People have been lamenting (rightly so) that our boys are not getting alliances from our community. We have all formed our own opinions but I am afraid we have not elicited the boys and girls opinions to find out whether any remedial actions could be initiated to save the community. It will be desirable if the forum can give them space to air their opinion and workout modalities with a provision for questions and answers.
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Opinion of Tabra Boys and Girls on Marriage:
- Thread starter Iyyarooraan
- Start date
- Status
sangom
0
very sad iyar. we are both disappointed that tabra boys girls do not wish to discuss this with usso sad.
Dear Shri Kunjuppu,
The very fact that youth have not found it necessary or useful to discuss the question of marriage here in this forum itself speaks volumes, IMO. Tabra girls are generally aware, by now, about the scarcity of girls while the Tabra boys know it is difficult to get a girl from the community, especially if they are choosy. Hence the "marriage equations" have undergone a sea change during the last few years and we are seeing a new social set up emerging.
CLN
0
That and the very name of the Forum too!
It seems to me that the word "brahmins" has strong association with "rituals, manthras, orthodoxy, dharmashastram, tradional practices etc." which, to admit honestly, are NOT exactly exciting / fascinating enough to the present day youth, which include Tabra boys and girls too!
sangom
0
That and the very name of the Forum too!
I agree, CLN. An additional point I have observed is that even old women (who are nearing their shashtipoorthy) and who have been very orthodox and all that, suddenly give away many of those old notions once their "kattarpanthi" (as the orthodox are termed in the north) husbands are called up to the other world. The dils who had formed certain opinions about the in-laws suddenly find, to their dismay, that their mils were only under compulsion to follow their husbands' wishes. This opens up an entirely new facet of our tambram society. It also shows, IMO, that women by nature, do not vibe with all our so-called Dharmasastra prescriptions. Are Tabra men so more brain-washed by religion, or are our women brain-washed by materialistic (which is now equated with westernization) lure, I wonder?
OP
OP
Oh, it is both sad and bad. Any idea that it could be their negative notions? Are we such a formidable lot? I thought they belonged to our community, but, maybe, they think they are Indians! God be with them and with us,too.very sad iyar. we are both disappointed that tabra boys girls do not wish to discuss this with us
OP
OP
Sangam Sir, thank you for opening my eyes. I never thought or felt that we men were the puppeteers. Thank you for correcting me.
There were a couple of Tamil Brahmin ladies who has married outside our community did participate here and tried to present their stories. If I remember right, their views were not well received. So why would one put oneself through that?
We raise our children to be independent thinkers, giving them the best modern education one can afford to give. Yet, when it come to marriage we are still expecting them to follow the traditional route. While we are putting our heads buried in the sand, all sorts of things are happening, both in college and the work place.
I think the first thing we should do is to organize clubs in various cities where from a young age, we let our boys and girls meet each other in supervised social setting and cultivate and encourage that actively.
This in my opinion will resolve some of the scarcity issue, a la the Jewish community in the US of A.
Regards,
KRS
We raise our children to be independent thinkers, giving them the best modern education one can afford to give. Yet, when it come to marriage we are still expecting them to follow the traditional route. While we are putting our heads buried in the sand, all sorts of things are happening, both in college and the work place.
I think the first thing we should do is to organize clubs in various cities where from a young age, we let our boys and girls meet each other in supervised social setting and cultivate and encourage that actively.
This in my opinion will resolve some of the scarcity issue, a la the Jewish community in the US of A.
Regards,
KRS
Sri.KRS Sir said -
One may think, from all my talk here, my children would be enjoying their time with me.....wrong. Even last week I had a huge fight with my daughter, apologised to her about my behaviour after 2 days.
The generation gap is huge when our children are teen-agers. Our children, during that time, either start an all-out war on us to avenge all the 'perceived restrictions' we placed on them while they were younger. It is very interesting to hear from them, their reasons for their anger!
It is absolutely natural for youngsters to be inquestive about opposite sex while they transfer to adulthood. We make them annoyed by placing restrictions.
In reality, most of the 'love marriages' would not have taken place, if we did not force our children's hands. They would have just basqued in the feeling of 'being in love' for a few months and go into 'I was dumped' mode for a few months and would have started the cycle all over again.
We don't let them. We don't let our children express their sex and sexuality properly. Everything has to be very serious for us, the parents. We (the parents) have to maintain our ego inthe society through our children. All our children know that. It does not matter they grow up in a town in India or in USA, or any country for that matter, the story is the same. It is no wonder, most youngsters don't want to touch a 'tamil brahmin' or a 'tamil brahmin forum' even with a 10 feet pole.
(The above informations are gathered from my children. One boy and one girl, two different specimens of human beings. But their dissatisfaction with me as a parent is just the same).
We have to change our views; our approach.
There is a basic rule in all circumstances - If we are not happy about a situation, we should change our approach; we should not try to change others. That seldom works. By all means, we should voice our opinions, we should put forward our desires; but, we should be ready to learn a thing or two from others, in this case, from our children.
Cheers!
Sri.KRS Sir, Greetings. Above quoted message is bull's eye! Yes, some of the brahmin girls married outside the caste went through miserable treatments. Although not all of them, but still there are members who had to go through very difficult situations. Thanks for high-lighting that. As a community, we have to still come a very long way to accept the youngsters as they are.
One may think, from all my talk here, my children would be enjoying their time with me.....wrong. Even last week I had a huge fight with my daughter, apologised to her about my behaviour after 2 days.
The generation gap is huge when our children are teen-agers. Our children, during that time, either start an all-out war on us to avenge all the 'perceived restrictions' we placed on them while they were younger. It is very interesting to hear from them, their reasons for their anger!
It is absolutely natural for youngsters to be inquestive about opposite sex while they transfer to adulthood. We make them annoyed by placing restrictions.
In reality, most of the 'love marriages' would not have taken place, if we did not force our children's hands. They would have just basqued in the feeling of 'being in love' for a few months and go into 'I was dumped' mode for a few months and would have started the cycle all over again.
We don't let them. We don't let our children express their sex and sexuality properly. Everything has to be very serious for us, the parents. We (the parents) have to maintain our ego inthe society through our children. All our children know that. It does not matter they grow up in a town in India or in USA, or any country for that matter, the story is the same. It is no wonder, most youngsters don't want to touch a 'tamil brahmin' or a 'tamil brahmin forum' even with a 10 feet pole.
(The above informations are gathered from my children. One boy and one girl, two different specimens of human beings. But their dissatisfaction with me as a parent is just the same).
We have to change our views; our approach.
There is a basic rule in all circumstances - If we are not happy about a situation, we should change our approach; we should not try to change others. That seldom works. By all means, we should voice our opinions, we should put forward our desires; but, we should be ready to learn a thing or two from others, in this case, from our children.
Cheers!
Last edited:
Sri.Iyyarooraan Sir,
Greetings. With due respect to your opinions, There are plenty alliances for the right boy/right girl. The communication has increased; Girls and boys have thousands of profile to chosse from. In the olden days, after about 5 or six alliances, it would be hard to get an alliance. If one gets choosy & goes through double digit proposals, we considered that as waste of time.
The trouble today is, since we have somany proposals to choose from, the bar is set rather high for the girls and the boys. It is a savanah out there; only the very fittest and the most commited would survive. I know it; my son is 28 yrs old. He is in no hurry at all. (In his opinion, life starts only after 35..why are you getting impatient now?)....
This competition is a very good sign. Still, in my opinion, it can be utilised to the maximum by the community only when the community gives the freedom to the youngsters.
Cheers!
sangom
0
Shri Raghy in his post # says,
"It is no wonder, most youngsters don't want to touch a 'tamil brahmin' or a 'tamil brahmin forum' even with a 10 feet pole."
This reflects the reality today to a very large extent.
I find many old Tabras ('with one foot in the grave' as the saying goes) making some hectic, last minute, attempts to pick up on sandhyavandanam, learning some mantras, doing Tarpanams, etc., in fits and starts, but think that they more than adequately make up for whatever lapses have occurred, through two main strategies:
1. They make it a point to appear as "Brahman-like" as possible with prominent, extra-broad vibhuti lines all over the body in almost every conceivable place while going to temple. (This now reminds me of election posters, what with the state elections drawing near!)
2. Like the political party followers, they become jingoistic when it comes to any talk regarding 'sanatana dharma' and its many attributes. Most probably they consider that such outward show of allegiance to the religion will make up for all their past non-observances of the "Brahman way of life".
The relatively more successful of these "nouveau Brahmane" rush to form some group under their leadership in one name or another — Thiruppugazh, Narayaneeyam, Bhagavatam, Bhajan, etc.
The younger generation is, according to my observation, divided into two classes. In small towns like TVPM there is a good amount of allegiance to the "hindutva" ideology and so a good number of Tabra boys are very active in the religious sphere, but there is another group which reaches the "escape velocity", so to say, gets a good IT opening in some metro like BGL or Mumbai and then gets to visit US or some other western country and then their religious fervour gets dampened. There is a third, but very minuscule, group of youngsters from 'avante garde' Tabra households who perhaps know, right from their teens, how the world is changing; they are the least religious and are interested in career and material progress only.
The youngsters who have settled down permanently abroad, reveal a lot of interest in talking about 'our culture, our Brahman heritage', etc., when they are here but I doubt whether the same interest sustains once they reach back their foreign locations.
I do not have much information regarding Tabra girls; but reliable second-hand info. reveals that they are mostly oriented towards the "good life" concept as depicted in Hindi movies specially and their religiosity is not of any high level.
The fact that we do not have any worthwhile participation in this forum from youngsters of any of the above categories, only goes to prove that these discussions are of no use to any of them.
"It is no wonder, most youngsters don't want to touch a 'tamil brahmin' or a 'tamil brahmin forum' even with a 10 feet pole."
This reflects the reality today to a very large extent.
I find many old Tabras ('with one foot in the grave' as the saying goes) making some hectic, last minute, attempts to pick up on sandhyavandanam, learning some mantras, doing Tarpanams, etc., in fits and starts, but think that they more than adequately make up for whatever lapses have occurred, through two main strategies:
1. They make it a point to appear as "Brahman-like" as possible with prominent, extra-broad vibhuti lines all over the body in almost every conceivable place while going to temple. (This now reminds me of election posters, what with the state elections drawing near!)
2. Like the political party followers, they become jingoistic when it comes to any talk regarding 'sanatana dharma' and its many attributes. Most probably they consider that such outward show of allegiance to the religion will make up for all their past non-observances of the "Brahman way of life".
The relatively more successful of these "nouveau Brahmane" rush to form some group under their leadership in one name or another — Thiruppugazh, Narayaneeyam, Bhagavatam, Bhajan, etc.
The younger generation is, according to my observation, divided into two classes. In small towns like TVPM there is a good amount of allegiance to the "hindutva" ideology and so a good number of Tabra boys are very active in the religious sphere, but there is another group which reaches the "escape velocity", so to say, gets a good IT opening in some metro like BGL or Mumbai and then gets to visit US or some other western country and then their religious fervour gets dampened. There is a third, but very minuscule, group of youngsters from 'avante garde' Tabra households who perhaps know, right from their teens, how the world is changing; they are the least religious and are interested in career and material progress only.
The youngsters who have settled down permanently abroad, reveal a lot of interest in talking about 'our culture, our Brahman heritage', etc., when they are here but I doubt whether the same interest sustains once they reach back their foreign locations.
I do not have much information regarding Tabra girls; but reliable second-hand info. reveals that they are mostly oriented towards the "good life" concept as depicted in Hindi movies specially and their religiosity is not of any high level.
The fact that we do not have any worthwhile participation in this forum from youngsters of any of the above categories, only goes to prove that these discussions are of no use to any of them.
Last edited:
sravna
Well-known member
The present western society well reflects what the state of affairs of India and other countries that are getting westernized, will be in the future. I frankly think the western countries are beset by a number of problems in spite of their significant advances in the standard of living. The problems they most acutely face are at the psychological level and this manifests in a number of ways, the most critical of them being the mindset of the young people.
People need to be given the independence but they also need to know how to co-operate and get along with others. How people who can't sustain a marriage relationship, going to successfully lead big corporations or run their country where handling relationships is very important?
The fact that the young indians are taking the west as a model should be very concerning indeed. The west is good in certain aspects and need to be taken as a model but to blindly copy them in everything I think will only get the indian society into trouble.
People need to be given the independence but they also need to know how to co-operate and get along with others. How people who can't sustain a marriage relationship, going to successfully lead big corporations or run their country where handling relationships is very important?
The fact that the young indians are taking the west as a model should be very concerning indeed. The west is good in certain aspects and need to be taken as a model but to blindly copy them in everything I think will only get the indian society into trouble.
OP
OP
Shri KRSji, the mod boys and girls are already in clubs and other outfits enjoying their liberties!
OP
OP
Thank you all the participants. All the writers have a good catch of the situation and none including me has any remedy. I hope most of you will agree that our great grand father was not happy with our grandfather's growing up style; nor our grandfather with our father's; nor our father with our own shaping up. But I would emphatically say we have been happy with our boys/girls growing up, but alas, we failed to see the drift of the continent. We were intent on giving them enough freedom in all spheres, education, dressinup, socialising, etc. without ever feeling with a pinch of salt that we did not have those. The taste of freedom is sweeter when restricted. The fear is these kids might prematurely feel that life is sour. Would it not be sad for the kids. I have seen many girls explaining their personality - the love for touring places, participate in adventure sports, love eating world cuisines. It is a feminine craze for worldly things (Shri Sangomji hit the nail's head with a hammer) and perhaps every thing opposite tradition, philosophy, custom and community is what the girl/woman want to espouse, like her neighbour does. I am afraid this period will make a full circle and at the end a new cycle will start with the same old woes for all. Pray God, lead us in proper way, if you can and do not convert this Forum into ******* undertakers.
OP
OP
The females want to be equal to males every where. They are achieving that. What after becoming equal to men? Why many girls want their would be partner to earn more than them; to be never equal? I personally feel life is a total experience where childhood is different, youthhood, manhood/womanhood, parenthood, education is different, wealth or comfort or not-wanted-hood is different and only knowledge could be one. Believe me, the modern life looks so fragile, we will see only the opposite of what the present day children aspire to be. God, give them the vision so that they do not suffer. And we thank you in advance, for not making us blameworthy.
N
nachi naga
Guest
even though i consider myself on the half-way mark ie 50,as the standard of living the highest one can get is 100,owing to my deha-guru who lived 100 years a la walking talking mobile deivam....the generation gap is real.youngsters dont really care about marriage,even m generation,i feel now.just divorce-period.if things dont work out.i mean elders used to patch up things,and marriage is a virtually an institution(mental,lol).anyways,i wish younger generation the best of luck,as only two species exist,ie man & woman,roles can change as life goes by,no stereo typed roles for either gender.women compete with men in all roles,so men need to compete in all women roles,except men-plz dont become pregnant.somethings in nature are just the way they are....
CLN
0
This is some thing unique about female psychology! They certainly resent male domination in many matters. But who says they want equality? It is NOT what they really want! Women know only too well what power they hold on men. In that respect, they do feel their definite superiority over men. The thrill in enjoying the benefits from his earnings is much greater for her, than that she might experience in spending from her own earnings. That is the secret!
I hope no one will mistake me to be an MCP, because I have not written this with any frustration or resentment; I have only stated it, as the real binding factor that is at the base of the mystery and magic of the male-female co-existence! I honestly believe women readers will really understand and appreciate the truth in what I have said.
OP
OP
Years before there was a chatting 'mandram" in England where men were asked whether they would undergo the sufferings of pregnancy? The retort was, "yes, we will if you are willing to exchange our daily shaving exercise". Much water has flown down the Thames. Ladies are also doing the shavings down the waist, legs,etc. Male pregnancy also can be engineered. Poor ladies are losing all their grounds and their exclusivity.even though i consider myself on the half-way mark ie 50,as the standard of living the highest one can get is 100,owing to my deha-guru who lived 100 years a la walking talking mobile deivam....the generation gap is real.youngsters dont really care about marriage,even m generation,i feel now.just divorce-period.if things dont work out.i mean elders used to patch up things,and marriage is a virtually an institution(mental,lol).anyways,i wish younger generation the best of luck,as only two species exist,ie man & woman,roles can change as life goes by,no stereo typed roles for either gender.women compete with men in all roles,so men need to compete in all women roles,except men-plz dont become pregnant.somethings in nature are just the way they are....
iyya,
i am glad you brought up the topic of 'why the man should earn more?'. to me, in this day and age, is a silly expectation.
ofcourse, i live in toronto, canada and have attended numerous 'white' weddings, this question does not even arise. there are lady doctors married to male taxi drivers. so what?
i think, if this restriction is removed, the girls and boys will find far more candidates as suitable partners (in our shaadi sites).
thank you.
i am glad you brought up the topic of 'why the man should earn more?'. to me, in this day and age, is a silly expectation.
ofcourse, i live in toronto, canada and have attended numerous 'white' weddings, this question does not even arise. there are lady doctors married to male taxi drivers. so what?
i think, if this restriction is removed, the girls and boys will find far more candidates as suitable partners (in our shaadi sites).
thank you.
sangom
0
This is some thing unique about female psychology! They certainly resent male domination in many matters. But who says they want equality? It is NOT what they really want! Women know only too well what power they hold on men. In that respect, they do feel their definite superiority over men. The thrill in enjoying the benefits from his earnings is much greater for her, than that she might experience in spending from her own earnings. That is the secret!
I hope no one will mistake me to be an MCP, because I have not written this with any frustration or resentment; I have only stated it, as the real binding factor that is at the base of the mystery and magic of the male-female co-existence! I honestly believe women readers will really understand and appreciate the truth in what I have said.
Dear Shri CLN,
Genetically the female of the human species is the more preferred by nature, IMO. During fertilization itself (which gets reenacted in a symbolic way in the very act which precedes it) it is the sperm which sheds its tail and gets fused with the ovum. (Does this remind one of the old Tamil movie song, slightly modified, aarambham aavatum pennukkullE, manitan aaDi aDanguvatum pennukkuLLE?). If the combination is with a Y chromosome, only then a male offspring is produced but defective Y chromosome makes the sex falter in ever so many ways.
But when an XX combination is there,—
"Early in female development, cells randomly choose either the maternal or paternal X to be the active X chromosome. The other one then transcribes large amounts of a large RNA (XIST) from a gene in the middle of the chromosome. The other genes are silenced by a coating of this XIST RNA. This choice is permanent, and has certain consequences. It is found that the mechanism is not perfect, about 15% of the genes permanently escape inactivation (with fewer chance for escaping in older genes), meaning that they are expressed at twice the level in females as males.
In the X chromosome, an unusually large number of its genes are coded for proteins important to brain function. According to one analysis, there are 221 known human genetic defects that can cause mental impairment, some 10% of which reside on the X chromosome, even though it carries less than 4% of known human genes. This is reflected in a survey of the US Census (starting from 1890), which shows more boys than girls were mentally disabled. It is because a woman uses only one of her two X chromosomes in each cell, there is always a backup if one of the pair has a defective gene. But men have only one X, so any defective brain genes from that chromosome are invariably expressed.
(Excerpted from Y Chromosome)"
So, women are more favoured by nature; man is a quirk or oddity created just so that the species won't get destroyed. And it is therefore the female of the species which will "call the shots", so to say, even though the male had some glorious moments till a certain period of development of the species itself, due to his comparatively higher fighting power.
Coming to today's reality, the female superiority is getting reflected increasingly in almost every walk of life. And, just as I and some like-minded members were saying about our age-old caste system and the atrocities and inequities suffered by the sudras, dalits, etc., (which are now visiting the Brahmans) may be it is the old MC attitudes and sufferings of generations of women which are now visiting the males of the species. The argument against (again, borrowing from the caste scenario) can only be that the present day male is not to be blamed for the sins of his fore"fathers"; will the women be convinced?
Sangom,
Unlike the caste, the emancipation of the female is easier to accept. Because we have females in our life every day – our mother, sister, wife, daughter.
It is in our interest to ensure that our wife gets a fair deal at the office. When that happens, it is only an extension of that sense of fairness to help her out at home.
Nevertheless, with the emancipation, women have taken on a heavier load than their mothers. In addition to motherhood, housewifery, now the workplace influence also come into play.
I have nothing but admiration for the women of today. Truly they reflect bharathiar’s dreams, and are proving over and over again, that when given a chance, they do the job as good as, or more likely better than their male counterparts. In my 35 year work career, my female bosses anyday were better to deal with than the male ones.
I consider myself to be a liberated male. Always I ask, before asking the wife, ‘is it something that I can do?’. mostly the answer is yes, and I have to confess that I am no worse for doing as much household chores as I possibly can. Still I find, no matter what, the wife ends up doing more work than me at home.
This being the situation with a sympathetic spouse like me, I can only feel sorry in households manned by husbands who are more of a goon, than a human being.
to be fair, the wife complements me, publicly, and i confess, that i sometimes get embarassed, lest i be accused of being 'pussy whipped'
G
ganeshrev
Guest
Amusing to read so many assumptions about today's woman (may be Tabra Woman!) ! Wow!
Regards
Revathi
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Revathi
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