Marriage Is it a dying institute?

[prasad1]

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According to Wilipedia
"Marriage (or wedlock) is a social union or legal contract between people that creates kinship. It is an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged in a variety of ways, depending on the culture or subculture in which it is found. Such a union, often formalized via a wedding ceremony, may also be called matrimony."

"Marriage is usually recognized by the state, a religious authority, or both. It is often viewed as a contract. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution irrespective of religious affiliation, in accordance with marriage laws of the jurisdiction."

It is used for legal purpose in cases of assets, liability, benefits, and custody of children.

According to yamaka post#14
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/7739-life-peril-need-help-2.html#post112413

Please remember that in the West about 50% of the marriages end in divorce... the rate should be the same or even worse in India - but because of "bogus prestige or culture" the broken marriages are kept "together artificially for too long", although in reality the members (mostly the wife) are crying inside for help, and no one hears those pain and sorrow!!

In light of this and various statistics, Is Marriage still a viable institute? If it is dying, should it be replaced with some other Institute, or just let it die a natural death?

 

[renuka]

According to Wilipedia
"Marriage (or wedlock) is a social union or legal contract between people that creates kinship. It is an institution in which interpersonal relationships, usually intimate and sexual, are acknowledged in a variety of ways, depending on the culture or subculture in which it is found. Such a union, often formalized via a wedding ceremony, may also be called matrimony."

"Marriage is usually recognized by the state, a religious authority, or both. It is often viewed as a contract. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution irrespective of religious affiliation, in accordance with marriage laws of the jurisdiction."

It is used for legal purpose in cases of assets, liability, benefits, and custody of children.

According to yamaka post#14
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/7739-life-peril-need-help-2.html#post112413



In light of this and various statistics, Is Marriage still a viable institute? If it is dying, should it be replaced with some other Institute, or just let it die a natural death?

Frankly speaking what doesnt die finally?
Marriage to a person is only for this life.We would have been married to different individuals from janam to janam and in future lifes only God knows who will be our spouse.

Even all relationships finally cease upon leaving our mortal coil.
Everything looks apparently real but its infact just transient.
So I guess just take life as it comes without being too worried about the outcome.
Take 1 step by the day.

If some want to marry..go ahead..if some want to "live in" let then be happy.
As long the individuals know what they want in life that should suffice.

At the end of the day when we leave this world even the best of spouse wont come along with us.

 

[prasad1]

Frankly speaking what doesnt die finally?
Marriage to a person is only for this life.We would have been married to different individuals from janam to janam and in future lifes only God knows who will be our spouse.

Even all relationships finally cease upon leaving our mortal coil.
Everything looks apparently real but its infact just transient.
So I guess just take life as it comes without being too worried about the outcome.
Take 1 step by the day.

If some want to marry..go ahead..if some want to "live in" let then be happy.
As long the individuals know what they want in life that should suffice.

At the end of the day when we leave this world even the best of spouse wont come along with us.

Remuka,
Please don't go philosophical on this. LOL
I am talking about the institution of Marriage in term of social and legal status of humans in this life.

 

[renuka]

Remuka,
Please don't go philosophical on this. LOL
I am talking about the institution of Marriage in term of social and legal status of humans in this life.

Ok..no problems.
Ok non philosophical answer will be that Marriage will still be in vogue cos its one valid license for the following reasons;

1)To produce progeny which dont carry out of the wed lock tag.
2)To provide legal progeny for carrying out the family name.
3)To provide legal progeny for those who feel that can be bailed out by their children in the after world for reasons best known to them.
4)A legal license to have sex without being called all sorts of names.
5)A secure settlement in case there is a divorce.What would an unmarried live in status give in terms of financial settlement?

 

[Yamaka]

Marriage as a Legal Contract and an Institution will always be there: Because the Society needs to acknowledge a couple as husband and wife for the sake of the children.

This will never change, and should not change.

What could change is how soon people get married, how soon they get divorced, will there be only love marriages in the future, changes in the legal procedures of divorce etc etc.

Many people in the West have said, "I don't want to rush into a marriage; I don't want to marry a person who will be a pain later, I want to go slow on marriage" etc.

So much so, the marriage age is pushed upwards.. and for women the "biological clock" is ticking relentlessly!

What would happen in India? Will arranged marriages be a thing of the past?

Wait & watch.

 

[prasad1]

Out of wedlock kids are common, people even acknowledge it in public. Also there is same sex marriage, which changes the definition of marriage.

In poor families where there is no assets, or pride of family name there is no need for marriage. Please look in the US poor community. The marriage as an institute is vanishing.

 

[Brahmanyan]

In spite of all defects Marriage is the only institution for continuity of family life. Marriage is essentially a social acknowledgement over individuals willing to live as man and wife. It is not just a contract, but a sacrament as well. For the sake of security and legitimacy to the children, our Smrithis acknowledge eight types of Marriages - Brahma, Daiva, Arsha, Prajapatya, Asura, Gandharva, Rakshsa and Pisaka.
Yes, divorces will be there but they cannot drive away the institution of Marriage.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[ozone]

Are the so called Arranged marraiges of today the same as they were a while ago?
I think they are more a Parent Initiated marraige than an arranged one.
In the Arranged case, there used to be some amount of interaction and familiarility between the 2 families either directly or
through some one known which later led to an alliance.
This concept might get revived.

 

[kunjuppu]

i know for sure in canada, if two people cohabit, for 3 contiguous years, they are legally considered 'married' from the viewpoint of rights - ie property, pension, alimony, child support etc. these are treated no way different than those who go through the process of marriage, via registration (must) and religion (optional).

what i have found, is that for the poor, in canada atleast, the cost of a wedding is enough to deter them from undergoing anything. these are also the most uneducated from both high school and skillset, and hence the concept of 'live-in' is fairly common.

then there are out of town single folks, many educated and sophisticated, who simply, for convenience do away with the formalities. even here, at some point or the other, a registration is in vogue.

by and large, the middle class, with roots to the old country, and incidentally with an extended social network, indulge in high spending marriages. italians, portuguese and ukrainians, here in toronto, afaik, indulge in india style huge weddings - except in order to help defray the expenses, the guests give cash gift only - and there is a set rate: minimum would be $100 per guest, and more, if you are a close friend or relative.

indians, have slowly come to demand cash gifts too. probably in light of the erstwhile customs, of recycling unwanted stuff on the cheap

i tend to agree with ozone, that in india, atleast in my circle, arranged marriages are now more 'parent initated marriages' - with the appropriate filtering process in place, and the weeding out taking place, prior to the young couple meeting.

from what i have read in the forum, and what i hear elsewhere, the 'getting to know before saying YES' process, is a little more intense than in my days, where one brief look, and it was a 'yesorno'.

atleast the girls these days, have the option of asking whether the in-laws will be camping with the couple, something that was taken for granted in my days. also, i think, both the boy and girl, have an ultimate 'veto' power now, which was absent 30 years ago, when if the parents thought it was a good match, the girl had no option, but to agree. if she had demurred, the first question would have been 'ஏதாவது லவ்வரே வச்சிண்ட்ருப்பா'.

so, i would say, there is still an immense need to couple, form a household, raise kids and grow old as couple. so i guess, in many form, marriage is still alive, and kicking, with no signs of dying. there are single parent households, usually with the mother at the head, but even here, there is always a search for finding a mate and bonding.

re living in joint family: but increasingly, even in india, the tendency is to form nuclear families. this is sometimes forced by going to the extent, at the insistence of either of the couple, to relocate to another city, giving up a good job, just for the purpose to be away from the inlaws. one thing they have not figured out, even here in canada, is that there is nothing to stop the in laws from following the couple to the new place. as has happened here to a few of my friends

as they age, parents increasingly have the need to be close to their children, i find, across all cultures.

 

[sravna]

If the institution of marriage is let to die it will be an example of how foolishness can harm the society more than even violence. Without marriage the basis of a stable relationship is compromised. Relationships would be formed for less desirable and worthy reasons and would be lot less fulfilling. Of course there is the choice to change your partner but your intention to enter into relationship is to make it work and last. More important is the plight of the children. There would very likely not be proper upbringing given that one or both the parents may be missing. This has diabolical implications as these kids make up the future society. So the effects are not just personal but has larger ramifications.

 

[kunjuppu]

sravana,

a good marriage turns out to be a happy family. in most cases. bad marriages, can be disastrous to the kids.

if you read my post, one does not have to necessarily go through ceremonies, to be in a 'married state'.

in cases of disastrous couplings, i think, it is better to cut the losses, and call it quits. and maybe try a second time. instead of wallowing in the misery.

 

[sravna]

Sorry if what I say may hurt some people but the present generation has a skewed perspective of many issues and very regretably
adamant in holding on to them. For example, the emphasis is too much on freedom even at the expense of discretion. Individual freedom is necessary but even if you are denied you suffer only till you are denied that freedom but if you are pampered and corrupted the effect is much more harmful. And a corrupted man can corrupt others too. Our culture erred on the side of caution as far as freedom is concerned whereas the modern world has been too lax with freedom.

 

[prasad1]

Marriage vows:
" I(Bride/Groom), take you (Groom/Bride), to be my (wife/husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish; from this day forward until death do us part. "




At least should be modified.
There will be civil contracts, but should it be called marriage? That is debatable at least here in western world. The poor and super rich are living togather, having children etc without marriage.

 

[nachi naga]

western countries have more bastards kids than i was aware of it while in india.marriage as an institution is soon an extinct arrangement in west.india with its roots of culture may have it as institution for long time.

 

[sarang]

Perhaps a refined definition for arranged marriage is 'marriage initiated by any one - parents, friends, wards, the marrying boy or girl which gets the approval of both the boy's and girl's families, and leads to the marriage ceremony.'

In the last ten years at least 60% of the marriages have been initiated by the boy/girl who knew each other, have studied together (roughly same age) or worked together. There was no opposition from the parents as the couple are from a similar background in social and community norms.

Are the so called Arranged marraiges of today the same as they were a while ago?
I think they are more a Parent Initiated marraige than an arranged one.
In the Arranged case, there used to be some amount of interaction and familiarility between the 2 families either directly or
through some one known which later led to an alliance.
This concept might get revived.

 

[ozone]

Every interaction that culminates into a marraige will have to be initiated. So wouldnt putting all of them into the category of arragement dilute it? Anyway,the point I was making out of Arranged marraiges was that some one - usually more elder than the boy/girl would take the initiative to find a spouse for them.
Today parents have very less access to the pool of bride or bridegrooms and rely on others for references. Additionally, since most marraiges happen late and with the time ticking, their children's find turns to be the best. If parents find their unstated preferences atleast the most critical ones fitting in the selection they are thrilled - or rather relieved.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Are the so called Arranged marraiges of today the same as they were a while ago?
I think they are more a Parent Initiated marraige than an arranged one.
In the Arranged case, there used to be some amount of interaction and familiarility between the 2 families either directly or
through some one known which later led to an alliance.
This concept might get revived.

No. Arranged marriages of today is not the same of the past era. In olden days marriages were arranged by Parents when their children were young. Prior to my generation, marriages were conducted before the age of puberty. Parents were more concerned about the family background and horoscope agreement, than other things. Finding a suitable boy or girl done while attending a wedding of a relative or friend.

Usually, unlike today, marriage are conducted as a family affair.
Times are changing,

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[ozone]

western countries have more bastards kids than i was aware of it while in india.marriage as an institution is soon an extinct arrangement in west.india with its roots of culture may have it as institution for long time.

only if the west dont berate it and make it a taboo... since we are increasingly being influenced by those forces

 

[renuka]

When I read this:" I(Bride/Groom), take you (Groom/Bride), to be my (wife/husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish; from this day forward until death do us part. "

I always feel its should be modified on technical grounds cos it does say Until Death Do Us Part.Thats the dangerous part.
So that means we can hasten the death of the partner by some unnatural means too isnt it?

May be it should read as :" I(Bride/Groom), take you (Groom/Bride), to be my (wife/husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish; from this day forward until death which is not caused by either one of us through unnatural means.. do us part. "

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Even now in South India, basically follow the arranged marriage procedure. As arranged marriage
practice is being adopted, someone other than the Couple getting married makes the selection of
the persons to be wed initially. In some families, only when the horoscope tally/match
etc is finalized, the boy or girl gets an opportunity to meet each other to know themselves. There
are places in some parts, where time has not moved forward. Above all, dowry system is still
in place, it has rather become more of a "bride-price" tag. These things affect some of the girls.
Hence now-a-days, because of many girls have started going for work as contrast
to yester years, marriages formed out of love AKA "love marriages" take place. In some places
the girls start looking for a person who would be suitable to them and give the suggestion to the
parents to go in for finalization. These could be seen easily by everyone of late.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

I think the vow should be read in its entirety. One who takes vow to love his/her partner in good and bad times will not try to hasten the death of the partner!

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

I think the vow should be read in its entirety. One who takes vow to love his/her partner in good and bad times will not try to hasten the death of the partner!

I agree but I was just being playing safe on technical grounds cos some people might love someone deep enough to even want them dead.
Believe me there are enough weird minds.

 

[renuka]

Come to think of it Marriage is indeed a dying institute.

Those who are unmarried are DYING to get INTO it and those who are married are DYING to get OUT of it.

 

[zebra16]

Come to think of it Marriage is indeed a dying institute.

Those who are unmarried are DYING to get INTO it and those who are married are DYING to get OUT of it.

ultimately everyone dies, isn't it?

 

[prasad1]

I agree but I was just being playing safe on technical grounds cos some people might love someone deep enough to even want them dead.
Believe me there are enough weird minds.

Hey-hey You are funny, or should I say you know weird people.
The vows should say until "death or divorce".

A friend of mine recently married his live in girl friend of 10 years. Their children were the flower girl at their wedding. I asked him why they decided to get married? They wanted to baptize their children, and the priest told them to get married in church. Some explanation!!!