Performing Shraddham for Yourself

[appaiah]

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Dear Sri Vedanti

Namaskarams again. My reply continues.

Even The Archives Of Tanjore Maratas The Kings Of Tanjore It Tells How Kumbakonam Mutt Came Into Exixtence And The Other Legacies Understand Muzhu Pushunikaya Chathikulla Maraka Mudiyathu
Even Archives Of Ramanathapuram Kingdom Throws Lot Of Light Into This And The Autobiography Of One Of The Recent Kings Of Ramanathapuram Or Ramnad Tells About Lot Of Stories With Evidences Of Record Manuplacations.
As A Vedanti My Humble Request Is That Please Shed Egos Apart And Try To Understand Truth Which Is The Basics For Moksha Marga
There Are Only 4 Vedas,4 Maha Vakyas,4 Directions And 4 Mutts

I can say with certainty that the archives of Tanjore Maratas donot contain anything as you wishfully imagine. I am unable to comprehend as to what you mean by "Muzhu Pushunikaya Chathikulla Maraka Mudiyathu" Do you mean to say that it is not possible for you to cover up the Adhishtanam of Sri Bhagavat Pada Adi Shankara or that of Sri Sureshwaracharya or for that matter the Sri Ganapati vigraham and the stone work depicting the tirumeni of Sri Bhagavat Pada Adi Shankara in the Kanchi Matham or the dozen plus stone sculptures in and around Kanchipuram or the epigraphic materials in the various temples. Yes, you cannot cover them up with any amount of Annam - for if you try to do so, Sri Maha Ganapati or Sri Bhagavat Pada Adi Shankara or Sri Sureshwaracharya will bless you for having performed Annabhishekam and we will gladly partake in the devine prasadam.

Sir, I appeal to you to give up your emotions and accept the facts as they are.

Your statement that there are only four Vedas, four Mahavakyas, four directions and four Mathams is hollow. I can also say that there are five elements, five indriyas, five bhootas, five pandavas, five kavyas, five utsava murtis (in Shiva temples) and five Mathams. Will that appeal to you?

And remember there are eight directions or disa and not four. Ashta Dikku Balagargal. Bali is offered in ashta dhikku in temples.

Let us not talk like Karunanithi who listed umpteen "three letter words" when "Anna"durai died. It makes no sense, but is only amusing to hear. That is the only purpose it will serve.

You have stated

Coming Back To Our Point On Atma Pindam - Garuda Puram Which Is Thee Authoritative Text On Life After Death And All Sharda Related Queries Does Not Mention Anything About Atma Pindam
Nor Any Purana Or Upanishads Or Dharma Sastram Does Not Mention Abt Atma Pindam

If only you would have said this at the first post itself and not made the other comments, it would have been better.

Probably that is why it is often said "Less said the better"

I now think that "More said the bitter"

 

[appaiah]

Dear Sri Vedanti

Namaskarams again.

I am studying the impact of Islamic invasion in and around Vellore on a personal choice. While so, I have a query to you.

If Adi Shankara was born in 788 CE as some (not all) of the Shringeri followers claim, then why there is no incident or mention of his tackling the islamists in India? Even Sind had been conquered by Muslims by 8th century. He travelled the entire length and breadth of India. The islamic intrusion/ invasion had begun in 7th Century CE. (that is 630 CE) at least 150 years before his birth as claimed by some (not all) followers of Shringeri. A mosque was in existance in Kodungallur even by as early as 612 CE. The mappillas of Kerala had become Muslims in the seventh century.

Do you buy the theory that Bhagavat Pada Adi Shankara did nothing to tackle the spread of islam in his own region, more so when he cris-crossed that region more than twice in his life time? Far from that. Bhagavat Pada conquered many segments of religious faiths and brought them under one umbrella with his unique philosophy of Advaita. Islam could not have begun its journey in India, before his life time at all. So is it with regard to Christianity. Bhagavat Pada Adi Shankara never allowed even the local religions like Kaabalikam to survive. Would he have allowed Islam that spread by the sword? The divine power of his words would have certainly not allowed it. This itself is sufficent evidence that he was born much before that.

There is a set of people who claim that St Thomas came to India and his mortal remains are in San Thome in Mylapore or in St Thomas Mount in Chennai. Christianity had no route in India before 16th Century. If there had been, our Nayanmars would have addressed them as they did to Jainism and Buddhism.

Indian History has been distorted by European Historians to suit their ill-conceived objectives. I appeal to you with folded hands - Please do not add to the wrong history just because some Kumbakonam followers and Tirunelveli followers of Shringeri order were hurt by the incidents in Kumbakonam and Tirunelveli two centuries ago.

 

[appaiah]

Dear Sri Ravi Sastrigal

Namaskarams. I am happy that a Vaideeka practioner is a member of web-forum.

 

[appaiah]

Dear Sri Vedanti

Namaskarams again.

You had stated thus in your post dated 30th March 2008 (07.17 p.m) in your effort to object the expression of opinion on the subject by H.H.Shankaracharya of Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham, referred to by me earlier.

Hence The Acharyal Of Sringeri Would Be The Only Suitable And Eligible Person To Answer This Question In The Right Way As Per Sanatana Dharma To The Earnest Seeker

You had stated thus in your post dated 31 March 2008 (03.16 p.m.,) after reading my post dated 30th March 2008 (11.07 p.m.,)

Coming Back To Our Point On Atma Pindam - Garuda Puram Which Is Thee Authoritative Text On Life After Death And All Sharda Related Queries Does Not Mention Anything About Atma Pindam
Nor Any Purana Or Upanishads Or Dharma Sastram Does Not Mention Abt Atma Pindam

Interestingly, you have contradicted your own words. Having said that none other than Shringeri Acharya is suitable and eligible person to answer this question, in order to question the Kanchi Acharya, you have chosen to answer the question the very next day. By doing this aren't you disrespecting the authority of Shringeri Acharya, who alone is eligible to answer the question?

Sir, one must never ever show any disrespect to any Acharya, whether one owes allegiance to Him or not. I do not follow some of the Acharyas. But I cannot show the least of the disrespect to them because I am an ordinary mortal and they are Sanyasis and are Mahans. My little knowledge is nothing before the ocean of knowledge that They possess. One Mahan is revered as Avatar of Bhagawan Sri Krishna by his followers. I may not consider him as Avatar. That does not mean that he is not a Mahan. And that does not make him 'not an Avatar', if he is really one. I must admit that I am not yet blessed to understand Bhagawan's leela. Can I say with authority that I can certify that he is not an Avatar. In fact the question that I place before his followers is "how they are qualified to certify Him as Avatar"? One of them told me that they have realised and I have not. I must admit my incapabilities in realsing the leela of Almighty, I do not possess that much knowledge, I am not that much gifted. This is "shedding ego". Please read your post in line with what I have now stated and arrive at conclusions yourself.

For your information, I have paid my obeisance to the Amani Shringeri Acharyas and received Their divine blessings. Please leave your ego and visit the Shankaracharya of Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham and receive Their divine blessings. The Acharyas are above all of us ordinary mortals. They do not carry any ill will towards anyone. They are Karuna murtis. Please do not ever question Them or Their actions. Their birth is a gift to mankind and humanity, let us cherish the gift of Almighty, in this birth itself. Let us give meaning to our own birth at least receiving Their blessings.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Appiah Ji,

I read with interest what you have written here, replying to Sri Vedanti Ji's assertions. I come from an advaithin tradition and so this conversation (I hope Sri Vedantin Ji continues this) is quite illuminating.

Both the Sringeri and the Kanchi Acharyals have visited our household in Trichy when I was young (I think this was common among our community then, where we accepted both Sri Mathams as the places that we venerated and we definitely looked up at both of them as our family Gurus). I distinctly had the impression then somehow that the Sringeri Matham was rich and the Kanchi Matham was poor, just judging from the garbs that the Acharyals wore.

I am saying all this to state a point. And I am making this point only as an outside observer - because I do not know the intricacies of Purva Mimamsa, nor do I want to learn the specifics in detail.

Irrespective of History, we come from a land where it was not properly recorded, and in my opinion, we are perhaps trying to prove something from the past that probably is not provable.

But what is provable is what is happening today. Millions think that Kanchi Kamakoti Peetam is one of the five original seats. By denying this from history, what will it prove? Will that somehow diminish the divinity of Maha Periaval or His lineage? Will it increase the 'power' of the Sri Sringeri Matham? What is lost in all these needless arguments are the millions of devotees who follow either or both traditions who are supposed to benefit from the teachings of one of the greatest avatars ever.

I am sure our TB brethren who have the similar schism in terms of Vadagalai and Thengalai in their traditions face the similar issue (I am sorry if I am mis-stating this).

So are other religions.

In my humble opinion, what matters most is to follow the teachings of our Gurus that speak to the Truth that we perceive within our senses and honor the Truths of others who may follow others, based on their inclinations. Of course this statement has it's usual caveats, but I am talking about the Gurus and Saints who have a large following in the world.

Pranams,
KRS

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I was away collecting material for my dissertation on the some Siddhas/Avadhutas. I had visited some of the holy places. We have to accept that there are different traditions. For example some of the Sannyasis are given a jala samadhi whereas many of the sannyasis of the dasa nami sects are given a burial. Then I found that some of the sannyasis are even given a cremation.

In Hinduism we have
1. Strutis
2. Smiritis
3. Samparadhaya.

Many of our present day practices depend more on Sampradhaya than on Shuriti or Smiriti. When we ask an Acharya a question, his answers would be according to his Sampradhaya. Since the questioner ( in the early days) went directly to the Acharya and believed in the same sampradhaya as the Acharya, the answers were correct from his point of view.

The problem has come about now when we try to apply the views of an Acharya of a particular sampradhaya universally.

My friend MM posted that Vanaprastha Ashrama is banned in kali Yuga. But in our Sampradhaya as well as many others Vanaprastha Ashrama exists and is recommended after the age of 50.

If you believe in the Sampradhaya of Kanchi Kamakoti Peetam then Kanchi Acharya's views are paramount. But if you belong to the Shringeri Math, then The Shringeri Acharya's views are paramount.

If you belong to a sampradhaya which has a Guru lineage ( there are thousands of such Sampradhayas all over India) then your actions would depend on Your own Guru sampradhaya.

All of you would have seen the Naga Sadhus coming out during the Kumbha Mela. We have the Kanphata Yogis and many such sects. For those who believe in such a Sampradhaya the answers of both Kanchi and Shringeri Acharyas would be Greek and Latin. Oh! Yes! there are Tamil Brahmins following many such sects.

Many discussions in this forum have become acrimonious because the posters emphasize a particular sampradhaya.

I have had discussions with many Sasthirigals about procedures for many ceremonies. I had the Marriage mantras printed in my son's wedding invitation. I always discuss the procedure for any ceremony conducted in my house before hand with the sasthirigals. These discussion have made me understand Hinduism better. As an academic I used to quote the Shuritis and Smiritis. It took me some time to understand that our procedures are based on Sampradhaya or tradition which is in many case are unwritten.

A simple procedure which I can quote. For Ganapathy Homam the Deeparadhanai (the concluding ceremony) should be conducted exactly at dawn. We consult the Panchang to find out the sunrise time. But some of the Sasthirigals do not conform to this rule.

So the answer to this question lies in what you believe to be your own Sampradhaya. The sampradhya of the Sasthirigals of Gaya allows Performing Shraddham for Yourself.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

It makes me sad to see the discussion about the age of Adi Sankara and the mathams. There was a fierce controversy about this which lasted for a long time. I think between 1866 and 1916. Then on, it has been raked up once in a while. There was a lot of mud slinging during the controversy. It makes one sad when one reads the remarks made by some scholars. All from our community of course.

Anyone who would like to know about this controversial issue, can read it in the introduction to Sankara Digvijaya published by Ramakrishna Math, Madras.

BTW Paul Brenton had referred to Paramacharya as Kumbakonam Swamigal in his book Search in Secret India. My grand mother used to refer to him in the same way ( born during the late 1890s). Paul Brenton refers to some of his specific experiences with him. He is considered a great spiritual soul. The earlier Shringeri Swamigal is also held in great esteem by many people across India. Maa Anandamoyi considered him to be her Guru.

I hold both of them in great respect. Let us not indulge in these controversial questions, which can never be settled to the satisfaction of all.

Thank you.

 

[malgova.mango]

We have many sampradhayas like....

Kurutu , murrattu, thiruttu, varrattu (gowravam), veembu, vambu.... sampradhayams

I'm least bothered about all.

There are also very good,sensitive humanely sampradhayams.

Like they say "PALLODU KALLUM UNDU - NIRATHALE RENDUM ONRU"

"Thallarathe thalli , kollarathai kolluvom" ("Kolluvathu" meaning to take )

 

[malgova.mango]

Namaskarams - Shastrigal ANNA!

Can I enquire about vedic qualifications - I want to clarify meaning of few words as in our Nigandu . Do you think you can help me?

Namaskarams
Malgova.mango

 

[KRS]

As usual as expected, brick bats from a twenty percenter, mocking serious discusiions here!

Please, if you can not add, keep quiet. Otherwise, elaborate. We are all getting tired of this!

KRS

We have many sampradhayas like....

Kurutu , murrattu, thiruttu, varrattu (gowravam), veembu, vambu.... sampradhayams

I'm least bothered about all.

There are also very good,sensitive humanely sampradhayams.

Like they say "PALLODU KALLUM UNDU - NIRATHALE RENDUM ONRU"

"Thallarathe thalli , kollarathai kolluvom" ("Kolluvathu" meaning to take )

 

[malgova.mango]

Oops ! I forget to add these sampradayams...

Purattu - (twisting traditions)
Urruttu - (spinning traditions)
mirrattu - (threatening traditions)
virattu - (kicking away traditions)

Surrutu sampradayams

These are sampradayas widely practiced in the democratic politicians of indian society, the last one is the end the rest are the means. Having said this , readers should also note these are not only restricted to politicians....

regards
malgova.mango

 

[ravisastrigal]

Nalan

Hari: Om - the prescribed qualification for a brahmin is to succesfully complete the learning of Vedam in which he born(The Family Vedam/Swa Vedam) like Rig, Yajur, Sama Vedam.
If anyone have to be termed as Brahmin-he have to practise Vedam without expecting anything in return except the "Bikshai". (In olden days,We heard from the history the word-"Bhawathi Bikshandhehi)
The first duty and responsibility is to learn and qualify in the Swa(SELF) Vedam fully. Then if as per situation anyone can learn the other Vedam.
For performing any rituals one shall be qualified in "Prayogam" (Usage). Also Upadthyaayam(Holding responsibility to perform rituals for group of families) needs correct understanding of every part of Vedam, otherwise it will put the future generations in unrelievable trouble and problems. This means knowing the usage of every manthram correctly to perform a ritual and after performing a ritual at a place the Upadhyaayar has to perform relief measure for the Sathkunyam he acccepted from the Kartha.
(The relief measure, mentioned here is to relieve himself from karma of the kartha. If that Upadyaayar do not perform or take relief measure-Japam or Thapam, his family and future generations will only have to bear-this is like "Pithur Arjitham. They have no escape route.)

Sarvam Sugunamasthu,

Nalan.

 

[ravisastrigal]

Nalan

Hari: Om - I really appriciate Sriman.Nacchinarkiniyan for the informations he providing and knowledge he posses. I shall request him to group the relavant information and help re-build the knowledge missing. This would help the persons who are unable to get the right guidance.

Sarvam Sugunamasthu,

Nalan.

 

[vedanti]

I reserve my comments and quotes of facts, as i am instructed by the forum on not to continue any discussions on this topic,since there is no point or reason to re establish truth.Time and deeds will tell what is Truth.Please read the book by Varanasi Rajagopala Sarma, which would beyond doubt prove what is what.

 

[appaiah]

Dear Sri Vedanti,

My grand mother used to tell me the following story, in order emphaise the need to keep silence at crucial moments.

At the beach there were a few young boys playing. they noticed a tortoise and caught it. They wanted to kill it, share its meat and take to their respective homes for cooking and eating. They started beating it with sticks and stones. The tortosie, as is its practice, withdrew its head inside its shell and was safe. A Sannyasi who was passing by noticed all these and he knew what the children did not know - that the tortoise would not die unless it is beaten after turning it upside down, and its protection is its shell. He could have kept his mouth shut and gone. Then the tortoise would have survived. But he did not keep quiet. He uttered the words, "Aamaiyai thiruppi pottu adichaal saagum. Naamaen solluvAnae, Narayana, namakkaen antha paavam, Narayana". Hearing this the boys turned the tortoise upside down and in a couple of beatings the tortosie was dead.

At the outset, you could have refrained from making uncharitable comments on Acharyas. Or at least now you could have kept quiet, as I had done soon after seeing Sri Nachinarkinyan's post. Truth is not what "you" perceive. It is eternal. That is all I would say, and nothing more.

With warm regards

Appaiah.

 

[Saab]

Dear Appaiahji,

My grateful thanks to you for your detailed postings under this thread. I envy you for your painstaking efforts at fine details. We in this forum are blessed to have your company.

Congratulations!

Saab