Pity the nation

[Nara]

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Folks,

I fully realize Arundhati Roy is a lightening rod. People have strong opinions about her, in favor or against. I am also sure that majority of active members here think of her as good for nothing publicity hog. Whatever your opinion may be about her, do you agree with the BJP complaint against Roy on the grounds of sedition? Note, if convicted of this charge, she faces life in prison.

Sedition was the favorite weapon colonial British administration used to silence freedom fighters, from Savarkar to MKG. It is also a method most favored by despots wanting to silence their opponents. This, a weapon favored by our erstwhile colonial masters, is the weapon BJP wants to use against Roy to silence her. Whether one agrees with her position or not, allowing this travesty to go forward is a blow to Indian liberal democratic tradition.

If you wish to comment, I request you not to attack Roy, whether or not she is a publicity seeker is immaterial to gauge the validity of her arguments. Please express your opinion only on the positions she has expressed.

BTW, here is an interview of Roy by Amy Goodman of Democracy Now, conducted a few weeks ago, but aired today. Watch the background video images, very telling.

Thanks, Cheers!

 

[kunjuppu]

tough post. tougher position to take. it is the legacy of jawaharlal to india. the mani has gone 46 years but his ghost hovers over the vale, inciting the discontent over the very country he had a love hate relationship.

i can't answer this question of yours nara. i do not know enough facts. it is easy to be a martyr and especially in this case.

the situation of the indian soldier in kashmir, is not much unlike his american counterpart in iraq or afghanistan. he is putting his life on the line for something that he probably does not understand.

till a political solution is found, i think, we are in for a long haul of agony and soul searching.

i would not worry about BJP (natural sympathies here in this forum) or arundhathi. both know how to posture to their advantage. after all with BJP it is politics and dear miss roy, it is posture. both excel at this.

hopefully with the west negotiating with the taliban, peace returns to the afghan valley. peace will automatically also come back to the kashmir valley. all of these are related.

best wishes.

 

[Nara]

....the situation of the indian soldier in kashmir, is not much unlike his american counterpart in iraq or afghanistan. he is putting his life on the line for something that he probably does not understand.

Exactly dear K, this is what Roy was also saying about a Dalit from Cuddalore giving his life in Kashmir valley. For what? For an IT professional, living in Bangalore or Hyderabad, making bi-monthly visits to U.S., developing the latest Android App that will search the web for the latest pronouncement of Kim Kardashean and present it in an easily readable format, in the best ever smart phone with a half life of less than 6 months, to register his/her patriotism by saying Kashmir is an integral part of India for ever.

If Roy is posturing, at least she is posturing on behalf of the least powerful by putting her life on the line. In contrast, the BJP politician who has filed a complaint against her is one, not withstanding the fact he is part of the gang that is so against the British that any evil that one can possibly think of in present day India is a fault of the British, who wants to unabashedly and hypocritically use the same laws that the British used to silence one of their own icon, Savarkar, to silence another, who dares to raise her voice against the power of the establishment. All for what, for gaining a few votes. An equivalency between fear-mongering and hypocritical BJP and Roy who is willing to put her life on the line for what she believes in and for no personal gain, is untenable, IMO.

Cheers!

 

[ganeshrev]

Shri Nara

In one of the group discussions, I advocated the similar idea of letting K go. All the other guys (They are from various parts of India- including those who were seriously affected by partition) pounced upon me

Some accused me of being insensitive to the pains of Partition because I am a southie .
Some asked whether I truly believed that Pakistan would stop at that and they certain will ask to take more land from India

I am not a political and economical analyst , but I can clearly see the hands of arms manufacturer and US wanting to maintain tension in the area for its own reason.

My two cents.

Regards
Revathi

 

[Brahmanyan]

Shri Nara

In one of the group discussions, I advocated the similar idea of letting K go. All the other guys (They are from various parts of India- including those who were seriously affected by partition) pounced upon me

Some accused me of being insensitive to the pains of Partition because I am a southie .
Some asked whether I truly believed that Pakistan would stop at that and they certain will ask to take more land from India

I am not a political and economical analyst , but I can clearly see the hands of arms manufacturer and US wanting to maintain tension in the area for its own reason.

My two cents.

Regards
Revathi

Madam,

Do you honestly believe that the dispute with our illustrious neighbour will end if the Kashmir problem is solved. No, I don't think so. They have converted this into a quasi religious problem for their survival. Pakistan needs the dispute kept alive to herd their flock together, otherwise they may face serious trouble of ethnic separation. It is much more deep rooted problem for true Kashmiris both Muslims and Hindus. Their distinct Kashmiri idendity and culture has been systematically destroyed by infiltrators. Now Urdu has replaced Kashmiri language. I am sceptical on the results of the visit of interlocutors sent by UPA Government. With whom these interlocuters will discuss the Government views? Or whether their report will be binding on anyone in the present state of the Kashmiri politics ?
This is a subject that needs deep study and discussion.

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore

 

[ganeshrev]

No Sir, Like I said I am no analyst. I am an ordinary citizen who is pained by the loss of lives , blood shed and the intangible losses by the ROI in terms of development, progress and alleviation of poverty.

Thanks
Revathi

 

[RVR]

Government of India is not taking any hasty decision to arrest Arundhathi Roy. Union Home Minister P Chidambaram reacted sharply to the statement of BJP spokesperson Arun Jatley that unless we get full tape of her speech and analyse it, no action will be taken against her.

Chidambaram refutes Jaitley?s charge on J&K separatists? meeting - 1 -  National News ? News ? MSN India

Another Congressman's speech refutes Arundhathi Roy's statement in a civilized manner

Cong asks Arundhati Roy to withdraw statement on J-K

Arundathi Roy should also behave in a matured manner and should not misuse the freedom of speech provided to her under the Indian Constitution.

There are also voices within the country supporting Arundathi Roy from a Tamilnadu MP, Thirumavalavan

The Hindu : National : Nothing offensive or seditious in Arundhati's speech: Thirumavalavan

We don't have to worry much about the incident and we have to allow the law to take its own course if Arundhathi Roy has violated her freedom of speech liberty.

Kashmir issue is a longstanding issue which Government of India is trying to solve again through appointing a set of interlocutors. It is a highly complicated issue and let us all wish that some thing good comes out of the new effort.

Each county has its own problems and there is no surprise that a vast country like India with multiple languages, religion and other differences having such problems. As Sri Brahmanyan said our illustrious neighbour doesn't want us to live in peace and is continuously instigating violence in Kashmir and hence the problem is getting further complicated.

We had similar problem in Punjab just few decades back but now it is fully solved. Let us hope Kashmir problem also get solved in the near future

All the best

 

[sangom]

Government of India is not taking any hasty decision to arrest Arundhathi Roy. Union Home Minister P Chidambaram reacted sharply to the statement of BJP spokesperson Arun Jatley that unless we get full tape of her speech and analyse it, no action will be taken against her.

Chidambaram refutes Jaitley?s charge on J&K separatists? meeting - 1 -  National News ? News ? MSN India

Another Congressman's speech refutes Arundhathi Roy's statement in a civilized manner

Cong asks Arundhati Roy to withdraw statement on J-K

Arundathi Roy should also behave in a matured manner and should not misuse the freedom of speech provided to her under the Indian Constitution.

There are also voices within the country supporting Arundathi Roy from a Tamilnadu MP, Thirumavalavan

The Hindu : National : Nothing offensive or seditious in Arundhati's speech: Thirumavalavan

We don't have to worry much about the incident and we have to allow the law to take its own course if Arundhathi Roy has violated her freedom of speech liberty.

Kashmir issue is a longstanding issue which Government of India is trying to solve again through appointing a set of interlocutors. It is a highly complicated issue and let us all wish that some thing good comes out of the new effort.

Each county has its own problems and there is no surprise that a vast country like India with multiple languages, religion and other differences having such problems. As Sri Brahmanyan said our illustrious neighbour doesn't want us to live in peace and is continuously instigating violence in Kashmir and hence the problem is getting further complicated.

We had similar problem in Punjab just few decades back but now it is fully solved. Let us hope Kashmir problem also get solved in the near future

All the best

Dear Shri RVR,

IMO, Punjab and Kashmir stand on different footing. Punjab was an integral part of India. There was no border problem, no disputed territoy problem, there. There was a demand for a separate Khalistan and it was put down. But Kashmir is an extremely complex problem. Now I think it is more China than Pakistan which is interested in keeping the problem alive. And of course the western arms manufacturers who want this festering sore to never heal.

 

[RVR]

Dear Shri RVR,

IMO, Punjab and Kashmir stand on different footing. Punjab was an integral part of India. There was no border problem, no disputed territoy problem, there. There was a demand for a separate Khalistan and it was put down. But Kashmir is an extremely complex problem. Now I think it is more China than Pakistan which is interested in keeping the problem alive. And of course the western arms manufacturers who want this festering sore to never heal.

Sri Sangom Sir,

The movement in Kashmir is externally instigated right from the beginning. When the erstwhile Soviet Russia invaded Afghanistan, most of the Islamic countries as well as Americans supported the Mujahideen movement in Afghanistan.

Mujahideen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To day the Mujahideen movement has grown to several Islamic extremist movements affecting almost the entire world. It has affected USA also through Sep 11,2001 incident. Now Americans wants to defeat this extremists but they are unable to do so.

Our country is in the receiving end during all these times. Even today, USA is funding more than two billion dollars worth arms to Pakistan in the pretext of fighting extremists.But we all know very well that Pakistan will use all these funds only to create further problems in Kashmir.

Obama should ensure US aid to Pak not used against India: BJP - The Economic Times

There is a proverb in Tamil

பிள்ளையையும் கிள்ளிவிட்டு தொட்டிலையும் ஆட்டி விடும் செயல்

USA is doing exactly the above.

All the best

 

[suresoo]

Dear Revathi Ji,

In one of the group discussions, I advocated the similar idea of letting K go. All the other guys (They are from various parts of India- including those who were seriously affected by partition) pounced upon me

Some accused me of being insensitive to the pains of Partition because I am a southie .
Some asked whether I truly believed that Pakistan would stop at that and they certain will ask to take more land from India

I had a Roommate whose grand-parents were victims of Partition. Their pains are for real and they view the issue at a much different level (and with better understanding) than us from south. In someways its similar to North Indians lack of feelings for Sri-lankan tamils.

The primary question is what are the designs of China/Pakistan in continuing the unrest in Kashmir. Somebody like Roy should know the context of this fight better before making insensitive statements for Publicity.

thanks,

 

[hoover]

did anyone watched Faruq Abdullahs speech in Loksabha, I did, He mentioned that unlike other parts of country kashmir have all pucca houses.
Kashmir has become a white elephant for India. How many here know the fact that per head spending of central govt. is largest on kashmiri people.
why jammu and ladakh is satisfied and only vally is in unrest.
did arundahti roy spend a single penny for kashmiri pandits from her royalty and means of incum.
Will govt. tolerate statement from a sikh writer. afterall they are also a different culture and have sikh nationalism.
let poor people from Bihar, Up, Nepal populate J and K, they will straigten up the conditions. This is the only solution and is successfully practiced by china in Tibet and xinjiang province.
Kashmir is not last issue here. such more arundhati roys may errupt from nowhere for assam, parts of west bengal, parts of up, punjab, north east, parts of kerala and so on.
Law must take its course whether it is a celebrity or commen man.
If there is no action against arundhati, why action against kashmiri seperatists only, afterall they are the natives of that region and atlest have some right to demand, not arundhati an aliern trublemaker. these are the people who want to air the riots, which govt controlled with much effort and negotiations. These intellectuals will sell country and award nobel prize to hitler if there is some publicity and money in that.
how much energy arundhati spent for kashmiri pandits, minority hindu and sikh in pakistan, riot victim sikh of anti sikh riots of eighty four.
Let the statesmen do the work and not roadside elites who are just trouble increasing people. they have no responsibility of the conseqences. their luxurious lifestyle,plane journies and fivestar residences are not going to get any cut.

 

[Nara]

Dear Smt. Revathi, Greetings!

....In one of the group discussions, I advocated the similar idea of letting K go. All the other guys (They are from various parts of India- including those who were seriously affected by partition) pounced upon me

The bloodshed during partition occurred mostly in Punjab. Kashmiris were not involved in this violence at all. So, an argument that Kashmir is an integral part of India because of the bloodshed and suffering by Hindus during partition has no merit at all. If this argument has any merit, then the same merit can be claimed by the Muslims of Pakistan also, as they also suffered bloodshed during that time.

The argument that Pakistan wouldn't stop with Kashmir is also not valid, because, it presupposes that Kashmir has to belong to India or Pakistan. More enlightened leadership from the Indian side could have engineered a solution that kept both India and Pakistan out of Kashmir. Instead, the Indian politicians allowed this area to remain troubled waters in which vested interests that includes India, Pakistan, China, and USA, could fish in them. Now, the entire region is so radicalized a solution seems near impossible.

But, IMO, it is not too late even now. It is in the long term interest of India to settle this issue is a way that guarantees peace and prosperity for Kashmiris free of meddling by India or Pakistan. Only India can make it happen, or not make it happen. India will never be accorded the "superpower" recognition that many middle-class Indians crave, without settling the Kashmir issue.

Now, about freedom of speech, some have suggested that Arundhati Roy should not abuse freedom of speech. If you watch Ami Goodman's interview of her, you would see that Roy is also pushing for an independent Kashmir, free from Indian or Pakistani domination. This is a political POV and if somebody thinks that expressing such opinions is abuse of freedom of speech, then he/she has no idea what freedom of speech is. Outside of speech that directly incites violence or directly causes panic and pandemonium -- like shouting fire in a crowded theater -- there is nothing called abusing the freedom of speech. To think of political speech as abuse of freedom of speech only shows how poor the understanding is of this basic and important of all freedoms that is so essential for any nation to function as a liberal democracy.

I am not a political and economical analyst , but I can clearly see the hands of arms manufacturer and US wanting to maintain tension in the area for its own reason.

Probably, but Indian politicians and the middle class of India can take away all the incentives by being a little less jingoistic, and a little more far-sighted, IMO.

Cheers!

 

[KRS]

Dear Professor Nara Ji,

I wish Sowbhagyavathi Roy Ji would write another novel as her widely acclaimed (justifiably so) first one. Her creating fiction on the Kashmiri plight, as well intended as it is, twists the facts and creates a new nation, where one does not exist.

When I was in India about a decade ago, I met a man and we were discussing the issues facing India and the Kashmir issue came up. I said off-handedly that perhaps Kashmir can be given up by India, instead of pouring so many resources to keep that state. Till today I can see the simultaneous feelings of sadness, anger and firmness flash across his face. He said, "why then tell me if this can be done today, it could not have been done before?". He has lost a few of his close relatives from the independence days in the conflict. Similarly, on a flight back to the USA, I sat next to a displaced Kashmiri Pandit, who was narrating the issue from his view point.

And this issue is current - it is not a theoretical one going back 100 or 1000 years. Justice is being demanded on history, yet we do not stop one moment to think of the current day sacrifices made by real folks - to Roy Ji, these do not matter - they are all theoretical.

She is deliberately trying to involve the international community where this is an internal matter for India and ALL her people. Yes, India has made mistakes, but I do not think that there is any mass support in India to let Kashmir go. Does she think that if India let her part go, Pakistan will do so likewise? Hers is a very idealistic, naive and childish comment.

As for sedition, let the courts and the law of the land decide. Seems to me, she is giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

Regards,
KRS

 

[tbs]

hi all,
just for information.....i really dont want get into this discussion....becoz i was in kashmir for three years in indian army....even i took

part in kargil war....i saw the reality in srinagar/jammu/leh/kuppuwara/sopore/ and very close to pak border in kashmir .....we can

talk and discuss anything ....but the ground realities are very different,....sitting in delhi/usa/or anywhere and talk abt kashmir...

just like explaining abt an elephant by 5 blind ppl....its very sad situation in ground reality.....its burning issue very difficult to control....

we may loose many young soldiers in this dirtiest proxy war....

my 2 cents

regards
tbs

 

[sangom]

hi all,
just for information.....i really dont want get into this discussion....becoz i was in kashmir for three years in indian army....even i took

part in kargil war....i saw the reality in srinagar/jammu/leh/kuppuwara/sopore/ and very close to pak border in kashmir .....we can

talk and discuss anything ....but the ground realities are very different,....sitting in delhi/usa/or anywhere and talk abt kashmir...

just like explaining abt an elephant by 5 blind ppl....its very sad situation in ground reality.....its burning issue very difficult to control....

we may loose many young soldiers in this dirtiest proxy war....

my 2 cents

regards
tbs

Shri tbs,

Since you know the matter very well I would request your reply. Perhaps at some point of time there was this suggestion to make Kashmir into an autonomous region to be administered by UN or something of that sort. At that time it was felt that it was a brainchild of US to get control over a piece of extremely strategic land which would enable it to monitor and control the entire Asia (which comprised the then USSR, China and of course India and Pakistan). The news reports then were that the Indian government sensed this and its likely impact on India's future and rightly did not agree. Is this info (from memory) right?

 

[tbs]

shri sangom sir,
yes some part ..its right....but entire region is different parameters..jammu is predominately hindus....ladakh region predominately

buddhists......whatever the reason... we cant go back to UN resolution.....if K go out of control.....even independent state....

india's sovergnity is very difficult.....then delhi will go away......

regards
tbs

 

[aramakrishnan1]

Mr.Nara,

What is the prime reason for which the Kashmiris want to separate the valley from India ? Please present your perception. There may be many reasons, but what is the prime point.

 

[[email protected]]

All : I was also worked the places quoted by sri TBS. We used to say that the Nehru parivar Bharat ko sarva nash karthiya. The Kashmir problum is nited with religion present days. Only a strong Militry action without CONG,BJP,Or local parties interference sure our defence people will salve this issue very quickly. Another reason that smt Gandhi was interfear the east Pak and made Bangaladesh. So Pak was useing all tacktices to give everending headach to india. s.r.k.

 

[tbs]

hi sangom sir,
kashmir solution within 1 month.....with strong military action like iraq/afganisthan.....no political interferences.....dont ask/dont tell

policy......consequences are very bad.....ready to face india?


regards
tbs

 

[[email protected]]

To TBS sir you are correct, s.r.k.

 

[aramakrishnan1]

The organisation of Islamic countries, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan are strongly supporting Kashmir seccession from India and the support is 100% based on religious motives. For a truly secular nation like India, why should the country yield to those communal forces who never want India to remain soveriegn country. The successive Indian governments presented a weak face of India to the world, which has provided strength to these seccessionist forces to try their ideas here. The Uighur problem in China is almost identical to Kashmir problem where separatists want their region to break away from China. China handles such issues with iron hand and never let the world know that such problems do exist. The British helped Pakistan to annexe an Independent nation called "Balochistan" and the Balochis are trying since decades to "free" their nation. Pakistan handles this issue with iron hand and all important Baloch leaders are suddenly disappearing one by one. Pakistan never let the problem escalate and known to the world only by using suppression. Why don't the organisation of Islamic countries and Kingdom of Saudi Arabia try to liberate Balochistan from Pakistan.
Arundhati Roy is a well known Hindu-hater and it is obvious why she choose to join the likes of Gilani.
Mr.Nara - Arundhati Roy also supports the Maoist cause and she perceives any anti-India activity as "Holy" act. She has been consistent in her views against the nation.
India is a democratic country and a Secular nation too. If some elements want to snatch away a portion of the land on communal lines, then I wish every Indian should support the nation and not to side with the countries enemies.
What is the future of Independent Kashmir (if it is acheived). It is going to be another Bangaladesh sending immigrants all over India and they will keep creating trouble. It is Paksitan's policy of "Bleed India by thousand cuts" that will be the first line in the constitution of such an independent Kashmir.

 

[sangom]

hi sangom sir,
kashmir solution within 1 month.....with strong military action like iraq/afganisthan.....no political interferences.....dont ask/dont tell

policy......consequences are very bad.....ready to face india?


regards
tbs

Shri tbs,

Sadly India is now "your obedient servant" of US. So we need not even dream anything of this sort to happen!

 

[RVR]

Shri tbs,

Sadly India is now "your obedient servant" of US. So we need not even dream anything of this sort to happen!

Sri Sangom Sir,

I beg to differ from your assessment. Please read the following news item

India is trying to underplay Obama's visit - Rediff.com News

I think the present visit of American president to India is not creating any hype at ground level and whatever little hype is there, it is only in the media.

America may want India to be its obedient servant, but I don't think India will accept it.

Whatever said, we have to live with China and cannot confront China as per the wishes of the Americans. I think India is pursuing its own foreign policies based on its own self interest and none of the foreign powers can influence us just like that. Earlier we were totally aligned with Soviet Russia and we were treated as anti-American. Now we are having friendly relations with both Russia & America and probably it gives the impression that we are close to America.

America wants us more than India's necessity to associate with America. We didn't participate in the Iraq war and we are following our own policy on Afghanistan. We are always suspicious of USA when it supplies arms to Pakistan.

Even the nuclear liability bill which was enacted by Parliament recently has tough conditions which American companies are finding it difficult to accept.

US presses for changes in India's nuke liability law

I think the opposition in India will not allow the ruling party to tilt in favour of USA completely.

However we have to improve our relationship with USA on a continuous basis since both follow democratic principles.

All the best

 

[aramakrishnan1]

If Kashmiris want their identity to be maintained and if they do not want their identity getting disolved in the idea of India, let them put forward a win-win formula within the framework of India. Why do they deny the Indian constitution which is an acceptable document for a billion people ? If Arundhathi Roy is accepted as an insider by the Separatists, let Ms.Roy apprise these separatists about the greatness of living with India. The so-called Pakistan (The land of Pure) is the center of impurity for the world. Let the Kashmiris see the worst fate of those in POK and conclude that Paksitan is not at all an option for them.

Shri.Nara, there was no need to write against a particular political party if you wanted to support Ms.Arundhathi Roy. Any one who thinks and works for the nation is welcome irrespective of the political party he is affiliated to. After all, the Nation is greater than you, me or any particular party.

 

[aramakrishnan1]

If Roy is posturing, at least she is posturing on behalf of the least powerful by putting her life on the line. In contrast, the BJP politician who has filed a complaint against her is one, not withstanding the fact he is part of the gang that is so against the British that any evil that one can possibly think of in present day India is a fault of the British, who wants to unabashedly and hypocritically use the same laws that the British used to silence one of their own icon, Savarkar, to silence another, who dares to raise her voice against the power of the establishment. All for what, for gaining a few votes. An equivalency between fear-mongering and hypocritical BJP and Roy who is willing to put her life on the line for what she believes in and for no personal gain, is untenable, IMO.

Cheers!

Elections are over already in May'09 and the next one is due only in 2014. Your opinion is wrong that whatever the party (mentioned by you) is doing is for few votes. Whether a party is ruling or opposition or with no MPs, if they work for "Nation building", then votes will automatically be there for them. They don't need to make drama to gain votes or popularity.