Let's objectively see the effect of Prayers

[sravna]

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This is related to my other thread on cooler chennai this summer. It was decided by many of us that a mass prayer should be performed to bring down the heat of Chennai.

It has been 2 days since that was decided and I would like to record here the effect of prayers to bring down the temperature. For each month for the next 4 months I have given the numbers in parenthesis, the average maximum temperature of the month for the past 5 years. Everyday I will also update the average maximum temperature for these months for the current year.

Feb

2009 (32)
2010 (30)
2011 (30)
2012 (31)
2013 (31)

2014 (30.6)*
*- starting from Feb 11, the day prayers started.

We can consider the prayers a great success if we can bring down the temperature by 1 degree C over that of the last year especially because this summer is predicted to be the hottest ever.

The weather site I am using for reference is: Weather Forecast & Reports - Long Range & Local | Wunderground | Weather Underground

 

[ashwin_ash]

This is related to my other thread on cooler chennai this summer. It was decided by many of us that a mass prayer should be performed to bring down the heat of Chennai.

It has been 2 days since that was decided and I would like to record here the effect of prayers to bring down the temperature. For each month for the next 4 months I have given the numbers in parenthesis, the average maximum temperature of the month for the past 5 years. Everyday I will also update the average maximum temperature for these months for the current year.

Feb

2009 (32)
2010 (30)
2011 (30)
2012 (31)
2013 (31)

2014 (31)*
*- starting from Feb 11, the day prayers started.

We can consider the prayers a great success if we can bring down the temperature by 1 degree C over that of the last year especially because this summer is predicted to be the hottest ever.

The weather site I am using for reference is: Weather Forecast & Reports - Long Range & Local | Wunderground | Weather Underground

Praypraypraypraypraypraypraypraypray...all pray and pray

 

[sravna]

OP updated.

Today's temperature the same as the average of all the Feb 13 temp in the past years.

 

[vgane]

This is related to my other thread on cooler chennai this summer. It was decided by many of us that a mass prayer should be performed to bring down the heat of Chennai.

It has been 2 days since that was decided and I would like to record here the effect of prayers to bring down the temperature. For each month for the next 4 months I have given the numbers in parenthesis, the average maximum temperature of the month for the past 5 years. Everyday I will also update the average maximum temperature for these months for the current year.

Feb

2009 (32)
2010 (30)
2011 (30)
2012 (31)
2013 (31)

2014 (30.6)*
*- starting from Feb 11, the day prayers started.

We can consider the prayers a great success if we can bring down the temperature by 1 degree C over that of the last year especially because this summer is predicted to be the hottest ever.

The weather site I am using for reference is: Weather Forecast & Reports - Long Range & Local | Wunderground | Weather Underground

Dear Shri Sravna,

Like your objective approach!

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sravna,

Like your objective approach!

Thank you Sir. Lets keep praying, and wait and see

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,

Temperature fluctuates too..how can you proof that its becos of your prayer?

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

Temperature fluctuates too..how can you proof that its becos of your prayer?

Dear Renuka,

Meteorologists have predicted this year to be the hottest ever. Even if it doesn't turn out so, it will be a very hot year and very likely at least as hot as the last year. That is the reason I say that if the temperature is at least 1 degree less than that of the last year we can reasonably conclude that it is because of our prayers.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

Meteorologists have predicted this year to be the hottest ever. Even if it doesn't turn out so, it will be a very hot year and very likely at least as hot as the last year. That is the reason I say that if the temperature is at least 1 degree less than that of the last year we can reasonably conclude that it is because of our prayers.

Dear Sravna,

Evidence??

How are you going to proof this?

Just say if I form another group and wish that the temperatures get higher cos I might like the idea of heat and humidity...and if the temperature does go up..will you accept that my "prayers" worked?

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

Science predicts that the temperature will rise. But we are praying for the opposite. If it does go up then obviously the prediction of science was correct and the prayers did not work. If the temperature goes down instead of going up then can we not conclude that the prayers worked? The more the temperature goes down the more we can be sure it is because of the prayers.

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,

Weather predictions are not 100% accurate.

It was predicted here that the heat wave and lack of rain will last till mid March but for the past 2 days we have been having heavy rains in the late afternoons.

BTW previously when we had the haze and lack of rain..cloud seeding was done..so it was not a "natural" rain but an induced rain and frogs never croaked.

Frogs only seem to croak for natural occurring rain and not "induced" rain.

So Sravna..I think our amphibian friends seem to know the difference between natural and induced rain.

May be we should get a frog and ask him to predict the temperature...it saves us all the trouble!

 

[tks]

Dear Sravna,

Weather predictions are not 100% accurate.

It was predicted here that the heat wave and lack of rain will last till mid March but for the past 2 days we have been having heavy rains in the late afternoons.

BTW previously when we had the haze and lack of rain..cloud seeding was done..so it was not a "natural" rain but an induced rain and frogs never croaked.

Frogs only seem to croak for natural occurring rain and not "induced" rain.

So Sravna..I think our amphibian friends seem to know the difference between natural and induced rain.

May be we should get a frog and ask him to predict the temperature...it saves us all the trouble!

Dr Renu

If some people want to pray there is no harm. It may make them feel better.

Beyond just this topic but for anything that happens after a 'prayer' human mind can establish correlation BUT it is only in their mind - one can concoct a set of words to feel a sense of control.

The only thing that may make sense is not claim any objectivity, science , philosophy or whatever else into this since those are matters requiring understanding and not belief.

Praying and feeling a sense of connection is purely a subjective belief activity of one's mind. If they want to feel it is all scientific so be it - it is futile to debate anyone's belief.

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

You were sure that prayers wouldn't work. Why bother yaar? If it works let those who believe in God have the solace that prayer worked and you people think it was just some random fluctuation. Agreed?

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

You were sure that prayers wouldn't work. Why bother yaar? If it works let those who believe in God have the solace that prayer worked and you people think it was just some random fluctuation. Agreed?

Dear Sravna,

I am not AGAINST prayers but I am not supportive of any so called "inaction' way.

BTW some person invited me to come for a function where they are having Homa to get rid of sin!
Some priest has decided to play God and ask people to do some Homa and all their sins to be cleansed.

I told the person that we should be brave enough to face our sins and the consequences.

Be bold enough to take actions to prevent sin instead of doing a Homa to cleanse sins and only to repeat them again.

One has to decide to be a sinner or a saint and not be a pendulum swinging from sainthood to sinnerhood.

The person finally told me that after hearing what I said he wont be going for the Homa.

So you see Sravna..I am NOT discouraging prayers of any kind but just not into stuff that is all talk but no action or worse still "imagining the results".

 

[sangom]

My dear Sravna,

I don't participate here as much as I used to, mainly because my health does not permit me to sit before the computer very much. Yet, today I happened to log in and saw this thread of yours. I thought my views may not be unwelcome.

"Prayers", meaning prayers to a god external to humans - in any form - does not bring in any favourable results, simply because there does not exist any such "god". But an individual may, at times, find that his/her prayers are "answered". This is because the person concerned has had the good results of his/her past karmas which come into play as a result of his prayers and causes his/her wish to be realized. Such incidents are taken (or misunderstood, rather) as though there are (several) 'gods' sitting up there in the heavens (?) and that they are capable of discretionary powers to grant or deny, the wishes of devotees who pray to the appropriate 'god' sufficiently fervently.

We do not get to know the innumerable cases in which the prayers go unanswered and even tragedies ensue, but invariably, the devout people blame their "fate" or their "karmas" for such failures of prayers. This shows that the link between karmas and results of prayers was not entirely unknown but 'gods' were brought in to explain successful prayers.

Climate and city temperatures etc., are very complex subjects and one man's prayer will definitely not bring out any change in such things. Chennai (Madras) had recorded a low of 15 D centigrade in Feb. 1959, and the average low for Feb. is 21.1 D centigrade (Chennai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Hence, the efficacy of your divine invocation should be seen with reference to past recorded "lows" and also the average of May & June this year.

 

[sravna]

Folks,

An interesting piece of info. The prayers started on Feb 11. The temperature from that day till today is as follows:

Feb 11- 32
Feb 12- 31
Feb 13- 30
Feb 14- 29

It would be great if the temp stabilizes at 27-28 for Feb.

 

[renuka]

Folks,

An interesting piece of info. The prayers started on Feb 11. The temperature from that day till today is as follows:

Feb 11- 32
Feb 12- 31
Feb 13- 30
Feb 14- 29

It would be great if the temp stabilizes at 27-28 for Feb.

Sravna.

Its Valentine's day today..all lovers would have wished for a cool weather and may be God answered their prayers!

 

[sravna]

My dear Sravna,

I don't participate here as much as I used to, mainly because my health does not permit me to sit before the computer very much. Yet, today I happened to log in and saw this thread of yours. I thought my views may not be unwelcome.

"Prayers", meaning prayers to a god external to humans - in any form - does not bring in any favourable results, simply because there does not exist any such "god". But an individual may, at times, find that his/her prayers are "answered". This is because the person concerned has had the good results of his/her past karmas which come into play as a result of his prayers and causes his/her wish to be realized. Such incidents are taken (or misunderstood, rather) as though there are (several) 'gods' sitting up there in the heavens (?) and that they are capable of discretionary powers to grant or deny, the wishes of devotees who pray to the appropriate 'god' sufficiently fervently.

We do not get to know the innumerable cases in which the prayers go unanswered and even tragedies ensue, but invariably, the devout people blame their "fate" or their "karmas" for such failures of prayers. This shows that the link between karmas and results of prayers was not entirely unknown but 'gods' were brought in to explain successful prayers.

Climate and city temperatures etc., are very complex subjects and one man's prayer will definitely not bring out any change in such things. Chennai (Madras) had recorded a low of 15 D centigrade in Feb. 1959, and the average low for Feb. is 21.1 D centigrade (Chennai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Hence, the efficacy of your divine invocation should be seen with reference to past recorded "lows" and also the average of May & June this year.

Dear Shri Sangom,

I agree in a fundamental way with you that there is really not an external God but only in our perception.

I agree that the efficacy of the prayers should be based on the long term results. At least we need to wait till this summer is over.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear sravna,

What were the specific metrics?

How many of you prayed? If I increased the number of people praying what effect will it have on the temperature? How many hours did you pray? If the man hours increase what will be the effect on the temperature?

Whom do you pray to? Any specific God like varuna, Agni or Siva or Ganapathy?

Are women allowed in your group? If so how many were there? What was their ratio to the men in the group? What will happen if this ratio is increased or decreased? What about children?

Can you maintain this tempeature through out the year-even during the summer days? If yes why dont you do it? If no why is it not possible?

To start with please answer these questions. Then I will ask more. Thanks.

 

[Vaagmi]

My dear Sravna,
I don't participate here as much as I used to, mainly because my health does not permit me to sit before the computer very much. Yet, today I happened to log in and saw this thread of yours. I thought my views may not be unwelcome.

Dear Sangom,

If sitting before a Computer is difficult, please see whether you can get a good tablet. You can hold it in any position and key in data. If you get a calling tablet with wifi with a router in tandem, you can lie down on your bed or easy-chair and happily and energetically participate in the discussions in TB Forum. Try that. I would like to have you participating in the discussions. Wish you happy times with a new tablet.

 

[sravna]

Dear sravna,

What were the specific metrics?

How many of you prayed? If I increased the number of people praying what effect will it have on the temperature? How many hours did you pray? If the man hours increase what will be the effect on the temperature?

Whom do you pray to? Any specific God like varuna, Agni or Siva or Ganapathy?

Are women allowed in your group? If so how many were there? What was their ratio to the men in the group? What will happen if this ratio is increased or decreased? What about children?

Can you maintain this tempeature through out the year-even during the summer days? If yes why dont you do it? If no why is it not possible?

To start with please answer these questions. Then I will ask more. Thanks.

Dear Shri Vaagmi,

I do not have an answer to all of your questions. But I can say that although more people pray the better would be the effect, what really matters is their sincerity to the task and the belief in God. I do not think it matters whether a man prays or a woman prays.

The prayers were started with the intention to produce a permanent effect on the Chennai temperatures. I along with many others believe that the prayers would be answered. The more general wish is to have a cooler globe and not only Chennai with all the man made damages be set right. God is finally the one who finally decides because he sees the whole.

I do not pray to any particular form or name of God though I think it does not make a difference. I believe one may choose his favorite God to pray.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Dear Sangom,

If sitting before a Computer is difficult, please see whether you can get a good tablet. You can hold it in any position and key in data. If you get a calling tablet with wifi with a router in tandem, you can lie down on your bed or easy-chair and happily and energetically participate in the discussions in TB Forum. Try that. I would like to have you participating in the discussions. Wish you happy times with a new tablet.

Your sarcasm and mocking of an elderly gentleman is reprehensible.

 

[prasad1]

I don't participate here as much as I used to, mainly because my health does not permit me to sit before the computer very much. Yet, today I happened to log in and saw this thread of yours. I thought my views may not be unwelcome.

"Prayers", meaning prayers to a god external to humans - in any form - does not bring in any favourable results, simply because there does not exist any such "god". But an individual may, at times, find that his/her prayers are "answered". This is because the person concerned has had the good results of his/her past karmas which come into play as a result of his prayers and causes his/her wish to be realized. Such incidents are taken (or misunderstood, rather) as though there are (several) 'gods' sitting up there in the heavens (?) and that they are capable of discretionary powers to grant or deny, the wishes of devotees who pray to the appropriate 'god' sufficiently fervently.

We do not get to know the innumerable cases in which the prayers go unanswered and even tragedies ensue, but invariably, the devout people blame their "fate" or their "karmas" for such failures of prayers. This shows that the link between karmas and results of prayers was not entirely unknown but 'gods' were brought in to explain successful prayers.

Welcome back, hope you feel better. Good to see your post.
I do believe in Brahman, the impersonal God of Advaita. I agree with you that praying to this external God for material gains is fruitless, and any correlation is purely coincidental. By not accepting responsibility for individual's action, we only increase the Karma phalas.

 

[prasad1]

Dear sravna,

What were the specific metrics?

How many of you prayed? If I increased the number of people praying what effect will it have on the temperature? How many hours did you pray? If the man hours increase what will be the effect on the temperature?

Whom do you pray to? Any specific God like varuna, Agni or Siva or Ganapathy?

Are women allowed in your group? If so how many were there? What was their ratio to the men in the group? What will happen if this ratio is increased or decreased? What about children?

Can you maintain this tempeature through out the year-even during the summer days? If yes why dont you do it? If no why is it not possible?

To start with please answer these questions. Then I will ask more. Thanks.

Good questions. I would wait for the reply.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Sangom,

If sitting before a Computer is difficult, please see whether you can get a good tablet. You can hold it in any position and key in data. If you get a calling tablet with wifi with a router in tandem, you can lie down on your bed or easy-chair and happily and energetically participate in the discussions in TB Forum. Try that. I would like to have you participating in the discussions. Wish you happy times with a new tablet.

Good advice. Sangomji is very high-tech savvy individual. I think your advice is appropriate for such a person.

 

[renuka]

You guys should watch the fun in the local papers here.

2 religious groups are having a problem with regards to the usage of a word to describe God in the Bible.

So one Non Hindu person suggested to use the word Brahman since the Christian concept of God involves a trinity like Hindus.

I wonder what todays paper will carry about Brahman.Hopefully no one drags in Maya!LOL