Matrimonials , Vegetarianism and future

[renuka]

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All women of this forum , esp. Dr. Renuka are friends .

So Sweeeeeeeet..........

 

[renuka]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and beliefs but not to their own facts.

There is no scientific basis and certainly nothing established for a 'Tamil Brahmin' DNA except in the imaginations of a few in this forum.

There is no support for such thinking in our 'knowledge scriptures' either.

Mind is considered subtle and body/DNA is considered gross. Gross never controls the subtle in nature.

Some love to put the cart in front of the horse and have fun!
Vegetarianism is but one non-negotiable criteria for some people but it is not the only criteria.

But I seriously doubt if the mind set of a TB would match a mind set of a Gujarati.

Gujaratis are very transaction minded and materialistic to a great extent even though they might adhere to some amount of religious practices and tradition.

But at the back of the mind its always a very "Vaishya" mind set.

I am not dragging in caste here..but when I use the word Vaishya mindset I am talking about transaction,business,money and the emphasis on gain.

From what I gather TBs have a different mindset that no matter what or how they might present their opinions..they are still very subtle and traditional in their hearts with a inclination for ritualistic and spiritual practices with less emphasis on material.

So how on earth would a Gujarati TB alliance ever function well..its like AharNisham...Night and Day.

Being vegetarian does not change a person's core values..its just a dietary preference.

 

[tbs]

But I seriously doubt if the mind set of a TB would match a mind set of a Gujarati.

Gujaratis are very transaction minded and materialistic to a great extent even though they might adhere to some amount of religious practices and tradition.

But at the back of the mind its always a very "Vaishya" mind set.

I am not dragging in caste here..but when I use the word Vaishya mindset I am talking about transaction,business,money and the emphasis on gain.

From what I gather TBs have a different mindset that no matter what or how they might present their opinions..they are still very subtle and traditional in their hearts with a inclination for ritualistic and spiritual practices with less emphasis on material.

So how on earth would a Gujarati TB alliance ever function well..its like AharNisham...Night and Day.

Being vegetarian does not change a person's core values..its just a dietary preference.

hi

im going to attend a iyengar typical TB GAL marrying a GUJJU BOY in USA.........i agreed with u..lah

 

[krish44]

But some of these Gujratis or Jains might not have the Tamil Brahmin DNA?

I personally feel its more important to marry within the same genetic make up..cos the substratum of the mind is similar.

Its not easy adjusting with a person who is from a total different community the only uniting factor being a vegetarian.

A cow is a herbivore ..a goat too is a herbivore...but can they consider themselves one?

Q uestion -Among TBS,Gujus and Jains who would appropriately be classified as Cow,goat like . Who would be loser if they inter marry?

 

[renuka]

Q uestion -Among TBS,Gujus and Jains who would appropriately be classified as Cow,goat like . Who would be loser if they inter marry?

It does not really matter who is the cow or goat here..the fact is the Gujju will own the whole herd of cows and goats and milk them and become rich!LOL

 

[tks]

i would like to know the source of this authoritative assertion. Please quote.

On the contrary I have several times quoted in this forum the scientific papers from which I get the following perception:

1. Due to environmental impact the genes undergo substantial permanent changes.(I have deleberately avoided scientific terms here to make it sound simple) Brahmins living in a certain environment (food habits, culture, ahimsa etc., etc.,) are subjected to this silent change (mutation?) in their genetic make up. For that matter, every social community undergoes this influence on their genes in different ways depending on the environment in which they live for thousands of years.

2. These changes are involuntary and are like a given situation. They can not be escaped as long as the environment is there and the gene is there in that environment.

So a TB DNA is certainly a possibility in TN in India just as a Slav DNA is a possibility in the Urals of Russia and a Nordic DNA in Sweden. I do not know whether knowledge scriptures have this info or not. I may have to make an involved search.

Yes, subtle can control the gross. DNA is finite and gross and environment is subtle and it controls and transforms/mutates the genes transcending the physical barriers and limitations. Let us understand this.

I would like to hear a serious (not a sarcastic one) refutation of my this perception. If people need references I can give again for the Nth time.

No need for giving the same set of references for the Nth time, rather the need is to just perceive what was said earlier for the first time.

In my world, there is a high bar to declare something to be having a scientific basis. The request earlier was to publish the finding in a peer reviewed and well regarded journal. Then one can claim that a scientific hypothesis has been put forth for comments.

If scientific basis for this conjecture is removed from the claim of assertions then it is possible to have a discussion in a forum like this where many others have put forth their own theories on variety of topics such as 'karmic field theory', 'spirituality theory' and 'word salad theory using words from Purana and Science' etc. In comparison to these other theories , this conjecture has more merit in my view.

When one puts forward a conjecture, the onus is on that individual to prove the claims.

Having said this, it is entirely possible (and the key word is 'possible') for the environment to have an impact on a given generation of people. To show that a given set of environmental factors alone in the midst of myriads of other factors having an impact on DNA is not easy to prove.

Yes indeed, that subtle factors like environment can possibly impact the gross aspects like DNA. A person born in a given family could have higher likelihood for certain attributes due to their genes and the person's life is also impacted by many social variables. It is hard to separate what is contributing to what that makes any definitive claims to be not possible. Though there are few studies on culture and its impact on DNA, the interpretation of the results cannot be translated to support any conjecture in any another environment.

The other issue is in taking this conjecture to far reaching conclusions for recommendation of actions.

Let me quote from a recent reference written for laymen people.

"Exploration of the genome has shown that all humans, whatever their race, share the same set of genes. Each gene exists in a variety of alternative forms known as alleles, so one might suppose that races have distinguishing alleles, but even this is not the case. A few alleles have highly skewed distributions but these do not suffice to explain the difference between races. The difference between races seems to rest on the subtle matter of relative allele frequencies. The overwhelming verdict of the genome is to declare the basic unity of humankind."

http://time.com/91081/what-science-says-about-race-and-genetics/

 

[tks]

But I seriously doubt if the mind set of a TB would match a mind set of a Gujarati.

Gujaratis are very transaction minded and materialistic to a great extent even though they might adhere to some amount of religious practices and tradition.

But at the back of the mind its always a very "Vaishya" mind set.

I am not dragging in caste here..but when I use the word Vaishya mindset I am talking about transaction,business,money and the emphasis on gain.

From what I gather TBs have a different mindset that no matter what or how they might present their opinions..they are still very subtle and traditional in their hearts with a inclination for ritualistic and spiritual practices with less emphasis on material.

So how on earth would a Gujarati TB alliance ever function well..its like AharNisham...Night and Day.

Being vegetarian does not change a person's core values..its just a dietary preference.

Donald Trump claimed that a US District Judge who has a Mexican heritage cannot provide an impartial verdict. This was described as a text book definition of racism.

The above comments about Gujarathi's and others are in similar spirit.

There are millions of people who hail from the state of Gujarath. Not all are business people. In fact they have contributions to every walk of life.

Satvic people are found in every culture around the world. People with Rakshasa and Asura tendencies are found in every culture as well including among those carrying the TB tag.

 

[prasad1]

Donald Trump claimed that a US District Judge who has a Mexican heritage cannot provide an impartial verdict. This was described as a text book definition of racism.

The above comments about Gujarathi's and others are in similar spirit.

There are millions of people who hail from the state of Gujarath. Not all are business people. In fact they have contributions to every walk of life.

Satvic people are found in every culture around the world. People with Rakshasa and Asura tendencies are found in every culture as well including among those carrying the TB tag.

Yes i agree with your post.

 

[renuka]

Donald Trump claimed that a US District Judge who has a Mexican heritage cannot provide an impartial verdict. This was described as a text book definition of racism.

The above comments about Gujarathi's and others are in similar spirit.

There are millions of people who hail from the state of Gujarath. Not all are business people. In fact they have contributions to every walk of life.

Satvic people are found in every culture around the world. People with Rakshasa and Asura tendencies are found in every culture as well including among those carrying the TB tag.

I feel there are hardly anyone in this world who is truly Sattvic in the true sense..its just not possible for anyone to be only made up of one Guna.

Everyone is a conglomerate of Gunas in varying proportions which surfaces from time to time depending on intrinsic and extrinsic factors.

I do not feel my view is racists cos I was merely stating my observation..usage of the word Vaishya mindset too is not an insult cos the word Vaishya is an accepted terminology with regards to the ability to excel in commerce.

BTW just to add at times when we try to be too politically correct we are just doing injustice to ourselves cos we are in state of denial and the glaring truth might totally be obscured.

BTW I am wondering why the acute affinity with the Gujarati clan?

After all if vegetarianism is the criteria, there are even Shaiva Pillais from TN who are veg..shouldnt a South Indian alliance be preferred at least becos of the same language ....cos even the Gujarati person might be a non brahmin....why no talk about Shaiva Pillai and TB alliances?

I am starting to wonder if anyone near and dear to you likes a person from Dandiya land cos we humans subconsciously recommend what we are exposed to for others for an indirect acceptance .. ....just a thought..I could be wrong.
If my comment is too personal..I apologize in advance.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

This is how how our culture gets dissipated! After two generations there will be no TB left of such offspring...How many of them are going to bring up their progeny in TN? It would be a rarity!!

Prospective TB boys for marriage, particularly Iyers, should look for girls from other communities, especially from closely-held and community-centric to change the routine. Marriage between close relatives and from the same district or area must be stopped.

Without proper support, some popular firms promoted by Iyers vanished - Standard Motors, Enfield, Gemini Studios etc.

 

[vgane]

Prospective TB boys for marriage, particularly Iyers, should look for girls from other communities, especially from closely-held and community-centric to change the routine. Marriage between close relatives and from the same district or area must be stopped.

Without proper support, some popular firms promoted by Iyers vanished - Standard Motors, Enfield, Gemini Studios etc.

For sake of business should we marry inter caste! That's a stupid argument!! I think you seem to be against the concept of of TB culture??!!!

 

[krish44]

I feel there are hardly anyone in this world who is truly Sattvic in the true sense..its just not possible for anyone to be only made up of one Guna.

Everyone is a conglomerate of Gunas in varying proportions which surfaces from time to time depending on intrinsic and extrinsic factors.

I do not feel my view is racists cos I was merely stating my observation..usage of the word Vaishya mindset too is not an insult cos the word Vaishya is an accepted terminology with regards to the ability to excel in commerce.

BTW just to add at times when we try to be too politically correct we are just doing injustice to ourselves cos we are in state of denial and the glaring truth might totally be obscured.

BTW I am wondering why the acute affinity with the Gujarati clan?

After all if vegetarianism is the criteria, there are even Shaiva Pillais from TN who are veg..shouldnt a South Indian alliance be preferred at least becos of the same language ....cos even the Gujarati person might be a non brahmin....why no talk about Shaiva Pillai and TB alliances?

I am starting to wonder if anyone near and dear to you likes a person from Dandiya land cos we humans subconsciously recommend what we are exposed to for others for an indirect acceptance .. ....just a thought..I could be wrong.
If my comment is too personal..I apologize in advance.

I am all for TB ,shaiva pillai alliances..

Last week I attended a marriage in chennai -tamil iyer boy marrying a mudaliar girl.

Girl is vegetarian, well educated[Post graduate],satisfies most of criterion laid down by TKS ji.

The girl married a boy with a broken engagement behind him.{ an iyer girl discovered after engagement that they were mismatched]

The mudaliar girl knew the boy earlier and was junior to him by couple of years in school.She was more open minded than girls in iyer community.

The girls family is well off.It was a grand wedding in one of the large halls in chennai with about a thousand attending the wedding.

The boy is son of a very close friend of mine.

Felt that it was a nice match.

 

[tks]

I feel there are hardly anyone in this world who is truly Sattvic in the true sense..its just not possible for anyone to be only made up of one Guna.

Everyone is a conglomerate of Gunas in varying proportions which surfaces from time to time depending on intrinsic and extrinsic factors.

I do not feel my view is racists cos I was merely stating my observation..usage of the word Vaishya mindset too is not an insult cos the word Vaishya is an accepted terminology with regards to the ability to excel in commerce.

BTW just to add at times when we try to be too politically correct we are just doing injustice to ourselves cos we are in state of denial and the glaring truth might totally be obscured.

BTW I am wondering why the acute affinity with the Gujarati clan?

After all if vegetarianism is the criteria, there are even Shaiva Pillais from TN who are veg..shouldnt a South Indian alliance be preferred at least becos of the same language ....cos even the Gujarati person might be a non brahmin....why no talk about Shaiva Pillai and TB alliances?

I am starting to wonder if anyone near and dear to you likes a person from Dandiya land cos we humans subconsciously recommend what we are exposed to for others for an indirect acceptance .. ....just a thought..I could be wrong.
If my comment is too personal..I apologize in advance.

When we say a person is Satvic , it means the person is primarily Satvic. People who know this word , know that everyone has aspects of all three Gunas.


Vaishya mindset as an expression is not an insult. But *generalization of any group across the board* for character traits is racist and casteist thinking.


Please read the context in which I suggested Gujarathis and Jains which was while referring to the map of India showing distribution of vegetarians.


Saiva Pillai or whatever caste that exist is fine too for an alliance *beyond some age*. The key criteria is mutually evaluated compatibility and good character traits.


In USA we do not ask one's caste other than know that a person hails from India.


If one is consumed by a worldview that always divides people in terms of their ehnicity, caste, race, etc then they will surely miss seeing them as human beings regardless of what they may claim.


It is like Donald Trump crying out that Latinos love him and that he is not a racist while insulting them with his words.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

For sake of business should we marry inter caste! That's a stupid argument!! I think you seem to be against the concept of of TB culture??!!!

You have not read it properly. It is not only business purpose for everything. Even take the case of business; why some of the famous business establishments collapsed; it is due to lack of understanding within the community. If a Marwari, Jain or Baniya is in distress, the respective community will definitely come forward to help. It is totally lacking among Iyers. Iyers are conditioned by so many allegiance: like Mutt, sub sect, district, state etc.

What is TB culture? Is it uniform?

 

[Vaagmi]

My reply in blue to post #31:

1)No need for giving the same set of references for the Nth time, rather the need is to just perceive what was said earlier for the first time.

It was just an offer for someone who might have missed the earliers posts where the references were given. Yes I look for the perception still.

2)In my world, there is a high bar to declare something to be having a scientific basis. The request earlier was to publish the finding in a peer reviewed and well regarded journal. Then one can claim that a scientific hypothesis has been put forth for comments.

The original paper (which I am not referring to as it would be for the Nth time), was well published and peer reviewed.

3)If scientific basis for this conjecture is removed from the claim of assertions then it is possible to have a discussion in a forum like this where many others have put forth their own theories on variety of topics such as 'karmic field theory', 'spirituality theory' and 'word salad theory using words from Purana and Science' etc. In comparison to these other theories , this conjecture has more merit in my view.

My perception arises from a scientific basis (a well published subject in a scientific magazine/journal). I do not understand as to why a discussion can not be had on a matter that has a scientific basis. Is this forum meant only for discussion of half-understood or misunderstood ideas from so called knowledge scriptures?

4)When one puts forward a conjecture, the onus is on that individual to prove the claims.
Having said this, it is entirely possible (and the key word is 'possible') for the environment to have an impact on a given generation of people. To show that a given set of environmental factors alone in the midst of myriads of other factors having an impact on DNA is not easy to prove.

It is not a conjecture that is presented here. It is a perception which arises from a well proved findings by a scientist. The admission that it is "possible" is perhaps thought of as a concession. It is not. While the "myriad"s influence on the genes is not yet proved, the impact of environt has been proved and that makes all the difference for the discussion at hand.

5)Yes indeed, that subtle factors like environment can possibly impact the gross aspects like DNA. A person born in a given family could have higher likelihood for certain attributes due to their genes and the person's life is also impacted by many social variables. It is hard to separate what is contributing to what that makes any definitive claims to be not possible. Though there are few studies on culture and its impact on DNA, the interpretation of the results cannot be translated to support any conjecture in any another environment.

Again the half hearted admission with a "possible" while the quoted scientific paper has proved beyond any doubt that the impact is real. Please read the original paper carefully again and tell us why it can not be interpreted the way it is perceived here. It is not right to say that there are "few studies" on culture and its impact. There are indeed a few studies
and the paper under reference is one among them. If environment is not part of the so called culture what else is?

6)The other issue is in taking this conjecture to far reaching conclusions for recommendation of actions.

No action is recommended. Actions usually follow perceptions automatically for self preservation.

7)Let me quote from a recent reference written for laymen people.
"Exploration of the genome has shown that all humans, whatever their race, share the same set of genes. Each gene exists in a variety of alternative forms known as alleles, so one might suppose that races have distinguishing alleles, but even this is not the case. A few alleles have highly skewed distributions but these do not suffice to explain the difference between races. The difference between races seems to rest on the subtle matter of relative allele frequencies. The overwhelming verdict of the genome is to declare the basic unity of humankind."

In so many words what is said is just this that humans are only humans and not any other species. It can be called expansively as unity of humankind. Then there is basic unity of monkeykind, catkind, donkeykind etc., etc., too. So what?

 

[tks]

My reply in blue to post #31:

My intent is not to debate a published paper of a finding in a given context. Applicability, translation and extrapolation to make claims and reach conclusions to suit one's perceptions and beliefs is the issue I have raised. There is no scientific basis established for the claim that genes of Jaathi Brahmanas need to be preserved via marriage for the betterment of the world.

Scientific debates of scientific findings are best debated in reputed science journals. Hence the request to get the claims published.

 

[indianassault]

I wanted to share a statistics that I came across recently. Then there are other informal statistics which are not scientific but based on experience of a few.

1. There is an image depicting ratio of Vegetarians and Non-vegetarians in India. It appeared in the June 12, 2016 edition of Indian express

Here is the link

http://epaper.newindianexpress.com/838506/The-New-Indian-Express-Chennai/12062016#page/1/1

Are the stats believable?? Only 2% of Tamil Nadu people are vegetarians?

2. Informal and non-scientific statistics of looking at matrimonials - I find more vegetarian from the northern part of India which sort of correlates with the Indian Express statistics

3. Many TB I know have 'become' non-veg in India and certainly in USA There is a fascination with becoming nonvegetarians it seems.

4. Two of our Sastrigals (trained in proper Gurukula setting in India for many years and now living in USA) told me that one out of 10 marriages they conduct are cross race/ cross cultures etc. They say TB to TB marriages are rare and to find both of them to be vegetarians is even rarer. Again this is just a data point of recent experience.

From a practical stand point, children born outside India and raised in a TB culture is rare. They have a tough time finding suitable alliances if they are looking for

a. Raised in TB household (cultural aspects)
b. Vegetarians
c. Not superstitious saddled with horoscope mandates
d. Broad minded
e. Responsible and trustworthy
f. Non drinkers
g. Born in the country of their birth

If one is able to settle for four of seven, it is easy to find alliances.

I find many TB boys and girls now in their early 30s who are unable to find anyone. My suggestions for them is to drop items a, f and g as requirements for starters.

Most of all I was surprised at the statistics quoted in the edition of Indian Express

Comments?

Probably TB women shoul start conversion moveet outside India, asI see many white men arrying Indan women ad they appar in white and hite n temples.

 

[tbs]

Probably TB women shoul start conversion moveet outside India, asI see many white men arrying Indan women ad they appar in white and hite n temples.

hi

even many white students are joing in HINDU STUDENTS ASSOCIATION program in colleges to attract indian gals....especially

south indian TB GALS....

 

[GANESH65]

Don't know much about what's happening out side India, but in our neighborhood in Mathura near Delhi, there are foreigners getting attracted to Hinduism through movements like Hare Rama Hare Krishna, and ISCON etc. Plenty of conversions taking place there. People are also leading quite a simple life there. You can spot many dhoti clad white skins roaming around on bare foot in Mathura. They also take a good part in promotion of Hinduism.

 

[biswa]

hi

even many white students are joing in HINDU STUDENTS ASSOCIATION program in colleges to attract indian gals....especially

south indian TB GALS....

Are you sure it is white men capturing "south indian TB GALS" or TB gals trying to capture white men?

After all white men have the best of all choices no? White, black, asian, mexican, north Indian, south Indian everything is available. Or are the white men also waging love jihad like the Muslims, Christians, Dalits mentioned in this forum?

 

[tbs]

Are you sure it is white men capturing "south indian TB GALS" or TB gals trying to capture white men?

After all white men have the best of all choices no? White, black, asian, mexican, north Indian, south Indian everything is available. Or are the white men also waging love jihad like the Muslims, Christians, Dalits mentioned in this forum?

hi

may be both....becoz both are pretending to be SUPER SMART.....may be correct?....may be wrong..