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More conversions!

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Kamakshi's response

Dear Kamakshi:

Hold on, there! While I shouldn't be speaking for Sri KRS, I feel that Sri KRS is definitely not advocating anything against Hinduism; if at all, I believe he is a staunch Hindu first, then a Brahmin.
Getting back to your statement that the 'four varnas were created by Lord Krishna', it is incredulous to think that the Lord would favor only four varnas and not others! We all are God's children and it is my firm belief that God DID NOT create varnas, religions, castes, or creed. They are all man-made. Having said all that, I believe in the Hinduism way of life; not in its dogmas but in its philosophical approach. I am not smart enough to write more on Hinduism!!



Kamakshi said:
My question is:

Does Sri KRS believe that the four varnas created by Sri Krishna should be abolished in which case I do have to know as to what would be the difference between Hinduism and other religions according to him?

He always seem to maintain that all religions believe in one God and therefore does he really think that it is just an option for one like you and me to belong to Hinduism and it would make no difference it we belonged to any other religion?

I think Sri Ranganathan should answer Sri KRS only after a clear answer to the above questions are given. The reason is because Sri Sri Ranganathan might give it from the stand point of a Hindu and Sri KRS would be treating it not from the Hindu angle but from other religious or secular view. Here the playing field is not level.

My 2 cents.
Click to expand...
 
Dear Sri Silverfox Ji,

A 'Jathi Brahmin', in my definition would be most of us, who are anything but Brahmins except for our birth and lineage. We have abandoned the Varna Dharma prescrobed in our scriptures long ago.

To answer Srimathi Kamakshi Ji:

Let me quote my family Guru, the Maha Periaval, in 'Hindu Dharma':

"All religions have one common ideal, worship of the Lord, and all of them proclaim that there is but one God. This one God accepts your devotion irrespective of the manner of your worship, whether it is according to this or that religion. So there is no need to abandon the religion of your birth and embrace another.

The temple, the church, the mosque, the vihara may be different from one another. The idol or the symbol in them may not also be the same and the rites performed in them may be different. But the Paramatman who wants to grace the worshipper, whatever be his faith, is the same. The different religions have taken shape according to the customs peculiar to the countries in which they originated and according to the differences in the mental outlook of the people inhabiting them. The goal of all religions is to lead people to the same Paramatman according to the different attributes of the devotees concerned. So there is no need for people to change over to another faith. Converts demean not only the religion of their birth but also the one to which they convert. Indeed they do demean God."

This captures my own thinking about God and other religions. My questions, and I assure Sri N. R, Ranganathan Ji, are only from my religion's - Hinduism's - point of view, and not the least from any other points of view as Srimathi Kamakshi Ji alleges above.

I do not know from where she gets all these inferences about me - again she is too willing to categorize without any evidences about my thinking. If she wants to make such allegations, it would do her well to quote or cite any writings from myself to illustrate her point. Otherwise her mis-informed allegations just do not contribute positively to the discussions at hand.

Pranams,
KRS

 
More conversions

Dear friends,

I do not prejudge anyone. Since Sri KRS himself acknowledges Sri Maha
Periyaval as his Guru, where is the need to imagine something other than
what he really is. Even otherwise it is good to have meaningful discussions
and that too with someone who has views contrary to ours. Bertrand
Russel says that you can fortify your arguments only if you know the other
side , say, for instance if anyone advocates violence he should hear
Gandhiji's views or arguments against it.

I will come back with my reply and let me say that my reply will be based
on the arguments advanced by Periyaval in Deivathin Kural, Part 1 and Part 2 and Sri Adi Sankara's commentary on 'Srimad Bhagavat Gita '. Please give me
sometime as I have some urgent work of editing a spiritual journal to be
attended to within a time frame.

I sincerely apologise for the delay.
 
Dear Sri N. R. Ranganathan Ji,

Thank you for agreeing to reply to my questions, as well as for the reading material. I have gone through 'Hindu Dharma' several times over the last few years, but I will go over the chapters you have outlined again.

Thank you also for the civilized tone of your voice.

Pranams,
KRS
 
Dear Shri N.R. Ranganathan:
Thank you for providing these links. I am going thru all the different topics; however, the one titled "Who is Responsible for the Decay of Varna Dharma?" is one of the most powerful and thoughtful analysis on the downfall of Brahmins.
Thank you for your outstanding services to our community.



N.R.Ranganathan said:
Dear Sri KRS,

Sir, in the meantime, you can go through these links, if you have
time and inclination :-
http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part3/chap8.htm
http://www.kamakoti.org/newlayout/t...1/hindu/Varna+Dharma+For+Universal+Well-Being
Thank you sir,
Click to expand...
 
Baley Baley !!

Good to see so many weblinks and arguments all around !
There are so many things in this world learnt by experience !! One can relate the happenings in his life to the philosophy of Karma , devotion, love , ecstasy and so on and so forth !!
My mentor used to say " Throw him into the swim pool " and he will learn " How to swim / survive rather !!
Another good tamil proverb is " Yettu sorakkai , kootukku aagathu !"
i.e Knowledge is not worth a penny if u cannot experience its use in your lifetime !!
As mentioned , earlier , Hinduism is a way of life and people therefore conveniently pass from adolescence to their retirement age , conveniently living the HINDU way of life , without taking the trouble of knowing more about it !
But with some useful weblinks and discussions, the curious learner is benefited immensely !
Thanks to everyone who contributes !
 
It is a fundamental tenet of Christianity that they should spread the message of Jesus. We talk about conversions and money being the sole motive.

One of the main reasons for conversions is the inability of the Hindu society to absorb all classes of people. The caste system is responsible for that. The system is so terrible that it has got into Christianity as well.

Instead of dumping the caste system and saying that "All human beings are born equal", we still talk about Varnashrama.

Another very important factor is the reluctance of the so called caste Hindus to accept the religious practices of the other castes. In what way are Isakki, Madan, and Raja Karuppannaswamy inferior to Shiva or Vishnu. Did you know that Mariamman is mentioned in Devi Mahatmya of Markendaya Purana. Maha Mari swarupaya ...

What is wrong with giving a hen or a goat as sacrifice when as per the Vedic texts Hindus used to offer Animal sacrifices.

What can we do?

Accept all the others as equal and accept their practices. I wonder how many of our Smartha Brahmins have heard the term "Nirguna Brahman" or read Keno Upanishad.

Note: I am not a secularist or whatever they call themselves. I am a Hindu who devotes most of his waking hours in study and contemplation as laid down by the Sasthras.
 
Quote: Nacchinarkiniyan:<<< What is wrong with giving a hen or a goat as sacrifice when as per the Vedic texts Hindus used to offer Animal sacrifices.>>>

Dear Nacchinarkiniyan:
I enjoy your postings and agree with your observations. However, I was shocked to read your support for killing animals as sacrifice! So the Vedic texts said that Hindus used to offer animal sacrifice and Brahmins, too, ate meat. So what? Should we go back to those barbarous times?
I strongly believe that all creatures are God's creation and we have NO right to kill them, least of all, sacrifice them in the name of religion. If at all, we should try to persuade people who sacrifice, to stop that practice.
 
I neither support nor object to animal sacrifices. What I strongly object is the imposition of a set of values on any community.

About killing of animals in general--A majority of Indians eat meat. The sacrifice in temples is conducted in a much more humane way than in any [SIZE=-1]abattoir. [/SIZE]

The number of animals sacrificed has come down drastically in the last decade. In time it may disappear altogether like many old obnoxious religious practices.

Animal sacrifice is a belief. We should not change it by law or force. I have personally known many people from the lower strata of society who give a Goat every year to their Kula Dheivam. They are simple people who have this belief. It is the proof of their Bhakthi.

The children have started objecting to the practice of sacrificing the lamb whom they have brought up so dearly.

I accept their belief not approve it.
 
Nacchinarkiniyan said:
I neither support nor object to animal sacrifices. What I strongly object is the imposition of a set of values on any community.

I accept their belief not approve it.
Click to expand...

Dear Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji,

I, like Sri Silverfox is appreciative of your very informative postings.

But here, you are precisely making a point, if followed, will allow anachronistic practices to continue in any religion.

Mormons of Utah practiced polygamy as a belief, before the U.S. laws prevented that practice to continue today. Child marriages were values of the Hindu society at one time before they were outlawed. So was 'Sathi'.

It can even be argued that Islam is in the straits it is now, precisely because it did not keep up with the times.

Varna Dharma, even though not practiced anymore, still is believed as a value and hence all this Jathi related issues. When one is confronted with issues like these, which go to the strongly held beliefs of a people, the only course is to show the negativity of such practices as applied to today's life. Things will change gradually.

It took Srimad Madhvacharya to outlaw animal sacrifices during rites several generations ago, but it will take the current generation to probably end it, once in for all.

Pranams,
KRS
 
A few points to ponder ......

Does anyone take up eating Non-veg , defying all the practices of his fore-fathers unless he cannot do without it , due to non-availability of veg stuff-- The question of survival ????

What is the Ecological Balance that Science talks about ! If the population of Wild animals multiply and they come over to cities , wouldn't the existence of our human species be endangered ???
Just curious !!
 
You just do not do anything because your fore fathers did that. Ask for references. Read the Dharmasasthras and you may be surprised or shocked. And you will realise how much reformation has been carried out in Hinduism throughout generations. It is an ongoing process.

I remember a conversation with one of my friends who is a top scientist in BARC. I asked him why he does not pray to one of the popular Gods. He replied that he does not because his forefathers have laid down that custom and there must be some reason. The God was his wife's favourite deity.

I have given the above example only to show that many of our intellectuals become blind followers in the case of religion. It is a pity.

I am a vegetarian by choice. I have eaten non-vegetarian food.

You can call me Brahma-Chandala. Do not be surprised. In history there are some dynasties like Pallavas and Senas of Bengal who called themselves Brahma-Kshttriyas. Brahmin by birth and Kshttriya by profession. If I delve into history I am sure I can locate some Brahma-Vaisyas also. Since I was an engineeer by profession, I may be called Brahma-Chandala. I love that.

No hard feeling guys.

Having said that Hindus are great people in that they have not resorted to eating dogs, frogs, etc. etc. even when there were famines.

Stopping animal sacrifices will not make the rest of the world Vegetarian. The number of animals sacrificed in slaughter houses is far far greater than in places of worship. In Hindu temples the number may run to maximum 5000 in a year in the whole of India.
 
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Thank you, vijisesh

I respect your belief. I do not think I have sinned at all. No remorse whatsoever.

I am a Brahma-Chandala because my Father is Smasanavasa and my Mother is Smasanavasinyai.

Yogi's recommendation depends on what sort he is. If he is an Aghori he will recommend something else. :laugh:
 
Smasanavasa is Lord Shiva ( Smanavasa Chithambaresa) who stays in Smasan or cremation ground Smasanavasinyai is Maa KAALI ( Smasanavasinyai Deemahi ...) who again stays in the cremation ground.
 
Vijisesh

My responses in brown.

vijisesh said:
A matter of convenience , my dear sir, Mr.Nacchinarkiniyan

Konna pavam Thinna pogum ! may be ur next idiom for quote !

Justification ! The human Brain is so powerful that you can justify anything and a lie said four times becomes a truth !

Its more easy they say to wake up a person who's asleep than a person who's pretending to be sleeping !

How True !

U may be called a Brahma-chandala , not because you have eaten non-veg but because of the repercussions the animal u have taken will cause to the harmony of your body and soul !

The Brahmins during vedic times supposedly ate the meat of the sacrificed animal. There are stories of sage Agasthya eating meat. Even Ramayana has verses alluding to the fact that Lord Rama ate meat. I dont think it caused issues for those noble souls.

Yogi's always recommend eating fresh things plucked from plants which have life in them like fruits , vegetables etc - Concept being life gives life and rejuvenating energy !
U can witness the feeling of having a glass of fresh juice making u bubble with energy, revitalising u and other hand a piece of meat/ chickengunniya will make u feel as a lump !!

Interesting. Do you mean to say fruits, vegetables etc have life of their own? I thought only plants had life. Even if they had the moment wont they be dead the moment they are plucked from the plant ? BTW, I feel rejuvenated when I eat rice or wheat even when I know it comes from dead plants. For all living beings "Food" provides revitalising energy irrespective of whether it is meat or vegetables. If the energy is not there in meat, all the Lions and Tigers would be climbing up the orange trees instead of running after the deer !

So as you have sinned , i recommend you to use phenol triglyceride to cleanse yourself !! and to change ur attitude at the earliest !
Click to expand...

If eating meat is a sin, then most of our sages and even some gods will be sinners. Evolution as we know tells us that at least the early man did eat meat and then as per your statement we are all descendants of those sinners.

IMHO, eating meat or vegetables is one's personal choice and no one can judge someone else based on that.

Ramki
 
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Howzzzzzzzat

Ramki wrote :

all the Lions and Tigers would be climbing up the orange trees instead of running after the deer !

Ramki,

Could the justification for this be then,

Tiger Biscuits, Lion Honey/Date Syrup, Anil semiya ?

:) :) :)
 
Let me recall some of the things the Tamil Brahmins vehemently objected to in the past.

1. Removal of Kudumi and having cropped hair. This was a subject matter of hot discussion in the early part of 20th century. All the Acharyas declared that the removal of the Kudumi will be the end of the community.

2. Crossing the seas- You lost your caste if you crossed the seas. You had to undergo a purificatory ceremony. If you look at the family annals of some of the early I.C.S officers, you will find that most of the Tamil Brahmins refused to give their daughter in marriage to a person who has crossed the seas. Most of them had to look for brides in cities.

3. The Acharyas objected vigorously to the [SIZE=-1]The Sarada Act of 1925 which raised the age of marriage to 15. They also objected to property rights for women and Widow remarriage. My father and his brothers worked for and [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]conducted [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Widow remarriages and vigorously objected (by staging a Play and putting up posters) to the second marriage of a Brahmin when the first wife was alive. The community refused marriage alliance. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]It is another matter that[/SIZE][SIZE=-1] we got very good brides from highly educated Brahmins.

5. The community objected to the [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]way [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Goddesses were depicted in Ravi Varma paintings.

4. When I was young (not long back) my village elders complained to my father about my having a Moustache.

I can go on. Please do understand that our community has progressed because we accepted changes. You have to change to keep with the times.

You do not cease to be a Brahmin if you attend a Thanksgiving Dinner or Id feast in friends houses and partake meat.

A small aside: [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]My favorite rant. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]I wonder how we portray our Gods as clean shaven. Shiva who is Jadadhari and Smanavasi is clean shaven. Rama who was Ksahtriya and Krishna ( I love Parthasarathy with his twirling Moustache) are again clean shaven. In the Mahabharata serial only Krishna is clean shaven. Nuts.
[/SIZE]
 
Nacchinarkiniyan said:
You just do not do anything because your fore fathers did that. Ask for references. Read the Dharmasasthras and you may be surprised or shocked. And you will realise how much reformation has been carried out in Hinduism throughout generations. It is an ongoing process.

I remember a conversation with one of my friends who is a top scientist in BARC. I asked him why he does not pray to one of the popular Gods. He replied that he does not because his forefathers have laid down that custom and there must be some reason. The God was his wife's favourite deity.

I have given the above example only to show that many of our intellectuals become blind followers in the case of religion. It is a pity.

I am a vegetarian by choice. I have eaten non-vegetarian food.

You can call me Brahma-Chandala. Do not be surprised. In history there are some dynasties like Pallavas and Senas of Bengal who called themselves Brahma-Kshttriyas. Brahmin by birth and Kshttriya by profession. If I delve into history I am sure I can locate some Brahma-Vaisyas also. Since I was an engineeer by profession, I may be called Brahma-Chandala. I love that.

No hard feeling guys.

Having said that Hindus are great people in that they have not resorted to eating dogs, frogs, etc. etc. even when there were famines.

Stopping animal sacrifices will not make the rest of the world Vegetarian. The number of animals sacrificed in slaughter houses is far far greater than in places of worship. In Hindu temples the number may run to maximum 5000 in a year in the whole of India.
Click to expand...

Are you justifying your meat-eating practice ?? You are really a chandala.
 
God ate meat

rxrajamo said:
Vijisesh

My responses in brown.



If eating meat is a sin, then most of our sages and even some gods will be sinners. Evolution as we know tells us that at least the early man did eat meat and then as per your statement we are all descendants of those sinners.

IMHO, eating meat or vegetables is one's personal choice and no one can judge someone else based on that.

Ramki

When you become GOD you can also eat meat. But the fact is you will never become GOD.
Click to expand...
 
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