better than I do.

the Creator Himself created the creations, the species, with this basal instinct by nature as normal.

the other basal instincts, man-to-man and woman-to-woman, is obviously abnormal and anti-natural.

this is my humble opinion, not subjective opinion.

Also, unless a man or a woman is a saint, who has conquered/overcome by spiritual powers the basal instinct, if a man does not get attracted to a woman who is not his mother/sister/kith/kin or if a woman does not get attracted to a man who is not her brother/father/kith/kin, in all probability there is something abnormal, perhaps physical or perhaps psychical, in that person, warranting treatment/therapy. i trust you would have diagnosed such cases also and offered counsel/advise.

watching porn is a common temptation, a weakness of the mind, that would die eventually when indulged continually. pornography may be classified at most as vice rather than crime or a psychiatric condition. addictions to porn could be de-addicted through counsel/advice.

 

[renuka]

madam,

imho, a man getting attracted to a woman and vice versa is natural/normal basal instinct.

in every species, the male getting attracted to female and vice versa is a natural/normal basal instinct.

this natural basal instinct is essentially required for copulation, reproduction and multiplication of species. you know this better than I do.

the Creator Himself created the creations, the species, with this basal instinct by nature as normal.

the other basal instincts, man-to-man and woman-to-woman, is obviously abnormal and anti-natural.

this is my humble opinion, not subjective opinion.

Also, unless a man or a woman is a saint, who has conquered/overcome by spiritual powers the basal instinct, if a man does not get attracted to a woman who is not his mother/sister/kith/kin or if a woman does not get attracted to a man who is not her brother/father/kith/kin, in all probability there is something abnormal, perhaps physical or perhaps psychical, in that person, warranting treatment/therapy. i trust you would have diagnosed such cases also and offered counsel/advise.

watching porn is a common temptation, a weakness of the mind, that would die eventually when indulged continually. pornography may be classified at most as vice rather than crime or a psychiatric condition. addictions to porn could be de-addicted through counsel/advice.

see I knew it! If I mention Porn..somehow I get the Truth out...that is "Porn is a vice but not a psychological disorder"!LOL...its becos everyone has seen it.
Finally its just our own perceptions and perceptions..if it suits us its normal..if it doesnt suit us its abnormal..totally unfair.

Ok coming to God...

lets see...Hindu Gods mostly have female partners...so they seem mostly straight.
Some have an unknown side..eg Vishnu and Shiva did combine and make Hari Hara...so no idea what were their feelings.

Next is Abrahamic concept of God.

Jewish --- God - There is the concept of Shekinah in Kabbalah school of thought..Shekinah is Feminine its like Prakirti in Hinduism where its a projection of God's own power.

Christian ---God..had a son but yet claims immaculate conception.

Islam --Allah has no partners. Only Allah is truly unwed.

 

[a-TB]

madam,

it is the so-called christian nations like the united states of america who decriminalized lgbtq.

if lgbtq is anti-christian why did christian nations legalize/decriminalize it?

the europeans who are predominantly christians, nakedly indulge in lgbtq.

could you provide evidence that lgbtq is condemned in christian doctrines?

Not Madam .. (A while ago my family used this login but lost interest in the forum quickly). Mr is fine.

It is a defect in our thinking to divide people in terms of normal and abnormal. Everything is nature is normal. If someone causes harm to others (bestiality, pedophile) that has to be stopped by the rest of the society.

Please understand this - LGBTQ people who are right now living as your friends and relatives (you just do not know) are not harming you. People who are paranoid about this LGBTQ may have deep issues about their own identity and orientation. Let us live and let live. Someone can say your kind of thinking is abnormal and recommend psychiatry. Will that be right? Just think about it.

There may or may not be a creator depending on your beliefs. But that creator did create LGBTQ, so respect them which is like respecting the creator.

America has thinking and compassionate people despite a huge voting blocks of (hate mongering) Christian Evangelicals. They were dead against gays using arguments like what you are putting forth (normal/abnormal, creator's desire etc). It took a lot of battles to decriminalize and even allow domestic partnership recognized by law.

These Christian evangelicals created non-issues into issues by denying little Transgender boys and girls to use the bathroom in schools of their chosen gender. The suicide rates among transgenders is the highest.

A sizeable number of catholic priests are pedophiles. The Church of the Vatican has been covering up for years. Overall the religion has done harm to the world by these practices.

Many are born Christians but their compassion overcame their beliefs of hatred. In USA alone they had this idea 'all men are created equal' and yet they practiced slavery for a very long time.

Look at the actions of 'true' Christians and word of the Church or pope to know where they stand on such issues.

 

[a-TB]

see I knew it! If I mention Porn..somehow I get the Truth out...that is "Porn is a vice but not a psychological disorder"!LOL...its becos everyone has seen it.
Finally its just our own perceptions and perceptions..if it suits us its normal..if it doesnt suit us its abnormal..totally unfair.

Ok coming to God...

lets see...Hindu Gods mostly have female partners...so they seem mostly straight.
Some have an unknown side..eg Vishnu and Shiva did combine and make Hari Hara...so no idea what were their feelings.

Next is Abrahamic concept of God.

Jewish --- God - There is the concept of Shekinah in Kabbalah school of thought..Shekinah is Feminine its like Prakirti in Hinduism where its a projection of God's own power.

Christian ---God..had a son but yet claims immaculate conception.

Islam --Allah has no partners. Only Allah is truly unwed.

Very smart to have found the right issue for a counter example.

There are many who would recommend psychiatry to someone who watches porn (and mastu*****)

Is that normal? Should porn watchers be objects of hate? I hope not. Let us live and let live

 

[prasad1]

Groupers (a type of fish) they mature only as females and have the ability to change sex after sexual maturity. If the big male dies, the largest female that can increase fitness by changing sex will do so.

That is normal for them.
[FONT=&quot]
On the other hand, those fish classified as protandrous hermaphrodites are born male and become female at a later size and age. Snook, for instance, are born male. They reach reproductive maturity around 18 inches in length; sexual reversal occurs in the fall after the summer spawn and usually between 1 and 6 years of age.

Again that is normal for them.

The whole theory of evolution would come crashing down if there was no variety.
I suppose being different is normal in evolution.[/FONT]

 

[sravna]

Dear Folks,

LGBT should not be seen in isolation to understand the problem. We need to see this not in isolation but as part of a larger mindset and abnormalities. Even in our forum we see the same people aligning themselves with one another for a seemingly different types of problems. In my view there are two different basic personalities. I may be simplifying a bit but it overall captures the truth. One is materialists and the other is humanists. They may also be classified as selfish and selfless or greedy and content or cold and warm atheist and theist or lgbt and straight. As I said there is some simplification in this but the black and white is clear.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Folks,

LGBT should not be seen in isolation to understand the problem. We need to see this not in isolation but as part of a larger mindset and abnormalities. Even in our forum we see the same people aligning themselves with one another for a seemingly different types of problems. In my view there are two different basic personalities. I may be simplifying a bit but it overall captures the truth. One is materialists and the other is humanists. They may also be classified as selfish and selfless or greedy and content or cold and warm atheist and theist or lgbt and straight. As I said there is some simplification in this but the black and white is clear.

Welcome back.

I am sorry that what ever retreat you went to did not work. You are as confused as before.

There is no black and white in this universe, everything is a shade of gray. Your simplification may work on a five-year-old child, or until they know better.

The colors we see are simply a degree of how much of this color present in light is reflected. To be completely accurate, a color reflects the wavelengths in the NM range that our retinal cones respond to.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Prasad,

But you seem to chose a side which corresponds to either black or white. Let us try to see the larger scale before wanting to focus on the smaller scales. and also try avoiding cliches like saying I am as confused as before. It only shows there is dearth of substance in your argument.

 

[prasad1]

Black is not a color and similarly white is not a color, they are various shades of Gray
[FONT=q_serif]
Life Depends on the individual's point of view. There are lots of things that can be in terms of binary as happiness and sadness for 1 and 0. There are lots of dot numbers in between them and so it is not limited to just 1 and 0. Dot numbers are more like evolving from one point to the other and that makes sense.

[/FONT][FONT=q_serif]From my point of view, life is not a binary. This will very much depend on how you view life or what an individual's metaphor for life is but life to me is colorful than just limited to 1 and 0. At least to me, life in a form of a binary is limiting. Let's take an example of a switch, it is either off or on and there's none in between that. If life is viewed as dead or alive and there's none in between that'll lack meaning right? A person can be alive but his aliveness may not hold the purpose of being alive. So I say life in black and white is limiting. It is either this or that and no other options. It takes varieties to take the two forms but quite limiting. If life is binary, it's tinily explored and lacks color.[/FONT]