lets talk about money

[prasad1]

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I sense that somehow with the advent of Fiat Money India began to lose it ECONOMIC STRONG HOLD.

We TRADED with almost all part of the world , our society was more vibrant we build colossal temples , India is so rich that it attracted Moguls,Europeans . We traded Spices, agriculture commodities for a good value before the advent of fiat money. We somehow had a good sense of bartering.

But with fiat money the same goods value began to diminish some how. You don't know to what value you are selling and there are too many corrupt hands .

If Fiat money demands better governance which we cannot support, then we have to ditch this and go back to barter system. (countries like singapore benefits from fiat money - due to prudent governance but we cannot dream of that governance here.)

Why we should support a system that is pulling us down ?

Please discuss.....

Mr. HRHKji,
Do you really know what you are talking about?

India is so rich that it attracted Moguls,Europeans . We traded Spices, agriculture commodities for a good value before the advent of fiat money.

You could say that about any country colonized including USA, Ethiopia, Australia, south America and most of Africa.

Let me be brutal and honest, you do not make any sense.
You are wallowing in some mythical world, and trying to drag us with you.
Your flat earth does not exist, so it is a useless thread.
Your question should be

Is there any fools here?

 

[biswa]

if money supply increase due to gdp increase then too there won't be rise in prices.

You are right. Inflation is definitely caused by increase in money supply. However some goods are difficult to compare directly. Is riding a train same as riding a plane? Since it is not, once planes were invented, plane tickets are priced arbitrarily higher. In certain cases, today's computer may be 2X as powerful as last years computer, even at the same price. In those cases, there is actually deflation.

 

[Amirtha]

Very interesting facts about modern money. This youtube vedio goes for about 45 minutes. Worth watching it.

Kind Regards

Money As Debt - Full Length Documentary - YouTube

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

biswaji
if inflation and deflation is mere manipulations of corrupt minds what is the point?

a flat in Mumbai costs 100 cores few kms away farmers of the same land commit suicides en masse

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

anthanan enbawan arravon marravuirukkum
senthanmai poondu ozhugallam..

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear HRHK JI

If you have not already done so, I'd suggest you read " Celestine Prophecy ".

Yay Yem

 

[Amirtha]

I have read and watched clestine prophecy. It is really very informative. I really hope it wont go as bad as his prediction.

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

not read, but if it is on any doomsday prophecy not my cup of tea.
just seriously want to discuss on a better monetary system that's all.
the curent one is against natural order. coz of this system only people get corrupted and society losing its values

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear HRHK Ji

No. It's definitely not one of those "Doomsday Prophesies", and I too have similar feelings towards
such stuff .

It's all generally about evolution of human conscience, how far we have come and a seemingly logical
postulate of where we are headed. The impact - as with most books, is lost when viewed as a movie.

James Redfield uses the style of a Thriller Paperback writer and brings in some fictitious, long lost
inscriptions, written in an ancient and forgotten script supposedly found in South America
[ Peru to be specific ] to spin his web. He stops at the Eighth Insight in this book but went on to
later describe other "Insights ".

Very different from Dan Brown's style - though both came under a considerable flak from
Church affiliated bodies.

Let me see if I can copy-paste an excerpt for you, definitely worth reading.
Yay Yem

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

prasadji
i prefer to continue in thisl thread as many points regards the origin and demerits already discussed here.
your question why India is more corrupted using the same fiat Money system is a valid question. will come to you on this later.
first on the history part lets ignore China money on 11th century ,since it died a natural death and it didn't have international influence .
current fiat money system started even before Nixon shock. convertibility issue was off during war periods and on during peace time.
roughly we can say from internet sources it emerge during mid of 1800s and gained momentum in early 1900s
will continue ..

 

[prasad1]

ok.
You are fixated on this topic. You think that the corruption in India would disappear if we banish "Fiat Money". You also contend that British introduced us this type of currency.


Can you prove that corruption would be eliminated, if we get back to gold standard? I am sure you can not prove it.


A little history of Fiat money:
Fiat money - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Fiat money originated in 11th century China, and its use became widespread during the Yuan and Ming dynasties. The Nixon Shock of 1971 ended the direct convertibility of the United States dollar to gold. Since then all reserve currencies have been fiat currencies, including the U.S. dollar and the euro.


By World War I most nations had a legalized government monopoly on bank notes and the legal tender status thereof. In theory, governments still promised to redeem notes in specie on demand. However, the costs of the war and the massive expansion afterward made governments suspend redemption in specie. Since there was no direct penalty for doing so, governments were not immediately responsible for the economic consequences of printing more money, which led to hyperinflation – for example in Weimar Germany.
Attempts were made to reassert currency stability by anchoring it to wholesale gold bullion rather than making it payable in specie. This money combined pure fiat currency, in that the currency was limited to central bank notes and token coins that were current only by government fiat, with a form of convertibility, via gold bullion exchange, or via exchange into US dollars which were convertible into gold bullion, under the 1945 Bretton Woods system.




From 1944 to 1971, the Bretton Woods agreement fixed the value of 35 United States dollars to one troy ounce of gold.
Other currencies were pegged to the U.S. dollar at fixed rates. The U.S. promised to redeem dollars in gold to other central banks. Trade imbalances were corrected by gold reserve exchanges or by loans from the International Monetary Fund. This system collapsed when the United States government ended the convertibility of the US dollar for gold in 1971, in what became known as the Nixon Shock.


So all currencies in the world are fiat money. If corruption is due to fiat money, then can you explain the disparity in corruption between countries?


Corruption is due to the erosion of moral value, and not linked with money.
People practice corruption without money ever changing hand.
Stealing of merchandise, nepotism, favoritism, bribe in kind are all corruption and may not involve any fiat money.

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

Nixon shock is on how US broke its promise to other nations. fiat Money is on how nation broke its promise to its people .
China printing money had its natural death.
internet sources say fiat money to India is by British and only around mid 1800s. will send the link next time.
before that fiat Money was not widely accepted, some thuglak money may be in vogue ,its effect is only localized and that too short lived.
my contention are based on internet resources ,sites affliated to GOI .

but if some one proves that fiat Money is in vogue for centuries before then i accept im wrong and quit

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

A farmer in today " neeya naana " show laments, "why we cant make our ends meet. I don't understand."

Very Naive and innocent indeed.

how long the govt will fool them paying fiat money to their produce. why don't they dump more money to villages and agriculture. then people wont travel from villupuram to chennai daily to make a living.

why members don't want to discuss on the absurdity of the fiat money logic and the suffering it brings on to majority.

how long the farmers are going to suffer?

 

[prasad1]

Nixon shock is on how US broke its promise to other nations. fiat Money is on how nation broke its promise to its people .
China printing money had its natural death.
internet sources say fiat money to India is by British and only around mid 1800s. will send the link next time.
before that fiat Money was not widely accepted, some thuglak money may be in vogue ,its effect is only localized and that too short lived.
my contention are based on internet resources ,sites affliated to GOI .

but if some one proves that fiat Money is in vogue for centuries before then i accept im wrong and quit

Are you saying that paper money=fiat money? That is not true.
Paper money at one time was linked to the gold reserve.
Coins representing money is as old as the civilization. So there was money in the antiquity.

coin : Origins of coins -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

In both the East and the West, coinage proper was preceded by more primitive currencies, nonmonetary or semi-monetary, which survived into the historic age of true coins, and may have derived originally from the barter of cattle, implements, and the like. The earliest currency of China of the 8th century bc consisted of miniature hoes and billhooks (pruning implements), with inscriptions indicating the authority. The small bronze celts (prehistoric tools resembling chisels) and bronze rings frequently found in hoards in western Europe probably played a monetary role. Even in modern times such mediums of exchange as fishhook currency have been known.

coin -- Britannica Online Encyclopedia

The use of cast-metal pieces as a medium of exchange is very ancient and probably developed out of the use in commerce of ordinary ingots of bronze and other metals that possessed an intrinsic value. Until the development of bills of exchange in medieval Europe and paper currency in medieval China, metal coins were the only such medium.

In addition your method of "barter" only is impractical. Nobody stops you from bartering in addition to other means of trade.
It is commonly used in all countries as long as parties agree to it.

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear HRHK

Your post # 88

I think I know why members are not talking about money. People are probably busy 'making' money
just like people 'make' love, and don't keep talking about it.

Guruvethunai
Yay Yem

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

prasad ji
coins cannot be made infinitely like paper money. that too with yesteryear technologies. shastra also accepted metal coins to that extent as government cannot over produce it.
fiat money had no intrinsic value and by law and decree govt force us to accept paper.
all this I've covered in my earlier post.
by and large trade just before mid 1800s is thru barter and metals only.
agriculture is the major wealth source.it supported many industries , arts and architecture .

fiat money is pseudo wealth not real wealth. it tilts the power balance in favor of governing community so much so that they really don't care about anything .
ill discuss how much villages suffered due to this monetary system later .

manohar ji

will there not be one soul in Brahmin community to think broad enough to dicuss on this adharma.

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear HRHK

Your post #91

Whether something is GOOD and something else EVIL,
Whether something is a SIN and something else a VIRTUE,
Whether something is RIGHT and something else WRONG,
Whether something is WHITE and something else is BLACK.
Whether something is DHARMA and something else is ADHARMA,

It's all upto one's circumstance and perception.

I, for one will not consider anything from a 'Judgemental' frame of mind and live
an " Opinionated " life .

Wish you "Happy Talking" - about money. And if you 'make' some money on the way, please
pass on some to me - I could use it.

Yay Yem

 

[prasad1]

Dear HRHK

Your post #91

Whether something is GOOD and something else EVIL,
Whether something is a SIN and something else a VIRTUE,
Whether something is RIGHT and something else WRONG,
Whether something is WHITE and something else is BLACK.
Whether something is DHARMA and something else is ADHARMA,

It's all upto one's circumstance and perception.

I, for one will not consider anything from a 'Judgemental' frame of mind and live
an " Opinionated " life .

Wish you "Happy Talking" - about money. And if you 'make' some money on the way, please
pass on some to me - I could use it.

Yay Yem

When we make money we do not talk bad about it.
Except the political/religious leaders, they talk of money corrupting but do not mind minting it at the same time.

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

Manohar Ji,

I don't want to break your principles...

But sounds too hollow to me, when one lives a worldly life one got to be judgemental , i don't think one can live without opinions. (not you - as I saw many strong opinions from many of your posts)

Anyway you please live on your principles....I'll wait for some noble souls.

Prasad ji.

I'm not talking bad about money... I'm talking bad about a completely lop sided monetary system which did unrecoverable damages to natural orders. We think we are benefitted by this but in the long run it is only harming us.

 

[prasad1]

Manohar Ji,

I don't want to break your principles...

But sounds too hollow to me, when one lives a worldly life one got to be judgemental , i don't think one can live without opinions. (not you - as I saw many strong opinions from many of your posts)

Anyway you please live on your principles....I'll wait for some noble souls.

Prasad ji.

I'm not talking bad about money... I'm talking bad about a completely lop sided monetary system which did unrecoverable damages to natural orders. We think we are benefitted by this but in the long run it is only harming us.

Yes I have strong opinions and express it in my post, Guilty as charged.
I never said you were talking bad about money. My post#93 was not directed at you, I was agreeing with Mr. Anand Manohar ji's comment. I specifically meant Guruji's and MLA's living luxurious life, at the same time hide behind Khadi or Geruha Garbe. I did not think you fit that mold.

What are you talking about:

I don't want to break your principles...

I did not understand that comment.

When I want to be personal I am not shy, I say it so.

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

prasad ji

im addressing manoharji too, not to you.
noted on your opinion about " bad money ..."

 

[guruvayurappan]

post 28 #
dear AM !
your post reminds me the song
காசேதான் கடவுளப்பா !
அந்த கடவுளுக்கும் அது தெரியும் அப்பா !!
கை விட்டு கை மாறும் பணமே !அதை கை பற்ற நினைக்குது மனமே !
guruvayurappan

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

1 governing community leaders are elected by commoners.
in India commoner erred selecting good governing communities.
resulting leadership crisis .

India is also a very densely populated country with hungry eyes looking for opportunity to cut corners and with lack of leadership it presented a good platform for them .

governing community with corrupt leaders began to over print money to satisfy there hunger . since there is no checks and balance it becomes easy for them.

these are the reasons why we are more corrupt with fiat money system than others

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

in the movie "iru kodugal" this puzzle will be asked, a line will be drawn on a black board and a question will be asked ...how make a line drawn small without touching or erasing it....the answer is to draw a bigger line close to it. this Tamil say iru kodugal tattvam .

this analogy we can apply to agriculture wealth to fiat money weath. it dwarfed the wealth of agriculture.

another way to apply this tattvam is how politicians gets wealth without looting anybody

very handy tattvam